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VII. Support GR Authors > Are 1 star reviews really that helpful?

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message 101: by Linda (new)

Linda (ladylawyer8650) | 101 comments If I give one star to a book because of mechanics of good writing errors, I am giving the author valuable information: get a new editor.


message 102: by Leonie (new)

Leonie (leonierogers) | 43 comments Yes, I've had a look too - and at the other lower star reviews. Most of them said the same thing which was about forced rhyming and lack of punctuation. It does appear to be a personal taste issue to some extent.

Poetry is different (I write it too), and is often not to everyone's tastes. I suspect poetry is more vulnerable to wildly differing reviews, simply because it's poetry.

Some people will love it because it rhymes. Others will hate it because it rhymes. Some will love the lack of punctuation, others will hate it.

Some will love the themes, and others hate them. I think poetry polarises readers probably more than any other genre.


message 103: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Linda wrote: "... Poetry, much more so than prose, takes some liberties with standard grammar, syntax, and punctuation. ..."

e e cummings was genius. :-)


message 104: by C.S. (new)

C.S. (archermarks) | 2 comments Justin, I believe that's exactly what people are saying. It's a good idea for writers to present themselves well whenever they put forth anything in writing. That includes forum posts. I count at least four grammatical/punctuation errors in "post 99" alone.

We all know and understand the difficult situation you are in, but throwing a hissy-fit isn't helpful. It's perfectly understandable to judge the soundness of a writer's writing by any sample available, including forum posts.


message 105: by Sharon (last edited Feb 25, 2013 02:26PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Linda wrote: "Has anyone actually looked at the one-star review?

I did.

While the reviewer makes reference to lack of punctuation, most of her review focuses on what she considered the superficiality of the ..."


I did as well. I concur with your assessments of what she was saying, FWIW. I likewise concur that poetry has more leeway, stylistically speaking, than prose -- but that doesn't mean that you can just wave your hand and blow off not knowing the difference between "your" and "you're," "its" and "it's," and similar errors.

Real writers deal with it without whining.

Yep. The simple fact is that not everyone is going to like one's work. I stopped giving a damn about 1-star reviews a long time ago. Even best-selling Big Six books get them. One of the most beloved books in the history of US literature, To Kill a Mockingbird, has hundreds of them.

Here's the thing: some people will love a given book, while others hate it passionately. Most people will fall somewhere in the middle. That's reality. If an author can't take the possibility that someone may call his or her baby ugly, it's best that said author never publish anything.

With that said, it *still* behooves authors to present the best manuscript that they can. That means it should be close to perfect when it goes to an editor, with a very realistic understanding that the editor's fresh set of eyes is going to see stuff that you missed. If you don't think you can afford to pay an editor (general you), visit your local community college and ask the journalism instructor to recommend one of the advanced editing students to do the book for you for school credit.

What you learn from working with a good editor is invaluable. It will make you a better author in the long run.


message 106: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments ''There are some people that if they don't know, ya can't tell em''-Louis Armstrong


message 107: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Justin wrote: "''There are some people that if they don't know, ya can't tell em''-Louis Armstrong"

"I am no longer young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde :-D


message 108: by Justin (new)

Justin (justinbienvenue) | 2274 comments Clearly


message 109: by Brian (new)

Brian Bigelow (brian_bigelow) I didn't realize you were talking about a review of a poetry book. I've written poetry for over 30 years, most of it trad published. Yes, you can take some liberties. Poetry should have a rhythm to it so any grammatical liberties has to do with the musical/artistic nature of the art form. No, you wouldn't necessarily have commas in poetry. Basically it should rewritten to the point the syntax is correct without any punctuation.


message 110: by Pete (new)

Pete Morin | 38 comments The hardest lesson for a young aspiring writer to learn is how to take criticism.


message 111: by D.L. (new)

Behan D.L. (debsnovels) I am amused at the controversy a star can cause. Gee if I got a star at school I would go home on top of the world, two was even better. However, the fun goes out of it when there is a stigma to it. Now my one star is laughed at. But I'd take it on the chin and wear my one star proudly ... that is IF ... the giver has read ALL the book. What would make my little star sad is if the reviewer only read the first few pages. :( *


message 112: by D.L. (new)

