English Mysteries Club discussion
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I have just begun "Borrowed Time" by Robert Goddard - anyone familiar with his writings?I started reading "Two Evils" by P.J. Tracy, (published in Great Britain last year), then realized I read that same book with the title "Off the Grid" (published 2012 in the U.S.)I hate when the publishers do that, so confusing.
With so many "cute cozies" popping up nowadays (chick-lit with a mystery), some writers (including me) are calling our puzzle-focused mysteries "noir cozies." This year's Left Coast Crime Conference featured a panel on "the cozy noir," but at least 1 panelist rejected that label. I think John pretty much nailed the definition; plenty of room for disagreement though!
I think a cozy can have a police detective, but it helps if they are a not very strict police detective. I consider, for example, the Hamish MacBeth mysteries (by M.C. Beaton) to be cozys. Even though Hamish is a police officer, he is not a very officious police officer but more like a friendly black lab sort of police officer, though of course he always gets his man or woman. (What is less than perfect about them is that often the reader isn't given all the clues needed to solve the mystery, but other than that I find them quite enjoyable.)
Joan wrote: "I've always understood the term "cozy" to refer to a murder mystery in which:1) the detective, usually a woman and usually "of a certain age," is an amateur, i.e., not a police officer or any oth..."
I largely agree with your definition, although not necessarily of a certain age but would add avoid graphic violence, sex, and foul language as Leslie said.
Then there are the Hamish McBeth, Midsummer Murders, type the I, along with most library patrons, would term detective mysteries. Followed by the crime stories which usually involve graphic description, violence, forensics etc., the police and related departments.
John wrote: "There's a nice little article in Wikipedia called 'Crime Fiction' that talks about the sub-genres in crime fiction.
The old phrase for what people now call 'cosy' was the 'whodunnit'. Christie, S..."
Thanks to John and all the other people who have answered my question. There seems to be much room for debate about what 'cosy' means in this context but a common thread is that these novels avoid the graphic violence, and sometimes sex, present in so many crime novels today. Amen to that!
The old phrase for what people now call 'cosy' was the 'whodunnit'. Christie, S..."
Thanks to John and all the other people who have answered my question. There seems to be much room for debate about what 'cosy' means in this context but a common thread is that these novels avoid the graphic violence, and sometimes sex, present in so many crime novels today. Amen to that!
Having finished our Book of the Month, I am now reading the final Inspector Morse, The Remorseful Day,
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Robert wrote: "... There seems to be much room for debate about what 'cosy' means in this context but a common thread is that these novels avoid the graphic violence, and sometimes sex, present in so many crime novels today. Amen to that!"There's actually no shortage of sex and violence among the characters in cozies. It's just not written about very explicitly. These are murder mysteries, after all! Things start with a dead body, and there's often a second or third dead body along the way. Love, jealousy, and betrayal are as usual motives that need to be considered, and they're often felt by sexual partners (of the victims or the suspects). But the people in Jane Marple's or Jessica Fletcher's little villages know the value of whispers and innuendo and locked doors.
True, Joan! I've often felt the paradox of loving murder mysteries but hating violence, gore, and gratuitous sex. When the author allows me to use my imagination (as much or as little as I want to!) instead of bludgeoning me over the head with the facts, I'm able to enjoy the story, all of those behind-the-scenes "whispers and innuendo and locked doors".
Joan wrote: "There's actually no shortage of sex and violence among the characters in cozies. It's just not written about very explicitly. "Nice point. It's more the manner of how the sex and violence are discussed rather than their absence. More wink-wink hint-hint than rap-artist language.
I am currently reading, The Last Girl, by Jane Casey. I highly recommend this book and series. Nota cozy but an extremely good mystery.
Susan, Thanks for the recommendation - always helpful in my search for different authors.
Everyman wrote: "Joan wrote: "There's actually no shortage of sex and violence among the characters in cozies. It's just not written about very explicitly. "Nice point. It's more the manner of how the sex and vi..."
Isn't that what the adjective "graphic" is meant to convey?
Leslie wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Joan wrote: "There's actually no shortage of sex and violence among the characters in cozies. It's just not written about very explicitly. "Nice point. It's more the manner of h..."
"Graphic" meaning everything laid out on the table, every single drip of blood and every detail of everyone's sexual activity, right?
I agree with Kate and Hayes, I too like cozies, but perhaps I am not much of a purist, I also liked the Agatha Raisin series (M.C. Beaton) and Rhys Bowen's Royal Spyness especially on audiobook, the readers are excellent.A different type of English cozy (to me) is the Amelia Peabody series, it combines my love of cozy with Egypt, I do love that series.
I don't care for Agatha Raisin but I do like the Hamish McBeth series. I've read all that my library has.
"Isn't that what the adjective "graphic" is meant to convey?"
Well, yes, that is pretty much what I meant when I used the word!
Well, yes, that is pretty much what I meant when I used the word!
Read one Agatha Raisin is fine but the the rest are the same, at least to me.
Kerstin wrote: "I agree with Kate and Hayes, I too like cozies, but perhaps I am not much of a purist, I also liked the Agatha Raisin series (M.C. Beaton) and Rhys Bowen's Royal Spyness especially on audiobook, th..."Elizabeth Peters always wrote with a lot of panache! And Amelia was just plain funny...
Kerstin wrote: "A different type of English cozy (to me) is the Amelia Peabody series, it combines my love of cozy with Egypt, I do love that series."
Oh, yes. As mysteries they aren't really much, but just being around Amelia is such fun one doesn't care how lame the mystery part is.
