Sun > Status Update

Ariadna wrote: "Amazonaute wrote: "I have been following all this for the last week or so. I’ve read SH’s books, but knew nothing else about his whole community and fandom, other than noticing his huge patreon sup..."

Thanks Ariadna.

Sandyco wrote: "Are any of you differentiating between what a co-author knew? For instance, it's one thing to cover up the author's identity (one half of a married couple posing as the author at cons) vs. covering..."

This is part of what I’m trying to get a handle on.

@Amazonaute - the catfishing was going on long before "santino" started publishing for money. his original reputation was mostly based around free online fic.

Which of them wrote actually wrote the stuff is unclear to me. I've read references to screenshots of IP addresses and stuff that show the santino persona colocated with Alicia when Marvin/Mike was supposedly in texas, but haven't seen it.

Ultimately which of them wrote what is a minor quible at this point. It's pretty clear from the sh*t apology, that the entity known as santino is more worried about evading any possible legal implications of accepting gifts/money while lying about cancer than actually owning up to any harm done.

I am ok with deceptive pen names. I am undecided about authors play acting a false persona in public forums as "marketing". But the bright red line for me is when the interaction between author and anyone, reader, other author, random forum member, crosses over into private spaces, and said author maintains that false persona (and in this case doubles down on it) and proceeds to build some relationship on it, then that author is a sack of sh*t.

Whether that author exploits personal details gained through that relationship in their fiction or not, it is wrong.

Whether they accept gifts, or money, or any kind of help based on a fictional need or not, it is wrong.

Keeping your real name secret: No problem. Building a whole fake persona and then entering into intimate personal relationships based on it is just sick, and disgusting, and evil, no matter whether it's done for profit or not.

Fabi wrote: ""A business" can refuse a customer their premises and even their products to some extent. A business can refuse to engage in a verbal battle with a customer.

A business cannot, without repercussions, insult, demean, or otherwise attack a customer."

Bingo.

An author can choose to not engage. They can even boot people out of their groups, block them, etc. if they choose - although certainly I can understand some will be miffy about that too, understandable. They can choose who they do, and do not, interact with.

But they cannot, while maintaining an appropriately professional attitude and behavior as should be expected in interactions with readers, customers and fans, is engage in any sort of personal attacks, insults, negatively discussing people, etc., in the public sphere.

And if they do they cannot reasonably expect their business will not suffer for such unprofessional behavior.

When interacting with the public online, most especially when interacting in the book realm, using their published name - whether that's their real name or an pseudonym - they are operating as a business and speaking as the head of their business.

Evelia wrote: "You all might be right to be so offended by all the alleged lying and posing from this author but the truth is I will keep on reading what he/she writes because he/she is one of the best I have fou..."

Evelia, an added issue is that there is evidence - statements from a few people, that SH mined their lives and traumas as bases of those books you like so much. Without their permission.

Pia wrote: "I'm not sure if this has been posted yet (I apologise if it has been, I may have missed it!), but for folks like Jann who want a collated site of much of the evidence thus far (not updated to include DSP's statement etc) including links to all of the receipts (including some I hadn't previously seen), this has been pretty amazing:

https://thesaltminers.tumblr.com/post...

It doesn't include the 'apology' post by SH (most classical fake apology ever) nor many other more recent developments."

Here is part two:
https://thesaltminers.tumblr.com/post...

You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat...

Co authors and author friends not just knew. They actively participated in the gaslighting of people trying to speak. Which in itself allowed the abuse and the manipulation of SH to continue.

They are not innocent in this.

And it’s not just from years ago.

I can’t speak for anyone else. But I was blocked, talked about, subtweeted and ridiculed by plenty of them just last year and in 2016. I always mentioned in my reviews when their unprofessional behavior bothered me. And my comments and screenshots from my bookshelves (pretty identifiable, a lot of them in Spanglish) were always casually mentioned by them or talked about after Ed tweeted them.

So no. I can’t excuse them. I can’t accept their Hassellpologies.

I don’t doubt that some of them may very well be victims. Totally.
But they were still authors speaking from positions of power, in the platform that represented their business and thus had a lot of reach, speaking in an unforgivable way about readers.

Not to mention everything they contributed to allow for the people who were abused for years to be kept silent. On the fringes. Never believed. Posed as something they were not. Publicly. To be dragged and dragged through the mud. Bad mouthed by authors with thousands of followers.

That’s just not right. Not any way. Not excusable.