Behan D.L. (debsnovels) Sorry, my little star didn’t explain that very well and deserved that. I totally agree about novels published without a professional edit. I always chose at least two professionals to edit my novels and even then they don’t always get it right. However, thanks goodness for honest beta reader these are fixed before publication. Anything less will attract criticism. No, little stars issues are reader who picks up a fantasy and accept it as true. That if they were to read just a few more pages, may find out, that it is what it is – a make believe story. And yes, they have every right to give it a one star if they didn’t like it. They purchased the book, gave an author a sale and then went to the trouble of writing the review. More than a customer would do if they purchased anything from a store. I wasn’t debating the one star, just the few pages read and then a review on the completed story. Would I find this review helpful?
My apologies once again  Little star out!


message 113: by David (new)

David Santos (authordas) | 41 comments Yes amazon reviews are nuts. personallly when i get a 1 star review, the review they leave has something against something. Like dont like God or dont like lesbians and because of that they lower the rating. Also editing. Not much had to do with the charecters, plot etc. 1 or 2 star reviews don;t help at all. ...at;eats not to me.


message 114: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Sharpe (abigailsharpe) Brian, I once went to a local writers meeting and they were critiquing poetry. I had to put down my pencil so my grammar-girl self would stop correcting the punctuation.


message 115: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 06:15AM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Brian wrote: "I didn't realize you were talking about a review of a poetry book. I've written poetry for over 30 years, most of it trad published. Yes, you can take some liberties. Poetry should have a rhythm to..."

Yes, you can take liberties with things like punctuation in order to create a rhythm, but spelling errors are inexcusable.

Justin wrote: "Clearly"

::whoosh, went the point::

Seriously, I get that you're pissed off that someone pointed out the errors in your book. As was suggested up-thread, perhaps you can get the problems corrected and republish. You wouldn't be the first person to do so. I re-edited an entire novel for someone whose first editor proved to be a dud of the first water.


message 116: by Lisa (new)

Lisa Williamson (suteko) | 140 comments Linda wrote: "Debbie wrote: "I am amused at the controversy a star can cause. Gee if I got a star at school I would go home on top of the world, two was even better. However, the fun goes out of it when there is..."

If it is so bad that in the first hundred words you can't read it then toss it. If you write a clear and concise one star review then it is worth it. If you write this is bad and leave it at that then you are doing no one any good. If your review is better than the book people will look for your reviews, if your review is just this s@#$# then why do a review? I got a a two star that told me I misused apostrophes and I went back and fixed that error. I was glad it was pointed out to me. if you are going to review and point out the bad, point it out in a helpful way. You will make a better writer in the end


message 117: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (last edited Mar 01, 2013 07:18AM) (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Lisa wrote: "...If you write this is bad and leave it at that then you are doing no one any good. ... if you are going to review and point out the bad, point it out in a helpful way. ..."

Just my thoughts as a reader who posts reviews for my friends or as back-up for myself:

1) My reviews are not intended to do any good for anyone but me or my friends.
2) If I want to write just "this s@#$#", then that is my prerogative.
3) In general, my reviews are not written to help anyone but me or my friends. I most especially have no obligation to help any author, much less one to whom I forked over money in order to read a book.

etc: clarification/typos


message 118: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Douglass (rdouglass) | 212 comments But ETA, how does just saying "it was carp" help your friends or any other potential readers? Maybe your friends--I guess they might know your tastes well enough to guess.

What I wanted to say was, if I am unable to finish a book, I either quietly remove it from my "to read" with no comment, or if I really thought it was bad, I will put it on my "could not finish" shelf. But I am a little torn. On the one hand, I don't feel I can/should review a book I didn't finish. On the other, --never mind. If the problems are so obvious in the first 20 pages, a potential buyer can see them for himself with the "look inside" feature, and it's their own problem if they don't look.

If given a book to review that was full of errors, I think at this point I would write the author a private note with either a general comment that they need more editing, or (if it's not TOO many errors), will keep a log and direct them to the specific places that need corrections. I'm pretty OCD about spelling, punctuation and grammar.


message 119: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Rebecca wrote: "But ETA, how does just saying "it was carp" help your friends or any other potential readers? Maybe your friends--I guess they might know your tastes well enough to guess."

