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Ep 85 Community Organizer Angela Lang

“Our freedoms are tied together”: Angela Lang, Executive Director of Black Leaders Organizing for Community (BLOC), on why helping a community’s most marginalized citizens creates better outcomes for all, BLOC’s pandemic pivot, and Backstreet Boys. Alright?

Learn more and support Black Leaders Organizing for Community at BlocByBloc.org

Other grassroots regional organizations focusing on GOTV and helping underserved communities thrive:

Advance Carolina – a Black-led organization in North Carolina with a mission to build political and economic power in Black communities and institutions around the state. In 2020, Advance Carolina is working to protect and promote safe voting for African-American and progressive voters.
Detroit Action – Detroit Action is the primary community-driven organization canvassing in Metro Detroit. In 2020, their goal is to have 365,000 voter contact attempts, 60,000 voter contacts, and register 4,000 new voters. They organize in some of the most dangerous and economically depressed neighborhoods in America.
LUCHA (Living United for Change in Arizona) – LUCHA focuses on grassroots campaigns, leadership development, advocacy and civic engagement particularly in communities of color. In 2020 LUCHA’s goal is to work in 8 state legislative districts, registering 30,000 new voters and knocking on 400,000 unique doors in Pinal, Maricopa, and Coconino County.
One Pennsylvania – In 2018, One PA worked to pass one of the most far-reaching labor bills in the US. In 2019, One PA increased turnout in their wards by 6 points for the Alleghany county District Attorney race. In 2020, they will focus on 160,000 neglected voters in Philadelphia, Allegheny and Delaware Counties, with 4-6 interactions per voter. Their goal is to speak to over 200,000 voting age individuals in 2020 in Philadelphia alone.
Take Action Minnesota : In 2018, Take Action Minnesota ran a statewide narrative campaign #GreaterThanFear, which aimed to resist divisive racist politics – 8 of 10 of the candidates they supported were victorious. In 2020, their goal is to have 870,000 conversations to reach up to 235,000 votes, and electing 10-12 Democrats to the Minnesota State Senate.

Milwaukee’s own Sista Strings

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the podcast – check him out here! ***This is a rough transcription of Episode 85 of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast. It originally aired on October 27, 2020. Transcripts are created using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and there may be errors in this transcription, but we hope that it provides helpful insight into the conversation. If you have any questions or need clarification, please email dj@midlifemixtape.com ***

Angela Lang 00:01

If we continue to think of the election as the first and only stop in civic engagement, I don’t think that we’re actually seeing our vote through.

0:09

Welcome to Midlife Mixtape, The Podcast.  I’m Nancy Davis Kho and we’re here to talk about the years between being hip and breaking one.

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

Nancy Davis Kho 00:34

Hey, listeners, it’s Nancy here.  We’re in the homestretch of an extraordinarily important presidential election. So, I just want to take a moment to give a shout out to all of you who have gone above and beyond in this election cycle, to be not just a voter, but a volunteer.

I know that some of you listening may think, “What the heck? This is a show about midlife. It’s not about politics.” And I see that you might say that. I understand that. But I’m reminded of something that my friend, the great writer Janelle Hanchett, said to me once. She said, “I think it’s cute when people think silence isn’t also political.”

So, the fact is, I’ve got this platform, I’m hoping to use it for the good. And I just want to tell you that whether you wrote letters and postcards encouraging people to vote, whether you did phone banking, or text banking, maybe you just helped your kid register to vote for the first time, or you yourself got educated on ballot issues and candidates more deeply than before… I feel inspired by your commitment to sustaining democracy. And if you haven’t had a chance to do those things yet, we still have a week to go.  Check out www.TheLastWeekends.org for actions you can take to encourage voter turnout. It’s better than chewing your fingernails for the last 168 hours before November 3. And I promise not to be silent if you won’t.

MUSIC

Hey, everyone. I’m Nancy and I wanted to welcome you to a very special one-week-before-the-election episode of The Midlife Mixtape Podcast. Now I knew, planning for this week, that I wanted to talk to an inspiring guest who might give us an extra head of steam to make Election Day matter. And if it meant talking to someone who only has to scroll down, like, twice to get to her birth year in online forms, it was still going to be worth breaking the “midlife” part of “Midlife Mixtape” just this once. I don’t know about you, but I feel pretty worn out by the election hammering but after I talk to today’s guest, I was ready to get back into the ring.

My guest today is Angela Lang, Executive Director of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities (BLOC). Angela was born and raised in the heart of Milwaukee where she served as Political Director with For Our Future Wisconsin, where she worked to develop partnerships with local organizations and oversee the local grant process. In addition, she worked for the Service Employees International Union where she was an organizer and State Council Director, coordinating the political endorsement process and organizing Home Care and Nursing Home workers into the Fight For 15 campaign. Her journey in organizing hasn’t always been easy, as oftentimes she is the only woman, young person and person of color in the room expected to speak on behalf of all those communities. She constantly advocates for more seats at the table for those who have been shut out of the political process.

So, let’s step into the election booth with Angela.

Nancy Davis Kho

So, we are here today with Angela Lang, from BLOC, Black Leaders Organizing for Communities. And Angela, it’s such an honor to have you here today. I really appreciate you making the time.

Angela Lang 03:28

Yeah, thanks for having me!

Nancy 03:29

Well, this episode is going to be airing one week before the General Election. So, we’ve got a lot of important things to talk about. This is probably the only case in which I’m going to say my first question is slightly less important than the work you do. That first question is: what was your first concert and what were the circumstances?

Angela 03:46

Yeah, those that know me know that this is no surprise or any secret. But my first concert was the Backstreet Boys when I was ten. My mom got me tickets for my birthday. She gave me two tickets and she said, “you can take whoever you want.” But of course, I had to take her. And this was during the mid-90s, so it was right when they were first getting started.

And I was actually really excited last year – 20 years later, they came to town and so I took one of my best friends and we went to go see them now. That was my gift to myself for my 30th birthday last year. So yeah, I have a poster of them hanging in my office. It was the only thing I had when we moved into our office. It was the only piece of decor that I had, and people always ask about it. So, I never hide my love for the Backstreet Boys.

Nancy 04:37

That is awesome. Now I have to ask you, which Backstreet Boy was your guy?

Angela 04:41

Oh, hands down AJ. Even to this day. The only reason why I’m watching Dancing with the Stars right now… It’s my self-care. It is my one piece of guilty pleasure TV and it doesn’t hurt to have AJ to root for too.

Nancy 04:55

I think about Nick Carter and his center part hairstyle and I’m like, I actually thought that was cute at one point? What?

Angela 05:04

The 90s were a different time.

Nancy 05:08

Now I have to ask you: Comparing that first concert to the 20 years later, did they hold up? Were you disappointed? Or were you like, “my gosh, they were even better than I remembered!”

Angela 05:18

Oh, I lived out my childhood dreams. Like, they didn’t miss a beat. I was actually really impressed with how they were 20 years later; they hit every note. They were great. The choreography was great. Yeah, we were singing along, dancing the whole time. So yes, it was definitely living out my childhood dreams. And yeah, to my surprise, they look like they did 20 years ago.

Nancy 05:40

Good for them. Good for them. Alright, so one last music related question before we flip over to the real stuff. And that is… you are all about Milwaukee, you represent for Milwaukee. Is there a performer in Milwaukee we should know about, a singer or songwriter? Who do you think we should be checking out? I didn’t warn you about that question, I’m just springing that on you.

Angela 06:01

Yeah, there’s a group, there’s a string duo that I think is amazing. There are two black sisters. And they both play string instruments. I believe they both might be the cello. And they’re called Sista Strings. Okay let me actually check…

Nancy 06:20

Because I always put a video into the show notes. So, I will check out Sister Strings is that is the…

Angela 06:25

Sista Strings, yeah, they are great. I’ve heard them at some other events. They’re just very beautiful. And it’s always great to see, you know, black folks that are younger, and folks that look like you that are taking up space in the world of classical music, and how they’re putting their own spin on it, too. So yeah, they’re great and super, super talented.

Nancy 06:45

Alright, cool. Everybody check out Sista Strings, and I’ll put in a video so you can take a little taster plate of them when you listen to this episode.

So, as you heard, Angela is only 30 years old. And even with my very expansive definition of midlife – some people take issue with me sometimes, because I think it goes from 33 to 66. Because I can do math, and I don’t think we’re all going to live to 100. But that’s a story for another time.

Her work is so important, and this general election is so important that I wanted to devote this episode to motivating you guys to not just vote but to get out and help your community be heard too. And I can’t think of a better way to do that then by talking about this grassroots organization that is mobilizing voters in Milwaukee.

So Angela, I’m just gonna have you start off by talking about BLOC, Black Leaders Organizing for Communities, why you decided to start it up, and what work does it do in your community?

Angela 07:34

Yeah, so in a lot of ways, BLOC was founded as a response to the 2016 election. On one hand, the outcome…I think a lot of folks were surprised from the outcome.

But on the other hand, we were also really, really offended by the fact that people were blaming us for the outcome. Everyone always wanted to talk about how black voter turnout was down. But turnout was down all across the state, turnout was down all across the country, and in different places in different parts. But people really only wanted to singlehandedly focus on us, which was very frustrating to a lot of us knowing that we are some of the most disenfranchised and least engaged communities, but yet we were somehow to blame for the outcome of the election.

