Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
Kris wrote: "Christine wrote: "Mary wrote: "Kris wrote: "Ellie- absolutely! Even we, as readers, evolve with more experience. We learn how to recognize truly talented, as well as different styles of writing....."
It does.
I'm an eclectic reader. I love all genres. And all books. With few exceptions. Not a fan of True Crime - rather hate that genre. And I go in spasms. I've burned myself out on trashy romance novels. A few years ago I burned myself out on mystery novels.
So I'm not a picky reader. I do know what is well-written and what is not. I know Twilight, Da Vinci Code, all of James Patterson's novels, most of Anne Rice, all of Danielle Steele, Jackie Collins, and
50 Shades are the twinkies and hostess cupcakes of the book world. Or creme puffs. No substance. Poorly developed characters. And repetitive. But I've also enjoyed them at times. They are fun. Just like it is fun to eat a chocolate bar or a bowl of ice cream or
a hostess cupcake (although hostess cupcakes make me want to hurl...). ;-)
We're too judgmental of books. Books don't have to be well-written to be fun. Haven't you ever watched a dumb tv show or had a guilty pleasure? ;-)
EXACTLY Christine!! Thank you! Silliness, over-the-top, never gonna happen in real life books/movies can just be FUN. We can enjoy it without having to justify why, and without being judged for our supposed lack of literary acknowledgment.
Lorie wrote: "Kris wrote: "Just because women enjoyed the book does not mean they want to find someone like Christian in the real world. It's a work of fiction and he is a fictional character. I think it's alway..."I haven't spoken to that many women claiming this, but there are some. Most of them are able to seperate real from fake.
I feel as though these women saying they want a "Christian" are referring to his better qualities, and yes, he did have some. They want a man to put them first and make them feel important. Not to mention the sex appeal provided by his character.
When we read, most of the time we are being told what to feel, whether we realize it or not. If the character thinks someone is sexy, so do we. We trust the writer to take us throuh her story and accept almost any situation. You kind of just go with it, as long as you're enjoying it enough.
Unlike real life, Christian in confined between the pages of a book. So EL wouldnt let him hurt Ana and readers know that. We can't say the same about a man with his sort of issues in real life. So that's just why I feel that most can seperate books from reality.
Kris wrote: "Unlike real life, Christian in confined between the pages of a book. So EL wouldnt let him hurt Ana and readers know that. We can't say the same about a man with his sort of issues in real life. So that's just why I feel that most can seperate books from reality..."
Good point and true. So many of the heart wrenching type books where the underdog faces incredible odds and gets his/her heart's desire just do not happen that often in real life. Sometimes suspension of belief is OK. Take Stephen King for example...sentient cars, pets that come back to life, the devil blowing up a town, etc. We suspend belief because we know this is fantasy and yet...King has the ability to make us BELIEVE that fantasy as we read. Once the book is finished, we return to reality. It is entertainment, not a guide to real life.
Mary wrote: "Kris wrote: "Unlike real life, Christian in confined between the pages of a book. So EL wouldnt let him hurt Ana and readers know that. We can't say the same about a man with his sort of issues in ..."Exactly. We have non-fiction to rely on for reality.
Or rather some non-fiction....have you seen the non-fiction best-seller list? Oh dear..the non-fiction best-seller list is just plain scary at times. I've been deliberately ignoring it.
Mary wrote: "Lorie wrote: "I did read the entire book, however, I didn't read the second and third. I don't see how she ended up with all the power when she did everything she didn't want to do to begin with. T..."u keep saying how u have to read all 3 well ive read the first 2 didnt read the 3rd because in my eyes it should catch and keep ur attention from book one, i can honestly say the only reason i even continued on to book 2 is because the cliff hanger it left on.. and of course my ocd about having to finish books lol (and i will adventually read 3 but i needed a break)i just think its not fair to condemn someone else because they are putting how they feel and havnt read all of them (sorry this may not make sense the bf keeps talkin and im tryin ton concentrate on this and him haha)
Jenna wrote: "u keep saying how u have to read all 3 well ive read the first 2 didnt read the 3rd because in my eyes it should catch and keep ur attention from book one, i can honestly say the only reason i even continued on to book 2 is because the cliff hanger it left on.. and of course my ocd about having to finish books lol (and i will adventually read 3 but i needed a break)i just think its not fair to condemn someone else because they are putting how they feel and havnt read all of them (sorry this may not make sense the bf keeps talkin and im tryin ton concentrate on this and him haha)"
I disagree Jenna. If one is speaking to the character of the hero and only gets a partial profile from which to judge, they are not being accurate in that judgment. If we only read half of Pride and Prejudice, then very few people would like Fitzwilliam Darcy. A character that does not grow throughout the narrative is a very boring character.