Kay wrote: "I don't care for Agatha Raisin but I do like the Hamish McBeth series. I've read all that my library has."Ditto, ditto, ditto. My library also has some available on audiobook loan, and I've listened to all those, too. They do get a bit repetitive, but they're nice when you need something relaxing that doesn't tax the brain.
I find cosy mysteries lend themselves well to audible but the reader can make or break a book. I really liked listening to the Agatha Raisin series in part because of the reader Donada Peters. Kate Reading is another reader that I just love listening to.
I like to alternate between light books such as the Amelia Peabody series and more serious mysteries. I also read books that aren't mysteries. I am currently reading The Silkworm and really enjoying it so far. The main character is a private detective who is a war veteran.
Kay wrote: "I don't care for Agatha Raisin but I do like the Hamish McBeth series. I've read all that my library has."Yes, Agatha is not likable at first... and I probably only stuck with her because it was an audio book, but as audios they are good and I came to like that Agatha is not the typical heroine, stroppy, silly and sometimes dumb, but in the end I did really want to know how her life develops even though the books are very formulaic.
Kay wrote: "I like to alternate between light books such as the Amelia Peabody series and more serious mysteries."Such as??
The Amelia Peabody and Hamish McBeth series are both pretty light. So is the Rumpole book that we are reading this month. The Silkworm that I am currently reading is very dark. The author is Robert Galbraith (J.K Rowling). Charles Todd is an American mother and son writing team who live in the U. S. But the books take place in England during the Second World War. Also France because one series main character is a nurse on the battlefields. These are all serious books.
Kay wrote: "The Amelia Peabody and Hamish McBeth series are both pretty light. So is the Rumpole book that we are reading this month. The Silkworm that I am currently reading is very dark. The author is Robert..."I read most of the Bess Crawford series recently. And I agree that the Great War setting makes these books extremely dark. The authors capture the terrible suffering quite well, I think.
Kay wrote: "The Amelia Peabody and Hamish McBeth series are both pretty light. So is the Rumpole book that we are reading this month. The Silkworm that I am currently reading is very dark. The author is Robert..."Thanks. I'm not sure I'm up for very dark mysteries; I get my serious reading more in classic literature. But it's good to know.
S.K. wrote: "Kay wrote: "The Amelia Peabody and Hamish McBeth series are both pretty light. So is the Rumpole book that we are reading this month. The Silkworm that I am currently reading is very dark. The auth..."I really enjoyed The Silkworm. Did you read The Cuckoo's Calling?
Kay wrote: "S.K. wrote: "Kay wrote: "The Amelia Peabody and Hamish McBeth series are both pretty light. So is the Rumpole book that we are reading this month. The Silkworm that I am currently reading is very d..."Not yet. Thanks for reminding me! I will add them to my list, and I suspect they will be perfect summer reads.
I just finished reading Malice Aforethought -- I liked it (especially the irony of the end) but it really isn't a mystery! I guess "crime fiction" would be a better descriptor...
Just started, Vertigo 42 by Martha Grimes. I love Jury and Melrose Plant.
Susan wrote: "Just started, Vertigo 42 by Martha Grimes. I love Jury and Melrose Plant."I too love Jury and Melrose Plant. I recently read the one you are reading and it was like visiting old friends I had not seen in a while.
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Melrose is his dear friend who is actually a Lord who gave up his title. These are some of my favorite books. Jury is superintendent at Scotland Yard. Quite a cast of characters and always a good mystery. When I received this yesterday I was like a kid at Christmas. Yvonne is right like catching up with old friends.
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I am just about finished reading all the Richard Jury books in order. I highly recommend it.
It's hard finishing the latest one knowing you have to wait for the next. I do recommend reading them in order if possible.
I hate that she can't write them as fast as I can read them.
Susan wrote: "Just started, Vertigo 42 by Martha Grimes. I love Jury and Melrose Plant."I know a lot of people who also love them. However, I don't. I find them overwritten. I don't like authors who seem to me to try too hard.
Fortunately there are so many wonderful books and authors to choose from.
I found the Jury and Melrose Plant combo lots of fun. I don't remember the mystery parts but even had the part or Melrose, should it ever become a tv series, picked out. I kept picturing him as the actor who played Niles Crane on Frasier.
I loved Niles and what a great suggestion.Although can you imagine him giving up his title?
Mod
Ah! Light dawns. Perhaps, Susan, you meant that it's unlikely within the character as he is portrayed, that he would give up his title, yes?
You got it. Niles was such a snob as was Frasier. I think that's what got them into so much mischief.
Mod
I do love Frasier - and particularly the episodes (such as the tie-snipping episode at the Steakhouse their father takes them to) where at the end of the episode they begin to realise what awful snobs they are. But if their characters weren't so deliciously snobbish of course, there wouldn't have been a great comedy series for us all to enjoy ;)
It is a great series and for someone who's never been there lots of interesting background on the area.
Tony Benn was Viscount Stansgate, an hereditary title given to his father, a Labour politician. His son is now Viscount Stansgate again! At the time when Benn gave up his title, the Earl of Home gave his up, becoming Tory Prime Minister as Sir Alec Douglas-Home, in the House of Commons. I'll just stay plain Mr, I think.
English Mysteries Club
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The old phrase for what people now call 'cosy' was the 'whodunnit'. Christie, Sayers, Allingham, Marsh, Tey, Crispen, Innes, etc, going back to Conan Doyle. Usually based in the period in which they were written.
Male and female writers and detectives, amateur or police detectives.
Intelligent, even intellectual; well-drawn characters (usually); some wit or whimsy; well-written; the key is the solving of the puzzle.
Modern versions of these, often based in the 1920s, and entertaining but churned-out, are the core of the 'cosy' books, I think. Some can be good, but some terrible!