Sun > Status Update

Well, NIkki and the others are genius. It's convoluted as hell. I think it probably wasn't hard to figure out he was full of shit if you cared to look, but to figure out how it all played out had to be a tremendous amount of determination and sleuthing.

I actually still don't understand a lot of it and after a day or two, I am giving up so that says even more about the tangle web that had to be untangled, inspected, recorded and reported all under combat like conditions.

Dani wrote: "Dani, you don't want to litigate that kind of accusation on the internet. You need an attorney, like asap. Not even kidding here.

just fyi:

From a vox article:

No state classifies “groping” as e..."

Oh, I'm aware, and believe me that I'm going to get a lawyer asap. Unfortunately, this all happened over a weekend or I'd have one already. What she's doing is libel and defamation. I KNOW she's lying, and she knows it too.

She's already accused the organizers of GRL of all kinds of things and threatened to sue, but it didn't happen. Regardless, I'm going to speak with a lawyer. I'm not going to let this go. I'm well and truly pissed off.

To everyone who keeps asking these authors and riptide how did you not know? didn't you know their legal name? may I please point out that the legal name of whoever wrote under the Santino Hassell name is completely f*king irrelevant?

The problem here is NOT that Santino was a fake name. The problem is that the people behind the Santino name:

- defrauded many people with lies about cancer
- exploited intimate details of peoples lives gained under false pretenses
- used that intimate knowledge in SHs books
- used that intimate knowledge to frighten their victims into staying silent
- turned friends against each other with lies

And I'm sure there's some other stuff I'm forgetting.

Knowing Santino Hassell's true name has ZERO relation to whether or not they knew the people behind SH were doing any of this stuff.

So please just drop it, and base your judgements of these people on how their own actions and stop worrying about who knew SH's real name.

Personally, I'd like to know which of the scumbags I was actually talking to in our IMs but unless SH comes clean which I really don't expect, I'm going to have to accept that I'll never know just who it really was I spilled my guts to.

Lisa wrote: "~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "MostlyDelores wrote: "How could you possibly write off a person's claim that they were groped?

What if Vanessa claimed it happened, because... it h..."

Lisa, regarding your former roomate: holy hell, what a despicable individual.

I had a colleague who did the same thing a few years back. I wasn't in any way involved, but when her performance became abysmal and she was constantly skipping work, she knew she was going to get fired and accused the director of HR of sexually molesting her. The poor guy was Indian, and she made some vile racist statements.

But that wasn't enough. She accused basically every male around, from the IT guy who hid in the basement and showed his face twice a year to a doctor at the employee clinic to the CEO!

It was completely OTT, and she was fired. She threatened to sue, tried to break into the clinic even, but nothing ever came of it because it was all lies.

Sandyco wrote: "P.S. You can call me morally bankrupt, because I'm still a patron. I want the last two 5B books. I really am just there for the books, and it's unfortunate that this is the only way to get them, bu..."
I wasn't going to say anything, because I doubt that I could sway your moral opinion one way or another, but I hope you're willing to pay out the nose for the next 5B books, because apparently the way that Hassell has things set up now, it's going to cost you around $25-$40 total to get the next book (North Shore).

https://twitter.com/katehellman/statu...

So, you know, you do you, I guess?

Daniel wrote: "To everyone who keeps asking these authors and riptide how did you not know? didn't you know their legal name? may I please point out that the legal name of whoever wrote under the Santino Hassell ..."

+1

The pseudo name has no bearing on any of this.

Optimist ♰King's Wench♰ & MANTIES Champion wrote: "Shanen wrote: "I am in awe of Nikki. Give her a couple days and she will figure out this whole Trump/Russia thing. I say that with the utmost respect :)"


I know! She should apply at the CIA or FB..."
mmm hmmm.... I found Nikki because I happened to see VN going off about some blogger following her. I couldn't retrace the path I took to her but I found her, spent an hour wide eyed. Trump did something stupid so I forgot all about it until this thread was posted in the group I'm in. I've never been in the IN but all of you really are pretty incredible <3

Daniel wrote: "The problem here is NOT that Santino was a fake name. The problem is that the people behind the Santino name: ..."