Noah wrote: "Thank you, Susan, for creating this thread. You have no idea how much it's meant to me to see so many stories and people that make me feel less alone in what happened to me.

Also, thank you to eve..."

Noah..........nothing but love. <3

Daniel wrote: "@Amazonaute - the catfishing was going on long before "santino" started publishing for money. his original reputation was mostly based around free online fic.

Which of them wrote actually wrote th..."

I totally agree. I just want to get a full picture of the whole thing. .. How it went on for so long, how many people were fooled, how they were fooled, what’s the deal with people who, (as Ariadna explained) went on holidays with Marvin...

The mining of peoples stories, trauma and pain for SH’s books went a long way in explaining the maintaining of the persona, as well as raking in the cash through lies.

Mónica wrote: "Co authors and author friends not just knew. They actively participated in the gaslighting of people trying to speak. Which in itself allowed the abuse and the manipulation of SH to continue.

They..."

That's what bothers me too, especially when it comes to Piper Vaughn, Roan Parrish and Avon Gale. I can't see how I could trust them, when they made the silence possible around SH's behavior. I'm not saying they actively participated in the abuse - I don't really follow authors' lives, and I only started reading them this year - but even if they didn't, their silence feels very much like complicity in my eyes.

Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

Meredith King from blog Diverse Reader
https://www.facebook.com/DiverseReade...
Screenshot from the comments below the FB post by Meredith King


edit: Sorry, I only know how to post pics here

Francesca wrote: "This morning I was going to write about the so called "apologies" pouring out of the "squad".
Rarely have I seen so many versions of excuses dressed up as apologies from the "man" himself to chief..."

Exactly. The faux apologies are even more insincere when they are done from within spaces that have the people owed the apologies blocked.

Susan wrote: "I love that this thread is still going on, keeping the conversation alive.

I am frustrated by these statements by people close to Santino Hassell.

They are "tired". You know who's tired? Those ..."

Everything here x100

Noah wrote: "Thank you, Susan, for creating this thread. You have no idea how much it's meant to me to see so many stories and people that make me feel less alone in what happened to me.

Also, thank you to eve..."

*big hugs*

Uh oh. Someone's slipping up.

https://twitter.com/Nina_Paulette78/s...

Alexandra wrote: "Fabi wrote: ""A business" can refuse a customer their premises and even their products to some extent. A business can refuse to engage in a verbal battle with a customer.

A business cannot, withou..."

Everything said by Alexandra is exactly what bothered me in the first place. Authors are speaking from a position that intrinsically entails a certain business responsibility. Any author/reader relationship is tied and bound by what should be a professional standard from the author.

Evelia wrote: "You all might be right to be so offended by all the alleged lying and posing from this author but the truth is I will keep on reading what he/she writes because he/she is one of the best I have fou..."

Regardless of receiving gifts or claiming to be sick, these stories are not SH's. They are stories that were garnered from other people through emotional manipulation, by creating falsehoods in order to nurture sympathies in order to create false bonds. They took others pain, and turned it into prose in order to build profits.

The books I read by SH, I enjoyed (excluding the later books in the 5B series). But, now knowing the deceit, betrayal, the abuse that contributed to those books, no matter how wonderfully written they may have been, they will be forever tainted in my eyes. If I ever felt moved to go read them again, I would find myself thinking, "which private conversation did this line come from", "who's private moments were laid bare on this page".

Evelia wrote: "You all might be right to be so offended by all the alleged lying and posing from this author but the truth is I will keep on reading what he/she writes because he/she is one of the best I have fou..."

Isn't lovely to read this from someone who has zero friends, zero books, zero reviews and just opened an acc?????

Josy wrote: "Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

Meredith King from blog Diverse Reader
https://www.facebook.com/DiverseReade......"
I got my refund :)

Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

But where is the $ from the refunds coming from? Amazon? Riptide? Dreampinner? I doubt it's coming from SH's pocket. Not that I'd feel bad getting my money back from Amazon, but I wouldn't want them to turn around and ask the money from the publishers.

https://twitter.com/_renoliveira/stat...

Ok, I wasn't about to comment but here we go. I really hope I can articulate what I want to say with the right words, because my goal isn't to upset any of the victims. It really isn't.

