Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
Thanks, I'm very excited but also nervous. Have plenty of family there, so plenty of support! Will also have to go back to work soon, after over 2 years of maternity leave, not so excited about that. I would much rather be at home with my babies, but that's life, and I do enjoy my job so that makes it a softer blow.
Im probably onl 50 pages or so into a feast for crows. Im excited to see what they do with a storm of swords. once i finish insurgent im gonna make myself get through the fourth book so i can be caught up =)
Lor wrote: "Im probably onl 50 pages or so into a feast for crows. Im excited to see what they do with a storm of swords. once i finish insurgent im gonna make myself get through the fourth book so i can be ca..."How are you enjoying Insurgent? I am reading Divergent at the moment, it's not bad.
im on my phone so i cant quote but good luck on your move! i can imagine how hard it must be to go back to work after being on maternity leave for that long!
Insurgent is way better than Divergent imo! Divergent just focused so much on Beatrice's training that I kinda got bored with it until around 70% or so. Im enjoying Insurgent a lot more! lots of action =)
Lor wrote: "Insurgent is way better than Divergent imo! Divergent just focused so much on Beatrice's training that I kinda got bored with it until around 70% or so. Im enjoying Insurgent a lot more! lots of ac..."Thanks Lor. So far Divergent reminds me a lot of Ender's Game with all the training. I'm probably around 3/4 through and I hope to finish it today and start Insurgent, but lots of packing to do today, so we will see.
It's been so long since I read Ender's Game but I loved it so much! I need to re-read it. I'm about 40% through Insurgent. I'll probably finish it tonight =)
Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "@Kris - I did a book rating comparison on our rated books and we line up 82% of the time. ;0)"Hey Mary, did you read A Feast for Crows? I see tha..."
At the midway point in Feast of Crows...it focuses mainly on Ayra, Sansa, Jamie, Cersei, Sam, Brienne, the Ironborn...particularly Aysha (Arrya in the tv series). And the people in Dorn.
It's not as good as Storm of Swords, meanders a lot and not much action. Most of the action is off page.
In some respects I prefer the tv series.
Christine wrote: "Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "@Kris - I did a book rating comparison on our rated books and we line up 82% of the time. ;0)"Hey Mary, did you read A Feast for Cro..."
That's what I heard, Christine! I think that's another reason why I'm having a hard time getting into it. =/ I head that A Dance With Dragons is way better so I just need to push myself though it.
Lor wrote: "Im probably onl 50 pages or so into a feast for crows. Im excited to see what they do with a storm of swords. once i finish insurgent im gonna make myself get through the fourth book so i can be ca..."Martin has a whole lot going on. I am anxious to see how he ends it all.
i know its really kinky.. and maybe there are wayyy too many sex scenes which i juz had to speed read instead but overall, el james is a good writer. she knows where to stop and make readers want more :D I NEED to read christian's side of the story...pretty please :D
Wow. Why doesn't any other book in this genre generate this much commentary? I mean, there are so many books that are much better and more interesting that gets none of the discussion of this type. Am I the only one who has read Dare Diary by Amy Lee Black, for example?
Matthew wrote: "Wow. Why doesn't any other book in this genre generate this much commentary? I mean, there are so many books that are much better and more interesting that gets none of the discussion of this type...."Matthew that is an excellent question! I too wondered why FSOG had this affect on me and so many people I know.Is it the bad/good boy who is also a rich/philanthropic, handsome guy with the most penetrating eyes that melt a woman's heart? For women who enjoy the story,(ignoring the bad writing), I think it brings out the nurturing side in us that wants to help save him from his dark side. It took Ana, an innocent but strong woman to do it. I think you can compare it to his adoptive mother, the doctor, who nursed him back to health and helped him through therapy to speak. This is my take on it.
Matthew wrote: "Wow. Why doesn't any other book in this genre generate this much commentary? I mean, there are so many books that are much better and more interesting that gets none of the discussion of this type...."Honestly, the hype just snowballs. If something is vastly popular to a certain group, it generates that curiousity in others. Of course, it was popular to a certain group for a reason, so the others may not get the same thing out of it. If you followed this book from a year ago, the opinions here on GR have changed dramatically. At first, MOST of the reviews were positive, and the ratings were at something crazy, like a 4.5. Once it got into the media and the masses got a hold of it, the ratings sunk sort of low and the bad reviews/opinions are rampant. People get passionate about things that are extremely in their face.