So, a bunch of us got in a room. And you know, we started to really brainstorm and strategize and figure out, you know, what are the lessons learned from 2016? How do we build something that is bold, and is rooted in our blackness and very able to be authentic and genuine and relate to folks? You know, how can we do this on a year-round basis, and we wanted to make sure that we weren’t waiting for a candidate or an elected official or party to engage us. We were going to do this work ourselves on a year-round basis, we were going to hire folks from the community, train our folks around the civic engagement process, how to even be involved politically, how the process even works, and who are these different actors and players in our political system? And then how do we make a change in it? We wanted to make sure that we were reclaiming that power. And we’re doing some of the things that I think was lacking, quite frankly, in 2016.

Nancy 09:10

The driving question for your group is “What does it look like for Milwaukee’s Black community to thrive?” Right? That’s the underlying question. What does that look like in practice? What are the things that you guys are able to do to help the black community thrive in your city?

Angela 09:27

Yeah, you know, I always like the question of asking folks that “thrive” question because it affords our community an opportunity to think about what thriving is and I think that’s not something we get a chance to do on a regular basis.

So, when we ask that question, we’ve heard everything from speed bumps and potholes, to healthcare and criminal justice and education. We’ve heard it all and on the one hand, you know, it’s an entryway to be able to figure out what are these bigger issues that we should be advocating for. We heard it all…it begins small. We now have a black agenda that we created almost a year ago now, where we got folks from the community together, we talked about 10 different issue areas, everything from education, to health care, to transportation and democracy and justice. And we had conversations about each of those issue areas. What do we want? What do you want to see? What do we want to see improved? What do we need to get rid of, what’s just not working in the system? And we brainstormed everything that we wanted to see around things like education and transportation.

And our political director Rick turned it into a draft. And then we came back a couple weeks later and ratified it together as a group. And so now that it’s on paper, how does this feel? And we use that now as our guiding light and how we do our work. And it was in direct collaboration with carrying the answers to that “thrive” question over the years, and then over a series of people’s conventions as well last year.

Nancy 10:53

Do you use that as a basis for engaging with elected officials, in terms of creating a roadmap forward?

Angela 10:59

Yes, absolutely. It is now also a part of our endorsement process. We want to make sure that people are agreeing to our values and our policy proposals that have been crafted by the community. So, we have folks review it, we have them check off all of the issue areas that they agree on those things. So, we’re able to use that to see where these elected officials are at. If they don’t agree with this particular policy, why? What are your plans? What’s your alternative?

And it’s also a way to guide some of the conversations as well, this is how we’re able to directly take what we’re hearing from the community and put it into practice. And letting elected officials know, hey, these are the things that folks are talking about in the community. And here are some policies that we would like to work with you on. So, we use that in a lot of spaces. It was designed specially to work with candidates and elected officials. But we’ve also heard that there’s other groups that use it as well, to strengthen their own work in the areas that they’re working into.

Nancy 11:59

Like educators? Or what kind of other kinds of groups are using it?

Angela 12:03

Yeah, Planned Parenthood specifically said told us that they will reference it very often as well and cite it as a resource.

Nancy 12:11

Amazing.

So, I want to give a little background about how I first heard about BLOC, because it’ll lead up to my next question. I’ve got to give a little background first, but we’ll get there. So in past election cycles, I’m always giving, you know, $20 to this candidate, $15 to this candidate, and I was always having these like impulsive, “oh my god, that person needs help, I’m going to give them a little bit of money”.  And it felt very scattershot. And that by the end of the 2016 election cycle, I was a husk of myself, because I was so disappointed with the outcome.

And I was determined in 2018, but even more so this year, because of the stakes, I thought, “I’ve got to get strategic about what I’m supporting and who I’m supporting”. And I came across this organization called www.FlipTheVote.Org  that was doing analysis back in February, March, April to figure out how do we really, you know, turn the ship? How do we really have an impact on the outcome of the general election? How do we make sure that our elected officials reflect the will of the majority of the people?

And what they were saying back in March and April is it’s not individual candidates. It’s supporting grassroots Black-led or minority-lead Get Out the Vote efforts, and these on the ground organizations, and so they suggested very strongly you make an investment now, in April, in these organizations. BLOC is one, there’s others in other parts of the country. And that’s where you put your election investment for the year.

So, I did one of those things where like, I wrote a number that made my head sweat, I was like, Oh, my God, I can’t believe I’m doing this. Although, if I add up what I’ve donated elsewhere over the years, it’s probably about the same. And I was able to distribute it through organizations like yours, including yours, to do this work, to do exactly what you’re talking about. And this leads up to my question: why are grassroots organizations, so effective, impactful in ensuring that the results of the elections reflect the needs of the wishes of the people who live there rather than the corporations and the super PACs that are just pouring money into the races?

Angela 14:16

Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I think the simple answer is that we’re still going to be here, long after an election,  long after parties pack up and go home, and long after a candidates win or lose. You know, we’re still here, our issues still matter.

And it’s important for us to continue to engage people and to talk to people. I think there’s a lot of times that people think that the election is the end game, but really, it’s just the beginning. And if we continue to think of election as the first and only stop in  civic engagement, I don’t think that we’re actually seeing our vote through, if we are voting because we want to make a change or we want to make our voices heard. We can’t just expect people to know how to govern and govern on our agenda. They need for us to tell them that on a regular basis.

And so by doing that, you know, we get a chance to continue to organize, we get a chance to build deeper relationships, and get to the heart of people and their issues and why they care about these things. And, you know, there’s not a lot of organizations on the ground that are constantly having that level of investment in level of engagement.

And I would argue, it’s also smarter from  a business standpoint. If people really want a good return on investment, and they’re really focused on elections, then we need to be funding organizations like BLOC and others on a year-round basis, because we’re able to build that trust. And so when the elections come around again, they’re more likely to trust us versus a candidate that’s packed up and now is only engaging their community again, you know, two or four years later when they’re  seeking reelection. Money goes a lot further, because we’re able to continue to engage people.

And if we’re able to continue and remain engaged with folks, then it makes every election cycle a little bit easier, because we’re building this culture and this habit of being civically engaged. So hopefully, turnout theoretically can go up every year, because we’re constantly building those relationships. So, we’re not always having to persuade people about voting, it’s sort of become second nature to them, because they’ve been doing it all year.

Nancy 16:16

And it’s also about investing in the local community and in employment in the city. And you know, that’s really important too.

People were talking about Beto O’Rourke, and the fact that he lost in 2018, and how disappointing that was. Well, he was running against somebody who had a 52% approval rate. And what happened when he was running is that he turned out tons and tons of youth voters who had not been registered before. And guess what, they’re coming out again. So, it’s this idea of building over time, and recognizing that you’re there for the long haul, you know, this engagement, this kind of grassroots organization does exactly this. It creates engaged voters; it creates people who understand that democracy is not a given and done and requires work.

So, I wanted to ask you: in 2020, have you had any COVID challenges, Angela? Of course you have! How are you dealing with that? Particularly because the community has been disproportionately negatively impacted by COVID. How are you having to handle that this year?

Angela 17:20

Yeah, so 2020 has been the challenging the most challenging year of my professional career.

Nancy 17:28

You can say it, I have an “E” on this, I have an explicit rating. It’s been a shit show.

Angela 17:34

I know, I usually mention dumpster fire, you know,

Nancy 17:39

It’s a regional variation!

Angela 17:41

Yeah, something along those lines! Yeah, it’s been a challenge, especially when you’re known for your really aggressive ground game in the field. We had a really ambitious goal that we were excited to, to smash, not just meet, but smash, we were going to knock half a million doors. This year, we were really excited. Our ambassadors are most in their element when they’re able to have face to face conversations just genuinely connect with people. That’s what they’re good at.

And we, in about a 48-hour span, we moved from being out in the field to being completely virtual. We put our folks through about 30 hours of training. And we scaled up, we started the year with 33, ahead of the February election. And ahead of the April election, we knew we wanted 50 people. So, we added an extra 17 in the beginning of March. And by the time they were done with our 30 hours of training, we had to shut down and they didn’t even go on doors, but we kept them on and we all just adapted.

We now have 73 total ambassadors who are texting and phone banking. So, everyone is a pro at Zoom now and using some of these new tools. It was a little bit of an adjustment for us because we just hadn’t done things like virtual phone banks and texting. Like I said, it’s always been out in the field. So, it’s been a learning challenge for all of us.

But then all of the different ways that COVID is really impacting people’s lives, we’re also experiencing that. And so, you know, we’re having team members lose family members and loved ones, we’re having folks being impacted by the increase in domestic violence. We’re having folks having increased mental health challenges, and I myself have to be very intentional, be very mindful of my own mental health, and being protective of my own sustainability and boundaries.

So, all of us are dealing with those challenges in addition to the obvious health and economic challenges, but some of the things that get lost are, you know, mental health and domestic violence. And both of those things have impacted us intimately in some ways. So making sure that we’re able to be supportive of everyone, because when you have a group that big and when you’re hiring folks from your community, you also need to be prepared to support with some of the issues that come with that as well.

Nancy 19:54

And I know you guys are closed on Fridays for that reason, you’re trying to give people space to process and to go through I mean, just … a four day workweek sounds mighty humane at this point.

Angela 20:08

I mean, it’s doable, right? We try to lead by example that, you know, I never thought in a busy presidential year, especially the first year of me being in this role, I never thought I’d be doing four day workweeks. My imposter syndrome would never allow me to think that I can, you know, work twice as hard in a span of four days. But it’s actually been really helpful. And it allowed me to want to be better on my own time management, but it provided that space to reflect, to journal, to heal, to just take some time. And I think it’s not perfect, but it’s something. And honestly, I don’t know where I’d be if we weren’t more intentional with our mental health the way we are right now.