Agreed

Heather K (dentist in my spare time) wrote: "Lisa wrote: "~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "MostlyDelores wrote: "How could you possibly write off a person's claim that they were groped?

What if Vanessa claimed it happened, be..."

Hug. Same here, Heather. I disconnected more than a year ago.

Daniel wrote: "To everyone who keeps asking these authors and riptide how did you not know? didn't you know their legal name? may I please point out that the legal name of whoever wrote under the Santino Hassell ..."

I get that the legal name doesn't matter to the Santino Hassell bullshit for Alisha/Marvin and their gross catfishing, etc.

However, if Megan or any of the other cronies knew that Alisha (playing the part of PA/roommate) and Marvin (playing the face of Santino) knew that Alisha and Marvin (playing the part of Santino) were actually married then their claim that they never lied or deceived for them is false, 100%. Lying by omission is a lie. He said over and over he was a SINGLE man, raising kids by himself. Any support of that, knowing he was married to Alisha is a big deal. I don't know if that can actually be ascertained but it's an avenue that interests me.

So, if getting to the root of that questions seems unimportant to the Santino Catfish issue, you're right...but not to the posse.

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "And there are still people who eat at Chic-fil-A (that disgusting homophobic and racist organization) cause they make good chicken. Some people really are that selfish.

If you still in any way support SH or his posse, you are entirely complicit in the bullying and harassment. I'm sure the Five Boroughs series will be available in Hell for your reading pleasure. "

TELL IT!!!


Jane wrote: "I don't get the people who are willing to overlook everything to read the books. It's sad when an author doesn't finish a series through lack of inspiration or ill-health/death, but when all is said and done, there are a zillion books out there. Minor blip in life, not a tragedy.

And in a case like this, where every word carries the taint of abuse and deceit, I just couldn't. No matter how much I'd enjoyed the previous ones, no matter how eagerly I'd anticipated the new ones, after this? Not a chance in hell they'd make it onto my e-reader. I'd feel dirty reading them, complicit even."

That's because you have a heart, Jane.

There are many who will now know, and there are those who will be forever lost.

~✡~Dαni(ela) ♥ ♂♂ love & semi-colons~✡~ wrote: "MostlyDelores wrote: "How could you possibly write off a person's claim that they were groped?

What if Vanessa claimed it happened, because... it happened? You cannot choose to disbelieve her jus..."

Dani, I've said so before but maybe my comment here was lost and you didn't see it, but I believe you and I hope this horrible situation will resolve itself asap! These false accusations are inexcusable, especially in times of #metoo, and are the reason why the sincerity of so many real victims is questioned. I'm sorry, I should have PMed you :( Please stay strong and don't let her win! ~big hugs~

JenMcJ wrote: " knew that Alisha and Marvin (playing the part of Santino) were actually married then their claim that they never lied or deceived for them is false"

I get that that matters to people. But lets say author A knows the legal name of SH, be it Alicia or Marvin, doesn't matter. Author A meets Alicia and Marvin, has dinner, goes on a trip, whatever.

There are 2 huge flaws with the idea that this means Author A will know they're married.

A. Plenty of people keep their own names when they marry.

B. Alicia and Marvin are pathological liars. Was author A supposed to be checking their passports? Whichever person's legal name Author A knew, Marvin or Alicia, they could easily lie about the partner's name as they did to many of us online, over and over again, for years.

Daniel wrote: "JenMcJ wrote: " knew that Alisha and Marvin (playing the part of Santino) were actually married then their claim that they never lied or deceived for them is false"

I get that that matters to peop..."

I sustain that a a married woman with young children MAY have a problem with her spouse if she goes on vacation with a "single, bisexual, fuckboi'.

Or maybe I'm just that old fashioned. Whatev

I'm not in any way involved in this dreadful mess, but it's not my first time at the catfish rodeo, and I am painfully familiar with the 'shoot the messenger' tactic (and am thus cynical about some of the authors offering pious words in support because they've been the shooters in past situations.)