Mary wrote: "Jenna wrote: "u keep saying how u have to read all 3 well ive read the first 2 didnt read the 3rd because in my eyes it should catch and keep ur attention from book one, i can honestly say the only..."Well in my personal experience of reading the first book, I was not wanting to continue reading. I realize that some characters MAY change or develop but I'm not going to force myself to push through a series where the first book didn't capture or interest me. I also never said the characters wouldn't change. Like I said in one of my previous posts, it's already predictable that Christian is going to change in some way. It happened in Twilight and since this book series IS based on that I knew it would probably happen. I'm glad that someone said that it was the "hostess cupcake" of books because that's exactly what it is at least in my opinion.
im just not into an arguing mood tonight, everyone has their opinons isnt that what we keep going back to in this thread? she openly admitted she only read book one so OBVIOUSLY she is only giving her opinons on that book and i havnt been payin attention the last few hrs but when i came back and played catch up it just seemed like everyone was tag teaming her over her own thoughts about it
Lorie wrote: "Well in my personal experience of reading the first book, I was not wanting to continue reading. I realize that some characters MAY change or develop but I'm not going to force myself to push through a series where the first book didn't capture or interest me. I also never said the characters wouldn't change. Like I said in one of my previous posts, it's already predictable that Christian is going to change in some way. It happened in Twilight and since this book series IS based on that I knew it would probably happen. I'm glad that someone said that it was the "hostess cupcake" of books because that's exactly what it is at least in my opinion.."
...and that is fine. No one says you have to suffer through the next two books if you do not want to. However, judging girls who say that they like Christian based on the BEGINNING instead of the finished product is not really fair to those readers. I agree with you it was a fluff book that had huge editing problems. But it IS just a book.
Jenna wrote: "im just not into an arguing mood tonight, everyone has their opinons isnt that what we keep going back to in this thread? she openly admitted she only read book one so OBVIOUSLY she is only giving ..."I am sorry you feel that way Jenna. But I felt a little attacked myself.
oh???? well from what i seen i seen a few ppl ganging up on her about her opinons but other then that i dont see any attacks just more ppl(everyone myself included) giving their opinons
and im not cussing and carrying on like i normally do so i dont feel like im being very threatning if im the one that has made u feel attacked
Jenna wrote: "and im not cussing and carrying on like i normally do so i dont feel like im being very threatning if im the one that has made u feel attacked"You were not Jenna. :0)
How does Christian change towards the end of the series? I've seen excerpts and it appears to me that he is just as insane as he is in the first book; specifically excerpts that have to do with children and having a small child myself it's quite frightening. Also, I'm curious how I offended you? I'm stating my opinion in a thread that is about the first book of the series, not the last two books of series.
The only reason I spoke up is bc one of the comments claimed that "young women who want men like Christian are absolutely sickening." ...pretty harsh. I liked the books, but I don't want a "Christian" although my sister is in love with his "character." Is she sickening? No, she's an intelligent young woman who likes to indulge in fantasy but keeps a level head about it. As I believe most of these Christian lovers do.I would never make a statement such as all women who are attracted to vampire heros disgust me...first of all, I'm one of them ;), and secondly, that's just a crude and biased judgement.
All women who love Christian, I'm certain, have their own specific reasons for doing so. They know he's fake so what's the differnce?? Why would that bother anyone? Life is hard sometimes and since fiction is made from fantasy, anyway, why can't one fantasize??
Lorie wrote: "How does Christian change towards the end of the series? I've seen excerpts and it appears to me that he is just as insane as he is in the first book; specifically excerpts that have to do with chi..."State specifically what excerpts you have read that lead you to the conclusion that Christian is insane at the end of the story and a danger to be around children. Calling my analogy "terrible" is insulting. You certainly have the right to state that the Christian of the 1st book was an A number one jerk. He was. But the readers who you were sickened by their praise of Christian are readers who have read the whole thing. They are not saying they love the beginning Christian. They love the end product. Since you really do not know the end product, how can you be sickened by other people's opinions? I just think the judgment is very harsh and not based on all available information. You may very well feel the same way if you were to read all of the books, but I just think it is unfair to judge other people's tastes on something you have only sampled.