I wasn't close to SH or the rest of that space. I read the books, followed them on twitter when I had the time. Heard about the "doxxing" accusations but I'll be honest, I didn't have the time to look on either side of the fence. I should have, but I didn't. I thought the way he was responding was borderline (again, remember I read the tweets SOMETIMES, in passing) but I didn't look further. I thought maybe he was right, after all we've all heard about the crazy fans right? But again, I was wrong, and I should have looked. I never defended him and I don't think I would have if I had been more involved because I didn't like the way he responded, but the truth is, my life was busy, I thought it wasn't my drama because I didn't have the info and didn't have the time (or will) to look for them. I regret it. I deeply do, but it's too late and I'm sorry for it.

Now I want to comment on this whole thing because I have been manipulated before. By someone I was really close to. Someone I loved. Someone I thought, at times, I would maybe marry some days. And so, though my experience I want to give my thoughts (without demeening anyone else's. It's just MY take, it doesn't invalidate you if you think dfferently, but I believe we can share and have a conversation here).
When I discovered SH's books, I loved them. I really liked the personna on twitter as well and even went on patreon, for a month. Maybe it's because it happened to me before, or maybe it's because I don't trust anyone, but something felt...wrong and I pulled away. It was nothing I could point or put my finger on, I don't even think I did it consciously. After 2 weeks on his patreon, I unsuscribed. I told myself at the time I was just busy, didn't have the time to read his things so why pay for them. I also thought it was a lot of money for a patreon. Anyway, I didn't know anything about the cancer or anything else, I was just aware of the "bi dad with kids". Now, in the lights of everything, of course I think I should have dig deeper and said something. My guts knew and I did nothing. I'm terribly sorry for that.
And I'm saying this not because I want to be forgiven or anything, I say this because I know I'm not the only one in this position. I know I'm not the only person who didn't look because they didn't have the time, because they thought it wasn't their drama, etc. To all the victims, I'm sorry. Deeply sorry. We should have done better and we should have been better people. I'm not naive enough to believe it will never happen again, but I WANT to believe that for the people here, for the ones involved, for the ones discovering all this and feeling shocked and ashamed, for people like me who just didn't take the time, because of this we'll do better in the future. We'll think twice before following someone blindly. We'll look at both sides before coming to a conclusion.

But I also wanted to talk about the other authors. His co-writers. His friends. I understand why you're upset about the apologies (or non-apologies), but I also believe that most of them (I can't vouch for all, and wouldn't anyway.) genuinely didn't know and thought they were doing the right thing; I know for someone who hasn't lived through this before, it's really tough to understand how someone who's close can not know, but that's how manipulation works. I was in love with someone who told me they had been married, that their wife had died in a car crash, that they were estranged from their parents and I BELIEVED it. I slept with this man, spend a lot of time with him, knew his friends. I never questionned it, why would I? I loved him, I trusted him. If he said it, I wasn't about to go and check. Why would someone lie about that? But of couse I could have looked at his past, look for legal paperworks, ask more about his parents. But when you're manipulated, when you TRUST, you don't see the lies. And the deeper you're involve, the more you care, the less you see them. I'm not excusing the bullying or how some of them treated other people. I'm just saying, maybe, at least some of them might be victims as well. And of course the apologies aren't enough, or good enough, or well written, but it's really hard to realize someone you thought you knew was a lie. To realize months of your life were nothing but manipulation. It's devastating. It's humiliating. So, I understand why it is upsetting, I really do. But I also wanted to say, give them time. The benefit of the doubt. Don't excuse the bad behaviors, but I think most of them genuinely thought they were defending a friend. Wouldn't you defend your friend if THEY told you they were attacked and distressed? What would be your first reaction? Again, I'm not excusing it! I'm just saying, let's be honest, a lot of people do bad things thinking they're doing it for the right reasons. That doesn't change the fact what happened is horrible, and that doesn't justify anothing SH did. There's a special place in Hell for people like them. I'm only talking about his friends, his "inner circle." If he coud manipulate so many fans, why do you think he couldn't also manipulate fellow writers? So of course they need to own up to their mistakes and they need to apologize for the wrong their did. But for some of them at least, I do believe they were also manipulated and it's difficult to make public apologies when your life unravels under your feet. When you realize months of your life have been lies. When you realize you turned into a bad person for what you thought were good reasons. When you realize someone you deeply cared for was a fraud.
I'm not excusing the bad behavior, I'm defending the fact that if they genuinely didn't know, then I'm not surprised they're pulling away. I'm not surprised the apologies aren't good.
I hope they'll apologize in the future, because the victims deserve it. I'm just saying, I believe some of those friends, some of those other authors were also manipulated.
I heard countless time that I should have known, that I was stupid for believing, for not knowing. What an idiot I was! So just...yeah. I couldn't not say anything.