I don't maintain a blog any more, and am not 'in' with any publisher or clique, so I can have little influence, but I put a message in support on my page here a couple of days back because there are never enough ways to warn potential victims of people like this

https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...

We need to stop elevating 'real gay men', stop treating authors selling books and asking for money as our dearest friends, and apply healthy scepticism.

If something looks too good to be true, it's probably false.

We need to stop supporting publishers with repeat histories of hiring and publishing abusers. Riptide needs to sack Sarah Lyons aka Sarah Frantz immediately for being a sexual predator and enabler. She wasn't just Hassell's editor.

We need to stop listening to sob stories from authors who repeatedly abuse readers and victims in support of fellow authors, who then turn around and issue fauxpologies which make it all about their poor, hurt feelings.

Readers, protect yourselves. Authors are selling you something - even I am. Use your heads, not your heart. If we weren't good at convincing people of emotions, spinning believable yarns, we wouldn't be writers.

Be sceptical. Keep us at arm's length. Don't donate to sob stories of people who you don't know. The m/m world has shown itself unworthy of your trust, and sadly, you must not trust it.

I also told my co (and in reality, only active) reviewer at Outlaw Reviews I'd be removing any Hassell reviews. Turns out we didn't have any, but she did have two on her Kindle, and would have reviewed them.

My heart goes out to the victims here, especially Nikki and Sakura and Dani, because I've been in their situation and I know what it's like screaming into a void, with no one listening and being called every name under the sun for trying to reveal the truth.

I feel for those few gay men writing m/m who have endured abuse for speaking out about this, or are enduring disbelief and intrusive questions about their private lives because female m/m writer just can't stop playing stupid role play games with their lives.

It's unspeakable that young people were groomed and their lives mined just to provide spank bank material for a couple of sociopathic grifters.

And I am sorry so many readers were duped, abused, and harassed. This is an atrocious, criminal business.

Be vigilant, be safe. Be wary in future. Please, for all your sakes.

Fabi wrote: "I sustain that a a married woman with young children MAY have a problem with her spouse if she goes on vacation with a "single, bisexual, fuckboi'."

LOL. True. Of course, maybe Marvin was SH and Alicia went everywhere with him because she knew how untrustworth he was.

Ref: Megan Erickson ...

Someone wondered if her latest statement was a change of heart. Not to stir the hornet's nest, AT ALL, but I'm thinking it isn't a change of heart at all but rather a change of tactic! I suspect she is realizing that professionally speaking, if she doesn't write a remorseful statement, she will absolutely destroy her own career!! As far as I'M concerned however I'm done with this author [and other authors who've acted similarly], I will never read another one of her books again! Nope, I don't trust her, not at all #Blacklisted #TheListUnfortunatelyContinuesToGrow :-/!!

This might sound cynical and unforgiving, but hey, that's because IT IS :-/! I don't know, this just smacks of a career oriented chess move and I'm very unimpressed! I don't get the feeling there's any heart or truth in her statement. None :-/!! #TotallyDone!

It's a bummer because she truly is a wonderful author :-/! But there are so many other truly wonderful M/M authors out there who're truly deserving of the readership and support, and THEY are the authors I'll definitely be investing in :-)!!

That's all, just my $0.02 :-)!!

Lyra wrote: "Sandyco wrote: "P.S. You can call me morally bankrupt, because I'm still a patron. I want the last two 5B books. I really am just there for the books, and it's unfortunate that this is the only way..."

Yes, I do know. If I'm willing to pay the price, that's on me, isn't it? However, I may not be a patron much longer, anyway. I first became aware of the depth of all of this two weeks ago, and I found it so incredible and unbelievable that I didn't put any more thought to it. Except that I kept going back to those tweets, and I wasn't rereading any SH books like I usually do. Fast forward to last night, and I tried to read one. It was a disaster, because certain passages reminded me of everything that has happened. Maybe it takes me longer to process information than most people, but I'm getting to the point of canceling my Patreon, because if I can't bring myself to read the books, why stay and put more money in their pockets? I thought I could be heartless enough to separate what has happened from the books I so wanted to read, but that may not be possible. And I loathe them (SH) even more now for taking away my enjoyment in the books I've already read.