If a book reminds me of a large fish, I would indeed feel obligated to say as much. ;->


message 120: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Douglass (rdouglass) | 212 comments LOL! That's my deliberate misspelling for fora that watch the language more closely than GR. But I agree: any book that makes one think of large fish, especially large dead fish, should come with a warning :D


message 121: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Rebecca wrote: "But ETA, how does just saying "it was carp" help your friends or any other potential readers? Maybe your friends--I guess they might know your tastes well enough to guess. ..."

Exactly. I usually wouldn't say "carp" so if I ever did... :-)


message 122: by Linda (new)

Linda (ladylawyer8650) | 101 comments Lisa wrote: "Linda wrote: "Debbie wrote: "I am amused at the controversy a star can cause. Gee if I got a star at school I would go home on top of the world, two was even better. However, the fun goes out of it..."

Lisa, I am the other Linda watching this one star back and forth discussion. I have made one prior comment, number 106, I believe. You make sense in your statement. I review for the benefit of the author and the reader. Writers labor to birth their work. No writer wants to hear his baby is ugly or defective. Readers do not want to spend their money to see the ugly baby. At this point the reviewer has an important job and responsibility to both reader and writer. I am going out on a limb to say the following: subject matter should not be part of the review. The author's treatment of subject matter should be reviewed. Doing that will stop these one star reviews wherein a reviewer says, "I did not like this book." This is my opinion.


message 123: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 10:37AM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Linda wrote: "Third, in my opinion, subject matter is as much a valid area for review as internal plot consistency, historical accuracy, spelling and punctuation, deus ex machina ending, or any other part of the book. "

Emphasis is mine. You touched on one of my pet peeves.

I mentioned this briefly in another thread, but nothing drives me crazier than finding myself yelling (mentally) at the author for factual inaccuracies. I'm not only a historical fiction author, I'm an avid reader -- and I also read non-fiction about eras and people who interest me.

Characters saying "Hi!" and "Okay!" in 12th Century England (yep, saw this in a book) pull readers right out of a story.

So does (as mentioned in said other thread) referring to a king of England in 1878. No such individual.

And then there was the book where a duke was addressed as "Miduke" instead of "your Grace" and his mother addressed as "Dowager." Ugh.

All of this is easy to research and is, IMO, inexcusable.

I could go on, but those examples suffice. I absolutely concur that subject matter, including historical accuracy, incorrect dialect, etc., is fair game.


message 124: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Sharpe (abigailsharpe) You know what I bet? I bet the character was a Lord and the author changed him to a duke and did a Replace All without checking each reference.


message 125: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 10:38AM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Serban wrote: "@Sharon
A duke is not referred to as my lord. A duke is higher than a lord, a king is higher than a duke, and an emperor is higher than a king.
Source: Blackadder, duke Wellington ^^
Prince George..."


You're correct; it should read "your Grace." Correcting my post. (This is what happens when I am a) ticked off and b) trying to hurry.)


message 126: by David (new)

David Santos (authordas) | 41 comments When I leave a review, the only thing I take off points for is language,too much cursing will ruin my reading expirience. Things like spelling and grammar are noticible and can become annoying, but shouldnt take away from the plot. I just can't see myself telling someone "Don't read that book, it has too many grammatical mistakes."

When i review I try to review the characters, the plot etc things the author spent hours working on.

I've had two types of people tell me about my first book. Person A said "Hey David your book was great, but I saw alot of typos." Person B: "Your book was horrible you need to edit them better."

Difference? Person A focused on the actually story. Person B nitpicked at every word they read. I have trouble leaving negative reviews, because i can respect the creativity and the time it takes to write a book and I just cant take off points just because the author couldn't afford an editor. We all make mistakes.


message 127: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Linda wrote: "@Sharon: Why do you think I have a shelf "flunks peerage titles 101"? ;-)"

That's brilliant, Linda. :-D


message 128: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 12:31PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) David wrote: " I just cant take off points just because the author couldn't afford an editor. We all make mistakes. "

Yes, we do. Which is why it behooves us as professionals to have someone other than ourselves proofread and yes, edit, the manuscript.