All that again, because it is important doesn't change how the bullying from their part was wrong.

And I'm not even gonna touch on the stuffs SH did because fuck them.
To the victims, I'm sorry. Really sorry. I know what it feels like to realize you have been catfished, have been manipulated. Shared your most private with someone who used it against you. I'm sorry because I know what you're going through, how difficult it is, how life changing it is. I'm sorry because "he" took something from you, your trust and faith in people. I'm sorry for the feelings "he" imposes on you. The shame, the anger, the injustice of it all. Please talk to people, YOU are not to blame. YOU are not idiots for believing in someone. YOU did NOTHING wrong. You gave your best to someone who ruined it. You don't deserve this, and I'm sorry. It shouldn't happen to anyone, ever, and I'm sorry it happened to you. I promise you'll get through it. Be kind to yourself, give yourself time and the right to feel whatever you need to feel. None of your emotions are wrong.
ANd for the ones who shared their stories, thank you. You're incredibly brave. I'm sorry if we failed you in the past. I'm sorry I failed you by not looking deeper and not paying attention.

(ok, that was a long rant. It is difficult to find the right words...)

Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

Has anyone tried returning SH audiobooks to Audible? I would love to have my credits back!

Mónica wrote: "Authors are speaking from a position that intrinsically entails a certain business responsibility. Any author/reader relationship is tied and bound by what should be a professional standard from the author. "

Exactly.

And any claims of equity regarding any bad behavior on the part of any reader(s) is utter BS crap. Please everyone, don't fall for that.

Even if/when some reader(s) are unreasonable, or post personal attacks, or whatever, and even when we may think it's wrong, that still is not equal to, nor does it justify, authors doing it.

Because it's the author who is in the position here of a professional, speaking on behalf of their business. THEY have the expectation of professional behavior, and the responsibility of Public Relations.

Readers, customers, fans, are not functioning in a professional capacity, and there is no reasonable expectation that they behave professionally in their interactions with authors. It's reasonable to not want to engage with them if they're abusive or unreasonable, but that's it.

And never forget who it is who truly holds the power, because I'm here to tell ya, it's the people who buy their books.

EmilieSA wrote: "Ok, I wasn't about to comment but here we go. I really hope I can articulate what I want to say with the right words, because my goal isn't to upset any of the victims. It really isn't.

I wasn't c..."

You can have your friend’s back without restoring to insults, vicious vitriol, attacks and gaslighting from your authorial platform.

Some people have mention Roan Parrish was one of those examples were the author’s friends didn’t cross an ethical and moral line. And if that’s the case, that’s commendable. It’s also an example that it’s doable.

What the rest of them did wasn’t just defending a friend. I just want that to be clear.

Mónica wrote: "EmilieSA wrote: "Ok, I wasn't about to comment but here we go. I really hope I can articulate what I want to say with the right words, because my goal isn't to upset any of the victims. It really i..."

I'm sorry if that's been said already, but did Avon Gale engage with readers in a nasty way? I don't want to give her the benefit of doubt if that's the case. Hell no.

Shelby wrote: "Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

But where is the $ from the refunds coming from? Amazon? Riptide? Dreampinner? I doubt..."

I'm pretty sure that Amazon refunds are charged back to the seller. I've seen authors whining about that before.

I’m asking here, because it seems to be the best place to do it, but Susan if you feel I’m detecting from the conversation please do delete this or anyone else tell me and I’ll take it out.

Anyone knows if this Alisha Monroe Alisha Monroe author is, you know, one of the many Santino Hassell personas?

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show...

Evelia wrote: "You all might be right to be so offended by all the alleged lying and posing from this author but the truth is I will keep on reading what he/she writes because he/she is one of the best I have fou..."

Wow, way to victim blame because people were compassionate and sympathetic towards SH because of the sad stories he created with the intent of garnering sympathy from them. Sympathy that I have little doubt was meant to be given in a way that was of monetary benefit to them you condemn not the perpetrator but the victim for being generous and trying to help an author who they also obviously admired but it's their fault for showing compassion.

By all means go enjoy your books and don't give a second thought to the fact that whether you believe it or not none of us are exempt from this kind of victimization and there but for the grace of god...

And just FYI, I have also read a lot of SH books but no more. I have no interest in reading a book by someone who is so obviously morally bankrupt.

Amy wrote: "Has anyone tried returning SH audiobooks to Audible? I would love to have my credits back!."

