Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
Valerie wrote: "Anyone who considers this good, or even adequate, writing is delusional! People who finds this crap titillating must have very sad and boring lives indeed. (shaking my head) That comment sounds much more like a personal attack than a criticism of the books. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is unfair to make comments like that about people simply because they don't share your opinion.
Your comments would be better received were they made with a more professional demeanor.
Karen wrote: "Valerie wrote: "Anyone who considers this good, or even adequate, writing is delusional! People who finds this crap titillating must have very sad and boring lives indeed. (shaking my head) That ..."
Valerie, that's so unkind. I'm sure you really didn't mean to say it that way. I'm going to tell you that this book has brought back the passionate love between me and my husband we lost because of cancer and other sickness. We are close to 80 years of age and I feel like we found the fountain of youth...not with the dark side of this story, but with the gentle vanilla side. I say, thank you E L James! :)
Valerie wrote: "Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book..."Hey Valerie - lighten up. I didn't like the book either but insulting the people who did is soooo not cool. I've enjoyed this discussion thread because for the most part it is lacking the vitriol that you find on most message boards. Let's try and keep it that way - OK?
Valerie wrote: "Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book..."Wow, Valerie! I enjoyed the FSoG series, so I must have a "very sad and boring" life? Thank you for filling me in. I did not know that one could inherent such qualities by simply enjoying a work of fiction! Up until this point, this discussion thread has been an enjoyable one where I found everyone to be respectful of contrasting point of views...it has lost that, along with any shred of intelligence...I'd rather spend my free time elsewhere. Enjoy your close-mindedness, miss Valerie.
Valerie wrote: "You are plain wrong. It is one of the most poorly written books I have even read (well, I could not finish it so not sure this qualifies as "read"). Anyone who considers this good, or even adequate, writing is delusional! People who finds this crap titillating must have very sad and boring lives indeed. (shaking my head) "WOW!
Kris wrote: ".I'd rather spend my free time elsewhere. Enjoy your close-mindedness, miss Valerie."
Stick around Kris. I am sure Valerie will end up being a drive-by poster. The discussion has been relatively free of attacks and vitriol. I actually feel kind of sorry for people who feel the need to personally attack the reading tastes of others. As a dedicated bibliophile, I am just happy people are reading.
We are all friends here, are we not? Thanks for the support comrades!
Karen wrote: "We are all friends here, are we not? Thanks for the support comrades!"We have your back!
You gals are great! ;)
Kimberley wrote: "OK, I see a lot of points here but I consider this to be a marmite book, you either love it or hate it, what I really dislike is it being referenced as 'mummy porn', like middle aged women with kid..."Kimberly well said...
Bill wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "The people who hate Fifty Shades of Grey are OBSESSED with hating and bashing it. Almost as much, as we people who love the Trilogy are obsessed with loving it. Whe..."i am not obsessed with loving the trilogy i just love them no obsessing here
Karen wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Who reported she didn't have her book edited? "I believe that she said it herself. She self-published it as fan fiction. It was originally only in epub format."
It was done as a WIP (work in progress) fanfiction. These are actually edited but in an alternative manner and by amateurs. Basically what happens is you post a chapter, people read it and comment on it. In some instances the writer will send it to betas in the fandom, (betas are fans who edit each others work). These people check it for inconsistencies, then they publish it to the forum.
That's why the hang-gliding is detailed, as is the
music play-list.
I've never read Twilight fanfic, but I've read fanfic in other forums, mainly in association with television series and it's an interesting medium. Particularly on the internet. In some respects - you get better feedback. Imagine publishing chapter by chapter of your novel as you write it and getting instant feed back and questions on what should happen next?
I think a lot of readers' problem with 50 Shades is it doesn't fit what they are used to. The traditional style. Fanfic tends to be more experimental - such as text-messaging, a contract replicated in full, a song playlist, and geeky details of items such as hang-gliding and helicopters. Also the use of slang - "shouty capitals" is an example. It's less formal and conservative in style. Looser. If you have been taught that good writing must fit these specific writing rules, and never break them, you will most likely scoff at 50 Shades. (ie. Never reproduce a contract in a book, don't do text messaging).
That said, I do agree 50 Shades is repetitive in places, but this is true of romance novels. The last one I read by Sylvia Day was equally repetitive.
Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book of history, s..."Artists have suffered criticism for a long time. You are very generous in your words. I liked the books, the writing style was not a technical exercise but I liked it. Younger audiences of the MTV generation like this style of writing. (By the way the MTV Generation is not just teens, it is 20 and 30 year olds, hipsters) How many of you had fathers or mothers who didn't like the music you listened to? Rock music is not complicated either, it is mostly 3 chords...but look how that style of music has blossomed, remember when Elvis could show his hips on Ed Sullivan??...if you ever compare rock music to classical you are going to have the same problems you have with Fifty Shades, people who like classical don't think rock is music...people are allowed to hate the books if they don't like it...just don't expect everyone else to hate them...people are allowed to like the books too...Graffiti may not look like art to those who like classic Expressionism... so there is always this gap...People who listen to Classical think Rock is not music...so yeah there is always an opinion...we are all individuals after all. Bad reviews always help an author to grow creatively so hating the book helps the author strengthen her craft. The book has been optioned by a major motion picture studio to be made into a film...
For those who love the books, it is good news but at least for those you who hated the books you know not to go see the movie.
Christine- great points all around. Since this was derived from fanfic, all of the elements present in these books make sense. I've yet to read any fan fiction, so what you've mentioned definitely sheds light on patterns I've seen in many books!
I read all 3 books and they were more than just "sex" books. Christian and Ana's story was in there too!! I loved their evolution as a couple. It was endearing. Read the story, don't get caught up in the sex. Is there some kick ass sex scenes? Yep, but also much more.
Christine wrote: "Karen wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Who reported she didn't have her book edited? "I believe that she said it herself. She self-published it as fan fiction. It was originally only in epub format."
It ..."
Well said...
Sara wrote: "I read all 3 books and they were more than just "sex" books. Christian and Ana's story was in there too!! I loved their evolution as a couple. It was endearing. Read the story, don't get caught up You
You said it, girl!!
Ellie wrote: "Sara wrote: "I read all 3 books and they were more than just "sex" books. Christian and Ana's story was in there too!! I loved their evolution as a couple. It was endearing. Read the story, don't ..."
I concur, it turned out quite a love story by the third book.
Mary wrote: "Valerie wrote: "You are plain wrong. It is one of the most poorly written books I have even read (well, I could not finish it so not sure this qualifies as "read"). Anyone who considers this good, ..."I'm sorry you feel that way. It's important to hear everyone's opinion. That's what is so great about the USA!! Did I miss something in our discussion, Ladies??
Mary wrote: "Karen wrote: "We are all friends here, are we not? Thanks for the support comrades!"We have your back!"
Absolutely!!
Kris wrote: "Christine- great points all around. Since this was derived from fanfic, all of the elements present in these books make sense. I've yet to read any fan fiction, so what you've mentioned definitely ..."You ever get a chance - check out fanfic.net - although it is not as good as it once was. Very experimental in narrative form and structure.
Often going in greater detail than most traditional novelists would. For example - we get Christian's pov at the end of book 3. Or you get the trip to the psychologist. Or the entire playlist of songs on her ipad. Or the detailed BDSM contract. Those are details fans often share with each other and expect.
And you'll have every angle wrapped up. Plus graphic sex scenes.
What is great about 50 Shades popularity is it opens the door to self-publishing, fanfiction, and other non-mainstream/alternative means. Allows more voices to be heard. And it jumped outside the formula that many romance genre novelists are taught to write or told they have to write in.
Kathleen Woodwiss and Rosemary Rodgers did the same thing back in the 70s. I think that is what many people are talking about when they say the book is ground-breaking. It's done some things that you don't see many people do in the romance genre. And in a time period where women's sexual health has become grounds for male political debate, and men call women sluts for using birth control...
Christine wrote: "Kathleen Woodwiss and Rosemary Rodgers did the same thing back in the 70s. I think that is what many people are talking about when they say the book is ground-breaking. It's done some things that you don't see many people do in the romance genre. And in a time period where women's sexual health has become grounds for male political debate, and men call women sluts for using birth control... "Good point.