I'm sorry to say that, as an editor, I find the "I couldn't afford an editor" comment to be pretty bogus. I have more than 20 years of experience in the field, and my rates are mid-range for the level of experience I have. However, some folks cannot afford me; I get that. I always tell them the same thing: go to your local college and ask to meet with the professor of the journalism department. See if he will allow one of his advanced editing students to work on your manuscript -- at no charge to the author -- in exchange for college credit.

Other possibilities? Barter something the author can do in exchange for editing (yard work? cooking?).

There are *always* ways. There is just no excuse for publishing a poor manuscript.


message 129: by David (new)

David Santos (authordas) | 41 comments You are assuming everyone has a job. I haven't had a job in 3 years. I don't even have a phone. Paying ANYONE is out of the question regardless of their rate.

I plan to go through a publisher for me next books. Self publishing is a pain, especially for editing.


message 130: by David (new)

David Santos (authordas) | 41 comments Yes I do. I've spoken with a few.


message 131: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments David wrote: "... Things like spelling and grammar are noticible and can become annoying, but shouldnt take away from the plot. ..."

The operative word is "shouldn't". But if there are enough, especially when coupled with misuse of words and proofing errors, then the reading experience can be ruined so to warrant a negative review on that basis.

Most read for pleasure. I personally don't want to waste my slices of reading time trying to follow a story told via muddled writing. I want to relax when I read, not get pissed trying to figure out what I'm supposed to be reading.


message 132: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 01:22PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) David wrote: "You are assuming everyone has a job. I haven't had a job in 3 years. I don't even have a phone. Paying ANYONE is out of the question regardless of their rate. "

The only thing I'm assuming at this point is that you didn't read the rest of my post. :-(

Did you miss the bit about talking to the college professor, or bartering for something that you can do in exchange for editing?

BTW, that trad publisher you plan to wow with your next book? Is going to expect it to look pretty damned close to perfect when he gets it. A poorly-edited manuscript is not going to make it past the acquisitions editor's desk; that person has too many things to read/investigate to be bothered with a hot mess.


message 133: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Linda wrote: "It's not just a matter of getting your manuscript proofread by a bunch of college kids or even by a professional "editor" (most of whom are not editors at all, but proofreaders) to eliminate the typos and misplaced commas and incorrect verb tenses. It's a matter of learning how to construct a plot, how to build a believable character, how to show not tell, all that good shit that goes into writing a good book."

Thank you for this. I also do proofreading (which is a whole lot easier, and one helluva lot less expensive for my clients than my editing, which includes line edits, continuity edits, and extensive notes). They are most assuredly two different things.

For those who may have missed the memo, BTW, spell-check is not a substitute for a proofreader or an editor.

A good editor is the author's best friend, but if what you have is a crap story, well, suffice it to say that no editor of my acquaintance is a miracle worker.

It strikes me as the height of either arrogance or stupidity (I can't really decide which) to presume that an unprofessional, flawed product should be praised because "I couldn't afford an editor, so cut me a break." (I am not saying that is happening here, but I have seen it enough times that I find it worth mentioning.)

Author Martha Beck, in one of her lectures (I have it on CD, but don't remember the title just now) talks about the expectations of her Harvard colleagues when they presented a paper. She called it the "drop your pants and say ah!" response, with the "ah" sounding vaguely ... orgasmic. Not everyone who reads your stuff is going to drop their pants and say "ah"; at the same time, you shouldn't be handing them reasons to dislike your stuff.


message 134: by Abigail (new)

Abigail Sharpe (abigailsharpe) David, I try to focus in the story. But when misplaced or non-existent commas have me confused as to what's happening and who's and whose is messed up, I CAN'T focus on the story because I'm too busy trying to figure out WHAT the story is.


message 135: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 01:50PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) At this point, I feel compelled to share a blog post I wrote almost three years ago: Things Authors Should Know

If you want to see more like this, you can check out Some Brief Advice for Indie Authors, which is a freebie on Smashwords.

