Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
i was just laughing at Mr. Grey when he told her to stop bitting her lip and the one part when he bites his lip it was funny. i also like the part when Ana wears his boxers and uses his tooth brush to brush her teeth that was sooooo funny lolz
Jenna wrote: " Some people are defending it to the end saying its written fine and they didnt find it written poorly to me i just wanna smack those ppl and be like REALLY????I take it that I am one of those people you'd like to smack?
In my own defense, I would like to say that I have repeatedly admitted throughout my comments here the need for a good editor. It is not hard to see that there are repetitive phrases and typos. It is even more evident in the third book. But like Kris, I think I just preferred to overlook them in light of the story. It was no secret how these books were published, and had they gone through the rigorous scrutiny of a tough editor, they surely would have been better received. And the inner goddess dampened.
You later wrote to Kris stating that you think others have been unkind or insulting on this feed expressing their opinions. I hope you do not put me in that category. I certainly never intended to insult anyone criticizing these books.
I for one have come to see many of the flaws apparent in these books since joining this feed. I enjoy debating the issue, and I will continue to defend my opinion, as well as learn from the opinions of others.
I can see that you are passionate in your feelings on these issues, which I admire, and I hope that you can be as open to learning from the opinions of others as they are to yours.
i never once said i dont learn from others actually i think Kris and i were talkin about that earlier and i never once said names of those who were being rude im not gonna throw ppl under the bus it seems like you took it as i was pointing fingers at you since u put yourself in the catagory which i wasnt referring to u and im not condeming those who do like it. We are all different and like different things and i am passionate on how i feel about things it doesnt mean you or others have to join in and feel the same way i do towards the same things
Justine wrote: "i was just laughing at Mr. Grey when he told her to stop bitting her lip and the one part when he bites his lip it was funny. i also like the part when Ana wears his boxers and uses his tooth brush..."Just sharing a bit of naughty info. When my husband and I were dating,a million years ago, I did the same thing. It made us both laugh when we read it.
Ellie wrote: "Does anyone, besides me, love the emails they sent back and forth?? I absolutely loved them...thought they were funny."Wasn't just you. Found the emails hilarious and rather innovative in the first two books - particularly the negotiation of the BDSM contract.
And I love "Shouty Capitals". EL James has clearly spent a lot of time on social media sites. They talk just like that. Including using phrases like holy crap (because you can't curse on these sites without getting booted.).
But, by the third book...the email messages got old and the author seemed to run out of steam. I can't help but wonder if 50 Shades wouldn't have benefited from a great editor? It could have easily been two books.
Ellie wrote: "There's another love story, The Far Pavillion. I cannot remember who wrote it. I think they made it into a movie. It was a 400 page, (I think), saga. I loved the story. Did anyone ever read it? Ano..."The Far Pavillions by MM Kaye. I read it. But can't remember it. It was made into a tv miniseries - which I can't remember either. A lot of these books just blur together.
Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Far_...
Poor Janet Daily lost all credibility when she started plagirizing Nora Roberts.
Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "There's another love story, The Far Pavillion. I cannot remember who wrote it. I think they made it into a movie. It was a 400 page, (I think), saga. I loved the story. Did anyone eve..."When did JD start plazirizing NR?
Mary wrote: "Ellie wrote: "What's wrong with taking sandles off because you're in Georgia? I wore sandles when I lived in Boston and Virginia...don't understand. If there were British expressions in the book, I..."They are common in e-books. I've lost count of the number of books I've read that are filled with them.
Apparently the publishing industry has stopped hiring copy-editors.
Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "There's another love story, The Far Pavillion. I cannot remember who wrote it. I think they made it into a movie. It was a 400 page, (I think), saga. I loved the story. Did anyone eve..."I never heard that aboout JD. I always liked her stories.
I also wonder why her editor didn't do a better job. You place all your trust in them.