Kris wrote: "The only reason I spoke up is bc one of the comments claimed that "young women who want men like Christian are absolutely sickening." ...pretty harsh. I liked the books, but I don't want a "Christi..."yes cg is fake but there are ppl out there just like him
Mary wrote: "Lorie wrote: "How does Christian change towards the end of the series? I've seen excerpts and it appears to me that he is just as insane as he is in the first book; specifically excerpts that have ..."Lorie, you didn't read the book. It's about his redemption because of Ana's love. There is so much to this story. I'm sorry if you didn't understand what made him tick and change. Ana made him see what real love was about.He certainly was not insane, as you put it.
and im not defending anyone i just didnt think it fair how she was gettin picked on and what she recently put is exactly why i didnt think it fair this thread is about book number one, now yes i know ppl go on and continue and finish the trilogy but not all so just because some have doesnt mean others have
Jenna wrote: "Kris wrote: "The only reason I spoke up is bc one of the comments claimed that "young women who want men like Christian are absolutely sickening." ...pretty harsh. I liked the books, but I don't wa..."Totally true, but these women claim to love "Christian" the character, no one has mentioned a real man with his persona. I think it's crazy to say that women who love Christian are sickening. Obviously, people can have their own opinion, but my opinions aren't offending anyone or making false judgements.
If you hate christian's character, that's fine. But who throws out insults to other readers for having a different preference? Over a book?
and i can understand how u were wanting to defend ur sister Kris :)
Kris wrote: "The only reason I spoke up is bc one of the comments claimed that "young women who want men like Christian are absolutely sickening." ...pretty harsh. I liked the books, but I don't want a "Christi..."I love the Christian who is kind, a humanitarian, and loves Ana so much that he would do anything for her. And he did. He changed because of her love. Ana was a strong woman who I admired. Yes, they enjoyed some variations in love making, however, it was their choice. Some people like it missionary style, some role play and others enjoy what Ana & Christian liked to do.
I personally have no problem whatsoever about someone giving an opinion if they didn't finish the trilogy. I wouldn't even mind if they didn't finish the first book. But the insults are unnecessary and completely unrelated to this argument. This is about the books, not the fans.
okay im putting this and i know its gonna start an argument but oh well. her POV that cg is sickening is from book one...and in book one his personality is sickening yes she is basing it on other things she's heard about book 2 and 3 (which i dont agree i agree u need to read it urself and form ur own opinon)but honestly think about it CG from book one would u really want that in a man? basing it ONLY on book one
Because he's controlling and manipulative? Is it wrong to think that women who actually find that "character" attractive are kinda nuts? Even if he HAS changed it's a known fact that abuse is a cycle. Once again, my opinion. I never said specifically any of YOU were nuts or that your sisters were nuts obviously.
Lorie wrote: " It happened in Twilight and since this book series IS based on that I knew it would probably happen."Just wanted to touch on this statement Lorie, while EL James did admit that she was inspired to write the books after reading the Twilight series, these books are not BASED on the Twilight books. That is like saying that the story itself was derived from the Twilight story. Yes, they are both romances based on bad boy tragic heroes, but so are Wuthering Heights, Rebecca, and Pride and Prejudice.
And I think that referring to the series as a "hostess cupcake" of books is just another way of saying it has a HEA ending, which is present in most sought after romance novels. If the story was as predictable as you say, I don't think the books would have been as successful.
It was a fan fiction was it not? All of the characters are extremely if not exactly alike to the characters in Twilight.
Jenna, you and I have different opinions but you have been nice and I like hearing your opinions. Don't feel you'll start a fight :)She didn't call CG sickening, she called the young girls who like him sickening. I think it would be better to say that about the book, not the fans.
And since I can only speak for myself, no, I wouldnt want to be with someone who has as much emotional darkness as Christian. But I have no problem saying that I liked his fictional character a lot. But I would draw the line there, loving him in a book and only a book. Bc after all, that's all it is.
I've mentioned before that I'd run like the wind if someone brought me to a red room of pain. But I had fun reading about it ;)
Jenna wrote: "yes cg is fake but there are ppl out there just like him ."Jenna, Since we are agreeing on so many things today, I will only add that yes CG is "fake" but so are all fictional characters. That doesn't make them any less attractive or desirable. (as compared to certain hot bad boy vampires per se ;))
Kris u also know i dont usually hold back and just like u i like hearing ur thoughts on stuff and i agree i thought christian was sickening not the girls did it irrtate me my own sister liked cg yes its cuz hes icky lol did i introduce her to other books to get her away from the obsession grey yes i did lol but i do agree with u she shouldnt of insulted the fans the book by all means insult it everyone here knows i do lol i just felt it wrong for so many adult woman ganging up on the woman do i think she egged it on a lil yes but still and i did see her point on a few things
Lorie wrote: "It was a fan fiction was it not? All of the characters are extremely if not exactly alike to the characters in Twilight."No, I don't see the comparison at all. How are the characters alike? Other than the fact that they are both males and females, or male vampires and females that fall in love. Ok, I will say that the male leads both have endless amounts of money, and bad boy tendencies, but so do millions of other romance story lines. Where do you see the comparisons?