Daniel wrote: "Fabi wrote: "I sustain that a a married woman with young children MAY have a problem with her spouse if she goes on vacation with a "single, bisexual, fuckboi'."

LOL. True. Of course, maybe Marvin..."

I was referring to ME. But, yeah, yours is a good point too. Although I suspect it was more that she was brains of the operation.

*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "quite a change of heart?"

Ref: Megan Erickson ...

Not to stir the hornet's nest, AT ALL, but I'm thinking it isn't a change of heart at all but rather a change of tactic! I suspec..."

I think everyone needs to do decide for themselves whether to believe a person and their apologies or not and so far from what I've seen, I am with you on ME.

PS Luckily, ME is not my favorite author. The only book I read of hers was a DNF and 1 star for the part read.
Furthermore.... that reminds me, that particular dnf and 1 star coincided with some unpleasantries. I wish I remember what it was, but it forever changed my mind about even trying to attempt reading ME books in the future.

I left a couple of SH books and a couple of ME's but removed my positive reviews and deleted the ratings. SH books were good, but I would not contribute to high ratings. SUCH a frigging waste of talent! TRUE SHAME this.

Elena wrote: "EmilieSA wrote: "The way I understood the post was that we couldn't argue, not that we couldn't present facts, but please do let us know if/when they answer you. Seeing that strong signal rec is ki..."

Thank for getting clarification on that, Elena. I haven't been back on that thread, but if it's still there next time I see it, I'll post the link to the mod's statement.

Thank you Bianca!

https://youtu.be/xWR2ox63co8

Shelby wrote: "Fabi wrote: "Torres?"

So, if her legal name was Torres, that could potentially explain not knowing they were married even while knowing their legal name."

@Jen
Sorry, I'm on my phone so I can't look for it right now and link to it but Alicia filed a lawsuit (sorry, I'm German so I don't know if that's the right term) under her name Alicia Torres claiming stalking around Oct 2016 I think. If I'm right, that's when Nikki started to investigate. The file is on her Twitter account. You can also find the marriage license there, I think.

And yes, Nikki needs an award for all this. I wouldn't have even known where to begin.

Fabi wrote: "Thank you Bianca!

https://youtu.be/xWR2ox63co8"

It's the least I could do. I'd recommended Santino's books in other videos. Edited those out and figured sharing information would be a good way to use the platform. xoxo

Тамрико wrote: "*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Thebomb wrote: "quite a change of heart?"

Ref: Megan Erickson ...

Not to stir the hornet's nest, AT ALL, but I'm thinking it isn't a change of heart at all but rather a cha..."

Yup! Though I believe it goes without saying that everyone must decide for themselves! I am of course speaking ONLY from my own perspective and assessment!! Furthermore, I certainly have NO desire to try to convince anybody, this is just MY opinion!!

It’s sadly ‘funny’ how so many statements keep changing o__O!!

Since quite a few authors are now on my personal Blacklist, I'll say I TOTALLY hear you on what a shame it is for such raw and wonderful talent to go to waste :-/! And SUCH a waste it is ... there are quite a few authors now who fall under this assessment!

Though I have to say, while I get that SH was considered talented, the few books I've read really weren't my cup of tea. I wasn't a fan. At the time, with all the stellar reviews and recommendations, I decided to give the author another chance, "went big", and purchased quite a few books :-/! *** Now I'm thinking F*CK! ***
This of course was a long while ago and LONG before I had ANY inkling of what was going on!
I purchased the books from Amazon and can no longer return them, so I suspect there will be a day - a long time from now - where I'll at least honor/respect my money spent [I don't want to just throw it the books away. I already see my money as wasted on people who do NOT deserve it by any stretch, and so to throw the books away, to ME would be like adding insult to injury.It'd be a double loss], and will read the books! I will definitely NOT review or rate the books [I don't want ANY part in recommending or encouraging anyone in purchasing their books at all]. I DO want to respect my hard-earned money though :-/! I'll try to dismiss the knowledge that the books were written by such vile, reprehensible, deplorable individuals, and will just see the books as the books they are, AUTHORLESS! I look upon the books as having NOTHING to do with these people and have, in my mind, disassociated the books from them entirely! It's not the books' fault these people wrote them :-/!!
Such a shame indeed #PoorBooks!!