Terri wrote: "It was much more than repetitive words or phrases - there were repetitive chapters. I felt like I was reading the same scene over & over again. She's shocked by his presence, she bites her lip, h..."I agree. Too much redundant stuff. There so much more stuff out there that is better than this. I don't see why this was even close to a "5" star. Someone else compared this author's work to a Van Gogh and saying that "only time will tell." What the? If James writes something else that is better than great but this is not good work. Far from it.
Cac wrote: "There so much more stuff out there that is better than this. I don't see why this was even close to a "5" star.."You are absolutely right. And in retrospect I might not give these books such a high rating. However, everyone rates books on their shelf in a "subjective" way. And I for one, rate them in a very personal way. I am not a literary critic, I do not publish my reviews in journals for public scrutiny. I have not earned the credentials to do so.
Therefore I rate books according to how much I enjoyed them. I do factor in the author's writing ability, especially when it is blatantly poor. But in this case, I did not find that to be the case. I thought that E L James did a good job telling her story considering that she did it without an editor. I enjoyed reading the books, and could read them again. If others found the characters to be dry and boring, that is their opinion, I did not.
But I profoundly agree with you that there are many many other books out there better, and that deserve higher ratings. Don't take the 5 star thing to heart, I think on this site, it more likely represents how well someone liked the book, as opposed to how high it should rank on the literary hierarchy.
Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
Thank you. Horrible writing.
Tina wrote: "Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
Thank you. Horrible wri..."
I never got that message from the author, quite the contrary. I saw another message.
Karen wrote: "Cac wrote: "There so much more stuff out there that is better than this. I don't see why this was even close to a "5" star.."You are absolutely right. And in retrospect I might not give these bo..."
Who reported she didn't have her book edited? I hadn't read that anywhere. It surprises me, if it's true.
Ellie wrote: "Who reported she didn't have her book edited? "I believe that she said it herself. She self-published it as fan fiction. It was originally only in epub format.
it says right in the book her husband done the first edit, which implys it was edited again, but never mentions anywhere about having an actual Paid editor
I have all three books and cannot find any info on if it was edited by anyone. All it mentions is she published an earlier serialized version of the story with different characters as "Master of the Universe" under the pseudonym Snowqueen's Icedragon. I'm guessing it was a cost factor when she neglected to have it done and never imagined the results.I hope she seeks professional help with the next one.
Ellie wrote: "I have all three books and cannot find any info on if it was edited by anyone. All it mentions is she published an earlier serialized version of the story with different characters as "Master of th..."I stand corrected. I just noticed in the acknowledgment section she mentions Niall, her husband, for doing the 1st editing. (That would be like having my husband read what I wrote. I would never consider that editing.)I couldn't find where she mentions any other editors. Random House is a big publishing company. If they did the final, it must have been a novice editor.
i think this series has gotten so much recognition because of the sex and because of the bad reviews there are more people who have read it just because of that. when i m reading a book and i dont like it it or cant get into it i just dont finish reading it simple as that but you have people who hate it a and will keep reading it just because of the way its talked about
I have a copy of Master of The Universe, and although I have not read it entirely I had a skim through it to see how different the original manuscript was from the published version. The only real difference that I could tell was the changing of the names from Bella to Ana, Edward to Christian etc.
I think that the publishing house rushed the books into print with little editing. They probably felt that it needed very little given it's success as fanfic, and probably wanted to capitalize on timing while it still had a high level of internet appeal.
Karen wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Who reported she didn't have her book edited? "I believe that she said it herself. She self-published it as fan fiction. It was originally only in epub format."
That makes so much sense. Okay. I feel better.
In all honesty, I'm glad people are enjoying it for the story. If it brings excitement and joy to people's lives then great. I'm actually glad some moms are giving themselves "me" time to read. In the end I'm glad that I read it so now I understand why it was popular and join in on debates. Although, I wish we could focus the debate on the theme or ethos of the characters if they were developed more. Sadly, the only thing I take offense to is when people say it has literary value. I can breathe a sigh of relief now.