I was reading some posts on another thread about FSoG and there was a lot of discussion about other BDSM books. As I was reading a thought hit me that should have registered before. Reading takes us out of our "real" heads. Every time we read fiction we enter into a world of fantasy. Books provide us a safe place to experience things we would never want to experience or have the opportunity to experience in real life. When I was reading every single Nancy Drew book as a child, I got to go on a mysterious journey of danger and suspense. I was confronted with would be ghosts, thieves and other unsavory characters. The books provided me a safe way to have adventures without danger to myself. Isn't this really what books like FSoG really do? Provide a safe place for fantasy without intruding on reality? When I read about Darcy in Pride and Prejudice, I fall in love with him each time I read the book. However, I am very happily married and would never even think about looking to fall in love with someone else. Just because I love the character of Darcy would have no bearing on my love for my husband, nor would it ever induce me to leave him or commit adultery. As a side note to the Game of Throne readers...could Jaime Lannister ever be redeemed enough to leave the villain category? As we have seen throughout the books, he is changing from the self-absorbed and cruel man he was at the beginning. What would it take for him to be redeemed in your (collective you) eyes?
Well said, Mary! I'm an avid romance reader, and fall in 'love' with my book boyfriends nearly every day. But my real husband is better than any book hero :) I think you're absolutely right. Books are a safe place for us to be different people. They are different than movies, even, in that respect. I would never put up with Christian in real life, but he sure was titillating to me while reading. And I haven't been in the convo, but I think Jaime has definitely started the turn toward redemption. His entire life has been lived with the Lannisters, for God's sake. He's never really known the meaning of compassion or selflessness. I think that Martin is headed toward major self analysis for him. I can't imagine him being hearts and flowers, but I already see him as vastly different than he was a t the beginning.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "People get passionate about things that are extremely in their face. ."Very good point Duchess Nicole. I remember when the Left Behind books came out. EVERYONE was reading and gushing about them. So I decided to pick up the first one and see what all the fuss was about. E.L.James' may not be the best writer in the world, but she is head and shoulders above the LaHaye guy. I think one of the lowest ratings I have given was to some Jane Austen sequel book that read like a story in a bad 3rd grade primer. However, I did finish that book. I could not even finish the Left Behind book...and I did try.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "And I haven't been in the convo, but I think Jaime has definitely started the turn toward redemption. His entire life has been lived with the Lannisters, for God's sake. He's never really known the meaning of compassion or selflessness. I think that Martin is headed toward major self analysis for him. I can't imagine him being hearts and flowers, but I already see him as vastly different than he was a t the beginning. "I am rooting for his redemption. Cersei, not so much. I do not think she can be redeemed, which brings up another issue...Do you think it is easier to buy the redemption when the character is of the opposite gender? As women, are we more forgiving of a male character than we are of one of our own? I am trying to recall a female character who started out as evil who was totally redeemed in my eyes. I also wonder if the opposite is true for male readers. Do they forgive female characters more readily than male?
You may be on to something there! I see Cersei as pretty unforgiveable. But really, Jaime is juat as bad as she is. Maybe because I expect a woman to be more compassionate or have more empathy? That's terrible of me to say, but usually women don't have the 'kill or be killed,' ruthless mentality.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "You may be on to something there! I see Cersei as pretty unforgiveable. But really, Jaime is juat as bad as she is. Maybe because I expect a woman to be more compassionate or have more empathy? ..."I am trying to come up with any female characters who began as EVIL and were redeemed - not just bitchy or selfish, but BAD. Can you think of any?
Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty generally read more romance than anything? And wh..."Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty generally read more romance than anything? And who reads other forms of ..."
I think it depends a great deal on what type of romance novels you are reading. Like all genres..there's a wide range of styles and tropes.