I've been in this business on one level or another since 1995. I've been a newspaper editor. I've gone both the traditional and self-published routes. I haven't been able to quit my day job, but very few people (even in trad publishing these days) have that luxury.

I'm not saying the things I do because I'm mean or bitchy or anything else. I'm saying them because a) I want to help people coming up behind me, so to speak and b) poor products reflect badly on *all* of us. By the same token, a rising tide lifts all boats.


message 136: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (last edited Feb 28, 2013 01:58PM) (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Serban wrote: "... That being said, it's important for authors, in my opinion, to update their books. To keep editing until the writing is truly cleansed of bad grammar. ..."

I will admit to TL;DR. But skimming down, I saw this and have only this to say: in my world, that's called the re-write/revision stage―which, for books, would be pre-publication, NOT post.


message 137: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Serban wrote: "More likely than not, that author will provide an edited version in the future"

The only problem with this idea (although I concur that most folks who discover errors will want to correct them) is that so many people cannot see the errors in their writing.

I am, generally speaking, far more lenient with people for whom English is not their native tongue. Although I can trot along in reasonably good conversational French, for example, I would be hard-pressed to write a book in that language. In fact, I would find it impossible!

I see far too many authors who do not see their own homophone problems ("loose" v. "lose" or "then" v. "than," just to name a couple), for instance, or their punctuation problems. Honestly, I think it's because they've looked at the manuscript so many times that it appears to be absolutely perfect. That's why that fresh set of eyes is so important.


message 138: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Serban wrote: "@ETA
With ebooks, I don't think revisions are ever done. ..."


I don't see what difference the format makes as to whether or not a book is fit for publication. Either it's good to go or it isn't. Print or ebook, once released, a book gets read.

Do you really think most readers will like having to re-DL an ebook because the "author" is continually "working" on his or her book―or worse, using the CUSTOMERS as free editors? Me? Nope, pass.


message 139: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Douglass (rdouglass) | 212 comments I have to come down firmly with Linda and Sharon. Just because game makers screw their customers and sell buggy versions is no excuse. If you publish a book, it should be publication-ready. If English is not your native language, then I hate to say it, but you are going to need an editor even more, someone who can polish your prose into standard English (if you read books traditionally published by writers from, say India or Africa for whom English is not the native tongue, you will notice that they do NOT read like instruction manuals translated from Chinese by a Bulgarian. They use good, standard English).

Ultimately, this attitude of turning all the readers into Beta readers is what may well destroy indie publishing.

And yes, if your book is riddled with errors in grammar, spelling, format, etc., it DOES get in the way of the plot. If you add in a bunch of anachronisms, I am out of there before I reach page 10. I work hard, as do my friends with whom I exchange editing services (note the barter system implied there? No cash changes hands), to make sure that my books are free of that sort of thing. And a LOT of reading and revision goes into making the plot solid and coherent, too.

So it takes me a year or more to produce a 40,000-word middle grade book. It's not about speed. It's about getting it right.

So no, I'm not willing to cut anyone any slack on this. If I want to be someone's beta reader, I will enter into an agreement with them to do so. If I pick your book out all on my own and pay anything for it, even 99 cents, I expect it to be ready for prime time.


message 140: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 02:26PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Rebecca wrote: "So it takes me a year or more to produce a 40,000-word middle grade book. It's not about speed. It's about getting it right.
"


I feel you, sister. My first novel was four years in the making, between research, writing and *many* rewrites. The sequel is running at about the same timeline. (My biggest problem is that research is so seductive; I can do it for hours and not notice the time passing.)


message 141: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (last edited Feb 28, 2013 02:29PM) (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Serban wrote: "So you guys buy a book without reading the sample pages first? I'm not hawkish on this issue. I don't see why EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, et all can be allowed to patch up their products post launch, b..."

Books are NOT comparable to software, espcially those designed for multi-platform/system use. Then throw in interaction with different network systems. Sorry, but your analogy fails.


message 142: by Sharon (new)

Sharon (fiona64) Serban wrote: "That's why sampling is important. It's very unlikely that the first 20 or 30 pages are error free, and then the rest of the book is littered with bad grammar. So again, it's up to the consumer. The..."

