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[happy]

Man, and here I thought our wild fires were nasty - God Bless AR and stay safe

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

It was a bad day Happy but at the moment we are pretty OK, the nearest fire is about 100 miles away.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Saw it on the news again AR and the firefighters are doing a grand job in very hard circumstances. Keep safe mate.

[Manray9]

I came across this slide show of the October 20, 2013 reenactment of the Battle of the Nations in Leipzig.

http://realclearpolitics.galleries.ne...

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

A big event and I'd love to be there to watch all the activities & events!

[Manray9]

I know our group is knowledgeable on military subjects over a broad range. Although not about WW II, the article linked below, by military correspondent Tom Ricks, appeared in yesterday’s Washington Post. I think the questions are pertinent and deserve answers. Ricks has written before about why no senior officers are relieved anymore – no matter what the nature or seriousness of their bungling on the battlefield. It is a far cry from George C. Marshall’s or Ike’s approach in WW II.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinion...

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

I'm rather of the view that this lack of accountability is an ever increasing and almost accepted trend in public offices with politics being the leader by a long chalk.

As for his mention of contractors. Non-military units deployed in support of or in some cases on operations is another adoption that to my mind is very unwelcome, totally unnecessary (certainly if military units were funded properly) and undermining of the longer term let alone immediate efficiency; and deeply dangerous when connected to wider legal aspects on personal rights where civilian contractors mix with military personal and are subject to the same military orders.

[Colin]

Manray9 wrote: "I know our group is knowledgeable on military subjects over a broad range. Although not about WW II, the article linked below, by military correspondent Tom Ricks, appeared in yesterday’s Washingt..."

They get relieved for dissenting with POTUS, or for thinking for themselves. Bungling on behalf of his majesty Obama carries no great penalty. The generals are all generally smarter than the C in C anyway. Remember this administration never holds anyone accountable for illegal or poor performance, unless you are the telephone operator who honestly answers questions regarding the failure of Obamacare and the flawed website. Or if you are the flag officer who points out that your irresponsible, amateurish approach to socialist benevolence is costing lives and reducing our national security.

[Manray9]

Colin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I know our group is knowledgeable on military subjects over a broad range. Although not about WW II, the article linked below, by military correspondent Tom Ricks, appeared in yest..."

I did not intend to trigger a political tirade with my link. I believe Ricks wrote a thoughtful piece on needed reforms in our armed forces. I do, however, disagree with your characterization. It has always been the case in America that senior officers are relieved when they dissent from the president -- who is, after all, the Commander-in-Chief. Just recall McClellan, MacArthur, Singlaub and Shinseki to name a few. Shinseki was forced into premature retirement by G. W. Bush because his warnings about troop levels required to occupy Iraq proved to have been correct -- much to the embarrassment of the administration. The recent trend in the decline of military accountability started with Reagan. He refused to relieve anyone in the aftermath of the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut, even though 240 U.S. servicemen were killed because basic security precautions had been ignored. I don’t see what Ricks’ points have to do with Obamacare, website problems or socialism.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

If it helps the discussion my points were from a British slant with one eye on American PMCs (Private Military Contractors).

[happy]

Manray9 wrote: "I came across this slide show of the October 20, 2013 reenactment of the Battle of the Nations in Leipzig.

http://realclearpolitics.galleries.ne......"

here is another slide show from the reenactment

http://www.nationalreview.com/slidesh...

Some of the pictures are the same, but there are enough different ones to make is worth the view

[Colin]

Manray9 wrote: "Colin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I know our group is knowledgeable on military subjects over a broad range. Although not about WW II, the article linked below, by military correspondent Tom Ricks, ap..."

The situation in Beirut was different, because we operated under UN orders, not US military orders. That mistake was never repeated again, although the Un still functions militarily as a castrated laughing stock unless it is UK or US led, and having been on a couple of UN missions, the term "ineffective" is well deserved.

[Manray9]

Colin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Colin wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "I know our group is knowledgeable on military subjects over a broad range. Although not about WW II, the article linked below, by military corresponde..."

The MNF command was not responsible for the failure of U.S. military officers to undertake elementary security precautions in Beirut. The Long Commission Report specifically mentioned that USCINCEUR ROE were in effect and MAU and BLT commanders were responsible for USMC security at BIA.

I was deployed to the Persian Gulf at the time. After the initial shock, much discussion took place about accountability. Everyone expected heads to roll -- the only question was how high up the bloodletting would carry. Instead Reagan appointed Admiral Long to conduct a fact-finding commission to assess the incident. The Long Commission Report recommended SecDef take administrative or disciplinary actions "citing the failure of the USCINCEUR operational chain of command." The report went on to conclude that administrative or disciplinary actions be taken by SecDef against the MAU and BLT commanders for "failure...to take the security measures necessary to preclude the catastrophic loss of life." Reagan said "local commanders should not be punished," so no reliefs took place. SecDef took no administrative or disciplinary actions as recommended by the Long Commission. There was never a formal Court of Inquiry.

