Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
Ellie wrote: "There's another love story, The Far Pavillion. I cannot remember who wrote it. I think they made it into a movie. It was a 400 page, (I think), saga. I loved the story. Did anyone ever read it? Ano..."M.M. Kaye
Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Haha, these 50 shades threads are so active at the moment Karen, all others seem really slow in comparison! By the way, I am rereading Wuthering Heights at the moment (as promised) and..."Would love to discuss Wuthering Heights with you Mary and anyone else who would like to join in, perhaps we should start a new thread about Wuthering Heights. What should it be called ? :)
Kris wrote: "I see what you're saying, especially with modern writing, but I'm a huge fan of correct grammar. Intentionally faulty grammar that's used as slang or to emphasize a point is one thing, but grammar ..."Kris, I would like to thank you for providing a topic for a lovely and long debate among friends and patrons in my local pub last night, we were discussing books in general when I remembered your post. Only a handful of people had read fsog although the author of our group hadn't (not his genre) however the conclusion that everyone agreed on was the importance of good grammar in books, where slang english is used specifically for a characters personality that is fin but descriptions on scenes and actions should use good language and grammar, while we read for entertainment, books, any books, subconsciously improve our literacy (and I'm sure our spacecadet, aka author, will be the first to agree and knows of some study proving that fact).
Again this comes to taking and reviewing a book as a whole, including more than just the story.
Kimberley wrote: "Kris wrote: "I see what you're saying, especially with modern writing, but I'm a huge fan of correct grammar. Intentionally faulty grammar that's used as slang or to emphasize a point is one thing,..."Kimberly, that's so sweet of you to mention! I absolutely agree with considering the book as a whole, not just the storyline. I'm so happy you had a juicy debate! Book talk is one of my favorite topics of discussion :)
Ellie here ya go:http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/s/b...
the Channel series I believe is more contemporary not historical.
Karen wrote: "Ladyacct wrote: "I wouldn't let my daughter at 15 read FSoG either, however that's really what I think the issue is....it's a YA story that was poorly upgraded and not quite makes it to erotic adul..."My point is that it is WRITTEN that way in my opinion, that is the way it reads with regards to character maturity, state of mind, and writing style.
Ladyacct wrote: "Karen wrote: "Ladyacct wrote: "I wouldn't let my daughter at 15 read FSoG either, however that's really what I think the issue is....it's a YA story that was poorly upgraded and not quite makes it ..."I'm sorry, I misunderstood. :)
Ladyacct wrote: "Ellie here ya go:http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/s/b...
the Channel series I believe is more contemporary not historical."
Thank you!
B3cs wrote: "Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Haha, these 50 shades threads are so active at the moment Karen, all others seem really slow in comparison! By the way, I am rereading Wuthering Heights at the moment (as ..."I'm in! I would like to re-read it first though. :) I'm sure we could come up with a great name for it.
Karen wrote: "Ladyacct wrote: "Karen wrote: "Ladyacct wrote: "I wouldn't let my daughter at 15 read FSoG either, however that's really what I think the issue is....it's a YA story that was poorly upgraded and no..." Not necessary, but thank you. This is why there are discussions for people to agree or disagree. Reminds me of debate in school ;-)
There is also another discussion on Goodreads that compares Twilight to 50. Caught most of the similiar aspects but, not all. However, I didn't read the last two books of either series.
Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book of history, s..."I loved the series but I will also admit that it was rather poorly written. People are not lying or being unfair when they make that criticism. There is repetitive text. There were spelling and grammar errors. Some of the errors were glaring. For example, there is a scene where Christian tells Ana to take her "sandles" off. I think they were in his hotel room in Georgia. There were also several British speech patterns and phrasings that sounded odd coming from supposedly American characters. "What are you playing at?" in Fifty Shades Freed instantly comes to mind. Some people hate those types of things in a book. It ruins the story for them and they can't enjoy it.
What's wrong with taking sandles off because you're in Georgia? I wore sandles when I lived in Boston and Virginia...don't understand. If there were British expressions in the book, I missed it. Perhaps it's because I have close friends from London who live here and I'm used to it.
Just finised the series and loved it. I didn't find the writing poor but then again I just love book all books. Hope the writer comes out with more books can't wait til then.
Ashley wrote: "Just finised the series and loved it. I didn't find the writing poor but then again I just love book all books. Hope the writer comes out with more books can't wait til then."It's how I felt too, Ashley. :)
Mocha Spresso wrote: "Karen wrote: "I don't quite understand why people feel the need to trash another's work, just because it doesn't suit their tastes. I've read books all my life, and I enjoy a great classic, a book..."thank you!!! even tho u liked the books u see the points where others didnt like it. u understood why some didnt like it, and Some people are defending it to the end saying its written fine and they didnt find it written poorly to me i just wanna smack those ppl and be like REALLY???? but u im glad u pointed out that you liked it and im glad u pointed out the bad parts too. atleast you can see both parties point of view
I have read many of the comments and find them interesting. Here is my perspective on it.I enjoyed it.. and yes I have read many many many books.. In almost every genre, including the classics.