Your point in this regard is well-taken.


message 143: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Douglass (rdouglass) | 212 comments ETA: soon wrote: "Serban wrote: "So you guys buy a book without reading the sample pages first? I'm not hawkish on this issue. I don't see why EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, et all can be allowed to patch up their products..."

It did cross my mind that I've heard a lot of hating on MS for doing this!


message 144: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Douglass (rdouglass) | 212 comments Sharon wrote: "Serban wrote: "That's why sampling is important. It's very unlikely that the first 20 or 30 pages are error free, and then the rest of the book is littered with bad grammar. So again, it's up to th..."

True. But as an indie author myself, I worry about the growing number of people who say that it's not even worth looking, since most indie books are poorly edited. I don't know if it's "most," but if that's the perception, then we are all in trouble.


message 145: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Sharon wrote: "Serban wrote: "That's why sampling is important. It's very unlikely that the first 20 or 30 pages are error free, and then the rest of the book is littered with bad grammar. So again, it's up to th...

Your point in this regard is well-taken."


Yes, but it also assumes that every person has the time to read every sample for every book up for purchase. Maybe some do, but I don't most of the time.

Then you get the emails from Amazon that a certain book has an update or there's new language in the book description that the book was revised/re-edited/professionally edited/whatever. So one thinks, "OK, looks good". And it turns out to be not so.

Again, sorry, but I can't see a reader re-reading something every time there is an "update". I know that I wouldn't except under extraordinary circumstances.


message 146: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Serban wrote: "...All I'm saying is that the feedback should be one of empathy and it should strive for correction, not mockery. ..."

Empathy? How is a non-author reader supposed to empathise with an author about his/her book?

Moreover, understand that (1) a reader is not required to provide any feedback, and (2) if a reader chooses to do so, then the reader decides what that feedback will be, not you or any other author.


message 147: by Sharon (last edited Feb 28, 2013 03:55PM) (new)

Sharon (fiona64) ETA: soon wrote: "Empathy? How is a non-author reader supposed to empathise with an author about his/her book?
"


This brings up an interesting point.

I once wrote a review that starts "The nicest thing I can say about this book is that the author was very brave to publish it."

I am not making that up. I paid a good deal of money for a paperback book (there was no sample available) that an author had self-published. I *love* indie authors. I have read so much fabulous stuff by them; I want all of us to succeed and have a chance.

This book, though, was *ridiculous.* Continuity errors, anachronisms, French people named Jake ... it was painful. I actually could not stomach it anymore after reading 12 chapters. My review disclosed that I stopped reading and why. It happens to be the "most helpful" Amazon review of that particular title, but I digress.

I can pity someone who cannot see their own mistakes, but I cannot really empathize with them. Yes, we all make mistakes. I made one up-thread ... and as soon as it was pointed out, I fixed it by editing my post.

Many of the reviews of that book said "I overlooked the typos and grammar problems because the author is my friend/I love this story/I love this genre." I don't think that's doing a favor to readers, myself.

As I also said upthread, I lost a friend because I gave an honest, 3-star review of her book that had homophone problems, historical inaccuracies, a heroine who did not behave as a normal person would have in the exact same situation and circumstances. There *are* people who expect you to overlook stuff because you're their friend/you love the subject matter/you love the genre.

Me? I'm perfectly fine with honest negative reviews. Yes, we all love it when people love our books ... but the simple reality is that not everyone will. Readers don't owe us *anything.*


message 148: by Karma♥Bites ^.~ (new)

Karma♥Bites ^.~ (karma_bites) | 215 comments Serban wrote: "@ETA
I said empathy, not sympathy. ..."


*confused* OK... and I wrote/questioned your choice of "empathy". No offence, but you toss out post hoc ergo propter hoc but don't know the difference between empathy and sympathy?

I won't address the rest of your post because someone already beat me to it.

(Hiya, Linda! And bye... dinner await. ^_^)


message 149: by Pete (new)

Pete Morin | 38 comments If I published something that was littered with errors and crappy grammar, I wouldn't be making excuses about it and asking for a break.

I'd be embarrassed.

Mortified.

Paper-bag-over-the-head material.

