The Underground Girls of Kabul Quotes

“When one gender is so unwanted, so despised, and so suppressed in a place where daughters are expressly unwanted, perhaps both the body and the mind of a growing human can be expected to revolt against becoming a woman. And thus, perhaps, alter someone for good.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“No group can be truly suppressed until its members are trained and convinced to suppress one another.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“When I asked Afghans to describe to me the difference between men and women, over the years interesting responses came back. While Afghan men often begin to describe women as more sensitive, caring, and less physically capable than men, Afghan women tend to offer up only one difference, which had never entered my mind before.
Want to take a second and guess what that one difference may be?
Here is the answer: Regardless of who they are, whether they are rich or poor, educated or illiterate, Afghan women often describe the difference between men and women in just one word: freedom.
As in: Men have it, women do not.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Someday in our future it may be possible for women everywhere not to be restricted to those roles society deems natural, God-given, or appropriately feminine. A woman will not need to be disguised as a man to go outside, to climb a tree, or to make money. She will not need to make an effort to resemble a man, or to think like one. Instead, she can speak a language that men will want to understand. She will be free to wear a suit or a skirt or something entirely different. She will not count as three-quarters of a man, and her testimony will not be worth half a man's. She will be recognized as someone's sister, mother, and daughter. And maybe, someday, her identity will not be confined to how she relates to a brother, a son, or a father. Instead, she will be recognized as an individual, whose life holds value only in itself.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Those who control life, and the bodies of women, control the money and hold the power. Women who are kept indoors, cannot make money and will not hold any power.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“France implemented a law in 1800 that said women could not wear pants; it was not formally removed until 2013.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“I believe most Afghan men, on an individual level, are far from extremist or fundamentalist.
Hope rests with those men, who control what happens to their daughters. Behind every discreetly ambitious young Afghan woman with budding plans to take on the world, there is an interesting father. And in every successful grown woman who has managed to break new ground and do something women usually do not, there is a determined father, who is redefining honor and society by promoting his daughter. There will always be a small group of elite women with wealthy parents who can choose to go abroad or to take high positions in politics. They will certainly inspire others, but in order for significant numbers of women to take advantage of higher education and participate in the economy on a larger scale, it will take powerful men educating many other men”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Being born with power, as a boy, doesn’t necessarily spur innovation. But being born entirely without it forces innovation in women, who must learn to survive almost from the moment they are born. Afghan women do not need much well-intentioned training on that.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Dancing falls into the same category as poetry for a woman – it equals dreaming, which may inspire thoughts about such banned topics as love and desire.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“to most students, what sets little boys and girls apart is all exterior: pants versus skirts. That, and the knowledge that those with pants always come first.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“A great many people in this world would be willing to throw out their gender in a second if it could be traded for freedom.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“It is the classic curse of organized religion—when its interpretation is hijacked by mortals as a means to control others.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“It is not just a human rights argument, it is the Warren Buffett argument and the Christine Lagarde argument: Countries that want to develop their economies and standards of living cannot afford to shut out one-half of their population. And it is the Virginia Woolf argument: In order to create, a woman needs money and a room of her own.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Louis Duprée described this contradiction in his work on Afghanistan: “Islam, in essence, is not a backward, anti-progressive, anti-modern religion, although many of its interpreters, the human, action component, may be backward and anti-progressive.” It is the classic curse of organized religion—when its interpretation is hijacked by mortals as a means to control others.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Posing as someone, or something, else is the story of many women and men who have experienced repression and made a bid for freedom. It is the story of a gay U.S. Marine who had to pretend he was straight. It is the story of a Jewish family in Nazi Germany posing as Protestants. It is the story of a black South African who tried to make his skin lighter under apartheid.