50 Shades fits firmly in the following tropes: Alpha Male or Damaged Alpha Male, Contemporary, Erotica (or porn with some plot), Wealth fantasy, and child abuse trauma (ie damaged male), plus a bit of the gothic.
If you don't like any of those tropes, you'll most likely hate 50 Shades. I have friends who despise the "wealth fantasy" trope (a la Pretty Woman) but love romance novels. Or they adore contemporary but aren't a fan of Alpha Male.
And a lot of people will only read "paranormal" romances.
I was on an erotica/Alpha Male-Damaged Male/contemporary binge - when I picked up 50 Shades - so it scratched my specific itch. But I wouldn't recommend it to anyone I know. It would have pushed their buttons in oh so many ways. Which makes it difficult to talk about. ;-)
Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad editing?? its both and in ur own comments ur actin..."I'm not fluent in text-speak unfortunately. Don't mean to offend. I'm just not. Gives me a headache.
So I may have missed half of what you wrote.
Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad editing?? its both and in ur own com..."i dont even know what ur talking about, but if ur talkin about how i use internet short hand then whatever if u cant understand it pass over it dont read it
Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty generally read more romance than any..."Your friends sound terribly supercilious.
its been nice chattin with you guys on this thread but i think im done. To many things are getting on my nerves anymore but its been fun :) and glad i made friends with a few of you
Mary wrote: "I was reading some posts on another thread about FSoG and there was a lot of discussion about other BDSM books. As I was reading a thought hit me that should have registered before. Reading takes..."I stopped considering Jaime a villian after A Storm of Swords. He did some amazing things in that book! I think he's just really conflicted because of his love for Cersei. I love Jaime though. I think he's a realistic hero... he is selfish but he still wants to do good deeds. All of his cruel actions have been for Cersei (for those that do not know, I've only read up until A Storm of Swords so not sure if anything has happened since then!)
On the romance novel topic, I don't read them because it's hard for me to get into them. Not to generalize or anything but I know most women enjoy romance focused things. I wasn't raised by a woman so I guess I never got "in touch" with that side of me.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "You may be on to something there! I see Cersei as pretty unforgiveable. But really, Jaime is juat as bad as she is. Maybe because I expect a woman to be more compassionate or have more empathy? ..."Cersei is pretty despicable but for some reason, I understand where she is coming from. She wants power and she doesn't want to be like other women who are supposed to do what they're told without question. Of course, I don't like how she goes about trying to get what she wants but I love that she has that type of personality.
Jenna wrote: "its been nice chattin with you guys on this thread but i think im done. To many things are getting on my nerves anymore but its been fun :) and glad i made friends with a few of you"Nooo!! Don't leave Jenna! =( I understand what you type!!!
Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty generally read mor..."I don't necessarily think that her friends are supercilious simply because they don't like certain romantic tropes. That would lump a lot of people into that category. It's just a matter of preference. I don't like aggressive females who chase after the heroes. So I get what you're saying, Christine. PNR is very different from contemporary or Historical. Most people who are avid romance readers consider them to be different genres altogether.
I grew up with my Dad and four brothers, so I think reading romance was my nod to girl-hood. Plus, I'm a sucker for a happy ending. I recently read The Book Thiefand loved most of the book, but was so upset about the ending. Granted, I knew it was a WWII novel. But it ruined the book for me.
Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad editing?? its both and in ur own com..."Same here. I don't text much, but since autocorrect is used, I feel like its actually more effort to use text-speak than not to. And reading text without periods or capitalization is difficult.
I don't think she's trying to be rude here. Just letting you know its difficult to follow you sometimes.
Mary wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "You may be on to something there! I see Cersei as pretty unforgiveable. But really, Jaime is juat as bad as she is. Maybe because I expect a woman to be more compassionate..."I really can't think of any redeemed evil females. Usually they get killed off. I think the evil women, like we were saying, are generally deemed forever evil. I don't know, though. Good think to think about, and I never have before!! Have you noticed a lot of times that a villainous woman's actions usually have an explanation behind them? As in, she's not JUST evil. There's a good reason for the depravity.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty gene..."I'm surprised you like the Fire and Ice series then, Nicole. =P
Lor wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that ..."I read more than just romance, though...I swear! I'm a big fantasy fan...Modesitt and Jordan, and my new favorite, Butcher. I actually really love Martin's writing. His earlier works were very dark. He has a couple of books published with his short stories and some of those are ugly! It's not necessarily that each book itself has to have the HEA, but when the entire story is said and done, I like for good to triumph, love to conquer and all that. It's those sad books that break your stinking heart that I can't handle. I don't want to be in despair when I finish a book, you know?