Nancy 20:44

Right. So, let’s talk about the impacts you’ve seen so far. What kind of results have you seen with the work you’ve been doing leading up to this election?

Angela 20:52

We’ve been texting and phone making for a while now. For a while after the April election, we were getting lots of questions about that election. For those that remember, I believe we were the first state to hold a pandemic election we were forced to vote in person. We usually have roughly 180 or so polling places in Milwaukee; we were down to five. And so, it was it was a mess. It was a tragic mess.

But people turned out. But at the same time, there were some people that couldn’t, because they couldn’t risk their health, or they requested an absentee ballot and it never came. So, we were answering a lot of those questions after the April election. We talked to so many people… there’s one older woman in particular, she was so upset that she didn’t get a chance to vote. But she basically was saying, come hell or high water, she’s voting in November, and how can she make sure that she is planning?

So, whatever happened in April doesn’t happen again in November… people are enthusiastic. They are making plans. I think people feel very, very strongly about this election, about this current administration’s leadership, or lack thereof. What’s really thrown people over is that we’re seeing in real time how the federal government is working or not working for people. I think there’s a lot of times that we don’t experience the federal government in the decisions in this way. A lot of times people can’t point to the federal government as being the reason why, you know, they’re having this issue or that issue.

But we’re seeing this play out in real time; people’s unemployment benefits are being cut off. They know that it’s Congress’s fault. If people are looking for an extra $1200, they know that Congress can’t reach another agreement. And so I think people are more connected to the federal government and how it’s playing out, whether it’s through COVID, or the response to these national uprisings and this racial reckoning that we’re in, people are seeing a response or lack thereof in real time. And I think that’s really motivating and a driving factor for making sure that people have a backup plan, and that they know how to make their voice heard come November 3.

Nancy

In a moment, we’ll talk more with Angela about BLOC’s priorities for the last week before the election. But first a message from today’s sponsor.

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And now back to my interview with Angela Lang of Black Leaders Organizing for Communities.

Nancy

So, what will your priorities be for the last week before the race? What are the ways that you’re looking for support? And I would also very much like to have you tell people where they can support BLOC in the last week before the election and beyond!

Angela 25:31

Yeah, absolutely. You know, our biggest focus is making sure that everybody has a plan to vote, they know exactly how to enact that plan. And hopefully, people have a backup plan. So, if people requested an absentee ballot, let’s make sure that you’re dropping them off at the various dropbox locations. And let’s make sure that you’re actually returning that ballot. So, doing some of that work, making sure that people know about the early voting sites in the early voting locations if people choose to vote early.

And also letting people know how to stay safe on election day as well doing some support, and supporting people that are standing in potential long lines, if there are any. We’re preparing for any voter intimidation at the polls as well. So we’re keeping an eye out for all of that, we’re slowly building and training our folks to be able to do some conflict de-escalation if need be, to be able to assist in case someone is turned away at the polls and trying to get them the right information so that they can register or they can cast a ballot that day.

So, we’ll be focused on all of those things, those plans are coming together. And obviously, you know, we have our candidate that we’re advocating for. So, we’re going to be advocating for our candidate as well. So, it’s a mixture of some of the nonpartisan Get Out The Vote, let’s make sure everybody has the logistics that they need, they have the right ID, because Wisconsin is a photo ID state. So, making sure that folks have a photo ID and they have the materials that they need to register. So, it’s going to be a mix in these final days.

Nancy 27:00

And if someone wants to support that work, what’s the best place for them to go to donate?

Angela 27:05

You can feel free to donate online on our website www.BLOCbyBLOC.org , there is a donate page. On our website, we have, as I mentioned, nonpartisan capabilities; that’s through our Education Fund. So that is registering people to vote, making sure people have exactly what they need, nothing partisan when it comes out of that fund. From our C (4) side, that’s where we do talk about candidates that we’re supporting, our endorsed candidates. And then we also recently opened a PAC. And that’s how we’re doing our work for the presidential election. So, people can feel free to donate to either of those. There’s a little breakdown of what all of those go to. And if there’s any other questions, people can send us an email through our website as well, if they want to get involved in other ways.

Nancy 27:50

Great. And I will leave a link to that in the show notes to make it easy for you guys to get over there and read more about BLOC’s work.

I have to ask you: Did you read Caste yet by Isabel Wilkerson? Not that you’re busy this fall or anything.

Angela 28:02

I have so many books that are on my nightstand, I keep buying them. And I was like, I’m just gonna read a chapter a night and I have not been able to read anything all year, unfortunately.

Nancy 28:11

I’m about to blow up Caste because I love this book so much. If you guys haven’t read Isabel Wilkerson’s first book for which she won the Pulitzer, The Warmth of Other Suns, all about the Great Migration. It’s a really important chapter of American history that she handles so beautifully. And this book, the new one Caste is just, it’s a really phenomenal work because first of all, she’s just a beautiful writer, she’s a super researcher. And what she’s done is just look at the question of Black history in America through a slightly different lens, she’s looking at it through a caste system.

So instead of talking about Black and White, she’s talking about subordinate caste and upper caste. And it’s just enough of a shift that it really pulls you backward and you hear what she’s saying anew and appreciate it in a different way.

And I was just thinking about BLOC and similar organizations and why they’re so important because of the work they do to center the needs of the Black community and I’m now I’m even gonna read you two paragraphs that I excerpted because I love this book so much…it’s the most dog eared book that I own.

So, Isabel Wilkerson has made the case that Republicans understand that their customers are white voters; whites have not gone in a majority for a Democratic presidential candidates in decades. What she says is that Democrats need to do a better job of focusing on their most reliable voting bloc and this is what she wrote:

“The foremost concerns of the Democrat’s most reliable voting bloc – affordable housing, clean water, police brutality, the racial wealth gap, and reparations for state-sanctioned discrimination (as has been accorded other groups discriminated against in the United States) – have remained on the back burner, or have even been considered radioactive issues for the party that the African Americans help to sustain.

For those who say that this would be impractical, it would be the duty of the party representing and dependent on the subordinate caste to open the eyes of their fellow Americans and make the case for a more egalitarian country.”

And that’s my book report on Caste by Isabel Wilkerson.

Angela 30:35

No, I think that’s great. That’s something that I’ve heard folks say, even breaking that down a little bit more, right? If the most vulnerable and the most marginalized among us are able to do well, then that means everyone is able to do well.

And, you know, I think specifically about the Black trans women that are being murdered through hate crimes, while simultaneously LGBTQ rights are being rolled back. And so even hearing about some of the folks that we don’t even talk about on a regular basis, I think all of that relates for those of us fighting for justice, and liberation, and equity. We really should be making sure that we’re centering the most marginalized because all of our freedoms are tied together. All of our liberations are tied together. And I can’t be free if Black trans women aren’t free.

Nancy 31:27

That’s right.

Normally this is the part where I talk to you about what it’s like being a midlife, but you don’t know yet. Don’t worry, it’s fine. Here’s my piece of advice to you: it’s fine. It’s going to be fine. Whatever it is, it works out. Come back and listen to all of my podcast episodes if you ever are feeling worried as you get older, because literally everybody says, “Don’t worry about it, it works out.” But I do have a last question for you, which is: what one piece of advice do you have for people younger than you, or do you wish you could go back and tell yourself?

Angela 31:55

I think what I would say is be bold and unapologetic.

I just saw a quote, I believe was from Eleanor Roosevelt, recently, and I hear this on occasion, almost like the Universe sends it to me when I need to hear it the most.

But it’s something along the lines of “do what you’re going to do and what you believe in your heart to be right, because you’re going to get criticized for it anyways. You might as well just do the right thing.” I’m butchering it, but it was that was the sentiment. And I think something that my mom told me when I was younger is that you can’t be afraid to do what’s right, and to say what needs to be said and to stand up for the truth. And sometimes that’s going to be lonely. And sometimes it’s going to be very isolating. But it’s important to do the right thing, even if it’s if it’s lonely, and it’s important to speak truth to the power and everything shall pass.

And that’s something I even have to remind myself about 2020, is that “this too shall pass”. And even if it feels very difficult, if it’s the right thing in your heart to do, you just got to do it.

Nancy 32:52

That’s great advice, regardless of our age.

And I would just implore all of you who are listening to check out BLOC’s work, you know, raise a glass of appreciation to Angela for the hard work that she and her organization are doing on behalf of all of us in the democracy in which we live.

And Angela, hang in there, keep it together for the next week. I hope you get some deep cleansing breaths and a little bit of sleep. And thank you again so much for the work you’re doing.

Angela 33:18

Thank you, I’ll try my hardest!

Nancy 33:25

Okay, so after I talked to Angela I went and checked out Sista Strings and oh my gosh, what talented musicians, what beautiful music! I usually cannot listen to music when I work, but this is actually music I could work by. Just lovely soundscapes and so talented. So, check out the video that I’m going to include in the show notes and look for them on your own, too – Sista Strings.

Alright guys, I’m sending you all a big socially distanced solidarity hug. Let’s go into this week with joy, not fear, with hope, not anger, and with that invaluable sense of midlife perspective that reminds us that everything will be okay in the end. And that we can each play a role in making that the case.

Let me know what you thought of this episode. You can email me at dj@midlifemixtape.com, or find me on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram @midlifemixtape. I’m going to try not to be on there doom scrolling for the next week. But if I see you guys send me a message, I will respond to that!