I agree EL James got the attention however she did and wow did it ever take off mainstream. I also don't think some other excellent erotica would have the same appeal.. like Shayla Black or Maya Banks.. Both have an excellent BDSM series going. Both are way more sensual and accurate towards BDSM
I think this book was way more about the relationship and honestly, I could so see an impressionable 22 year old girl signing that contract.. or at least not running when she saw it. Women at that age tend to really want to bend to please the men in their lives. They haven't all gotten their self esteem in the adult world.
I have seen many broadcasts on this book and all of them seem to focus on the sex part. That actually bothered me because IMHO there wasn't all that much to it.. and the BDSM part? That really was more implied.. sure there was a teeny weeny bit but..
And finally, I liked books 1 and 2 but felt book 3 was just written because book 2 would have been too long. Then filler was added to make it a book.
Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do...the books are about how two people with heavy emotional burdens and to deal that effected their interaction with people. A boy who had cigarettes burns all over this body at 4 years old from his mother's pimp found with her dead body is not going to have a normal relationship with people. This books gives us a glimpse into a fictional character whose only way to relate to the opposite sex is through BDSM, because it gives him emotional control over his emotions...the girl is naive with her own emotional baggage, and how through her sexual relationship with this man, she learns to empower herself with the word NO. (Why none of you saw the psychological aspect of this book actually says a lot about the depth of how you are reading this...) She finds herself exploring sexual pleasure in a way she never thought possible...she learned not to fear her body or the different possibilities of pleasure. How many women end up with horrible relationships with men that are based on sex...and end up doing things for guys we would never do before we met them. How many of you feel empowered to tell a man, NO, I won't do this anymore or have you ever waited by the phone wondering why he doesn't call? Granted this story is an extreme but there are some brutal truths here that most people are afraid to talk about. Do any of you watch Jerry Springer where people talk about their stupid sex lives on television? Sisters sharing the same man...and other ridiculous personal sexual behavior. This is 2012 people, we are having sex and need to stop being ashamed of having it. Yeah not everyone is doing it missionary style. BDSM is a personal choice between two consenting adults. This is a free country where people can be creative in their own bedroom and in what they write. Stop criticizing the writing of the book as art is supposed to reflect the society we live in. Writing has evolved as art has evolved...it doesn't matter if they repeat phrases as long as the message is getting across, book sales don't lie, and the British are well educated with free Ivy league level colleges...the point of writing is to reach an audience to tell a story, it is not always a technical exercise. Graffiti is art form too. Like it or not...so it comes down to personal choice. I have read hundreds of books and classics, and actually get paid to write...so I understand it from both points of view. Stop acting like sex is something to be ashamed of, and if teen pregnancy numbers are right, teens already know about sex even before adults talk to them about sex or not, anybody here know of anyone who got pregnant as a teen? How do you think that happened? Ever hear of Flyer Parties? (If you don't know this is where teens get invited to a party where mattresses are the theme.) Those are much more disturbing then this book...I am glad this book series exists as it has started people talking...
Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do...the books are ..."Akiko - I don't think that's why people don't like the book ... sex is not the most disturbing thing out there these days as you've said. But her writing isn't good and it is hard to relate because of the female character. People are allowed to have opinions.
British idioms...Again didn't bug me. But I use them. A lot of people online do, even though they are American.
One of the side-effects of spending time online or interacting with people that do...is you pick up their speech patterns. I'm American for example and I use shag ...because I like the word. I also like
"Good on You" - an Australian idiom.
A pattern I've been picking up in the criticism above - is that what is in the novel (50 Shades) doesn't quite fit with the reader's experience or knowledge, so they dismiss it out of hand as not possible. (This happened to me once in a creative writing course - I wrote about my grandfather who had brain cancer - three brain tumors and survived, but with limited mental capacity. One of my readers was furious. She said it was completely unbelievable and offensive - because her relative died of brain cancer. How dare I refute her experience! Readers...sigh, so annoying.)
There are people who use "inner goddess" and "holy crap" a lot for example - I see it on various social media sites.
Many young Americans between ages of 20-50 use British idioms and other countries idioms..because it is cool. A new slang.
There are also people who abuse the BDSM lifestyle. But the book is "fictional" - so why does it have to be accurate? And even if it were accurate, how would it ever match the reader's experience, unless the author interviewed them?