Hi again. I've been trying to find the entry about LA Witt's hubby Eddie and his FB post in which he trashed the victims. Someone said it had been deleted. Well, the Internet is forever. Jenny Trout tweeted it out (RT'd Nikki's tweet) and she has 18,000 followers.

https://twitter.com/Jenny_Trout/statu...

CJane

You would think, that at some point, some of these people would remember that the internet is indeed forever. Yet every time........

Hi All...

https://pipervaughn.wordpress.com

This is a bit of a diversion, but, just feeling curious, I ran an analysis of the (largely positive) reviews of Strong Signal that are on Amazon, using Fakespot review analyzer, and the result gave the reviews for that book a D grade, saying 43% of the reviews were "low quality", which means probably fake. That made me curious so I ran the analysis for Fast Connection—48.4% "low quality" aka fake reviews. I have not done the analysis for any of the other SH or SH+ME books (enough is enough), although I do use Fakespot to analyze many reviews before purchase, especially if they are unusually laudatory.

@*~*~*Kael*~*~*

I don't know about you, but I am an addict where it comes to M/M or a slightest hint of bromance or even a simple male comradery (currently reading Captain Blood books).

Over the years, I collected so many books, I am afraid I need two more lifetimes to finish them all. SH and ME are not the only authors I spent the cash on only to be heartbroken in the end and mourn my money.

I probably won't delete their books, but I won't read them to justify my money either. Not unless I run out of everything else to read :P

Once again, this is my personal choice. Whatever everyone else does is their business. I am not them and I can't possibly know what their feeling are on the subject. I guess as long as people don't rate, recommend or promote SH's books in any way, whatever they do in the privacy of their own house .... stays in their house.

Just some clarification since I was one of the people asking for lists of authors supporting SH.

I do NOT want the list as a blacklist! I wanted it as a list of people to look into/follow for a bit to see where they stood on the issue.

I fully understand that many, though maybe not all, of them had little or no understanding of what was really happening. SH is obviously a master manipulator and I have no reason to believe they weren't equally as manipulative to people who met them in person.

In no way do I think it's fair to blacklist someone for defending/supporting SH in the beginning, but I do think the method of that defense is something they should be held accountable. I don't want to blacklist authors for maybe/maybe not knowing about SH, I am going to work under the assumption they were just as manipulated as everyone else, but I do want to see the way they came to SH's defense because some of these methods were simply not acceptable and I find to be grounds for blacklisting on their own no matter where they are on the situation as a whole.

This also causes me a bit of a dilemma about co-authored works. I have decided, personally, to not let the situation affect my views on co-authored works unless the co-author is one of the people blacklisted for reacting to the situation in a way I found inappropriate. For this reason I will NOT be removing my reviews of ICOS because I fully support Ais and would rather give some partial support to SH than to in any way harm someone who doesn't deserve it.

@Coltostallion

Thank you for this! I followed some links yesterday and today, and I have to say the language, the attitude that was used by those who humbly apologise today is simply not acceptable. After all the nasties those apologies just don't cut it.