So, tune in next time for a timely conversation I had with an epidemiologist and public health expert about the state of play with COVID. And I’m going to be asking him the questions that you guys sent in, including a big one:  Can we safely celebrate a multi-generational Thanksgiving this year? That is the question.

Speaking of Thanksgiving, here’s my seasonal plug for my book, The Thank-You Project: Cultivating Happiness One Letter of Gratitude at a Time. It’s about a year I spent writing thank you letters to 50 people who had helped, shaped, or inspired me. And maybe, since Thanksgiving is going to be different this year, you could mark it by writing your gratitude letter. Maybe that can be part of your celebration. The book is a blueprint and motivation for readers to start their own Thank-You projects and it helps you figure out how to gain the perspective, calm, and resilience that comes from recognizing all the ways you’ve been helped by others in your life. It’s available in bookstores, online, and for audio listening. The Thank-You Project: Cultivating Happiness One Letter of Gratitude at a Time – check it out.

All right, you guys have a really great week. Hang in there.

[THEME MUSIC – “Be Free” by M. The Heir Apparent]

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

The post Ep 85 Community Organizer Angela Lang appeared first on Midlife Mixtape .

                  Related StoriesEp 84 Therapist Mazi RobinsonEp 83 Navy Veteran/Episcopal Priest Andrew HyblPodcast of the Year! 

Ep 83 Navy Veteran/Episcopal Priest Andrew Hybl

“A bunch of big questions”: Reverend Andrew Hybl on enlisting in the military after 9/11, how doubts raised during active duty in Iraq gradually unfolded into Episcopal priesthood, and how Tupac nudged the whole process along.

Are you registered to vote? Check here to be sure and to get involved in GOTV efforts near you!
Write letters to Swing State voters and encourage them to make their voices heard!

Back when I was asked to compile a mixtape to be played in the lobby for the Listen To Your Mother shows every year on Mother’s Day, this song was a slam dunk for inclusion.

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the podcast – check him out here!

***This is a rough transcription of Episode 83 of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast. It originally aired on September 29, 2020. Transcripts are created using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and there may be errors in this transcription, but we hope that it provides helpful insight into the conversation. If you have any questions or need clarification, please email dj@midlifemixtape.com ***

 

Andrew Hybl 0:00

I don’t care what people believe as long as their beliefs aren’t based in retribution or violence or discrimination based on people’s skin color or political whatever…Theology is very important because when you’ve seen it at its most extreme, you know where it can lead to.

THEME MUSIC – Be Free by M. The Heir Apparent

Nancy Davis Kho 0:18

Welcome to Midlife Mixtape, the Podcast. I’m Nancy Davis Kho and we’re here to talk about the years between being hip and breaking one

MUSIC

Nancy    0:43

Hey everyone, this is Nancy Davis Kho the creator and host of the Midlife Mixtape Podcast and I’m thrilled to let you know that I can now say I’m the host of an award winning podcast. That’s right. Last week, I learned that the Midlife Mixtape Podcast won an Iris Award for Podcast of the Year from Mom2.0. Mom2is a conference I’ve attended for years, which works at the intersection of moms, marketers and the media. And I’m incredibly honored that the community saw fit to give my show the nod and I want to thank all of you for listening and sharing the Midlife Mixtape Podcast, for your kind reviews that helps surface this little labor of love to a broader audience. I’ll be right back. I just have to tell the stonemason what font to use when they chisel award winning on my tombstone. Thanks, you guys. I really appreciate it.

MUSIC

Hey, everybody, it’s Nancy here and welcome to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast, we’re going to spend the next half hour or so talking about the years between being hip and breaking one. So, take a break from trying to understand why in 2020 to cap means to lie, or where to drop a casual yeet into the appropriate spot in your conversations pressures off. We’re not supposed to be that hip you guys, we don’t want to look like we’re trying that hard.

Serious question, are you registered to vote? Have you double checked? That’s not the kind of thing you want to figure out on November 2, given the barriers that keep getting thrown up to prevent people from having their vote count in this incredibly important upcoming presidential election. It’s important to have your voting plan together in advance. And if you have the wherewithal to do it to make sure others in your community do as well. So, check out vote.org to get started, that’s a really good place to go. The other site that I’ve been on a bunch is vote Forward, Votefwd.org, you can write letters to voters in swing states with a low propensity to vote and encourage them to get out and vote. It’s not endorsing a particular candidate or party. It’s just about voter turnout. So votefwd.org, check that one out as well.

I have really been looking forward to today’s interview, which is with my friend Reverend Andrew Hybl. Andrew and I met about 10 years ago when he was assigned as the seminarian,which is a minister in training, at my Episcopal Church here in Oakland, and we just hit it off over a shared appreciation for rap music and inappropriate comments during church how the I don’t even remember how that came up. Like “Hello, father. What do you think of Busta Rhymes?” I don’t remember how we how we figured this out. But we did. He’s definitely the only priest I’ve ever taken along to an old school hip hop dance party.

But the reason I invited him on the show is because of his unique career path and how music played a part in shaping it.

So Reverend Andrew Hybl is an Episcopal priest and currently the Dean of Students at church at the Divinity School of the Pacific in Berkeley, California. Prior to attending seminary, he served on active duty in the armed forces and he lives with his beautiful wife and two young children in Oakland, California. They spend most of their time on zoom while navigating the current pandemic. So, grab a pew – you’ll notice as you listen that Andrew’s got a bit of a squeaky chair situation that didn’t come through in the interview only what I listened to afterward, so we’re gonna pretend he’s sitting in an old church pew too – and settling for my talk with Reverend Andrew Hybl.

MUSIC

Nancy

I am here today with my friend Andrew Hybl. Andrew, welcome to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast.

Andrew Hybl 4:02

Thank you. Happy to be here.

Nancy    4:03

We have talked about doing this for quite some time. Because there is a story I’m going to make you tell that you have been holding over my head for years, and I think everyone should hear it at the same time. But before we get to that, what was your first concert and what were the circumstances?

Andrew 4:19

My first concert was when I was about six or seven my parents took me to a to Live Crew concert.

Nancy    4:28

Talk more about that, Andrew? I guess I did not see that… I haven’t met your parents. But that’s not what I pictured.

Andrew 4:35

Yeah, no, that never happened.

Nancy    4:39

But see, I’m ready to believe it. I was so ready to believe it.

Andrew 4:43

Yeah, no, that never happened. My first was New Kids on the Block, which is a little bit different than that group.

Nancy    4:50

Do you want to now say that didn’t happen because that…

Andrew 4:53

No, that happened. Unfortunately.

Nancy    4:55

New Kids on the Block are great. What was that like? How old were you? Who’d you go with?

Andrew 4:59

I think it was nine I went with my friend Hamilton Peters. I think it was at the State Fairgrounds.

Nancy    5:06

Was Hamilton Peters one of the founding fathers? Because it sounds like he should have been.

Andrew 5:09

I think so. It should have been when I was around nine or 10. And it was at the County Fairgrounds, and I think I had an airbrushed New Kids on the black t shirt on.

Nancy    5:19

I love the first concerts that take place at the fairground, because you’ve got your cotton candy. You can hear the livestock in the background. It’s everything. It’s multisensory.

Andrew   5:29

Yeah, there’s no doubt, I mean, that best day of my life.

Nancy    5:32

Now which fairground was that?

Andrew 5:34

It was in Columbia, South Carolina.

Nancy    5:36

Okay. Now, here’s my follow up musical question for you. Do you think that you could rap a whole sermon?

Andrew 5:43

Oh, yeah, I’ve done it.

Nancy    5:46

Does anybody have video of that?

Andrew

Thank God. No.

Nancy    5:50

He does. He does, because he gets copies of everybody’s Sunday sermon, but nobody else. Okay. I hope to witness it someday.

You know, one of the reasons I wanted you on the show is because one of my favorite things about people at midlife is a lot of us have taken a lot of twists and turns to get where we are. So the college major we had, or the thing that we were sure we were going to be when we were 15 years old is SO not who we are in our 40s and 50s. So I group the podcast episodes together. And this is for my Long Way ‘Round mix. And I always have been really fascinated with the long way round that you took.

So let’s start by talking about what the first chapter of that looked like. And that was your time in the armed services. So, can you talk to me a little bit about your military service? How old were you when you joined? Why did you join Lay it on me!

Andrew 6:41

Sure. September 11, 2001. That was the fall semester of my senior year in college. And the morning it happened. It was about nine o’clock am where I was. And I remember they canceled classes at the university, and I sat in my fraternity house and watched the news for 12 hours straight. Didn’t move, didn’ eat. I was it was my senior year; it was the fall. So, I was actually studying for the LSATS to go to law school. Those that was my plan. But something really changed that day. And I just had this impending feeling that we were going to be going to war soon. And I was 22, probably have a lot more testosterone than I had critical thinking at the time. And I signed up really soon after. I knew exactly what I wanted to do.

Nancy    7:34

Had you ever given it any thought prior to September 11?

Andrew 7:37

My family has a history. My dad was in the Navy grandfather, and I’ve got uncles and stuff like that, but it just wasn’t in the cards for me. I never really thought about it until one day and it was just crystal clear what I was going to be doing next

Nancy    7:50

And you joined the Navy. And you deployed twice overseas. Is that right?

Andrew 7:56

Yeah, I had a weird job. I was technically in the Navy, but I’ve never…

Nancy    8:00

You can’t swim?

