CC’s Reviews > Artificial Condition > Status Update

Murderbot is genderless, so it's been interesting to see which gender people want to assign it. My brain wants to say male because of the audiobook narrator.

I didn't read the first book on audio, and somehow murderbot just felt like a she to me. Not sure if it's because I projected the author's gender onto the first person pov. Now my brain is hurting from trying to adjust to the narrator's voice.

Though I guess technically, murderbot should be referred to as "they" in today's standards? I also don't exactly like the sound of "it".

To me, Murderbot "felt" male and I guess we're both projecting. Complicating matters further: "it" is Murderbot's self-chosen pronoun which for me, too, felt uncomfortable. It all added to my enjoyment, though. :-)

i found "it" and "they" appropriate given murderbot's personality

I agree with you that Murderbot seems feminine. I've been using she/her since /All Systems Red/. (view spoiler)[Also ,in /Network Effect/, Mensah's daughter Amena calls Murderbot "Third Mom". She's joking, but the joke only works because Murderbot is acting like a Mom. (hide spoiler)]

I clicked on your spoiler tag, L, and saw "daughter" and immediately closed it. Looks like there are some good surprises coming up for me in the later books :)

I've been sticking to using "it" for murderbot since, like Wulf said, that is murderbot's self-chosen pronoun. But it definitely feels awkward given how "human" it sounds, and I guess humans still haven't quite accepted "it" as a gender pronoun yet.

CC wrote: "I've been sticking to using "it" for murderbot since, like Wulf said, that is murderbot's self-chosen pronoun."

I don't know why you and Wolf think that. I can't remember Murderbot ever using a third-person pronoun to refer to herself. It is true that she often, in her first-person narrative, quotes some other character referring to her as "it". But that doesn't make it HER choice.

Did I miss this somewhere?

It's been a long time since I read All Systems Red so I don't remember if murderbot has specifically requested being referred to as "it", but a quick reread of the ending shows that it used "shut it down" when referring to killing itself (although that could've been a hardcoded message), and "rejoining its beloved guardian" when telling the cargo ship where it's going, etc.

Of course, it could be that murderbot is simply going with whatever pronoun that is default for sec units (it refers to all the other units the same way as well). If someone just starts calling it "her", it'll probably be ok with that too (though it does seem very adamant about itself not being human and not having gender..)

a quick reread of the ending shows that it used "shut it down" when referring to killing itself

I can't find this in All Systems Red. The two instances of "shut it down" I find in All Systems Red are quotes from Ratthi and Bharadwaj.

I took the "its beloved guardian" remark to be Murderbot's attempt to appear submissive in order to deceive the cargo bot.

it does seem very adamant about itself not being human and not having gender..

Is it? She says "I don’t have any gender or sex-related parts", but I took that to mean "I don't have any gender-related parts or sex-related parts.", rather than "I don't have any gender, nor do I have any sex-related parts".

This whole discussion is fascinating re gender and voice. I recently listened to a pod/videocast with Wells where she got definitive about the lack of gender--particularly in light of the interviewer having trouble not using 'him.' (I tried to link, but can't. Google Wells Murderbot interview Gryftkin). I agree, CC, that 'Bot seems adamant about no gender.


It's hard for those who were well-schooled in grammar! For some reason, I've never had a problem using 'them' ungrammatically to refer to gender-vague singular.

@L "it is recommended that you discard it" is what it said. Which was an "automatic reaction", so possibly hardcoded.

I didn't think it'd be necessary for murderbot to change its pronoun to deceive the cargo bot, but anyway, murderbot's self identification is a big part of why this series is so fascinating to me in the first place, so it makes sense that everyone interprets it differently :)

@carol. Thanks a lot for sharing the pod! I'm listening to it right now (and I want to read that original short story with the sad ending)

I do wonder what murderbot would think of this discussion. Given how much it hates pretending to be human, I wouldn't be surprised if it cares absolutely nothing about pronouns and thinks we are talking complete nonsense here :p

Ah, just got to the point where the author said "pronouns are for humans"...

carol. wrote: "she got definitive about the lack of gender
That is true.

particularly in light of the interviewer having trouble not using 'him'
Huh. I didn't hear her objecting to his choice of pronoun at all. She made the comments about Murderbot's gender in repsonse to a direct question from him, not in response to his use of the masculine pronoun. She ignored that entirely for at least the first 20 min.

Interesting she says here that Fugitive Telemetry comes before Network Effect. That confused me. The Goodreads page for the series has them in the wrong order.

CC wrote: "I do wonder what murderbot would think of this discussion. Given how much it hates pretending to be human, I wouldn't be surprised if it cares absolutely nothing about pronouns and thinks we are talking complete nonsense here :p"

I'm sure you have that right.

I have to say, after listening to that interview, it is completely clear to me that Murderbot has not chosen "it" as her/his/their/its pronoun.

Ok, re-reading things, you're right, L: Wells chose "it" for Murderbot - so self-chosen is debatable, indeed. cf. https t.ly/a_ua

It was really weird to listen to the audiobook. I was able to accept Murderbot as being agender fairly ok in print, but it's weird that the narrator's voice adds a layer of interpretation just because he is a person and not a murderbot. I can't think of another audiobook that has had this dilemma.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like there was a scene in one of the books where ratthi or one of the others asks Murderbot what pronoun it prefers. I have shitty memory but I feel like a scene like that definitely took place? (view spoiler)[also during Network Effect doesn't muderbot 2.0 use "it" to refer to murderbot 1? (hide spoiler)]

Urwa wrote: "Correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like there was a scene in one of the books where ratthi or one of the others asks Murderbot what pronoun it prefers. I have shitty memory but I feel like a scene ..."

I just searched the six main novels plus Home: Habitat, Range, Niche, Territory for the word "pronoun" in the kindle app. It does not occur. So if that conversation happened, it happened without the use of the word "pronoun".

(view spoiler)[I thought of that, too, once before when we had this discussion. But I have been prevented from checking it out by a lack of industry. (hide spoiler)]

Clara wrote: "it's weird that the narrator's voice adds a layer of interpretation just because he is a person and not a murderbot"

That's nicely put! Maybe I should read the rest in print instead. My experience with the first book was much better not on audio.

Urwa wrote: "I feel like there was a scene in one of the books where ratthi or one of the others asks Murderbot what pronoun it prefers."

I'll keep an eye out for that while I read :)