[Colin]

The BLT commander, then Col. Myron Harrington, who is a contact of mine, was at odds with the procedures. His verbal opposition was probably, sadly why he never made Brig. Gen. The great problem also was trying to abide by the wishes of the local government while performing the duty. That rarely works out well. Two of the survivors of the blast were in my unit 1/6 afterward.

[Manray9]

Too bad for Col. Harrington. The officers are always left holding the bag when the half-baked illusions of politicians turn into a pile of dung.

[Dj]

Colin wrote: "The BLT commander, then Col. Myron Harrington, who is a contact of mine, was at odds with the procedures. His verbal opposition was probably, sadly why he never made Brig. Gen. The great problem al..."

Okay I know that I missed something somewhere, because I could almost swear to the fact that a Bacon, Lettuce and Tomato Sandwich doesn't need a commander. So BLT must be something different in this context, but for the life of me I can't figure it out.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Hi Dj, within the USMC 'BLT' stands for battalion landing team, I think, since I'm Australian :)

[Lilo]

Manray9 wrote: "Too bad for Col. Harrington. The officers are always left holding the bag when the half-baked illusions of politicians turn into a pile of dung."

I love this flowery definition.

[Manray9]

Dj wrote: "Colin wrote: "The BLT commander, then Col. Myron Harrington, who is a contact of mine, was at odds with the procedures. His verbal opposition was probably, sadly why he never made Brig. Gen. The gr..."

A Battalion Landing Team (BLT) is the ground combat element of a USMC Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU), formerly known as a Marine Amphibious Unit, or MAU. Such a group is deployed, along with its air, logistics and command elements, aboard ships of a U.S. Navy Expeditionary Strike Group (a successor to the USN Amphibious Ready Group -- ARG). It is the point of the spear of combined USN/USMC forward-deployed expeditionary forces. At any time, there are several ESG/MEU groups deployed around the world.

[Manray9]

Lilo wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Too bad for Col. Harrington. The officers are always left holding the bag when the half-baked illusions of politicians turn into a pile of dung."

I love this flowery definition."

In my post-navy days, I've sought to temper my language.

[Lilo]

@ Manray9: As far as I am concerned, you could have said "shit". O.k., it is a 4-letter word, but so is "love".

[Dj]

Manray9 wrote: "Dj wrote: "Colin wrote: "The BLT commander, then Col. Myron Harrington, who is a contact of mine, was at odds with the procedures. His verbal opposition was probably, sadly why he never made Brig. ..."

Ah I knew it couldn't be food. Thanks.

[Manray9]

Navy buffs may find this article of interest. It is about the new U.S. Navy stealth guided missile destroyer USS ZUMWALT (DDG-1000). It is billed as having impressive capabilities, including an advanced gun system capable of ranges out to 60 nm. It displaces more than a WW II-era U.S. Baltimore-class cruiser or a British County-class cruiser. The phrase to note is: "Engineers aren’t quite sure if Zumwalt ships are capable of weathering giant waves..." I hope it doesn't turn into a $3.0 billion Mary Rose!

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Upda...

[Boudewijn]

Just back from spending a couple of days in the northern part of the Netherlands, where we spent some days walking through the beautiful landscape. Although maybe not exactly WW2 history, we encountered a lot of neolithic burial mounds that are scattered around the forests in this part of the country: http://imgur.com/a/fKecT

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Sounds like a nice break Bou and an interesting get away.

[Manray9]

Bou wrote: "Just back from spending a couple of days in the northern part of the Netherlands, where we spent some days walking through the beautiful landscape. Although maybe not exactly WW2 history, we encoun..."

Nice photos. Where was this in the Netherlands?

[Boudewijn]

Manray9 wrote: "Bou wrote: "Just back from spending a couple of days in the northern part of the Netherlands, where we spent some days walking through the beautiful landscape. Although maybe not exactly WW2 histor..."

Hi Manray, it's in the northern part of the Netherlands, in the province of Drenthe:
http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=drenthe&...

I guess our provinces are the size of your cities I think :-) It's such a small country compared to the US or Australia ... But luckily for me, with a rich history! (Not implying that the US or Australia don't have a rich history of course)

[Manray9]

Bou wrote: "Manray9 wrote: "Bou wrote: "Just back from spending a couple of days in the northern part of the Netherlands, where we spent some days walking through the beautiful landscape. Although maybe not ex..."

Thanks, Bou. I have visited the Netherlands and found it fascinating. Plenty of history packed into a small area.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

You are lucky to be surrounded by so much history with such easy access :)

[carl]

nice pics bou.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Just gone past 11.00am on the 11/11/13 in Australia and we have marked the 95th anniversary of the Armistance. I must confess that the Last Post always brings a tear or two to my eyes.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

We had our services yesterday (Remembrance Sunday) and I will be attending another later today at 11:00 a.m. Like you Rick Last Post and the wreath laying are emotional sounds and sights. I'll raise a glass later to absent friends later too.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

It's hard not to get emotional of these events, enjoy your beer later today, have one for me!