Andrew 8:02

Outside of initial training. I’ve never been on a Navy base. I’ve never stepped foot on a navy ship. I was assigned to Marine Corps units for five and a half years that I was in.

Nancy    8:12

So, can you talk a little bit about where you served and how long you said five and a half years. But how much of that was you were in Iraq? Right?

Andrew 8:19

Yeah. So, I did a lot of personal security. I mean, that was a lot of my work. I worked with a lot of chaplains on personal security because they’re noncombatants.

For a while I was going out with a quick reaction force. We were outside of Baghdad; we were in the Sunni triangle is what it’s called. So, it’s between Baghdad and Fallujah and Ramadi. And it was, there’s, you know, there’s kind of intense periods when you’re overseas. And then there’s a lot of just boredom. It’s not what you see in the movies. It’s not all just gung ho 24 hours a day. It’s a lot of boredom. I was 22. And so, I had a pretty limited worldview when I went in, and I think going over to a completely foreign country and getting a better understanding of politics. Just it expanded your worldview exponentially.

Nancy    9:12

So, what are the things… I’m curious, you were in your 20s? You were you were out of the military again, you know, by the time you were 30. But what are the things that you learned from that experience that influence the person you are in your 40s? Are you in your 40s yet? I always think of you as a young whippersnapper, but that’s only compared to me, and I’m old as hell. So a lot of people could be still old, but younger than me.

Andrew 9:34

I actually turned 40 this year, on January 1.

Nancy    9:39

Well, kudos to you for having that done before COVID set in, nice job.

Andrew 9:44

But you know what I learned over there. I mean, what influenced me was, you know, just the expanded worldview and seeing what I considered at that time was observing the worst of religion and the worst of humanity combined. You’ve got people trying to kill other people because the government tells them to. And you’ve got different religions professing that God was on their respective side. And it just creates this nightmare sandwich of the worst of religion and the worst of humanity. Now, if I had to boil it down, that’s the one big lesson that I took away.

Nancy    10:19

Were there any positive things you took away from it? I mean, I know how you converted that into a positive, we’re going to talk about that. But I’ve never served in the military. So, I can only imagine what it’s like to have that kind of a team and that kind of trust among your fellow soldiers. I wonder how that might play out as a 40 something?

Andrew 10:35

Yeah, I mean, the camaraderie that is built there is unmatched in any other setting that I’ve found myself in. I would also say, you know, the military is great for a lot of people. I was not always a saint. And I still am not. But it gave me a lot of discipline, it gave me a lot of direction, task accomplishment, mission accomplishment, whatever you want to call it. I mean, those things bleed over into civilian life. And I really needed it at the time, and I wasn’t aware of how much I needed it. I just took away a lot of life skills that, you know, helped me become the person I am today.

Nancy    11:05

And then came a Tupac song and everything changed. And this, listeners, this is what I’ve been waiting for. So, Andrew, take us through how Tupac changed your life.

Andrew 11:16

Yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s no doubt, I would say that probably one of the biggest influences. For me becoming a priest, which is totally crazy to say that, it was years of when I was going to going through high school and college and figuring out who I was. And so, I kind of felt like I grew up with him.

But Tupac originally started with this group called Digital Underground. And when I was in college, my fraternity actually hired Digital Underground to fly in for a fundraiser party. And I mean, it was amazing to meet everyone that was in the group. And these people that I’d listened to, since I was 12 years old. But it was almost surreal, right, to have these people playing in our fraternity party in Arkansas, of all places. They felt like they just landed on Mars when we did our party.

But I don’t know, the thing about Tupac, he, to me, seems like this really prophetic guy. I mean, he was fearless about the way he expressed his views and his beliefs. But at the same time, he’s really socially conscious about important issues within his community. On the other hand, at times, he was very vulnerable. And his lyrics would show you a side of him that was deeply passionate about the social issues that not only plagued his community, but the rest of the world. This is 20 years ago, but so much of what he spoke about, about racial injustice and police brutality, that’s the exact same things that we’re dealing with in our context today, right?

And so, as I was kind of contemplating Seminary in my own faith tradition, in my own context of the Episcopal Church, now, when I was preparing to go to seminar… you can open up the Bible, and you’re going to open up the middle. And it’s going to be the book of Psalms, right? And the book of Psalms is just a collection of poems and hymns and prayers that really powerfully express the feelings of the Jewish people, during some very challenging times in their own context. I couldn’t open the book of songs without seeing almost a direct parallel to Tupac lyrics. I mean, he’s addressing some of the very same things in in his own legs.

And in his own lyrics, he talks all the time about God and faith, or prayer and hope or asking for God’s protection. And he spoke all the time about resurrection and life after death. His last album cover was a picture of him crucified on a cross! But at the same time, he was very critical of religion at times, which is a good thing. I mean, you need to be, right? But I mean, I think the entire collection of his music, I mean, it had an impact on my life.

Nancy    13:47

Did it make it easier knowing the ability that he had to balance the secular and the holy? Did that make it easier for you? Because I can’t imagine it was an easy transition to say, you know what, I’ve just decided, I’m gonna enter this seminary, which is preacher school, for those of you who don’t know.

Andrew 14:04

Yes. And I mean, I think I can expand on that in a minute. One of the things I respect about him is … you know, Nancy, I’m the most non-religious priest you’ve probably ever met.

Nancy

By far.

Andrew

And I’m okay with that. I take pride in it. I mean, there’s, you know, I have this deep fascination with God and faith and forgiveness, but I don’t necessarily like church. I don’t necessarily like religious people, you know. And so I saw some of that in him as well, that was, you know, just deeply inspiring.

Nancy    14:37

For people who are listening who are not members of organized religion… One of the things that I’ve always liked so much about the Episcopal Church is how much it values doubt, or at least the Episcopal Churches that I’ve stuck around with you know, they value doubt. It’s a part of faith. It’s a part of humanity. It’s very hard for me to deal with Christians who are all about “this is what the Bible says. And so that’s what has to be done.” Because there’s so much room in the Christian faith for interpretation and for, you know, letting it be a living, breathing thing. And I think I think that’s what I’m hearing you say is that you saw that in Tupac lyrics that he kind of could hold both those things at the same time, that certainty of faith, but also the unknown that plagues us all, all the time. And the and the ways in which we have flaws in which we fall short.

Andrew 15:28

Without a doubt, I think, he helped it helped give me permission to not try to bury those feelings of doubt. It empowered me to realize that doubt is an integral part of faith. And I experience it probably more than anybody. It’s different when you’re leading a church, or you’re in a leadership role in the church versus maybe in the pews. But it just gave me permission to know that those feelings were okay.

When it comes to doubt… It was 1995 when he came out with this song called Dear Mama, and it’s this beautiful tribute to his mother. She was one of the most important people in his entire life. And shortly after that song came out, my own mother had a massive stroke. And she was taken to the hospital and she was in intensive care for weeks and weeks. And the doctors did not think that she was going to make it. And they had a priest come in to perform last rites. My mom, when she was in intensive care… thank God, fortunately, weeks and weeks and years later, she’s made a full recovery. But I probably played that Dear Mama song a billion times when she was in the hospital. I mean, in her room while she was unconscious! The thoughts of doubt were totally there. I mean, when you’re 16 years old, your mom’s in intensive care hooked up to tubes, you don’t know how to process that. Right? And you just think God’s left the room, right?

It was one of those songs that I played a million times and you know, it consoled me, but it also gave me permission to doubt, but it also, I could resonate with the feelings he had about his mom.

Nancy    17:02

Right. Well, that’s the gift of a good song, isn’t it? It reminds you you’re not alone and it says the stuff you don’t even know. That’s how you’re feeling. And then suddenly, you are singing along with it. You’re like, “Oh, right.”

Andrew 17:14

He gave me language for what I didn’t know how to say in that moment.

Nancy    17:20

So I’m still curious, you say that when you are considering the seminary, what was the midterm step between serving in the armed forces and deciding because not everybody leaves? Not everyone who leaves the military becomes a priest. I feel like that’s a rather… there’s not a huge off ramp that goes in that direction. So what was it like to make that choice and to take that direction?

Andrew 17:42

I mean, for me, it wasn’t as much of a leap. I mean, I would say for me, it was more of a gradual unfolding. When I left active duty, I just had a bunch of existential questions. I have a bunch of free money because of the new GI Bill. And, you know, one of our battalion chaplains, this guy, Father Spencer, Catholic priest, he was a former Marine infantry officer turned navy chaplain, amazing human being. Well, I would just sit and bug the hell out of him for hour in the desert, just asking him all these crazy questions.

I could tell he’s probably just getting a little tired of it, but he never showed it. And he just, he’s the one who pulled me aside was like, “Look, you’ve got a bunch of big existential questions. And these are valid questions, and I can’t answer them for you. Because you need to go dig into these subjects on your own. And you really need to kind of break this stuff open and form your own theology.”

And so that’s when I moved to Berkeley to begin seminary at the Graduate theological union. But at the time, you know, I was still in my 20s, I knew I wasn’t really ready to just kind of move back into general society and get a job and carry on with my life. Right? There was a period of, you know, I’m gonna say, a downtime or a healing time that I needed to wrestle with some of these issues. And so when I went to the graduate theological union, ordination wasn’t on my mind. It wasn’t like I went there “Oh, I’m gonna go become an Episcopal priest.” I didn’t know what the hell I was going to do. I just had a bunch of big questions.