Cac wrote: "Karen wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Who reported she didn't have her book edited? "I believe that she said it herself. She self-published it as fan fiction. It was originally only in epub format."
Tha..."
I love delving into each character and their reasons for doing what they do. I loved the story and the way James brought the protagonists to life and made you experience each exciting phase in their relationship. I cried and I laughed. The second time I read the stories, I noticed some of the errors. The first time I was too caught up in the drama to pay attention. But that's me.
Ellie wrote: "Does anyone, besides me, love the emails they sent back and forth?? I absolutely loved them...thought they were funny."I loved the email exchanges too. The only thing that annoyed me was that Ana was a bit of a ditz for not understanding that personal emails shouldn't be sent from your job's email account. Christian really wasn't much better in that regard, but he owns his own company and has an IT guy in his pocket. He can do what he wants. I thought Ana should have known better. I really hope that they put the scene from Fifty Shades Darker where he is cussing her out on the sidewalk about using her blackberry in the movie. I thought that was so vividly depicted and extremely hilarious.
Many people seem to have issues with the inner goddess. I actually liked the inner goddess. She was really funny at times.
I loved the emails! It's when we got to see Christian's playful side...Ana's as well.
Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
Thank you! I feel the exact same way. Its one thing to think the sex is too much, but the underlying theme of abuse really gets me. I couldn't read the other two because I didn't find the writing to my taste (I even found myself skipping over the sex hoping the story and writing would get better). While I don't find this is my taste...I don't care if other people read it---EXCEPT impressionable young girls who find Christian is a desirable boyfriend. That does scare me the same way girls have fawned over Edward wanting to "kill" bella. It just scares me that this kind of behavior is now the "norm". Sure, there's always been bad boys and girls are attracted to them, but putting it out there as if the bad boy will do a 180 and change is not the norm.
B3cs wrote: "Personally, I found The Fifty Shades Trilogy dull and repetitive. I tried to like it, I really did, but I struggled through the first book and couldn't get through the second.I do not shy away fro..."
I thoroughly agree with you! I didn't even bother with the next two. I only read the first one to see what everyone was talking about.
Elizabeth wrote: "Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
Thank you! I feel the e..."
I don't think there is a need to worry about impressionable young girls desiring Christian or Edward. If they cannot separate fantasy from reality, then their search for a 27yr old billionaire or a sparkly vampire will definitely bring them up short.
KarenH wrote: "Elizabeth wrote: "Synesthesia wrote: "I don't care if there's sex in it. I'm more annoyed over bad writing and yet another book encouraging women to run off with jerks.I refuse to read it."
Thank..."
PERFECT RESPONSE!!!
Besides obvious editing issues, I thought the story was good. Psychologically, it was really interesting. It examined a kind of character (Christian) that is not fictionally written about too often. And frankly, after previously reading The Hunger Games series, I found this book to be a nice switch. More entertaining. And regardless of the editing errors, it flowed well and pulled me in.Honestly, if someone hates this book strictly because of the erotic scenes, obviously they're stopping themselves short from seeing the story for what it really was.
I don't believe the target audience for FSOG is young girls and I agree with KarenH...It's fiction, a fact of which readers are well aware. If FSOG sends the wrong message to impressionable young women, I'd suspect the same could be said about Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, and all the rest of the childhood fairytales which imply that a woman does not come alive or find happiness until a prince comes along and saves her. Different situation:yes...equally bad message to take to heart: yes again.
My point is, while I see what you're saying, at anytime of the day, you can turn on your tv set and find one hundred shows providing negative influence. In today's society, this is entertainment, and a lot of it is truly trash. But I do feel that most young girls are wise enough to not want to live the life of a fictional character, and if not, they should stay away from many works of fiction; not just FSOG. I think it may be wiser to teach young girls the difference, rather than have them avoid it altogether.
the story is nice.. not great, not bad.. but the writing sucks!
I didn't like the characters in this book so I think that's why I didn't enjoy it (apart from the lack of a story line other then sex). I really didn't care what happened in the story and I only really read it due to all the attention it was getting.