Lor wrote: "Cersei is pretty despicable but for some reason, I understand where she is coming from. She wants power and she doesn't want to be like other women who are supposed to do what they're told without question. Of course, I don't like how she goes about trying to get what she wants but I love that she has that type of personality. ."Oh I think Cersei is a GREAT character. She is very complex and her one redeeming value IMO is she loves her children. I also understand where she is coming from. Her life was never her own and she was always used as a political pawn. I just don't know if she is too damaged to be redeemed. Jaime has changed a lot and I think he will be redeemed in the end. It may take his life to do so, or he may have to perform some extraordinary service for the Starks to make up for Bran, but I think that is where the story is headed.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "I really can't think of any redeemed evil females. Usually they get killed off. I think the evil women, like we were saying, are generally deemed forever evil. I don't know, though. Good think to think about, and I never have before!! Have you noticed a lot of times that a villainous woman's actions usually have an explanation behind them? As in, she's not JUST evil. There's a good reason for the depravity. .."I posted a question on a romance board asking for examples of redeemed "evil" females. I have not gotten any responses yet. I have been at work, so haven't had time to really think this one over, but I will think more on it. I am SURE there have to be a few!
Lor loved the photo ... How can I get that on Facebook !!!! Lol
I have been avoiding making a statement about this thread, but I don't think I can stand it anymore. Why is everyone beating a dead horse? Some many people are offended with Christin's stalker personality, calling the character creepy, he's degrading to women, blah, blah, blah. I have to ask you all, is this your first romance, erotic book? This isn't the first book like this ever published and it certainly isn't going to be the last. My question is what the hell do you have against this author, that's where I think the problem lies.
I understand everyone has their own opinion, but don't you dare start a thread telling people not to read the books because you didn't like them. For the majority of you out there, if you didn't like the first book, why did you continue? Did you all honestly think it would change your mind? If you really dislike a character in the first book, the likelihood of you falling in love with them in the second or third is low.
I understand everyone has their own opinion, but don't you dare start a thread telling people not to read the books because you didn't like them. For the majority of you out there, if you didn't like the first book, why did you continue? Did you all honestly think it would change your mind? If you really dislike a character in the first book, the likelihood of you falling in love with them in the second or third is low.
GBHB A) please do not start your first post being very confrontational , especially if you had read the thread then you would realise that the original poster asked if you don't like the books , don't .... Not .. Don't read the book .. The original poster was in favour of the books
B ) please do not make generalisations about the rest of us who didn't like the books ... Actually I studied erotic fiction at uni and I have read a hell of a lot of them since both written in this century and way back past victorian age
C ) please don't assume that people that dislike this book have an ' issue ' with the writer ' we don't ... We just didn't think the book was very good
And before you try telling me the oft quoted idea that I should approach it with ' an open mind ' .... I did .... The book was readable , and instantly forgettable , readable yes ... Great book . No
Plus as has been often said the book was written as a trilogy ... Therefore even if we didn't like the first book , we read them all in order to truly understand if we ' got' the character on first viewing ... If a book is written like that it is like forming the character of mr darcy by reading a third of pride and prejudice
Lor wrote: "Christine wrote: "Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "Lor wrote: "Mary wrote: "@Kris - I did a book rating comparison on our rated books and we line up 82% of the time. ;0)"Hey Mary, did you re..."
That's what I'm doing now...pushing my way through it.