Coltostallion wrote: "This also causes me a bit of a dilemma about co-authored works. I have decided, personally, to not let the situation affect my views on co-authored works unless the co-author is one of the people blacklisted for reacting to the situation in a way I found inappropriate. For this reason I will NOT be removing my reviews of ICOS because I fully support Ais and would rather give some partial support to SH than to in any way harm someone who doesn't deserve it. "

Co-authored works are rough. Like, I think most people agree that Ais doesn't deserve to be punished for Hassell's wrongdoings (so I wouldn't personally remove a review of anything Ais had coauthored if I had already read any of Ais's coauthored work, although I might edit it to include a link to Riptide's statement, but I haven't, so it's moot anyway), but like, I bought Strong Signal a while back and hadn't gotten around to finishing it, and regardless of where one falls on Megan Erickson, there is just no way I can read that book anymore. Just. No. Way. The book is too tainted by what Hassell did to coauthor it.

*~*~*Kael*~*~* wrote: "Ref: Megan Erickson ...

Someone wondered if her latest statement was a change of heart. Not to stir the hornet's nest, AT ALL, but I'm thinking it isn't a change of heart at all but rather a chang..."

I read and enjoyed Megan Erickson's debut book (m/f) and have been following her career for awhile, picking up various books by her over the past several years. I really wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt here, though the screenshots chronicling how she met "Santino" and her early interactions with Alicia and their plans for collaboration gave me a sinking feeling that she hasn't been completely innocent in this situation. When she slipped up in a reply to a tweet a few days ago, mentioning that she knew Santino was married and had a wife, that's when it really hit me that she knowingly had contributed to bolstering Santino's deceptions and fraud: she knew "he" was not a single bi father desperately afraid of "his" employer finding out "his" sexual orientation.

I am disgusted she went along with this and let all of her readers mistakenly believe Santino was truly one of the rare "own voices" writers in the genre. I suppose money won over morals. She was not really a well known author in the m/f romance world, but in m/m, aligned with Santino, she became very popular.

I've been anxious all weekend to see if she'd issue an updated statement to replace her previous dismissive, victim-blaming statements and all of that "forget I exist" and "leave me alone" BS. Her updated statement from this evening was woefully inadequate and clearly just an attempt to try to be able to continue writing full-time as a career. She did not take any responsibility for her role in this massive deception, nor did she address any specific, valid questions people have had about what she actually knew.

I consider myself to be a forgiving person. For instance, Amy Jo Cousins' apology came across as genuine, so I will probably continue to read her books. However, Megan Erickson's statement is a desperate attempt to stop her readers from fleeing and yet another ploy to gain their sympathy. If she were truly sorry, she'd offer to refund or donate the profits from the co-authored books. At this point, I have absolutely no qualms about asking for refunds for all of their self-published, co-authored books. Amazon will deduct that money directly from what they pay out to them and can even give a negative royalty statement.

Тамрико wrote: "@*~*~*Kael*~*~*

I don't know about you, but I am an addict where it comes to M/M or a slightest hint of bromance or even a simple male comradery (currently reading Captain Blood book..."

To say I absolutely ADORE and LOVE M/M would be an severe understatement, so yes, the adoration for M/M is most definitely real! Ha!!

But yeah, as far as I'm concerned I I felt like I threw away my money the minute I found out WHAT I spent my money on [i.e. SH and all the other authors who fall in line with his reprehensible, deceitful, deplorable way of thinking and doing]!! BUT, to throw the books away [being unable to refund them] would be like throwing away my money twice :-/! Like I said before, I now see these books [like animals taken away from their abusive owners] as authorless, I see the books themselves as having absolutely nothing to do with the unfortunate reality of who wrote them :-/! When I read them at some point far in the future, I will genuinely try to enter a headspace where I'll have theoretically dismissed/eradicated the knowledge of who wrote them, JUST so I can see the books as isolated books with an incredibly unfortunate origin :-/! I'm going to TRY not to penalize the books themselves [because again, I'm trying to see it as not the books' fault - so to speak - that they were written by such despicable characters, ironically enough]!! I'm going to look upon the books, whenever I get to them [again, in the distant distant future], as not being connected to whomever wrote them! With disassociating them completely, as far as I'm concerned, SH, ME, and all their cohorts absolutely no longer exist!! #VotedOffTheIsland!
I couldn't possibly express how MUCH I am against them and everything they've done and stand for!!