Audible allows returns, but they used to be a bit iffy if someone tried to return more than one or two in time frame. But, their customer service is excellent, at least the times I've dealt with them.

I suggest contacting them, explaining briefly why you'd like to return the books, which books you own and see what happens.

Shelby wrote: "But where is the $ from the refunds coming from? Amazon? Riptide? Dreampinner? I doubt it's coming from SH's pocket. Not that I'd feel bad getting my money back from Amazon, but I wouldn't want them to turn around and ask the money from the publishers. .."

I honestly don't know how this works. Maybe Riptide and Dreamspinner are withholding the last payment?

Alexandra wrote: "Shelby wrote: "Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

But where is the $ from the refunds coming from? Amazon? Riptide? Dream..."

In which case, the seller in the publisher?

Amy wrote: "Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

Has anyone tried returning SH audiobooks to Audible? I would love to have my credits b..."

I don’t think you’ll have trouble returning them.
I twice returned audiobooks (because they where in an accent that I couldn’t understand) and they never asked anything just refunded me.
Good luck

It seems to me that taking Riptide up on their generous offer for credit on the prior published books is really just allowing SH to fuck over the genre. The last thing we need is to let him drive the good indie ebook publishers into any kind of financial crisis...we don't have enough of them anymore. He was a prolific best selling author.

I get wanting to feel like you are getting something back, taking control, demanding restitution - I really fucking get it. On a large scale though, for a best selling author, I'm not sure that the outcome of that isn't going to be more of a negative impact to the whole community in the long run.

Self published books....refund away. Preorders - hell yeah. That definitely hurts SH (the publisher too but for one book, I can see them weathering that fall out) and canceling any Patreon, of course. But refunds for past published books may have unintended consequences that he shouldn't be given the power to affect.

Mónica wrote: "EmilieSA wrote: "Ok, I wasn't about to comment but here we go. I really hope I can articulate what I want to say with the right words, because my goal isn't to upset any of the victims. It really i..."

I agree with you, this is not excusable. And I did write "do not excuse the behavior". They need to own up to their wrongs. But manipulation is a sneeky thing. It can turn you into someone you hate. Doesn't make what you did excusable. It's just...so fucking easy to do wrong things when you're under someone's thumb, when you believe you're doing the right thing. When you're being validated for them.
I'm not excusing their behavior, I'm just saying I can understand what happened, if they trully didn't know. Understanding and condoning are two different things.
They do have to apologize, and I will lose respect for them if they don't. But it's been 2 days and if they were manipulated like the rest of us, then I understand why the apologies haven't happened yet. I really hope they will. I just want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Noah wrote: "Thank you, Susan, for creating this thread. You have no idea how much it's meant to me to see so many stories and people that make me feel less alone in what happened to me.

Also, thank you to eve..."

Hi, Noah. Just wanted to say that your testimony to Sakura made me cry because it was so heartwrenching. I don't know you but I want to hug you right now because of what SH put you through. You were brave to speak up and leave your name attached to it. I think you really made a difference in waking more people up to the truth.

Mónica wrote: "I’m asking here, because it seems to be the best place to do it, but Susan if you feel I’m detecting from the conversation please do delete this or anyone else tell me and I’ll take it out.

Anyone..."

Oh yeah that's Alicia

I just want to say a big THANK YOU to all those who spoke up and shared their stories. Nikki, Sakura, Susan, Jenn, Monica, Aissa, Alona, Kat, Francesca, Daniel, Noah ... I'm sorry if I didn't mention all your names, but there are so many of you with so heartbreaking stories... I want to tell you all YOU ARE BRAVE. Maybe you have your doubts, your fears, but you are my heroes. You survived. I admire you with all my heart. I hear you. And I'm with you from the moment I came upon Nikki's twitter account.

I hope that you all have by your side people who love you and support you unconditionally. And I really, really hope that one day, time will heal your wounds and you'd be proud of your scars. Because you're true survivors. Hugs <3

I just sent an email off to Riptide to see if Amazon takes the money from issued refunds from them. I don't want Riptide to have to pay for this. Seeing as Amazon's CEO is approaching becoming a trillionaire, I'd gladly take it from them though.

Steelwhisper wrote: "Fecking hell! Let me preface this with that, like several here, I do not have much of an axe to grind with regard to Hassell. After I didn't really like "Evenfall" in 2014 I merely got an arrogant ..."

Spot on Steel!!

Shelby wrote: "I just sent an email off to Riptide to see if Amazon takes the money from issued refunds from them. I don't want Riptide to have to pay for this. Seeing as Amazon's CEO is approaching becoming a tr..."