Sara wrote: "I read all 3 books and they were more than just "sex" books. Christian and Ana's story was in there too!! I loved their evolution as a couple. It was endearing. Read the story, don't get caught up ..."thank you someone who finally agrees with me
Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was on the pill, I paid for it myself. It didn't brake the bank for me. If people can buy all the high tech stuff that costs hundreds of dollars, they can pay for their own birth control. That should have never been an issue, but that's dirty politics for you.
Akiko wrote: "Younger audiences of the MTV generation like this style of writing. (By the way the MTV Generation is not just teens, it is 20 and 30 year olds, hipsters)"Not all of them do, sorry ;) Not just me but other people I knwo who are my age & younger have had issues with the writing (some of them still liked the book & others didn't & I had one or two who felt very 'meh' about the whole thing). I was on the dislike side for almost every reason mentioned EXCEPT the erotic part - that wouldn't have bothered me if it was well written... well, I may have been bothered but not in the way I mean at the moment ;P
Christine: Thank you for bringing up fanfic.net (also, I'd like to mention fictionpress.com for non-fanfics) - I really hope that James' success opens the door for the better works out there on the internet to become more widely recognised and talked about in more than just hushed whispers and online forums. I wnat the world media to actually recognise that there are some great works out there but the publishing world can be a right 'bee with an itch'.
I despised the 1st book for it's poor character development, poor writing style and obvious errors & slip ups but I applaud James for making that leap and achieving what so many hope for. Doesn't mean I'm going to 'waste' my money and time on trudging through the other two books, sorry - but I have a long book list to get through ;D
As to the discussions and differing opinions, well... no publicity's bad publicity ;D
i myself hate the books, but damn im not gonna act like that. I may get shitty with my outlook but its towards the book and author not other fans....thats just insane....sounds like someone needs a good ole linchin lmao i may not agree with alot of stuff karen says but that doesnt give me any right to attack her. sorry karen that girl was being rude!!!
I'm amazed at the length of attacks and apologies regarding this trilogy! I mean, who really gives a frog's fat ass about everyone's opinion, pro or con regarding the 'actual writing' acumen of the author, and the personal attacks about if one actually likes the story? If it's not for you, move on, please!
Hayley wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Younger audiences of the MTV generation like this style of writing. (By the way the MTV Generation is not just teens, it is 20 and 30 year olds, hipsters)"Not all of them do, sorry ..."
Very well said...if you read the Twilight books, the email messages, the contract, this is what I meant about the MTV Generation and Younger Generation. Even the phrasing is used by almost everyone I know who works in the music industry (thus my comparison of classical to rock and roll, people who like classical are not always fans of rock and roll for the same reasons many do not like these books. Rock and roll breaks a lot of rules of music composition. It is repetitive in it's lyrics.) Did anyone read the Lauren Myracle books like TTYL, BFF, TTFN? Books telling a story through text messaging... FSOG was fan fiction from Twilight which is a young adult series and if any of you remember the books, had a certain writing style...and if any of your read the Twilight books Stephenie Meyer's writing was also written this exact way, but to be honest I think James's writing is better...I do believe when you do fan fiction many writers try to capture the style and feel of what brought fans to Twilight, thus why she wrote it the way she did...so James was writing from feedback from these Twilight fans who liked Meyers way of writing, and if you ever saw the red carpet of the Twilight movies or the Teen Choice Awards they are lined with teens and moms. I think it was in poor taste to call this book mommy porn. The truth about writing is flow...sometimes writing technically correct can actually destroy a story, so you have to break rules and sometimes do things that others will see as flaws because to tell it like at a campfire to get the best story you have to break away from certain rules...technical writing sometimes sucks. Anyone who has ever had to write a movie script based on a book understands this well. This is why sometimes the books are better then the film...Writing is changing, especially in the age of texting, Facebook, and ebooks. Literary sales are dropping in Adult books by 18 percent in 2010 and up 30 percent in Young Adult in that same year... this is going to effect the way writers write when Publishers want to see Adult books they can sell to the YA audience...anyone that is here who has a Publishing deal with a Publisher knows this to be true, Partials was written by Publishers request not the author... creative freedom is tough in a world based on economics...so there is a response that readers are buying books written a certain way...and of course make a living. Writers have lots of hurdles to jump through. Economics sometimes influence art...so the entire buy public is saying this is what they like...for James it was a fan fiction of Twilight, though FSOG is not a YA book is was based on YA characters and YA writing. I am glad people are stating the reasons they hated the books, it can give James new feedback to write books for a much more expanded audience. Writing is a tough profession and has lots of politics very much like movies, television, acting, and music. It is good to see that people are talking about this good or bad...and yes, bad reviews are good.
