Geoff > Status Update

And honestly, Niklas, you live in fucking Sweden, man! What are you complaining about? You don't have to live under the consequences of Trump's decisions - seems you have a lot of wiggle room to complain from afar. You have one of the strongest, deepest social welfare systems and liberalist of socialist democracies on the planet. You're not going to lose anything here, you're going to be just fine - if for no other reason, I'm fairly certain Trump couldn't locate Sweden on a map, making it all the much harder for him to launch nukes at you.

Niklas wrote: "Concerning my comment on Trump and other populists rejuvenating democracy, Marxist philosopher Slavoj Zizek offers an interesting perspective where he believes other political parties must now rein..."

Okay, but if you agree with Zizek, then you also have to embrace the marches on 1/21. Zizek is saying that he thinks a Trump presidency could radicalize the left. The fact that millions and millions felt the need to immediately declares themselves to ungovernable means Zizek was at least partly correct.

I take that back, Niklas. Even in Sweden you're going to have to deal with the societal disruptions and natural cataclysms of climate change - so you do have something at stake here.

(he's emphatically not saying, 'you know what, Trump might make a surprisingly good chief executive of the United States'; rather, that Trump-as-president would be such a flagrant obscenity it would no longer be possible to deny the crises that have long been simmering just below the surface in our society)

And re: Trump's refugee thing this morning - at what point will people like him wake up and realize exclusion from the sociopolitical sphere is what creates violent radical mentality, and inclusion in the sociopolitical sphere, feeling one has something at stake in common with society, is what can actually lessen the spreading of terrorist ideology.

Geoff wrote: "Catherine wrote: "Wow..Geoff...i had no idea that DC was so bad!!"

I meant that as a positive thing. A compliment to this city that racism won't be tolerated. I'm not a pacifist regarding certain ..."

Oh..I agree...racism...sexism even should not be tolerated...I am in NJ...so not far from you...there is a lot of dissention here too.

I am sorry I missed all the marches on Saturday. Did you attend? I was stuck at work.


As to your commeny on climate change, etc....oh and smoking and guns?!?!?..don't even getme started!!....none of these things are real?!?! Really? lol.
Honsetly...does anyone even read history anymore. The 2nd ammendment was put in place for a specific purpose...in 1700's!! That purpose is no longer necessary to today's society....he is such a moron!!

And he's on social media himself..spewing lies and yall tales....he already thinks his term is 8 years (not 4).

I just came to a realization while sitting in the park reading on my lunch hour. I want to leave the United States. I don't want to live here anymore. I shouldn't have to think about politics this much, every day. Basic things like healthcare and civil rights shouldn't be up for debate in a sane country. In a sane country, women and minorities would have more protection than firearms. In a sane country the president wouldn't be actively destroying scientific research. I could go on and on and on and on. This thread is that going on. Zizek's thing about not wanting to live in a society where the legitimacy of rape is argued - I'm feeling that all around. The horrific politics here cannot be kept at bay by art or friends or family. It is in the air like a poisonous gas. Imagine what I could accomplish if I didn't have to wake up every morning and have all of this on my mind! Think of the time wasted thinking of these things. Imagine living in a country where you didn't have this, where you could live your life without constant, heavy existential crises at every turn. The lies and the violence and the ignorance and the apathy. The George Carlin quote earlier was right - the country is lost, and it was lost before Trump. Trumpism is just the last bit of dirt thrown on the grave. I want out. I want a nice, calm socialist democracy where I pay taxes to be free of the torment of every political step being an existential crisis, a trap door to the apocalypse. I want to live in peace and have peace of mind to create and love but I'm not sure that's possible in the USA. America is a monster, and you don't live with a monster.

Geoff wrote: "I just came to a realization while sitting in the park reading on my lunch hour. I want to leave the United States. I don't want to live here anymore. I shouldn't have to think about politics this ..."

well that sounds like the end of this thread.

I was going to leave a semi-positive link. oh well

I won't be leaving (much as I would like to from a purely personal POV) ... family and friends tie me here, and I guess we'll all go down together

Ted wrote: "Geoff wrote: "I just came to a realization while sitting in the park reading on my lunch hour. I want to leave the United States. I don't want to live here anymore. I shouldn't have to think about ..."

No no no. I'm probably just venting. But waking up every day to new chaos, new bullshit, new lies, new regressions - imagine not having to deal with that. Imagine being able to wake up, make breakfast, not check the news, because not much probably happened, go to work for awhile, come home, make music, see your lover, etc. and not have to worry how your government is accelerating the end of the world! And that you have to somehow stop them!