Will you let us know if and when you get a response? I want to wait for it before I contact Amazon. I really don't want the publishers to go down because of SH.
I asked Riptide to donate my share of the money they offered to The Trevor Project but I fear that if all of us return our books to Amazon as well, it might become too much for them to stomach. This is just my opinion of course.

Josy wrote: "Noah wrote: "Thank you, Susan, for creating this thread. You have no idea how much it's meant to me to see so many stories and people that make me feel less alone in what happened to me...."

Noah,..."

Yes, Noah. I couldn't say it any better. I hope you can have closure after all this. And move on to have great life!

Shelby wrote: "In which case, the seller in the publisher? "

Ah, yeah, I was thinking of cases where the book was self-published. I'd assume when that isn't the case it'd be the publisher. How a publisher would handle it from there I don't know. My guess is it'd be a deduction from the royalties due, just as a sale would be a credit. But that's just my guess.

Amy wrote: "Aeren wrote: "You can ask for a refund on Amazon
https://twitter.com/ease_dropper/stat..."

Has anyone tried returning SH audiobooks to Audible? I would love to have my credits b..."

I just had the same thought I have a lot of the his audiobooks but honestly if it's going to take income away from the narrators I don't want my money back because as far as I know none of them have an association with him other than narrating his audiobooks. I guess the only way to know for sure is to ask.

For the person who asked for all of L.A. Witt's pseuds, I found them with a quick google, but am happy to help. ;)

From the website www.gallagherwitt.com:

L.A. Witt
Lauren Gallagher
Ann Gallagher
Lori A. Witt
Diana Fyre (new one)

Josy wrote: "Shelby wrote: "I just sent an email off to Riptide to see if Amazon takes the money from issued refunds from them. I don't want Riptide to have to pay for this. Seeing as Amazon's CEO is approachin..."

Will do. The automated response does say they typically respond 48 hours , excluding weekends....though I'm sure their inbox looks anything but typical right now. Yeah, I really don't want Riptide (or Dreampress) to have to fulfill all those refunds. It doesn't do us any good in the long run if it bankrupts them.

JenMcJ wrote: "It seems to me that taking Riptide up on their generous offer for credit on the prior published books is really just allowing SH to fuck over the genre. The last thing we need is to let him drive t..."

This I can help with. It will not have a negative effect. Any publisher (any business, really) that knows what they're doing always has money set aside/slated/whatever for this kind of thing. I don't know if they're counting the books being bought with the credits as books sold (so authors accrue royalties) or as freebies to be written off, but either way they would have it covered. So you don't need to worry on that front, this isn't doing any sort of financial harm to the genre/market.

I just deleted all his books I had from my Amazon acct (most unread). I am not looking for a refund the money was gone long ago and I am sure the refund wouldn't be ultimately from SH.

Hugs to all the brave people for speaking out, hope the feedback has helped in some way to heal.

I haven't yet blacklisted any other authors as I wish to give them time but most I don't read anyway.

Thanks Susan for this hosting this thread.

Thank you so much for this thread, Susan, and for Nikki, Francesca, Angela and everyone else involved who have spoken up. I've never been a huge part of the community, just a reader who has hung around the periphery, taking in what goes on. I read ICOS and followed people who were fans of SH. I remember Susan being his friend on Twitter and then suddenly disappearing and being bad mouthed. I joined the FB group SH had with AH and remember SH about his health problems and how he was struggling financially. I remember the calls to send him gifts/money and I remember how everyone was so cliquey around him. I remember how Francesca suddenly disappeared from that group, as well as others who had previously been huge supporters of his, and it gave me pause. I remember how I was ostracized by his clique on that group for questioning him about his influences on one of his books and for leaving him a less than flattering review on that book. I remember how my posts/comments from that point on were ignored or answered with hurtful comments and it was enough for me to get the hell out and not look back. When I read the doxxing accusations, I believed what people were saying about him because I had always had my suspicions that something wasn't quite right, but I had already distanced myself from the MM scene because it was so toxic and was affecting me in a negative way, and I definitely didn't want to get involved in anything to do with SH again. But when I saw a status on someone's twitter regarding all this, I dived back in and words can't describe how relieved I am that he has finally been outed as the bullying, manipulative, toxic asshole I always knew him to be. Well done to everyone who brought him down and ensured, at least for now, he's gone from the scene and can no longer benefit from the community he has deceived.