So again again :-P, all the above said, I will most definitely NOT be updating, reviewing, or rating them in any way, shape, or form!! More importantly - this definitely goes without saying but I'll emphasize it again anyway - I will most definitely NEVER purchase anything from these authors ever again!! Nope, never, completely done!! I vehemently adamant in that!!

That's really all I have to say :-)!!


ETA as a general side note: And of course I'll emphasize again that my opinions are MY OWN and are legitimately right for ME [ME as in me, not as an acronym - Haha], and I don't expect others to necessarily share or follow the same opinion. So yeah, ONLY speaking for myself :-)!!

In case of Megan Erickson, INTERESTINGLY, I read her M/F New Adult books first before she written any M/M. And I loved those books. I interacted with her once or twice through Twitter.

Personally, I thought she was nice before ... it was after she co-authored with Santino Hassell I thought she changed. I actually DNF'ed the first book of their works, and when I tried her latest book, it wasn't satisfying (I gave 2* for it, which for me was not good).

I read her statement, and I really wanted to give her benefit of a doubt. I mean, I think I saw Susan also said that during her time with Santino's company, she hadn't been a good person. So maybe, MAYBE, Megan finally saw the error of her ways.

The only other author I will not bother is Vanessa North. Sorry, but I saw her being so vicious against an author who is just trying to make way to the genre. In my point of view, she has never been a good person. So disregard her making any personal statement of this issue, I already unwilling to read any of North's books. And of course now I saw Dani talked about her behavior too.

@*~*~*Kael*~*~*

Let me refer you to Tamara's review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

So... while I do not want to delete SH and ME books for money and other reasons (I am Cancer, can't just don't let go of my possessions easily, it's bordering OCD, I know), I doubt I will ever read them, and Tamara's review is exactly the reason why.

Tamara, I hope you don't mind my link.

Daniel wrote: "To everyone who keeps asking these authors and riptide how did you not know? didn't you know their legal name? may I please point out that the legal name of whoever wrote under the Santino Hassell ..."

Agreed

If the story they told was that he was bi and they were poly, as they seemed to imply at one point, i could see people who were close to them in person being particularly protective of their privacy.

We keep forgetting that the closer you are to people like these, the harder it is to see through the manipulation and gaslighting.

http://facebook.com/karenstivali/post... Again with this minimising bullshit. KS didn't just "vouch" for SH - she actively gaslit, talked trash about, and blocked the people who SPOKE THE TRUTH. She called them "trolls" and "assholes". THERE ARE SCREENSHOTS.

http://meganerickson.org/statement-an... No apology for calling people who told the truth "doxxing scum"? She didn't just "defend" her friend.

Тамрико wrote: "@*~*~*Kael*~*~*

Let me refer you to Tamara's review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

So... while I do not want to delete SH and ME books for money and othe..."

The link is to this [Susan's] thread and Riptide's statement! I've read Riptide's statement but I am still very slowly but also very diligently (and with great care) working through this entire thread!!

I really said all I had to say on the topic though :-) ... we both have our opinions, I've stated very clearly where I'm coming from [and with how I've very specifically stated how I see the books; how I'll work hard at mentally disassociating them from their authors, and will NOT refer to them on GR, anywhere else on social media, OR in my private life for that matter; like I said, they NO LONGER exist to as far as I'm concerned], I of course definitely view my opinion - for myself - as a truly legitimate one! I'm definitely coming from a sincere/pure/genuine point of view!!
I will also

The same goes for you in that you have a right to your opinion and how you see things, and have a right to do what's right for YOU!!

What's most important to remember is that we are most definitely fighting the same good fight :-)!!

Just FYI, Shams still has over 300 patrons. I'm guessing they're the ride or die fans but here's a way for everyone to shut down that source of income for them w/step by step instructions: https://twitter.com/SantinoHustle/sta...

I removed my reviews for SH books-- its awful to even imagine what it must have been like for Noah and others to discover their private, personal RL moments in a book and then to see them commented on by reviewers, too... UGH. I am so saddened by this. Hugs.