Kris wrote: "I don't believe the target audience for FSOG is young girls and I agree with KarenH...It's fiction, of fact in which readers are well aware. If FSOG sends the wrong message to impressionable youn..."
I totally agree with you Kris.
Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do...the books are ..."This sounds very defensive to me. Why are you unable to accept that some people, who are broad-minded (some who may themselves partake in the pleasures of BDSM) simply don't like this book? Do you really believe that a dislike of this series means that us that rated it low live in the dark ages? I know people who were still in school when they became parents, I know young adults that were advised by their families to marry because of a pregnancy, I know people that are in civil partnerships/same sex marriages, people who regularly engage in BDSM. Does my dislike of this book make me a hypocrite? Your statement certainly makes it seem so. I am an educated, empowered woman who knows her mind and will stand up for herself, what is wrong with the fact I dislike this series, I am entitled to voice my opinion just as much as you are entitled to voice yours. I am pleased that there are people (yourself included) that enjoyed and are passionate about these books and I respect that but I expect to be respected in my own right, is that so wrong?
Personally I find your attack on us offensive.
Akiko wrote: "Some writers that were not appreciated during their time include John Keats, Edgar Allan Poe, and Henry David Thoreau...and include such artists such as Van Gogh. So many artist we praise today wer..."This is true enough, but as far as writing is concerned I'm not so sure that this book/series is destined to become a classic.
It may be cited as a opener for an alternative fiction to the mainstream market, or an excellent model for effective marketing.
But as you say, time will tell. :)
B3cs wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Some writers that were not appreciated during their time include John Keats, Edgar Allan Poe, and Henry David Thoreau...and include such artists such as Van Gogh. So many artist we pr..."As much as I liked the story, I agree with you B3cs. Not "classic" material, but enjoyable nonetheless!
Rose wrote: "I didn't like the characters in this book so I think that's why I didn't enjoy it (apart from the lack of a story line other then sex). I really didn't care what happened in the story and I only re..."I loved Ana and Christian...not so much the other characters, but I felt for them. I cared what happened to their relationship and hoped he'd give up his wierd lifestyle because he loved her.
Christine wrote: "Ellie wrote: "There's another love story, The Far Pavillion. I cannot remember who wrote it. I think they made it into a movie. It was a 400 page, (I think), saga. I loved the story. Did anyone eve..."It was about an Indian woman (royalty?) who falls in love with a guy her family was against. I think she was promised to someone else. Back in those days when the husband died, the wife was cremated with him. And that's where she was headed. They don't practice that anymore. It was a wonderful story.
Janet Daily was sued by Nora Roberts for plagirism in 1997.
Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Da...
Ellie wrote: "Ellie wrote: "I have all three books and cannot find any info on if it was edited by anyone. All it mentions is she published an earlier serialized version of the story with different characters as..."EL James husband is a professional television script writer in Britain, and novelist. Who has written many scripts for British TV. It was her husband's literary agent that James used.
Elizabeth wrote: "I don't care if other people read it---EXCEPT impressionable young girls who find Christian is a desirable boyfriend. That does scare me the same way girls have fawned over Edward wanting to "kill" bella. It just scares me that this kind of behavior is now the "norm". Sure, there's always been bad boys and girls are attracted to them, but putting it out there as if the bad boy will do a 180 and change is not the norm. "Sorry, but I do not buy this. Bad boys have been reforming themselves or being reformed in literature for ages. The bad boy is a standard literary trope. Bad boys are more interesting to read about as their characters are typically more complex. Where is the story if you have a perfect hero who never does anything wrong? We want our characters in literature to grow. If they are already grown up then there is no story. In Interview With a Vampire, Lestat appears to be a totally amoral and evil character. As the books progress he begins to question his vampirism and the nature of good vs. evil. In Memnoch, he descends into hell and ascends into heaven and is changed as a result. Mr. Rochester in Jane Eyre begins as a cynical, bullying and manipulative man. By the end, he is transformed through Jane's love. I think people misunderstand when girls gush over Christian. I would imagine they have fallen for the reformed Christian at the end rather than the immature control freak of the beginning. I love Fitzwilliam Darcy as a character, but I sure hated him for the first half of the book.