And so that’s how I ended up there. But you know, then it just became a gradual unfolding process of as I started to wrestle with these things. And as I started to meet some Episcopal clergy, like Scott Denman, or Phil Rashard, or some of the people in the local Bay Area, these are people that I looked up to and people that I could really resonate with. And a lot of ways we spoke the same language. You know, for me, it was just a gradual, unfolding process that wasn’t in the cards for me when I started.

Nancy    19:35

Well, it’s so interesting, because I think for a lot of us in when we were in our 20s, and you know, let’s say early 30s, the idea of having unanswered questions is kind of terrifying. Because what you’re told all along is you’re going to do this, you’re going to do this, you know, this is kind of the path and it feels like everybody around you knows what they’re doing. And I’m saying this, of course, prior to 2020 and COVID, when nobody knows nobody does anything about anything, but it’s intimidating to think of having so many big unanswered questions.

And I think there’s a measure of bravery that goes along with like, okay, just follow your nose, see what happens. I’ll ask you at the end of the episode, what do you wish you could go back and tell your younger self? But oftentimes, the answer that I get from guests on that question is about going back to the younger self and saying, “take a risk, just get started. Don’t worry about perfection, just do something, just start.” And I think it’s really illustrative in your situation.

Now you are the Dean of Students for the Church Divinity School of the Pacific here in the Bay Area. So you’re not only an ordained Episcopal priest, but now you are helping other people who are considering that path to discern whether or not they want to do that. Are you like the Catholic priest in the desert? Are you answering tons of questions from people all the time?

Andrew 20:50

In ways…Yes, I mean, my graduate theological union is a consortium of nine schools, right in the neighborhood in Berkeley from different denominations and that kind of stuff. So I did my first master’s degree at Pacific School of religion, which is a very non-denominational or interdenominational school that they don’t really shoehorn you into a specific track. And then once I was pursuing ordination in the Episcopal Church, I had to go CDSP across the street and do all my Episcopal studies.

Nancy    21:16

That’s Church Divinity School of the Pacific.

Andrew 21:19

So where I’m at now, which is CDSP, the Episcopal seminary, a lot of those students have gone through a lot of the discernment process already. And you know, they did a lot of the things that I was doing when I was in my master’s degree across the street. So a lot of them are prepared to go my school. But I think what I spent a lot of time with is everybody has preconceived notions about what being a priest is like, or what you know what they’re gonna do. And there’s a big Reality Check that comes with that.

Nancy    21:44

What’s the biggest disconnect? Where’s the biggest space between expectation and reality?

Andrew 21:48

Well, I mean, it’s a service job, right? So, of course, you can look at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco with just this gorgeous Gothic architecture. Beautiful, huge church. Well, guess what, Bubba, you’re not going there for you. You’re not going to be the Dean of the cathedral.

Nancy    22:04

It’s a long way to the top if you wanna Grace Cathedral.

Andrew 22:08

Exactly. But, you know, it’s bringing expectations into more of a realistic picture. But it’s also reminding people… you know, my first parish priest job was in Conway, Arkansas and my wife was born and raised in Berkeley. The only time she’s ever left was law school in Los Angeles. And then, three months after we got married, I was like, “Hey, we’re moving to Arkansas. And…”

Nancy    22:28

I remember she was stoked.

Andrew   22:34

She was not. But you know, she ended up absolutely loving it. And the job of a priest, of course…we’d all like to live in a beautiful place by the ocean or whatever. But that’s not how it’s gonna end up, you may end up in a tiny little town with a tiny parish of 20-something elderly people. Well, they are still deserving of care and love. So a lot of what I do is help people realize this is about service to other people and it doesn’t matter where you are, what you’re doing, and the faster you can wrap your head around that then I think they  really start functioning as a priest.

Nancy    23:07

In a minute, we’re going to come back with Andrew and talk about what his military buddies think of his transformation from soldier to priest. But first a word from our sponsor.

Today’s episode is brought to you by Admit Academy.co. I hope everyone’s school years off to an okay start and that routine is settling in a little bit. However it looks for you, routine can be a good thing sometimes, especially given how much uncertainty there has been this year. One of the routine things about high school juniors and seniors is that they may be thinking about what fall of 2021 or 2022 looks like and where they may be attending school.

If you’ve read my book, The Thank you Project, you know that my father in law was a walking encyclopedia of college facts. And so, for my family to be talking about colleges, that is just a hobby; that’s like other families watch baseball or, I don’t know, play music together. We talk about colleges, but it’s a lot to absorb and digest and think about and that’s where AdmitAcademy.co comes in.

That’s AdmitAcademy.co not.com… They make it easier to generate that list of schools to apply to and give you the confidence to know that you’re working with a reliable informed partner. Admit Academy is the first college search platform that brings the power of choice theory to make building a college list easier. Instead of flipping through those three inch thick books which we used to have on our kitchen table all the time or trying to narrow down from 100 schools spit out from an online algorithm.

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So, give yourself the college jumpstart you and your kids deserve. There’s no risk with Admit Academy’s Money Back Guarantee and plans that allow you to have additional phone calls and revise your list up to three times. And with my promo code mixtape, MIXTAPE all caps you get 10% off just go to and type in the word MIXTAPE all caps, that’s AdmitAcademy.co/ mixtape promo code MIXTAPE. Admit Academy the modern way to build your college list.

MUSIC

Alright, we’re back with Andrew Hybl. And I was curious to know what your soldier friends, what your Navy buddies thought when they heard that you were becoming a priest? I wonder if anybody that heard thought, “Okay, well, we saw that from day one.” Or if it was a surprise to them?

Andrew 25:50

Yeah, most of them thought I took a bad hit acid and never came back. No, it’s 50/50. You know, I probably talk to three of those guys from back in those days. And you know, that’s not a good thing or a bad thing. It just is what it is, it’s a very, you know, being in the military is very transient thing, you’re always moving, or you’re deployed, or you lose touch with people all the time. The guys who I know, close the guys who were close to me, you know, they wouldn’t have picked that as my job. But when they knew what I was doing, it wasn’t shocking. You know, they had these big questions because I was bothering the hell out of them, too.

Nancy    26:26

So, what do you think about being at midlife and being a priest? Do you think you look at things through a different lens now that you’re 40 than you did, you know, 10 years ago, when you were just kind of entering this? What are the ways in which you regard the job or the role or the service differently now? Because you’ve got, let’s face it a few more miles on you?

Andrew 26:49

Oh, yeah, I think I definitely look at the world through a different lens. But I don’t necessarily attribute that to my age, as much as I do. It’s just the way I was trained. You know, it’s the way seminary trained you to look at the world through a lens of forgiveness as a core concept of one of my deepest beliefs, right, like giving people 100 chances to improve or become their better self.

So, I also look at the world at the underlying injustices that we see everywhere around us. And it’s heartbreaking. So, for me, it’s not so much age as it is, it’s just the lens. And the lens that I was trained in my 20s was a much more violent. We all look at the world through a different lens. And so in my 20s, it was because of my context, I was trained that way by the military. In my 30s, I look at it very differently because seminary trained me to and you know, in my 40s now I much prefer the lens that I look at now versus my twenties.

Nancy    27:43

You said your takeaway from serving in Iraq was that it was the worst of religion, the worst of humanity. And I imagine that as somebody who wears a clerical collar, I mean, there’s a lot of damage being done in the name of religion, doesn’t matter which religion you pick, but somewhere there’s injustice being perpetrated. And I wonder, are you often called on to defend it? You’ve seen it yourself… I mean, you’ve experienced it yourself when you were in the military. So, what’s it like to, you know, be called on to kind of are you called on by people to defend it? Or, you know, do you have to get defensive? What’s that like?

Andrew 28:20

No, I mean, I don’t… I don’t know. This is, it’s a great question, but it’s kind of difficult to answer. You know, I’m not called on to be a public apologist for religion. I mean, there’s terrible religion out there all the time. But I think what I try to convey to people is, theology is very important, what you believe…if you have any belief in God or not, beliefs are powerful, right? So, I saw bad theology in action, right? I see what happens if you believe that your God, you know, wants you to go and kill these people or those people for being, you know, who knows what. So that’s, that’s a theology problem.

And it’s not necessarily a political question for a lot of wars that we see. It’s a question about beliefs. And so, I don’t care what people believe as long as their beliefs aren’t based in retribution, or violence, or discrimination based on people’s skin, color, political… whatever. So, for me, especially with students, you know, I stress with students that theology is very important, because when you’ve seen it at its most extreme, you know where it can lead to. And so, for me, that’s kind of been the guiding principle. But no, I don’t go out and try to Bible bash people are trying to correct them. I think actions speak a lot louder than words.

Nancy 29:34

Yeah, I found myself as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten much more involved in my church because it’s a place where people can take positive action. Maybe it’s why you and I clicked so much when you started as the seminary at our church because I feel kind of the same way about the religion piece of it, I have a lot of questions about it. But “oh, we’re going to go work at a food bank?” or “we’re going to march in the Oakland gay pride parade?” or “we’re going to go lobby for equitable bus routes,” and that stuff I can get behind. And our church has been the conduit for me to be able to do that.

So it’s all about the actions and so when I see the good it can do, it makes me so sick to my stomach when I see the bad it can do on the other side: the evangelicals who, you know, are excusing such horrific behavior and rationalizing it. And it’s just, it’s even worse to think that that is someone who believes themselves to be a devout Christian in the same way that I do. But we just have a completely different understanding what that looks like in practice.