Let's not fight against us whether we will still support their co-authors or not, shall we? Like Kael said, what's more important is to remember what we are fighting for.

I can TOTALLY understand those will never, ever, EVER, buy/review/promote Santino's co-authors. I will probably do the same if I'm in their position.

But I also love some of those authors works, and I still try to find it in my heart to give them benefit of the doubts. Like Elsa said (on Twitter), the choice is personal and we may have to do what feels right for us.

Right now, what feels MORE IMPORTANT for me is HOW to make Berkley/Intermix to drop the rest of the Barons books, and St. Martin Press to cancel the release of the Single Dad's Club books that Santino (or Alicia or Marvin, whatever their name is) has been contracted to

How can we bring this matter to the "bigger" mainstream publishers?

Tez wrote: "http://facebook.com/karenstivali/post... Again with this minimising bullshit. KS didn't just "vouch" for SH - she actively gaslit, talked trash about, and blocked the people who SPOK..."

Ugh, still with this : "I was ready to die on the hill of authors not needing to disclose their entire personal life and I still believe that."

Once more, for those in the back: no one thinks authors need to disclose their entire personal life. But if you're going to be putting your personal life out there, don't be surprised when people start noticing and questioning any inconsistencies! SH invited just this, when they spoke out so often about the illnesses and the drug use and the single parenting and so on and so on. No one asked for this, they put this out there. When they pulled people into their "friend circle", only to cast them aside when they outlived their usefulness, or when they dared to ask questions or criticize, they invited these questions.

This isn't about readers prying into author's lives, it's about expecting to either be told the truth, or to be told nothing at all.

Jax wrote: "If there is all this evidence of fraud and bullying towards respected members of the Goodreads and m/m blogging community , why are so many people still supporting him? What is so appealing about S..."

This is a good question! I love ICoS, but as more books came out I thought, let me guess, another good-looking, snarky, grumpy guy with addiction issues? But, I was as hooked as the next fan on the social media, mainly as a lurker. This is all a crazy cluster-f. I'm saddened and disheartened by SH's meanness and greed.

Bitchie wrote: "Tez wrote: "http://facebook.com/karenstivali/post... Again with this minimising bullshit. KS didn't just "vouch" for SH - she actively gaslit, talked trash about, and blocked the peo..."

^^^THIS^^^

Shared some of what happened with a big YouTube/BookTuber. Hoping to get a bit more exposure. My channel is new, and while having a video is great, someone with an even bigger platform covering it would definitely make an impact.

Big publishers respond to big pressure. Mass emails, petitions, and other things that gain a lot of attention will have them reacting, I think.

If this is forgotten in a week, they won't do anything because it won't hurt their bottom line. Sad but true.

Optimist ♰King's Wench♰ & MANTIES Champion wrote: "Just FYI, Shams still has over 300 patrons. I'm guessing they're the ride or die fans but here's a way for everyone to shut down that source of income for them w/step by step instructions: https://twitter.com/SantinoHustle/sta..."

That's a solid right there. Thanks for the link.

I understand and support readers' and reviewers' decision to no longer purchase or promote SH's work. His actions caused extensive damage to individuals and to the members of the mm community who looked to him as a promoter of own voices within the genre.

What worries me, though, is that collective memory is extremely short. In a few months very few people will know that this whole debacle happened. It's true that Dreamspinner and Riptide will no longer be distributing his books, but by erasing all history of the author's existence in blogs and GR reviews aren't we leaving the door wide open for people to continue to look for his books in libraries and book stores? Doesn't removing all mentions of SH make it easier for them to move to a different publishing house or genre and come back in their next incarnation? Aren't we all being complicit in helping them sweep everything they've done under the rug?

I don't have an answer, but I'm wondering whether it might not be a better policy to keep all of the review pages up and edit them to explain why the original review was redacted, that the book is no longer being published, and then link to the publishers' page. I feel that the more mentions of this incident there are out there in the world the less likely it is to be repeated in the future.