lol akiko u always write a book when u comment not sayin its bad haha but now i must go read it all :)
I mean, I really like the books. The last one probably the most, but I'm not really offended at the sexual content, I find it pretty fascinating all together.
okay just read it( akiko's comment), and i agree with you. one thing i wanna say from something u said (i personally noticed it where im from) u said adult books sales have dropped. I noticed ppl in my book club and other friends and friends of friends are reading more YA book Then the books that are actually aimed at their age range. I think its because the writing style for that age group (YA) are more of a romance and happiness (which is what alot of older woman crave)but i have noticed that if u go to walmart in the book section (walmarts around here anyways not sure if its the same in other places) the YA section has doubled and is pretty much taking over the other sections i use walmart as en example since they have limited store display areas for books compared to an actual book store
Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was on the pill, I paid for it mysel..."Actually Ellie, the birth control issue had nothing to do with the government paying for it. It had to do with HEALTH INSURANCE companies whose premiums the women PAY FOR providing it in their plan. Georgetown University is a Catholic university and they would not let workers or students get birth control through the health insurance plans their workers and students PAID FOR either in their salary package or their tuition.
Ah Akiko, I have never read the Twilight books (I flicked through my little sister's briefly and was put off after the 1st chapter) this may be why FSOG's style of writing annoyed me then. I know what you mean about fanfic writers emulating the author's style, you see it a lot as that's the style they've read the books in and fallen in love with the characters in so to have them outside of that possibly wouldn't give quite the same effect.I don't like the titles that the press give out & that seem to cling on to something (eg: staying on the Twilight theme, Mr Pattinson has stated he hates whoever came up with 'R-Patz' nickname) but 'mommy porn' does seem rather derogatory & almost patronising at times as it just seems to hold this connotation of 'oh those poor mums who need a good book to explore erotic themes just to get away from their child-driven lives but don't know how so we'll shove it in their faces with this self-explanatory title'. Maybe that's just me then :S
It is a shame about the drop in Adult book sales. I haven't noticed a knock on effect in numbers at my local book shop but it does seem more people my age (20-30) are going for YA books, which just don't appeal to me - I tried, I failed :S But, on the brighter side (yes, I did just start a sentence with 'But', in your face English teacher ;P) it could also mean that we have more young people reading - or just people in general - which is always a good thing I feel - YAY new readers!!
On a side note - went into bookshop t'other day and spotted lots of 'if you liked 50 Shades you'll love this' books - so a whole genre suddenly becoming more 'acceptable' to be seen buying/selling/displaying in your bookstore window due to the runaway success of FSOG? That's a good thing no matter what you thought of this series, right?
Akiko wrote: "Hayley wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Younger audiences of the MTV generation like this style of writing. (By the way the MTV Generation is not just teens, it is 20 and 30 year olds, hipsters)"Not all of ..."
Love your take on this. :)
know what you mean, I tried reading it, I did not wanted to a judgment person so I read the book and I did not like but I may not like the book ,but I do not wish any hateful comment upon the novel or any other novel book tv show movies cartoons or what every I do agree about the statement that Mary said about people attacking the intelligence of those who did like the books it absolutely disrespectful to all people including themselves.I think hateful comment get way out of hand in the book and the movie world read and writing novel should be fun free from slamming down on them . I wish I would start a ani-slam of book and movie group. Here some A English Professor of mine had said this in class to me at my college write class that I have Quoted her she said wise A Professor of mine this Quote by A English Professor of mine had said this in class to me at my college write class that I have Quoted her she said wrote on my appending on the matter “ Many writers have been inspired by a another writer or live experience You can’t find one book that as been inspired by another writer or live experience or with out grammar mistakes of grammar spelling in the novel, even the classic has their mistakes and a lot
Of authors do starting off as fanfic writers with that said even if I not fond of but, I do love I can see vary little of say one inspired book basic on another live experience does that
Mean the inspired book basic. Would that mean all book are bad grammar mistakes because of language it forever change expertly English true there are some rule that do not change and true we all make mistakes in writing even the most experiment one of writer
And the staling inspired thing? Even Harry potter was inspired by Myth and Legend
Because we all inspirer someone some way some way or a another and it get good practice writing FF everyone could be a good write with heart knowledge and practice and bravery This to I “To be a good writer is not the nasality of proper formerly of the writing what imported is what you say .the proper formerly of the writing is knowledge and practice to help you expiries feeling, knowledge, stories to others. But proper formerly of the writing is a good skill to have but writing and language but
Is all way changing because the English language is all a but a sponge what once was proper formerly fade in the wind one way or another so be a good reader and writer is forever practice.”
Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was on the pill, I paid for it mysel..."Ah, you missed Rush Lumbaugh's comment regarding the Georgetown student testifying before congress regarding why she needed to use birth control. Lucky you.
The pill is a lot more expensive now...and used for various reasons. Often to regulate hormones, to reduce cysts, to help with migraines..etc.
The Georgetown student was spending upwards to $1300 or more a year - she's a student with loans.
Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was on the pill, I pai..."It's disturbing that as women we are put in the position to try and justify & explain why the pill should be covered on our insurance. Did men have to do this in order to get Viagra covered? Yet insurance co's pay for this with no questions. Maybe if they stopped handing out Viagra like m&m's less women would need the pill & they could save a ton of $. Just a thought ;)
Terri wrote: "Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was ..."Ahh...I need a "like" button for this one!
Interesting discussion on birth control .. We don't have that problem here it is totally free, in face since I live in Wales all my medication is free
Terri wrote: "Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was ..."You're so right there! LOL
Hannah wrote: "Interesting discussion on birth control .. We don't have that problem here it is totally free, in face since I live in Wales all my medication is free"I love Wales, A close friend comes from Wales. I can't remember the name of the town. His family's name is Wythe. Pete and his wife now live in London. They took us on a tour...it was beautiful! I love the U.K.!
Diamond wrote: "I actually like Twilight caused i was 9 when I read it and thought it was amazing but now i noticed it's not the best book out there but my god Fifty shades of gray sounds very very disturbing. An..."Fifty Shades is not about vampires though.It's more realistic. Twilight never interested me because of the vampire thing.
Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was on the pill, I pai..."I saw her on the news the other day. She is now with the Obama campaign and she was introducing him at some fund raiser. The journalist mentioned she had been hired before all that business came out. I'm usually do other things and don't listen to Rush.
Ellie wrote: "Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was ..."I don't listen to Rush either. But the news hit the online world in minutes and the right ran with it. Catholic Churches put out pamphlets. It was nasty.
Terri wrote: "Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Christine, I never heard anyone call a woman a slut because of the birth control issue. Having the gov't pay for women's birth control was the hot topic. When I was ..."LIKE!
Ellie wrote: "I saw her on the news the other day. She is now with the Obama campaign and she was introducing him at some fund raiser. The journalist mentioned she had been hired before all that business came out. I'm usually do other things and don't listen to Rush."
No she had not been hired by anyone. She was a law student at Georgetown University. Darrell Issa decided to have a panel discuss the Obamacare directive that insurance companies had to include birth control on the plans they sold. Problem with the panel is it included ZERO women. When the democrats suggested that the female perspective needed to be heard concerning birth control, they ignored them. SO...the democrats convened their own hearing where women were allowed to speak. Sandra Fluke offered to speak on the student perspective at Georgetown (a university that REQUIRES its students to purchase insurance). She had a friend that lost an ovary due to an untreated ovarian cyst. Because her friend could not tolerate the less expensive birth control and her insurance would not pay for it, she lost that ovary. Ms. Fluke told the panel that her friend's birth control would cost her nearly $3000 over the course of law school (three years). From that remark, Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a slut and must be having tons of sex to spend that much on birth control and if so, she needed to film it and put it on the internet so he could watch. Vile man who has no clue how birth control even works!
It sounds like Rush Limbaugh is jealous that Howard Stern is making more money than he is.
Mary wrote: "Ellie wrote: "I saw her on the news the other day. She is now with the Obama campaign and she was introducing him at some fund raiser. The journalist mentioned she had been hired before all that bu..."I saw her with the President. She was introducing him at a fund raiser. It was on ABC News. I was surprised, but politicians always use people as props...both parties.
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I completely agree! I kind of dug the trilogy