I mean, I am probably just unrealistically venting - but really, imagine living in a country where politics were relatively innocuous. Wouldn't it be amazing? I'd probably read and write so much more, make so much more music, have much broader conversations - existence wouldn't be dominated as much by the threat of doom. It would be nice. But yeah, I probably can't leave the States.

Geoff wrote: "imagine living in a country where politics were relatively innocuous"

I don't think such a country exist, not on this planet anyway. But it's said the happiest people is the one of Buthan. Check out the books of Linda Leaming.

Geoff wrote: "I mean, I am probably just unrealistically venting - but really, imagine living in a country where politics were relatively innocuous. Wouldn't it be amazing? I'd probably read and write so much mo..."

The problem is is that the threat from the US is a threat to the World. Look at how many non US people, myself included, are on this thread and are very frightened by what is occurring. Plus then you also have to give a shit about the crap going on in whatever other country you move to (and all of them are full of crap). Living in the UK right now with Brexit and all the rest of it is bloody horrible in and of itself.

Oh yeah, word - i'ma move to Buthan - looks perfect!

I do also nurture monastery fantasies - like, living in silence in the southern alps in a monastery for awhile. But I'd still stay all secular of course. And read dirty books while I was there.

Geoff wrote: "I mean, I am probably just unrealistically venting - but really, imagine living in a country where politics were relatively innocuous. Wouldn't it be amazing? I'd probably read and write so much mo..."

Also, speaking as a former ex-pat during late days of GWB, the sphere of American influence is such that you can't escape it. The turmoil and the bleakness. National policy in America reverberates like gravitational waves through all matter of global news and politics. Further, this brewing nationalism doesn't seem isolated--in fact, I think my first strong fears of it began with the rise of the Golden Dawn party in Greece when their economic crisis began in 2009. It has spread across Europe and now landed ashore. We, obviously, haven't seen it on the level of Brexit and Trump in the EU, but it's at a simmer. Just wait for the impending global recession to energize the sentiment.

We should be clear about what's going on with Trump and the Republican party: this is a procedural coup. Allegations of massive voter fraud continue, with Trump suggesting we will "strengthen" our voter laws. They say Trump says what he means, but the dog whistle is blowing "voter disenfranchisement." I'd say I don't understand why his supports can continue to support him, but I earnestly believe that they would prefer to have a dictator they 100% agree with than a democracy that contrasts their views some of the time. Welcome to the new United States of Avarice.

Geoff wrote: "Oh yeah, word - i'ma move to Buthan - looks perfect!
I do also nurture monastery fantasies"

You can combine the two an move to a (Buddhist) monastery in Buthan, like this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paro_Ta...

Guys guys! That's it! Let's all pool our money together and buy a plot of land in Buthan and start a literary/artistic utopia - but as per Dr. Strangelove, in the interest of furthering the species once the outside world apocalypses itself, I'm gonna have to implement a "10 fetching women for every one man" policy in my commune. It's just practical.

Tempting. But I'd rather stay put and witness how it's all going down the drain.
I wouldn't wait too long. Surely there are many people thinking of Buthan right now. Go there before they build a wall.

Matt wrote: "Tempting. But I'd rather stay put and witness how it's all going down the drain.
I wouldn't wait too long. Surely there are many people thinking of Buthan right now. Go there before they build a wall."

The Buthanese Trump has to be only an election cycle or two away.

Geoff wrote: "The Buthanese Trump has to be only an election cycle or two away. "

No elections there. It's a constitutional monarchy.

Hm, I've definitely recently had feelings of, Jesus Christ, I just don't even want to be part of human civilization anymore (seeing that statistic about 8 people having as much wealth as 50% of the global population, corresponding with this boy in prison, etc)

Other times though, I have to say, I still find it incredibly enjoyable to be alive and live in this country.

Humanity still might have the chance to salvage something from this wreckage, and failing that one can always try and find god.

Scarlett Johansson was at the women's march - she seems decidedly dissatisfied with the current order - think she'd come along to Buthan and be part of my harem er, I mean, political refugee asylum arts commune?

IF she agrees, I might reconsider.

Matt wrote: "IF she agrees, I might reconsider."

See, incentives. (Plus, I'd probably grow some high-grade kush to, you know, pass the time pleasantly in the mountains.)

David wrote: "Hm, I've definitely recently had feelings of, Jesus Christ, I just don't even want to be part of human civilization anymore (seeing that statistic about 8 people having as much wealth as 50% of the..."

David, if this is because of the 10-1 women-men policy, we can make accommodations.

Geoff wrote: "I just came to a realization while sitting in the park reading on my lunch hour. I want to leave the United States. I don't want to live here anymore. I shouldn't have to think about politics this ..."