[Manray9]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "It's hard not to get emotional of these events, enjoy your beer later today, have one for me!"

It gets me too when the President places the wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns.

[happy]

I've posted this before, but I Thought it was worth a repost since we have so many new members

This is something my brother wrote about his feelings on Verterns Day and since he writes much better than I do

To all those who have worn the uniform, no matter what country or service -

My sincere thnx

Happy

Just a thought for my veteran friends and collegues on Veterans' Day

It's Veterans' day and I'm reading the Sunday morning newspaper (it doesn't really matter which one), and the paper is stuffed with 'Veteran's Day' sales adds. Did you know that to honor America's Veterans, you can buy a brand new flat screen TV for just $699.99? How about a new a new sweater, two for $20.00? We've got your new range top, microwave, and the latest low end computer. It just warms my patriotic soul. I can't think of a better way of honoring the men and women who have risked their lives for my freedom than running right down the 'miracle mile' to buy a brand new car!

The odd thing is, as I look at all these advertisements, I swear they are the same deals I could have got on Columbus Day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, the 4th of July, or Martin Luther King Day. It seems the best way Americans celebrate is by shopping.

Veterans' Day is known in some parts of the world as "Remembrance Day." It is a day set apart to honor those men and women who have served in our country's armed forces, and particularly, those who gave their lives to defend the freedom and ideals our country represent. Today I give honor to my father who left a wife and five small children to travel to Viet Nam. He was there for a year, and lost more than one friend in an effort to preserve the freedom of the people of South Vietnam.

Now, we can argue the merits of the mission - but the fact is, my Dad was called, and he went. He did his job the best way he knew how, and has suffered the physical consequences for the last 45 years. In addition to Vietnam, he served our country in Europe and in South Korea. He was, and is, a patriot. He was raised during World War II, and enlisted as a medic in the Utah National Guard shortly before the end of the Korean War. He joined his father, his uncle, and 5 of 6 brothers in serving our country. As a legacy, three of his four sons, and both of his sons-in-law have served their country as soldiers, sailors, National Guardsmen, and US Army Reservists. It is a legacy I am proud to be part of.

I have walked the lines of whitened marble monuments, crosses, and Stars of David at Gettysburg, Antietam, Arlington, Normandy, the Meuse-Argonne forest, Cambridge, England, and Luxembourg. It is the final resting place of young men and women who answered the call and gave 'their last full measure of devotion' so that this nation will 'long endure.' I have read hundreds of times the sacred, hallowed words, "Here lies an American Soldier, known but to God."

So I don't think I will buy anything this Veterans' Day. In fact I think I will deliberately NOT buy anything this Veterans' day. Instead I will bow my head and quietly thank those men and women, living or dead, who have put on a uniform, and sworn, at the possible price of their own life, to defend the constitution of the United States of America. In particularly, I thank those who will spend this Veterans' Day far away from their homes, their families, all they hold dear. I have been there.

Thank you.

[Boudewijn]

Beautiful written Happy. And don't forget that in my country, we will never forget all those brave young men and women, who liberated us from the Nazi occupation.

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

happy wrote: "I've posted this before, but I Thought it was worth a repost since we have so many new members..."

Thanks happy, excellent writing. Should be published in every newspaper.

[carl]

Happy, Like they used to say on the credits of old movies, a good cast is worth repeating !

[[deleted user]]

I don't think it could be said any better than that, happy.
I want to thank all the brave men & women who have served.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Thanks for posting again Happy, a great letter from your brother!

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks again Happy - your brother has a great way with words.

[Laurel]

Thank you, Happy, for sharing this letter.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

I'm not sure if overseas members can see this but it is a wonderful story on Armistice Day about a WWII airman who served as ground crew. He never married and had no children but today some 500 people attended his funeral after a call to attend went around the serving and ex-services community.

This has happened a couple of times now in the UK to ensure veterans are sent off with respect and remembrance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-...

[Laurel]

Geevee wrote: "I'm not sure if overseas members can see this but it is a wonderful story on Armistice Day about a WWII airman who served as ground crew. He never married and had no children but today some 500 pe..."

What a wonderful story, on a day when so many sad thoughts are brought to the surface for reflection and remembrance. Able to connect to your post, Geevee, here in Canada, thanks for posting it.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Thanks for letting me know you can see it Laurel.

[[deleted user]]

Geevee wrote: "I'm not sure if overseas members can see this but it is a wonderful story on Armistice Day about a WWII airman who served as ground crew. He never married and had no children but today some 500 pe..."

Thanks for that, Geevee. That story brought tears to my eyes. Well done UK!

[Manray9]

Geevee wrote: "I'm not sure if overseas members can see this but it is a wonderful story on Armistice Day about a WWII airman who served as ground crew. He never married and had no children but today some 500 pe..."

Bravo!

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

That's a great response, thanks for posting the link to the article Geevee.

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

That was a great story for Veterans' Day, thanks Geevee.

[happy]

Great story - thnx Geevee