There are people who don't know much, if anything, about sex until much much later, yet are knowledgable a vast array of other things. (I've met people who have never read erotica and didn't know it existed.)
Isn't reading about discovering an experience outside of your own? Getting into another person's head? Listening to their dream? There's another thread on Good Reads that delved into this topic.
I'm not saying I don't have issues with 50 Shades, I do. It's unevenly written. Many of the supporting characters are never really developed. And Ana's issues (her negative self-image and aneorexia) are never really addressed. But I have similar issues with other novels that have been written, including Pam Dean's Tam Lin and most of James Patterson and Charlain Harris novels (the ones I've read) and do not get me started on Julie James. And to be fair, EL James (50 Shades) freely admits she's a beginning writer and undisciplined. Her editors were her readers on a fan forum.
Grammatically? It actually has less typos and grammatical errors than a Lisa Kleypas e-book and Sylvia Day e-book that I read recently. For an e-book, 50 Shades was pretty good in regards to typos and errors.
While I would not call it great or even good literature by any stretch of the imagination, I'd say it is not bad either. I'd put it above the Twilight novels, Danielle Steele, Story of O, Judith Krantz, all the 99 cent books (not hard to do), and below Sherry Thomas, Jennifer Crusie, Loretta Chase, Jackie Collins, Michael Crichton, Stephen King, and Rosemary Rodgers. And about on par with or equal to James Patterson, Sandra Brown, Nick Sparks, John Jakes, David Baldacci and Dan Brown.
Yes, I've read a lot of trashy novels or pulp in my lifetime. Can't remember most of them. I like to call them airplane reads or cotton candy for the brain. ;-)
Melissa wrote: "Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do......"I didn't say people couldn't have opinions but artists are free to express themselves in any style of writing that suits their audience. A writers main purpose is to write in a manner that reaches her audience...and she has brilliantly done that even though you may not like her style. Schools teach us rules to help guide our storytelling, these rules are not written in stone...some people will like the way she wrote it and like I said book sales don't lie...and others will hate it...you may not like how she wrote it, and you have every right not to read it...Twilight wasn't well written either but it didn't matter because some of the repeated phrases and the way teenagers think are reflected in this style of writing...and that is why people write, to reach their audience not show them their technical skills.
I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its flaws; I simply overlooked them bc I did enjoy and appreciate the story. I did find the amount of times the term "inner goddess" was used to be annoying- not bc I don't accept or understand the usage of that term, but I found it highly repetitive and distracting.
I agree with what many here have said- everyone has their own opinions on it and deserve to speak them freely. I can't tell you how many times someone else's opinion has opened my eyes to something I hadn't initially noticed...so I absolutely love to hear varying viewpoints on a topic.
Some writers that were not appreciated during their time include John Keats, Edgar Allan Poe, and Henry David Thoreau...and include such artists such as Van Gogh. So many artist we praise today were not so popular in their time and decided not to paint or write like the artists of their time...and from this we have such variety and growth in art...imagine being Picasso in his day...So time will tell us about Fifty Shades...
Kris wrote: "I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its flaws; I simply overlooked th..."Kris, I rather liked the "inner goddess" reference. I thought of instances when I wanted to do something, but a nagging voice kept pestering me not to. Of course, this was in my youth. LOL! I guess you can say it was my "inner goddess" speaking.
i like how thats everyones fall back phrase to those who dont like the books, it has nothing to do with the sex and i see alot of ppl throwing that out there to those ppl who dont like the book. im sure some didnt like it cuz the sex but not EVERYONE didnt like it because the sex. I for one didnt like it because the writting style was bad and repetitive. Sex wise ive read way better sex scenes in other books. But People need to stop blaming it on the sex.
Ellie wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its flaws; I simply ..."the inner goddess part it made me wanna blow my head off everytime i read it on every other page it was just aggrivating. It made her seem like a basket case with 3 different personalities. if she would of used the phrase less it would have been okay
Kris wrote: "I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its flaws; I simply overlooked th..."and i agree with you on reading others opinons because it can help u clear things up in ur own mind. im in a book club on facebook and we just finished a book i took the ending one way and someone else took it another we both explained our reasons and discussed it (not fighting and insulting one another like so many do on this site) and we both came to an understand and we both seen each others side and both sides made sense in the book
Akiko wrote: "Wow, the book is not just about sex...sex is a normal part of every day life, just like breathing and eating...why are so many people filled with shame about something all of us do...the books are ..."Bravo!! You said exactly what I've been trying to say.You certainly expressed it better than I. :)
Shauni wrote: "I have read many of the comments and find them interesting. Here is my perspective on it.I enjoyed it.. and yes I have read many many many books.. In almost every genre, including the classics.