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Regardless of who they are, whether they are rich or poor, educated or illiterate, Afghan women often describe the difference between men and women in just one word: freedom.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“When one gender is so unwanted, so despised, and so suppressed, in a place where daughters are expressly unwanted, perhaps both the body and the mind of a growing human can be expected to revolt against becoming a woman. And thus, perhaps, alter someone for good.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Afghanistan is a story of patriarchy, in a raw form. In that, it is also a story of Western history, with elements of the lives our foremothers and forefathers led. By learning about an ill-functioning system in Afghanistan, we can also begin to see how most of us—men and women, regardless of nationality and ethnicity—at times perpetuate a problematic culture of honor, where women and men are both trapped by traditional gender roles. Because we all prefer those roles—or maybe because it is how we were brought up and we know of nothing else.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“How old am I? Over thirty, indeed? What cream do I use on my face? How many children do I have? Really—none? They offer condolences and smack their lips over my bad luck. My husband’s family must be very upset—I am married, of course? No? Again, they offer their regrets: a great shame that nobody wanted me. They understand—it is known to happen to some girls. Usually the very ugly or poor ones. Their concern extends to my parents: They must be unhappy, ashamed even, to have an old, unmarried daughter. And the relatives, horribly embarrassed, certainly?
By now, I try to insist it may not be a complete disaster to be unmarried, but Setareh feels the need to intervene and freestyle the translation a little. She explains to the girls that, in her personal view, it is indeed a little tragic for my family. That concession renders sympathetic faces all around.When Sakina steps out of the room, questions become juicier: In the West, do I walk around almost naked in the streets? And have I “had relations” with a thousand men?”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Marriage is a core component of the patriarchal system. According to Gerda Lerner's research on ancient societies, a woman could achieve at least some status, and with that, better treatment and privileges, through preserving her only capital – her virginity – and eventually offering it to just one man.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“The responsibility for men's behavior, indeed for civilization itself rests entirely with women here, and in how they dress and behave. Men's animalistic impulses are presumed to be overwhelming and uncontrollable. And as men are brutal, brainless savages, women must hide their bodies to avoid being assaulted. In most societies, a respectable woman, to varying degrees, is expected to cover up. If she doesn't she is inviting assault.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Reputation is more than symbolic in Afghanistan; it is a commodity that is hard to restore once it has been damaged.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“The real story of Nader, Shahed, and other women who live as men in Afghanistan is not so much about how they break gender norms or what they have become by doing that. Rather, it is about this: Between gender and freedom, freedom is the bigger and more important idea. In Afghanistan as well as globally. Defining one’s gender becomes a concern only after freedom is achieved. Then a person can begin to fill the word with new meaning.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“I would love to be any thing in nature
But not a woman
Not an Afghan woman. ROYA
Kabul, 2009”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Here is the answer: Regardless of who they are, whether they are rich or poor, educated or illiterate, Afghan women often describe the difference between men and women in just one word: freedom. As in: Men have it, women do not. Shahed says the same thing, when I ask her. “When no one is the boss of your life,” is how she goes on to define it.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“As in any suppressed group, one person’s attempt at freedom can be a grave affront to the suffering of others.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“возможно, Запад больше озабочен вопросом гендерных ролей детей, чем сами афганцы. Хотя афганское общество строго основано на разделении полов, пол в детстве в некотором роде значит меньше, чем на Западе.
– Здесь, – говорит Кэрол, – людьми движет нечто более исконное. Всё, что предшествует пубертату, – лишь подготовка к продолжению рода. Здесь это главная цель жизни.
И вероятно, нам – жителям Запада, – чтобы начать понимать Афганистан, нужно отставить в сторону свои представления о порядке вещей. Там, где долгая родословная племенной организации гораздо могущественнее любой формы правления, где язык представляет собой поэзию, но лишь немногие умеют читать и писать, где для неграмотного человека обычное дело – знать наизусть произведения пуштунских и персидских поэтов и говорить на нескольких языках, истины и знания проявляются иными способами, нежели те, которые с легкостью могли бы распознавать чужестранцы. Говоря словами Кэрол, в стране поэтов и рассказчиков «важны общие фантазии».