There are no 'sane' countries (nor, as has been pointed out, any outside the ambit of the USA).

[This is ultimately because 'insane' policies, and even many actually insane policies, are mostly the result of a combination of well-intentioned do-gooders (who weight different goals differently from you, or have slightly different predictions about things than you do), apathy, and small and inevitable acts of personally beneficial collaboration - rather than the result of cabals of demons or confederacies of dunces. None of this can be escaped from. The problems of politics are, in various guises, universal problems, because they arise inexorably from the struggle of diverse populations to distribute limited goods and freedoms in an inherently imperfect world.
Of course, with political harmony as with other forms of wealth, some places are richer at some times than others...]


By the way, I'm always fascinated when Westerners say they can't stand the insane policies of Western politicians and then say they want to leave the West. Have you looked at places like Bhutan? Bhutan has spent the last few decades conducting ethnic cleansing on an incredible scale, targeted at a minority that by some counts had reached 40% of the total population. There may not have been mass killings, but there was mass expulsion and the burning of homes. Schools have been closed, and members of the minority barred from higher education; tens of thousands exist as stateless persons, formal non-citizen non-people with no access to the law or to state services. It's as though Trump overnight ruled that everyone with Mexican heritage, and anyone with Portuguese, French or Italian heritage for good measure, would simply become "illegals" tomorrow, and withdraw all government services from them. This is why one sixth of the country's entire population has fled to the United States alone in just the last decade. Everybody in the country has to abide by a government-mandated dress code designed to eradicate the cultural traditions of minorities. Christian churches are illegal, and proselytization and prayer gatherings are illegal, punishable with severe jail sentences - only Buddhism and Hinduism are permitted publically, and Hinduism is very much given second-class treatment, controlled by the State through an umbrella group that membership of is compulsory, and reports of harassment of and discrimination against non-Buddhists. Hindu organisations are required to work to promote a "Buddhist ethos".
Political criticism, spreading disaffection and being rude about the king are all illegal, with prison terms up to a decade long. The internet is sporadically censored to block immoral conduct or rudeness about government officials. Half of all journalists in the country report having been threatened by the government. NGOs are severely restricted if they try to do anything on behalf of the minority, or on behalf of gay people. Laws against rape are generally not enforced in rural areas, and gay sex is illegal. Slave labour is also widely practiced, despite theoretically being illegal. The country is also incredibly poor.

And actually, it's a pretty liberal place, on a worldwide (or historical) scale...

Oh Wastrel I don't know if you read the thread following that but turns out I was just kidding.

And Buthan may have its problems, but anywhere I'm cozying up with Scarlett Johansson and a huge spliff is alright with me. (I love the direction we've taken this thread...)

Geoff wrote: "David wrote: "Hm, I've definitely recently had feelings of, Jesus Christ, I just don't even want to be part of human civilization anymore (seeing that statistic about 8 people having as much wealth..."

I actually already live in a sexual utopia ; )

Geoff....I am right there with you on the next plane out! I cannot stand this country anymore. I know there are evils everywherr, and the US is in everyone's back yard, so to speak, but anywhere must be better than here, and quite honestly, I am surprised Canada has not already constructed a wall!!!

Oh..and you definitely need women at your propsed commune...otherwise..how would you repopulate?!?!

David wrote: "I actually already live in a sexual utopia ;)"

Oh yeah. San Francisco. You're good then.

Catherine wrote: "Geoff....I am right there with you on the next plane out! I cannot stand this country anymore. I know there are evils everywherr, and the US is in everyone's back yard, so to speak, but anywhere mu..."

Again, I didn't really mean it. I was just kind of venting. Except for my ScarJo/Buthan scenario. I'd leave for that.

The Post, again, comes through with 11 things Trump has done in the first 100 hours being under-reported that we need to pay attention to. Hope you guys can see this cuz it might be behind a paywall. Spoiler, they're all terrible and terrifying.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/p...

Also, Republicans "adopted a rule designating records created, generated or received by a member’s congressional office “exclusively the personal property” of that member and granting members “control over such records.” - Essentially, the records can no longer be subpoenaed!

So much for cleaning up Washington! Read this article and try to hold that vomit back in your throat!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...

"How ironic that Republican-controlled congressional committees have relied on statutes such as FOIA and the Federal Records Act to fault the practices of then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, yet members have cloaked themselves in an impenetrable secrecy that allows them to escape public accountability."

That, Geoff, is the puzzle!! They are so adamant to see full disclosure on anything about anyone...but when it comes to their own information...no one is allowed to know....it is all a big secret.....