Just to toss out some more Latin:

When it comes to bad writing, res ipsa loquitur.


message 150: by [deleted user] (last edited Feb 28, 2013 03:55PM) (new)

Linda wrote: "Sorry, I don't cut authors slack. They want my money and my time, then they'd better produce a quality product. If they don't, or can't, then they need to get into another business."

So you have pretty high standards, eh? The way you speak makes it sound as if you are a long-time, strict, experienced author. Good! Because as a reader, my favourite policy is to judge authors by their same standards. Since yours are high and "not even a chance"-type, I imagine you have quite a following and good reviews to back you up.

*Goes to check profile, comes back after a while*

...Are you freaking kidding me? You do not even live up to your own standards. Do you know how we call people who are like that in my country? We call them hypocrites.

It also does not surprise me at all that in one of your books a reader shelved your book as this: "flaky-authors-who-cause-fights, authors-who-bash-other-authors" something to which, I must say, I now have to agree.

It is so funny that you speak of "being ripped off"!

"If I take my car to the mechanic and he puts ATF in the crankcase and windshield wiper solution in the radiator, but then apologizes because he's just an amateur and can't afford to learn how to do it right, should I cut him some slack?"

No offense, but you have no idea with what you are talking about here. Technical problems must be solved in a scientific way, which is not at all like how a book should be made. I have seen works of perfect grammar, yet the creativity itself is non-existant or poor. I also have seen works of fanfiction which soar to the greatness of the books they pay homage to due to detail and originality.

"If the butcher doesn't know the difference between horse meat and beef, is that okay? Will I hurt his feelings if I point out what he's doing?"

A butcher who does not know what he is selling will soon find himself without a job - you do not need to be another butcher who sells lesser quality meat and in turns judges others' work by a higher standard. And by the way, if I enter your locale and I see that you cannot keep your meat clean, I would rather buy from the guy who does not know what kind of meat he is selling - at the very least I know I will not suffer from a potentially deadly bacterial infection.

"Why is it that so many would-be writers have so little respect for their art? They want people to cut them some slack, be nice to them, be gentle. How 'bout they just learn how to write???"

You know, the English have quite a neat saying to reply to this comment of yours: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

"I don't care what your native language is, what your income level is, what your family obligations are. If you want to be a writer who writes things people want to read, learn how to do it right. Quit making excuses for putting out a shoddy product. And for the love of all that's holy, quit whining when people tell you your writing needs improvement."

Then for the love of all that's holy, would you tell me where your masterpiece of literature is hidding? Because since you had these high standards and strict measures, I assume that all of these low-rate and subpar works are not really yours, well they cannot be. Unless you are a con artist masquerading as a book author, which would in all honesty be something really lame.

ETA:soon wrote: "Empathy? How is a non-author reader supposed to empathise with an author about his/her book?"

By taking into account what you are reading and whomever wrote it. I do not expect a Star Trek book by Gene Roddenberry to be of quality comparable to that of a science fiction author new to the scene. Why? Simple because they are not the same thing. One is something an established author has spend time crafting, there is a larger universe made of many books (and even other media, such as movies) and I have higher expectations for that. For the latter, I am far more leninent - I know it will not be the same thing, but I still hope to enjoy it and have a good read despite mistakes (which, sometimes, may be obvious to everyone but the writter).

There is also the fact that most book authors have the patience to writte down their ideas, something I do not have. So there is that too.

"Moreover, understand that (1) a reader is not required to provide any feedback, and (2) if a reader chooses to do so, then the reader decides what that feedback will be, not you or any other author."

Let me make an analogy. When your mother or father used to cook for you, you did not go around simply yelling at them "Mother/Father, you suck! This is really bad!". At least, not unless you wanted to be selfish and make them feel bad.

No. What you did instead is tell them: "I do not like the way you cooked this. I think you should take it out of the oven earlier."

Tell me: Which one is more conductive to having a good meal, an enjoyable one? Remaining silent/yelling insults or telling them what is actually wrong?

And while we are at it, I should mention I do not expect free food to be of the same quality to that of a 5-star chef, since I am already grateful that it is free and giving it to me out of their own kindness.


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