I'm testing the water with this idea. James should write the book with his POV and have it properly edited. A good editor would eliminate the redundantcy and make it tight. After reading it a second time I noticed the problems people were speaking of, however, I still enjoyed the story. I saw shades of Rebecca in it the second go-around.This is in answer to Elizabeth. Writing about a "vanilla boy" would not capture the audience. You need a bad boy rehabilitating himself because of the love of decent girl. There has to be drama.
"I don't care if other people read it---EXCEPT impressionable young girls who find Christian is a desirable boyfriend. That does scare me the same way girls have fawned over Edward wanting to "kill" bella. It just scares me that this kind of behavior is now the "norm". I have to agree with Mary as well on this point.
Impressionable men and women have been fawning over bad boy and bad girl characters in literature since the ancient Greeks and Shakespeare's time. They do it with tv shows all the time.
The boy's always love the femme fatale, the nasty girl, who they think they can save. And yes, some, actually do try to do that in real life. Know quite a few men who fell into this trap. (It's not limited to the ladies.)
But in literature, often a character starts from a bad place and journey's towards redemption.
There are a few "moralist" writers, such as Sir Ralph Richardson's Clarissa - where the heroine paid dearly for her infatuation with an irredeemable bad boy.
Richardson was a preacher and felt the need to moralize to his readership back in the 1800s (I think it was the 1800s), because he feared as others do over 100 years later that impressionable young women were fawning over the bad boy and needed to be taught a lesson. He wrote a 1500 page fictional book explaining why this was a bad idea.
The people who fall hard for the bad girl or boy in reality, will anyhow. What they read has very little to do with it.
Kimberley wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do......"I never said no one can have an opinion about the book, I just wanted to point out it is more then the sex...and everyone has a right not to read the book...or to hate it. Times have changed and communicating with an audience changes, even what worked a year ago in art changes when you consider the market of social networking, texting, and other mobile devices...communication has changed...this is certainly going to influence the way people write. My own parents hate Facebook but still Facebook thrives...I remember my dad saying he hated rock music...and yet it thrived, he felt it was simple music with only three chords could never survive, and yeah that was his opinion...people have opinions and thank god for that...because that is what makes all artists better when they get that feedback...the book is definitely written for a younger audience...and for those educated may not find it very sophisticated...but this is about reaching an audience...and perhaps you are not that audience...and the author is an artist allowed to use any form to express her art, and perhaps she felt this was the way, book sales seems to agree with her, there is never going to be book that is for everyone so people will always hate every book...people will either love or hate art...but I am glad that this piece of art has started people talking...and to another comment I made, it is not defensive to point out other artists who were not appreciated during their time, this is a FACT... and yeah I have a law degree...I work in the entertainment industry and one of the first women to work in games...so yes breaking ground sometimes can create both fans and those who hate the material. I certainly have seen that in the world of video games, any of you ever played Bioshock?
Akiko wrote: "Kimberley wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about somethi..."I agree with you 100%. I just watched trailers for Mr. Grey on Youtube and Matt and Ian are so hot for the role. I prefer Matt. (sigh)
Ellie wrote: "Justine wrote: "i was just laughing at Mr. Grey when he told her to stop bitting her lip and the one part when he bites his lip it was funny. i also like the part when Ana wears his boxers and uses..."thats funny
Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book of history, s..."You are plain wrong. It is one of the most poorly written books I have even read (well, I could not finish it so not sure this qualifies as "read"). Anyone who considers this good, or even adequate, writing is delusional! People who finds this crap titillating must have very sad and boring lives indeed. (shaking my head)
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Ellie- I liked the emails, too! Very entertaining :)