Can you say Dictator?!?!! Soon we will be bowing and scraping at his feet. No one is allowed to see the web page for the White House anymore....the official one that was there for rhe public to view. The press has been gagged, exxept dor those he deems favourable to him....so iI am sure we will see a lot of rants...papers are all going to be sued...we will all get misinformation...literally only what he wants to publish. It is a shame...as freedon of the press is what keeps them in check....but now he will have free reign.
And as for his immigrant laws....how does he think this country was founded in the first place!!! He soesn't wven know what he is spewing out!! His wife is a foreigner...and he is most certainly descended from them...or dis he just "hatch" from the earth here!!!

Was listening to this again this evening and realised it may be the appropriate soundtrack to the foreseeable future...

https://youtu.be/UeSVu1zbF94

(and god bless those people who do these youtube videos with the score...such a wonderful treat)

Geoff wrote: "Oh Wastrel I don't know if you read the thread following that but turns out I was just kidding."

I assumed the specific mention of Bhutan was kidding, yes. But I thought that the general points were worth making:
- there is no politically ideal place on earth; such a place is impossible;
- even under Trump, the USA will remain one of the freeest, most liberal, most progressive places on Earth (and even more so for some parts of the US, thanks to the protections afforded by the federal system);
- freedom isn't a binary thing, but a very long continuum from paradise to hell; a lot of Americans seem to have woken up to the fact that they're a little less close to paradise than they've been telling each other in recent years, and many have overreacted by assuming this means they're now in (or imminently headed toward) hell; in reality, they're still in a very advanced and privileged position. That's not to say that there should not be alarm at the fact they've elected a pseudo-fascist. But panic is neither necessary nor helpful. Pendulums swing. Slow the swing in this direction, and push it harder when it's your turn again.

[of course, this isn't only an American thing. In the UK, we went through our own version of this six months ago, and probably will be headed back into it once the current 'phoney brexit' phase passes]

Pendulums don't just swing, my friend. Catastrophes happen. What exactly do you think is the magical, guardian force that will necessarily keep one from occurring in the 21st century?

Your faith in continuums and averages seems a little panglossian, is all I'm saying. History is also filled with inflection points and radical ruptures. There are a whole host of problems facing civilization right now for which it's hard to see any simple, easy solution. And the new president of my country has made that possibility even more distant.

Wastrel wrote: "Geoff wrote: "Oh Wastrel I don't know if you read the thread following that but turns out I was just kidding."

I assumed the specific mention of Bhutan was kidding, yes. But I thought that the gen..."

You are right, and I think now in the US we're trying to figure out when we should be panicking or when we need to be taking things in stride - right now it seems like total panic isn't really that extreme of a response. Things are moving very quickly in definitely bad directions here.

David wrote: "Your faith in continuums and averages seems a little panglossian, is all I'm saying. History is also filled with inflection points and radical ruptures. There are a whole host of problems facing ci..."

This is my overriding feeling too, thus my despair and rage.

Jonathan wrote: "Was listening to this again this evening and realised it may be the appropriate soundtrack to the foreseeable future...

https://youtu.be/UeSVu1zbF94

(and god bless those people who do these yout..."

Thanks for that, I didn't know that piece.

Are you a Scriabin fan at all? If we're drawing from the library of approaches to apocalypse, I'd recommend Vers la flamme [the title evokes both Scriabin's fear of the destruction of the universe through firestorm, and his intent to create a musical work that would cause humanity to transcend its physical limitations and ascend toward a spiritual light before the world was destroyed. however, shortly after writing this piece he developed the small pimple on his upper lip that was to kill him within the year, and thus the Mysterium was never written, and his plans to 'suspend bells from the clouds' never put to the test...]

David wrote: "Your faith in continuums and averages seems a little panglossian, is all I'm saying. History is also filled with inflection points and radical ruptures. There are a whole host of problems facing ci..."

Why am I not terrified? Because if you're assuming there's about to be what would basically be the most epochal change in world political direction in the last century, there should probably be some evidence that is a bit more... you know, remarkable. At the moment, you've got a posturing fool who looks kind of like a much less powerful (domestically) Berlusconi or the like, which isn't exactly earthshattering. And you've got him in the middle of one of the world's most narrowly hemmed-in political environments where his own actual power is greatly limited. [If Trump tried anything extreme he'd have to get it through Congress. And while, yes, there are way too many spineless Republicans right now, there's also a whole bunch who aren't, and I don't see John McCain voting for dictatorship any time soon. Not to mention that Trump is ideologically a long way from Congress and that those divisions are likely to become more contentious as his honeymoon fades]. And that's even before you get to the Supreme Court and the States.
And you've got your guy without growing legions of supporters, but instead with a very narrow supporter base and with most of the country already opposed to him, in an unprecedented way. He doesn't appear to have anything like enough support in the military and intelligence services to persuade them to step into the process for him. And while he does seem a little goosesteppy, he doesn't so far seem like someone with the determination and will to actually carry off an autogolpe in any case. See, for instance, how he's already backed down from his scariest threat (jailing Clinton).