Lorie wrote: "Because he's controlling and manipulative? Is it wrong to think that women who actually find that "character" attractive are kinda nuts? Even if he HAS changed it's a known fact that abuse is a cyc..."I actually think it is pretty judgmental, actually, to state that women who like his "character" are sickening. Honestly, if EL made him into a complete psychotic, abusive, lunatic, I may be able to understand your statement more, but I still wouldn't put readers into that category.
I feel like EL gave Christian enough damage to seem a bit crazy and have that edge, but also enough sweetness and sex appeal to balance it out so readers wouldn't despise him. Obviously, this hasn't worked completely. But I know it's fake and I took it as fun rather than degrading.
Karen wrote: "Lorie wrote: "It was a fan fiction was it not? All of the characters are extremely if not exactly alike to the characters in Twilight."No, I don't see the comparison at all. How are the characte..."
karen, i have to agree there is alot that match up i think there is even a thread here on Goodreads that list them all
Karen wrote: "Jenna wrote: "yes cg is fake but there are ppl out there just like him ."Jenna, Since we are agreeing on so many things today, I will only add that yes CG is "fake" but so are all fictional chara..."
lol i do believe i know what hot bad ass vamp guy ur talkin about :P
karen u brought to my attention just because we dont see eye to eye on this book doesnt mean we cant agree on other books :) and see that right there u and i can argue all day long about this book but atleast we can come together and appreciate another book and not hate on each other
Yep, you sure do!!!
It's all good. I don't hold back at all and I'm perfectly fine with saying things that others will not say. I've already said many times though that I didn't finish the series and I don't intend to. Once again though, I'm making comments on the first book not the third book.
Jenna wrote: "Kris u also know i dont usually hold back and just like u i like hearing ur thoughts on stuff and i agree i thought christian was sickening not the girls did it irrtate me my own sister liked cg ye..It's all good!! I think everyone was just defending themselves and trying to explain why it's not so bad to like Christian. If you come to a thread mostly dominated by fans of the book, an insult to the actual readers will probably get a response from everyone. And it works both ways with us not offending the ones who hate it.
I feel like the women on this thread are all strong-minded and would kick ass if any man mistreated them. I don't think anyone's integrity is in question on here... whether they love fictional Christian or not.
Kris wrote: "I feel like EL gave Christian enough damage to seem a bit crazy and have that edge, but also enough sweetness and sex appeal to balance it out so readers wouldn't despise him."Kris.. you are exactly right!!! It worked for me!!
Lorie wrote: "It's all good. I don't hold back at all and I'm perfectly fine with saying things that others will not say. I've already said many times though that I didn't finish the series and I don't intend to..."Lorie... You don't have to hold back. It would be nice if you didn't offend people you don't know, but you obviously can if you want to.
Lorie wrote: "It's all good. I don't hold back at all and I'm perfectly fine with saying things that others will not say. I've already said many times though that I didn't finish the series and I don't intend to..."i am the same way i dont suger coat anything. u can look through out this thread for proof of that but i do have enough respect for other ppl everyone of these girls can tell u that too i have never once changed my outlook or my opinons they have made me see things i didnt notice but my opinons have no changed and yes i argue with each and everyone of them here but i dont do it in a shitty way i stood up for u because i felt it was wrong for them to gang up on u like they did. but yea i feel like u egged it on in some things u said i think if u would have conducted urself in a more mature manner they would have taken u a little more seriously and not jumped all over ya and u are def not the first on in this thread to " say things others will not"
ughh and damn it i said i didnt wanna argue tonight i have a massive headache and the arguin is just commin out anyways
Well, I knew I was going to get some feedback, haha. This thread is titled "don't like it, don't read it" after all =P
and see thats something else everyone needs to realize this thread was based on hate for the book so the ones who love it cant jump the ppls ass who dont not saying u do all the time just sayin u gotta listen to the other side too
Nah it's all good. I get that everyone has their own opinion. I give my friends crap all the time about the book. I'm just stating my opinion.
Jenna wrote: "ughh and damn it i said i didnt wanna argue tonight i have a massive headache and the arguin is just commin out anyways"Lol, you know, it's so funny how none of us know each other, but we create 2 races of people here: Ones that hate the book and ones who don't. We may have everything else under the sun in common, but our love/hate for Christian freaking Grey is all there is on that exists here!
Silly really. I dont think there's anything wrong with disliking the book. If I'd hated the first, I wouldn't have continued on, either. But I def don't want to argue over a book here. I was just enjoying reading everyone's take. On the BOOK. So when it became about the readers, it threw me off. But it's ok, really.
Well yeah I didn't mean to be personally offensive. I guess I'm just so used to talking about it with friends and they don't care what I say, haha. =) My bad on that!
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Totally understand it being fiction. I have a problem though when majority of the women I have talked who have read this book say they want a man like Christian.