Took the advice of a friend, and am skimming the IronBorn/Dorn chapters. Martin has this tendency to introduce new character points of view halfway into his series. Right now, reading Vactorian or Victorian, the Iron-Born captain who hates his brother Euron, who he enabled to become King. It's plodding. Ceresi's chapter was actually more interesting, but she's written poorly, I think - too stupid. Jamie and Tyrion are written better.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad editing?? its both..."Yes, exactly. I just can't read text speak or internet short-hand well. It's because I have to constantly figure out what the context is. I can't do shorthand at all - never made sense to me.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that did not like Fifty gene..."Thank you, Duchess Nicole. That's what I was trying to explain. Not everyone likes the same thing.
The friends who dislike the Alpha Male trope - don't like controlling men for various reasons. And I've friends who hate Pretty Woman, because the male character is an insider trader and despicable - their individual experiences lead them to dislike him.
And like you? I'm not a fan of aggressive heroines who pursue men, it's something I don't understand, and well, I grew up with a brother and saw a lot of them.
Agree on Cersei of GoT...the character is very hard to like in the books and I find her unforgivable and a tad on the whiny side. While I do, oddly, like her in the tv series. Lena Headly is amazing.
Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad editing?? its both..."Didn't mean to offend. I'm dyslexic. It's hard for me to understand text-speak or internet shorthand. I'm probably the only one, it's why I didn't mention it until now.
It's embarrassing and I didn't want to explain why.
Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Jenna wrote: "how can it just be bad edit..."You're not the only one, so don't feel bad. I'm not even dyslexic and it still stumps me, lol. Honestly, I think it's courteous on a public forum to keep it readable. You weren't rude about it.
Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many of you that ..."I haven't watched the show yet. I've heard good things though. I want to do a reread of the series first, as I haven't read it since A Feast For Crows came out nearly seven years ago. I remember wondering about Jaimie, though. Arya and Jon Snow are my favorites.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "Christine wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How..."It may be better to watch the series without re-reading the books. I've noticed people like myself who didn't re-read the books during or right before the series, liked it better. It does vary in places.
I read GoT in 2005, Clash of Kings in 2005. Storm of Swords in 2010. Actually it was reading all those dark novels that I'm addicted to that caused the romance reading binge.
Started Feast in 2011, got bogged down, now picking it up again - because I want to read Dance. Unfortunately Dance ends on a cliff-hanger regarding a few characters. And we'll probably not get the next book until 2015...Martin tortures his devoted readers with long waits. So you are actually awarded by taking your time. By the time he finished the sixth book, the HBO series will either be cancelled or have caught up with him. ;-)
Mary wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I really can't think of any redeemed evil females. Usually they get killed off. I think the evil women, like we were saying, are generally deemed forever evil. I don't know, ..."The redeemed evil female actually does exist just not always in romance novels. It's quite common in noir novels - the femme fatale with the heart of gold or the hooker with a heart of gold.
Dashielle Hammett and Raymond Chandler loved this trope. As did Ian Fleming.
It's weird. Heterosexual women write about the rogue hero or bad boy with the heart of gold or redeemed man, while heterosexual men write about the rogue female or bad girl with a heart of gold. Homosexual women write about homosexual bad girls with heart of gold (I know I've read that too), and homosexual men write about homosexual bad boys...
So it may be sexual thing? People are turned on by the idea of saving their lover. Can I save him or her?
Will my love be strong enough to turn them around?
That said? There are actually a few redeemed heroines in romance novels..Sherry Thomas writes them. In Private Arrangements - the heroine does something awful to the hero but redeems herself. And we also see it in a few of Laurie McBain's novels - I think Tears of Gold features a female con artist with a hero who saves her.
Another one is Moonstruck Madness - she's a highwayman.
So yes, it's out there.
I've read them. But I've admittedly had to look. Jackie Collins did it with a few of her 1980s pot-boilers. And then there was Peyton Place.
Duchess Nicole wrote: "Lor wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Jenna wrote: "Duchess Nicole wrote: "I'm curious, and please don't let this offend anyone. This is an honest question. How many ..."Oh I love Jim Butcher too - although haven't tried anything but his Harry Dresden series. My other favorite is Kim Harrison's Rachel Morgan series. Huge fantasy fan dating back to JRR Tolkien and high school.
Adore genre. Also huge sci-fi fan.
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