Andrew 30:32

Yeah, I taught your daughter’s confirmation classes like 10 years ago, we had a conversation about… they had to explore some other world religion, and your daughter got, I don’t even know what it was now. But we had a conversation about how weird it was …me, and you, and you were like, “this is crazy.” And I was like, most religion is, but what if, you know, what’s going to come out of this? What kind of actions are we going to take? And I think that’s a big fundamental difference, right?

Nancy    30:57

And I don’t think you have to be part of an organized religion to …obviously you don’t have to be an adherent to organized religion to make those kinds of positive changes. But for me, I just get so inspired by our community.

I’m going to change gears here a little bit, because I want to acknowledge that you have little kids at home, and it’s a pandemic, and it’s 2020. And you must be so you and Julie both work full time. And how old are the kids know?

Andrew 31:23

Who knows?

Nancy    31:24

What is time? And so, are they are they on at home online? What do you guys, what’s your situation? What is your deal, Andrew?

Andrew 31:31

It’s awesome. I mean, literally, we’ve been stuck in the house for two hundred years. I mean, there’s been no breathable air for the past week. So that was fun. Yeah, I mean, you go outside, and you choke and get lung cancer in five minutes. I’ve got a five year old daughter who’s on zoom kindergarten, which is fantastic. And my second grade son is on Zoom and just thriving. And my wife is working 14 hour days, and I’m doing the same. I mean, it’s, it’s quite frankly, it’s just beautiful.

Nancy    32:03

Yeah, I know exactly what you hoped for in 2020 in January when you turned 40, “you know what, I hope I get more family time!”

Andrew 32:12

I mean, no, it’s hard. It’s hard for everybody. And we are we’re making do the best we can. We’re very fortunate that we’ve hired a woman who is our angel who comes in and helps the kids do all their zoom classes and all their homework between eight and four every day. So Julie and I can work. Yeah. But what actually has come out of this is, I don’t mind my kids anymore. I don’t mind. They’re here.

Nancy    32:36

Why would you mind your kids? You have amazing kids. It makes me Oh, you drove me crazy. When you make those jokes about them.

Andrew 32:42

It’s not a joke, man. This is the truth. Look, my life and Julie’s life was so busy pre Covid. It was 24 hours a day. Just crazy, way too crazy. And I never want to go back to that level of crazy. But now that the kids are in the house 24 hours a day, it feels like a real actual happy family. And so for me, it sucks. It sucks for everybody. But if we were to go back tomorrow, and my kids were to go to school, and I would go back to the office, I’d be heartbroken. Yeah, I missed them just like the first time you drop them off at school.

Nancy    33:14

Yeah, I hear that. I’m glad to hear that, I adore your kids. And I mean, I get it, you guys were super frantic. So it makes sense. I feel the same way. But on the other side where I’ve got my college grad and my college sophomore living at home. And I keep saying I, you know, it was so great having the empty nest and I do, for their sakes, obviously hope they can pick up and go somewhere eventually, but I’m going to miss the hell out of them. Because it’s really, it’s nice having them home, and I didn’t expect to have them home. So, you know, hopefully people will remember that this the stuff that sometimes really feels stressful and burdensome. We’re gonna miss it. Parts of it anyway.

All right, have one last question for you, Andrew, what one piece of advice do you have for people younger than you? Or do you wish you could go back and tell yourself?

Andrew 34:00

I got two things might be cheesy, but one is just be kind to people right now. And the second is Thank you. Be kind because everybody’s struggling right now. With something whether you know it or see it or don’t. And as a priest, people just naturally open up to me, and they tell me their stories. And so, I’m aware for a lot of people life is really difficult right now. So, for goodness sakes, be nice to each other.

Then the thank you: your Thank You Project was absolutely genius. I just have to say, because none of us accomplish anything on our own. I think we’re products of hundreds of thousands of people that contribute to who we are. And if you take the time to really stop and think of who those people are in your life and let them know how much you genuinely appreciate it. I think writing a handwritten letter is a very powerful way to accomplish something.

Nancy    34:49

I couldn’t agree more, and I did not pay him for that. So, I just want that to be clear, Andrew – your check is in the mail. Yeah, I do owe you a letter. You’re the only priest I know who, you know, comes up during the passing of the peace and starts talking rap lyrics. And I do appreciate that, that does make my life better. It’s in the mail, Andrew, just keep going out and go out through the smoke and check.

Thank you so, so much for coming on the show. I’m glad I finally got to hear that story of how Tupac inspired you. And I really I’m going to listen to his lyrics differently now knowing that so thank you for sharing that.

Andrew

Of course, I have a blast.

Nancy    35:25

Thank you so much.

MUSIC

Nancy    35:31

I want to take a second here to say to Andrew and to any of my listeners who are currently serving or have served our country in the armed forces. Thank you. Thank you for your bravery for your sacrifice and for your family’s sacrifice. I am really grateful for your contribution to our country’s security. So thank you so much.

After Andrew and I got off the phone, I immediately got an email from him with a list of classes that he’s compiled of college and universities offering a two part based course curriculum. Here’s a sample: UC Berkeley had a course called Poetry and History of Tupac; Harvard taught Modern Protest Literature from Thomas Paine to Tupac. The University of Washington taught Text and Tupac, and Boston University taught a course called The Gospel according to Tupac.

So obviously, Andrew is onto something. Between this and my older daughter’s freshman year advisory class that she took called “Pop and Protest” where the first assignment, and I’m not lying, her first assignment was to “think about Beyonce’s Formation video.” I really think I may have done college wrong. When she got that assignment, she called me and said, “Mom, that’s all I’ve done for the past six months.”

What did you think of today’s episode? I’d love to hear your thoughts about it. You can reach me at DJ at midlifemixtape.com if you’re into email, or you can reach out on Instagram, Facebook or Twitter @ midlifemixtape.

I hope you’ll join me for the next episode. We’re gonna be talking about midlife mental health and how we’re managing right now. My guest will give us some tips to help us hang on to whatever scraps of sanity we’ve managed to retain despite the pandemic, ongoing racial injustices, fires, hurricanes, nonstop negative political advertising, and even toilet paper shortages. And I hope that however you’re feeling you’ll hear that you are not alone, and you’re not overreacting. We will get through this. We are Gen Xers… we used to have to stand up and cross the room to change TV channels. We can handle this.

Alright, take care you guys and have a great week!

THEME MUSIC

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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                  Related StoriesEp 80 “Home-Baked” Author Alia VolzPodcast of the Year!Ep 82 TueNight.com Founder Margit Detweiler 

Podcast of the Year!

During what feels like an existentially heavy season, I have a piece of good news to share: last week, The Midlife Mixtape Podcast won an Iris Award for Podcast of the Year at the Mom2.0 Summit.

As thrilled and honored as I feel for the recognition, I also struggled with sharing the news here. It just feels…off key to talk about a success amid so much widespread loss. But I’m taking a deep breath and doing it because one of the things I’m proudest of about my self-taught, homegrown, 100% solo show is that it’s enabled me to share the voices and stories we need right now. Like:

Democracy Defenders Isabel Kallman and Jeannine Harvey
HeadCount co-founder Andy Bernstein
Resistance Genealogist Jennifer Mendelsohn
Affordable Housing Advocate Fay Darmawi
Congressional Candidate Major Mary Jennings “MJ” Hegar
Journalist Otis Taylor Jr.

And so many more…including episodes I’ve already recorded and will roll out this fall. It’s been an utter privilege to provide a platform for smart people at midlife to share how we can all play a part in a more just, equitable future. (And also, their first concerts, because #priorities.)

I am grateful to all of you for listening, sharing, and supporting the show since it started in 2017 – and of course for contributing your own experiences on my ever-growing (and always entertaining) “Listener’s Stories” mix. I hope that hearing others’ stories about “the years between being hip and breaking one” makes your own journey feel less solitary, and gives you reason to feel good about being the age you are – WHATEVER that is.

At the end of the day, if things have gotten too serious to celebrate our wins, we’ve already lost the fight. And I am not going down that easily, so I’m sharing this win with all of you who have helped the podcast find its audience.

Thank you from the bottom of my sticky, concert-orthotic shoes!

*Pours one out for Ruth*

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                  Related StoriesFeeling 100 GrandZero For FivePandemic Punch Down 

Ep 82 TueNight.com Founder Margit Detweiler

“Inquisitive, interested, exploratory”: Margit Detweiler on the motivation behind multimedia “grown-ass lady storytelling” platform TueNight.com, lessons she’s learned about patience and perseverance, and THE must-play GenX slumber-party game.

TueNight.com
Still in Rotation: Young Americans – Margit’s essay on Midlife Mixtape
This Is What the American Dream Really Looks Like – Nancy’s ode to her FIL on TueNight
How Do I Feel About a Midlife Crisis? Whatever – the TueNight essay that led to the Midlife Mixtape Podcast – hear Nancy read it in Episode 1!

Some choice Rick Springfield in honor of Margit. I choose this because if you ever needed to summarize the ‘80s to a space alien, this would be the right video to show them.

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the Midlife Mixtape podcast – check him out here!

The post Ep 82 TueNight.com Founder Margit Detweiler appeared first on Midlife Mixtape .

                   
CommentsIn reply to Laurie. Or maybe she wasn't sure you'd listen ... by Nancy Davis KhoRick Springfield was my first concert at age 15 – fun ... by LaurieRelated StoriesEp 78 – Listeners’ Gen X Childhood Summer StoriesEp 81 What Do You Wish You Could Tell Your Younger Self?Ep 80 “Home-Baked” Author Alia Volz 

Ep 81 What Do You Wish You Could Tell Your Younger Self?