Наличие хотя бы одного сына – обязательное требование для хорошей репутации в этой стране. Семья без сына не просто неполна; в стране, где нет власти закона, это расценивают как слабость и уязвимость. Так что должностная обязанность любой замужней женщины – быстро зачать сына. Это ее абсолютная цель в жизни, и если женщина ее не исполняет, то в представлении людей с ней явно что-то не в порядке.

Быть объектом жалости – наихудшая участь, которая лишает человека достоинства.

Суждение всегда в глазах смотрящего. А воображение афганского «смотрящего» способно пойти вразнос.

Очевидно, настолько хрупка мужская власть в этой стране, где мужчины с рождения обладают всеми привилегиями, какие может предложить общество, если мужчинам понадобилось немедленно ткнуть женщину лицом в грязь и продемонстрировать перед ней свою силу и превосходство.

Ответ на вопрос «природа или воспитание» менее противоречив, чем хочется некоторым: то, что создает человека и личность, – это, по сути, сочетание природы и воспитания.
А есть еще и вот какой неожиданный поворот: то, что «естественно» (в смысле, якобы является врожденным), не совпадает в точности с тем, что может казаться естественным. Поступки или шаблоны поведения могут казаться нам «естественными» после того, как мы много лет их совершали, потому что мозг приспосабливается или развивается в одном конкретном направлении.
Иными словами: со временем воспитание может становиться природой – второй натурой. Вот где пересекаются наука и опыт Шукрии. К ней до некоторой степени «пристал» мужской гендер, когда ее психика и тело развивались и эти переживания формировали ее личность. Ей не нужен невролог или психолог, который скажет ей то, что она уже знает: «Стать мужчиной просто. Внешность менять просто. Возвращаться трудно. Внутри есть чувство, которое никогда не изменится».

Я просила многих афганцев описать мне разницу между мужчинами и женщинами, и за эти годы у меня накопились кое-какие интересные ответы. В то время как афганцы-мужчины часто начинают описывать женщин как более чувствительных, любящих и менее физически способных, чем мужчины, афганские женщины склонны упоминать лишь одно различие, о котором я прежде никогда не задумывалась.

Хотите взять минутку на раздумье и догадаться, что это может быть за различие? Вот ответ: независимо от того, кто они такие, богаты они или бедны, образованны или неграмотны, афганские женщины нередко описывают разницу между мужчинами и женщинами всего одним словом – свобода. Примерно так: у мужчин она есть, у женщин ее нет.

Мы знаем, каково быть мужчинами. Но они ничего не знают о нас.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“The bacha posh parallels throughout countries where women lack rights are neither Western nor Eastern, neither Islamic nor un-Islamic. It is a human phenomenon, and it exists throughout our history, in vastly different places, with different religions and in many languages. Posing as someone or something else is the story of many women and men who have experienced repression and made a bid for freedom.

It is the story of a gay U.S. Marine who had to pretend he was straight. It is the story of a Jewish family in Nazi Germany posing as Protestants. It is the story of a black South African who tried to make his skin lighter under apartheid. Disguising oneself as a member of the recognized and approved group is at the same time a subversive act of infiltration and a concession to an impossible racist, sexist, or otherwise segregating system.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Women and sports are a classic conflict in a culture of honor, similar to that of war. The point of athletic events was to have women admiring male competitors from the sidelines, and later presenting the winner with his reward. The more segregated and conservative the society, the harsher the restrictions on women’s sports. [...] The real reasons for those governments’ reluctance to have women practicing sports are, of course, exactly what Nader has figured out: A woman who feels her own physical strength may be inspired to think she is capable of other things. And when an entire society is built on gender segregation, such ideas could cause problems for those who would like to hold on to wealth and power.”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan

“Women and sports a classic conflict in a culture of honor, similar to that of war. The point of athletic events was to have women admiring male competitors from the sidelines, and later presenting the winner with his reward. The more segregated and conservative the society, the harsher the restrictions on women’s sports".”
― Jenny Nordberg, The Underground Girls of Kabul: In Search of a Hidden Resistance in Afghanistan