Right now, the odds of Trump being removed from office by his own party look a lot higher than the odds of the end of democracy. He's likely to lose the House in two years, and it seems very unlikely he'll be able to win re-election.

So is this a great situation? No. This could be a really tough few years. But are there, so far, any signs of any true 'catastrophe' occuring in the near future? No, not really. And those things almost never come out of the blue, anyway - coups are generally the culmination of many years of serious crisis.

Now, is Trump another step on the road to the end of democracy? Yes. So was Bush, and so was Obama (see earlier discussions). But that's a problem that there's still plenty of time to address. As has been done before. Trump is unlikely to reach the dictatory levels of a Nixon or a Roosevelt, even. Or an the illiberalism of an Eisenhower era, for that matter, even if some of the worst excesses of that era weren't specifically Eisenhower's fault. You're a long way from McCarthy, and democracy survived McCarthy. So worry, sure, but don't melt down.

Wastrel wrote: "So worry, sure, but don't melt down. ."

I know I know. But the more we meltdown it seems the more Rump meltsdown and then the more quickly maybe a few of those Repubos will stand up and do the right thing. So for the moment, I'm going to try on the Zizekian=Accelerationist outfit.

[Who would've thunk that it'd be the park services to first stand up to this fascist shit?]

I think of Trump more as symptom than disease.

I don't think this is a sustainable situation:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-de...

And I don't see the collective, political will to change it in a non-violent, rational manner. Economic stratification is the worst it's been at any time since before the first world war. See Capital in the Twenty-First Century. Also Wolfgang Streeck's Buying Time: The Delayed Crisis of Democratic Capitalism and How Will Capitalism End?.

Ecological collapse on this scale is an entirely unprecedented problem facing humanity, and, yes, there is reason to think it's happening in the not-too-distant future.

The erosion of civil liberties in the United States is a relatively minor problem by comparison.

I mean, I get what you're saying, Wastrel. This is not as bad as... But nonetheless it is a very bad thing. A very bad thing itself. And maybe maybe (very likely) we deserve it because we've done some pretty fucked up shit to other folks (fucked up shit that Clinton would've continued doing too). But, relatively speaking, this is much much worse than what we could've done and what we should do. This is very very bad, what we've done/had done to us. It's very bad. The world freakin' looks to the US to make shit better ;; all the immigrants I meet freakin' love this country. This is something to fight for tooth and nail. Zero tolerance for whatever you call it--fascism, not-quite-fascism, whatever--it's too too much in that direction. We all know it can get an awful freakin' lot worse and though the thing is that there are so far no signs that it won't get freakin' worse. The Party of wait-and-see so far has turned up zero evidence that anything but worse will happen.

And but millions on Saturday said they weren't willing to wait to see if it gets really bad. Massive meltdown. That gives me hope.

Yes, millions and millions immediately declaring themselves ungovernable. That was a panicky reaction and the correct reaction.

I am a little surprised not to see more comment on the latest bizarre twist, where Trump claims to have strong evidence of massive voter fraud with several million illegitimate ballots cast.

Well, some of the things he's doing seem stupid, and some evil, but this is just plain loopy. His lawyers were arguing in court only a few weeks ago, against Jill Stein, that there was absolutely no evidence of significant voter fraud. Also, he won by a tiny margin - if a hundred thousand votes had gone the other way, he'd have lost. Hardly surprising, since he was so far behind in the popular vote.

So... now he's doing a 180 degree turn and claiming that there is secret evidence which only he knows about to the effect that in fact there was massive voter fraud, and hence that his election victory could very probably have depended on it?

I dunno. I've heard many people say that he looks like he's suffering from early dementia, and I'm starting to see their point. This doesn't make any sense. But sure, let's take him at his word. He's telling us openly that the election actually was rigged after all and in fact he really lost.

I didn't vote for him. I even went door-to-door on weekends for Hillary -- not so much FOR her, but AGAINST him. Downside is, he won my state. Ugh.

Manny wrote: "He's telling us openly that the election actually was rigged after all and in fact he really lost. "

If it turns out the election was rigged (in favor or against him doesn't matter) there has to be a rerun. At least that would be the case in Germany.