“You have everything you need”: In this special episode, Nancy rounds up advice from past guests in answer to the question, “What do you wish you could go back and tell your younger self?” Purpose-built for pandemic listening.

Full list of past Midlife Mixtape episodes available here
SiblingRevelryProject on Instagram
Ep 50: Listener’s Advice to Younger People In 2019 I asked the Midlife Mixtape audience what they’d tell people younger than them…hear their good advice, like “don’t sled backwards,” right here!

This song always brings me joy, and it’s full of good advice too.

“Even if you’re old and grey…you’ve still got something to say”

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the Midlife Mixtape podcast – check him out here!

The post Ep 81 What Do You Wish You Could Tell Your Younger Self? appeared first on Midlife Mixtape .

                  Related StoriesEp 80 “Home-Baked” Author Alia VolzEp 79 Musician Teddy ThompsonZero For Five 

Ep 80 “Home-Baked” Author Alia Volz

photo: Dennis Hearne

“A family of raconteurs”: Alia Volz on her new memoir “Home-Baked: My Mom, Marijuana, and the Stoning of San Francisco”, her parents’ pioneering cannabis business, industry evolution from dealing to healing, and maturing right along with our parents.

Alia’s website
Find Alia on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter

That first concert: When an actual sweet child was crushing on a guy singing about a Sweet Child

The post Ep 80 “Home-Baked” Author Alia Volz appeared first on Midlife Mixtape .

                  Related StoriesEp 74 Educator and Author Jessica LaheyEp 79 Musician Teddy ThompsonEp 78 – Listeners’ Gen X Childhood Summer Stories 

Ep 79 Musician Teddy Thompson

“Better command of my voice”: Singer/songwriter Teddy Thompson discusses and shares songs from his new album Heartbreaker Please, provides a suggested cocktail pairing, and recalls a life-changing concert with his grandmother.

Teddy’s website
Find Teddy on Facebook and Instagram
Support the work of the NAACP and Southern Poverty Law Center
The musician behind the Midlife Mixtape theme music, M. The Heir Apparent http://thisismxoxo.com/

Throwback video from Teddy that never fails to put a smile on my face. Peep the Rufus Wainwright cameo.

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CommentsIn reply to Loni. I'm so glad you stopped by to check out the ... by Nancy Davis KhoSuch a great interview but I've been in love with Teddy since ... by LoniRelated StoriesEp 75 Poi Dog Pondering Frontman Frank OrrallEp 78 – Listeners’ Gen X Childhood Summer StoriesEp 77 Journalist Otis Taylor Jr. 

Zero For Five

There’s a piece of paper stuck to the wall next to me here in my office, something I printed off in January. I do this every year, right after the holidays: make a list of five big goals for the coming year and put them where they’re just one small neck swivel away, reminding me to stay on track, make progress, keep on keepin’ on in that solitary home office.

As of today, I am zero for five on my goals. Up top for failure!

I guess I made some progress toward a few of the goals in the first sixty days of the year, but those were just baby steps laying groundwork for what was going to be a superproductive, supercharged Annus Excellentus. My book was published, the kids were thriving in their respective colleges, the podcast was picking up steam.

My plan was to have an exciting speaking career about the importance of gratitude which would allow me to travel! Which would make it easy to visit my elderly mom on the East Coast and be helpful in this phase of her life! I would even start on a new book!

Yeah. Nope.

In place of any of those things happening, here are my five actual accomplishments since shelter-in-place began on March 16th:

I am aware of birds now. I guess the hummingbirds and robins and scrub jays have always been flitting through the trees that give Oakland its name, but I didn’t have time to notice them on my way out to the car to go to dinner, drinks, concerts. Now I sit outside on my front porch – more in the past four months than in the previous 17 years of living in this house combined –and I stare into the trees, and the trees are full of birds. When I see an owl, it’s like I’ve won the Super Bowl. There is a hawk that likes to perch in the neighbor’s tree across the street, and I sometimes provide commentary to my family about what s/he’s up to, during family dinner. Like the hawk and I are old friends who have just caught up.
I have caught up with old friends. Why did it take a pandemic to nudge me into hourlong Zoom calls with people who I love and miss and haven’t seen in a decade? The chance to actually see them when I talk to them is *kisses fingers* and, I’m pretty sure, was possible before 2020, but we never used video calls. We spend a lot of time complaining about our hair and how desperate we are to see a hairdresser, and the other person always says, “No, you look great, I like the gray!” or “I think the longer hair suits you, and who says dark roots can’t be flattering?” It reminds me of when I first met these friends in high school or college or grad school and we took turns pumping each other up. There’s a reason these friends stuck around.
I have a Protest to-go bag. It’s in the kitchen, a little backpack with granola bars, a first-aid kit, hand sanitizer and an extra mask. One never knows when one will be told, “We’re meeting at Mosswood Park for the #BLM Dance Protest, bring your sign” and one must be prepared to use oneself as a White Lady Meat Shield* at any time. (*It’s a Jackie Kashian bit from Two Dope Queens and I cannot find the video anywhere, but believe me it’s the perfect analogy.)
I can add “Facilities Manager of Office Park” to my LinkedIn profile. The conversion of my solitary home office into part of an Office Park that includes satellite offices of a bank (husband/kitchen), a solar engineering firm (eldest daughter/bedroom) and UCLA (youngest daughter/roaming) was completed, under duress and with one rushed round-trip drive to Los Angeles to empty a dorm room, by March 23rd. I provide my fellow office park workers with morning coffee and nightly dinner and in return, they wash dishes, fold laundry, and put up with my lingering hugs that would, in a regular office setting, definitely be construed as harassment.
I am still upright. Today, anyway.

I don’t take #5 for granted. There are days when the staying upright is the hardest challenge of all. Days when I scroll too deep into shared fear and grief on social media, allow too much of the alarming news reports to settle in, count backward on my fingers to when I last hugged my mom (seven months and counting). Video calls with my mom, who has dementia, aren’t the same as video calls with old friends, although they are better than nothing. There are days when all of that comes tumbling down. I try to go back outside and look for hummingbirds on those days, lulled to calm as their invisible wing movements hold them steady midair, preventing them from crashing.

In the process, I’ve started to finally understand the proverbial command, “Stay in the Present Moment”. I have historically been awful at Present Moments. I literally worked as a strategic planner for part of my career; I was a Type A person being paid to stay in Future Moments. People like me were thinking about the Present Moment seventeen months ago. But when the Present Moment looks nothing like you thought it would, when the Future Moment is entirely unpredictable, you’re left with just being where you are. Don’t people pay big money for meditation retreats to learn that?

I find all the gratitude science I learned about when writing my book helps with #5.  When my thoughts are spiraling about what’s going to happen to my family tomorrow or next week or next month, I try to think: where are you right now, physically? Where are you sitting? Is it safe, comfortable? Do you have food in your stomach and clean water to drink? Are you healthy? Could that be enough to be grateful for, for right now? Neural synapses, please do your thing and hold me up like hummingbird wings and help me get better at looking for the good.

I’m penciling “Be Here Now” at the bottom of my list as a goal for this year. Maybe I’ll make it to December 31 at one for six.

Here’s your song for the week, ICYMI back in April (what is time?) – Gorillaz released a new joint with Peter Hook from New Order and from the first bass note you will be transported back to 1987.

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CommentsHey, I think one for six is awesome! And hummingbirds remind us ... by ReginaRelated StoriesPandemic Punch DownLoads of DistractionsWhen Negative Recall Bias Starts to Win 

Ep 78 Listeners’ Gen X Childhood Summer Stories

“But anyway, I’m still alive to tell it”: Listeners share their favorite ‘70s and ‘80s childhood memories, from banana-seat bike rides to boardwalk employment to the educational television jingle that unites us all.

Childcare, 1972-style – thanks for sharing it, Andrea!

Throwback book recommendation from Brett – Sting-Ray Afternoons: A Memoir
Spike Lee’s Crooklyn

Don’t ever challenge a GenXer on their ability to recite the Preamble. You’ll lose. Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the Midlife Mixtape podcast – check him out here!

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CommentsThis was so fun! And I definitely second Brett’s book ... by Kristin NilsenRelated StoriesEp 71 Listeners’ Youthful ShenanigansEp 77 Journalist Otis Taylor Jr.Ep 76 Affordable Housing Advocate Fay Darmawi 

Ep 77 Journalist Otis Taylor Jr.

“Not interested in telling stories from the top down”: SFChronicle reporter Otis Taylor Jr on the media’s ability to open readers’ eyes by sharing diverse stories, the importance of local journalism, and his Kenny Chesney tailgate adventure.

Otis Taylor Jr in the San Francisco Chronicle
Bay Area Black Voices: Why I Protest – photojournalism project with Yalonda M. James
Report of the National Advisory Commission on Civil Disorders aka The Kerner Report – PDF here
Nieman Center research on Local Journalism
The Other Side of 40 Podcast

Crossing fingers Otis gets to see Long Beard in concert, in person, soon!

Thanks as always to M. The Heir Apparent, who provides the music behind the Midlife Mixtape podcast – check him out here!

The post Ep 77 Journalist Otis Taylor Jr. appeared first on Midlife Mixtape .

                  Related StoriesEp 76 Affordable Housing Advocate Fay DarmawiEp 75 Poi Dog Pondering Frontman Frank OrrallEp 74 Educator and Author Jessica Lahey