..."
Great take, Shauni.
Jenna wrote: "i like how thats everyones fall back phrase to those who dont like the books, it has nothing to do with the sex and i see alot of ppl throwing that out there to those ppl who dont like the book. im..."I agree it is not the sex as I read Morgan Hawke, Jaid Black, Sophie Oak, Tymber Dalton, to name a few. They write MUCH BETTER, HOTTER sex scenes....I really think this book was originally written for a YA audience and then 'beefed' up to make it more adult IT IS NOT adult erotic fiction. No matter what anyone tries to argue with, that will never change in my opinion. BUT it's being sold as that category and I think that is my biggest issue with it, when it is clearly written in a YA (Twilight wanna be) style.
Jenna- u are cracking me up! Lol. (The inner goddess part making u want to blow ur head off) I love how you don't sugar coat anything, it's refreshing! ;)And I'm happy to hear you're able to maturely discuss books in your book club. That's why we have them in the first place and it's nice to know that you can honestly say how a book made you feel without worrying about getting verbally attacked. I'm in a book group here on GR, and everyone has the same accepting attitude. It's a lot of fun.
And I must add that everyone in this thread has been mostly respectful through out and it has been nice chatting. :)
lol yea im not one to sugar coat anything. i havnt been keeping track of this thread for a couple weeks but when i was there were a few that were actually gettin kinda crappy with others. and its okay to defend what u like. But dont throw insults at ppl. and i agree its good when ur in a group that u can be urself in and not have to worry like u said about gettin attacked. i myself dont care if i do because im an arguer. I'll argue til im blue in the face or i feel like u made a valid point. but glad i made ya giggle :)
Alike I will come back to your comments when I have finished book 3 ( am a chapter away ) as they clearly contain spoilers and I do not want to know until I have finished the book
-sigh- i didnt even read book 3 because book one was ehh it did make me want to see what happened next even tho i didnt like it then i literally had to FORCE myself to finish book 2 so i had someone else in my book club tell me what happened in book 3 so i didnt have to read it lol and then i went back to reading JR Wards BDB series :) which i recommend to all
B3cs wrote: "Mary wrote: "B3cs wrote: "Haha, these 50 shades threads are so active at the moment Karen, all others seem really slow in comparison! By the way, I am rereading Wuthering Heights at the moment (as ..."Wuthering Heights: Bad Boys in Fiction?
Ellie wrote: "What's wrong with taking sandles off because you're in Georgia? I wore sandles when I lived in Boston and Virginia...don't understand. If there were British expressions in the book, I missed it. Pe..."sandals, not sandles. Typos happen, especially if there is not an editor. This is why the book could have used a large red pen.
Jenna wrote: "Ellie wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its fl..."It bugged me too until I thought about it a bit. Many people I know have "signature" slang sayings that define them. If I hear a certain phrase, it will automatically call that person to mind. That was obviously one of her signature sayings.
Ellie wrote: "Kris wrote: "I was someone who had issues with grammar errors in books, but I was not specifically referring to FSOG. I happened to love the series, but I was also not blind to its flaws; I simply ..."I'm sorry, Ellie, I didn't see your comment! I liked it the first few times, as well. I thought it was cute... Just like the whole lip biting thing. But then I felt it became abused and found myself rolling my eyes everytime I saw the words lol! But I see what ur saying- you felt her liberation. I was fortunately still able to enjoy the books ;)
Katrina wrote: "Amy wrote: "What?? The writing is great? Constantly repetitive phrases and words, no variety in vocabulary, poor use of grammar and construction is considered well-written? I'm sad to think that th..."ok i dont understand how it was badly written could somebody explain that to me??? and by the way i loved the books just throwing that out there
Justine wrote: "Katrina wrote: "Amy wrote: "What?? The writing is great? Constantly repetitive phrases and words, no variety in vocabulary, poor use of grammar and construction is considered well-written? I'm sad ..."badly written as in you learn in creative writting classes or english classes in school at a young age NEVER use a repeative phrase or repeat a word over and over again it makes the reader lose interest. that was one of the big ones i didnt like. im not sayin her Grammer was bad because i myself dont really pay attention to if ur using their there or they're in the right context but some ppl have complained about that in the series (not those words just an example) lots of typeos (like i said those dont bother me way way to much just a lil) and i felt her as a writer wrote very juevinile like very child. The Plot and story line was very SMALL thats another reason poorly written if u took away the sex scenes u wouldnt really have much of a story ...Does that explain it a little better? And Im glad you enjoyed the book. Alot of ppl did enjoy it and lots didnt
maybe someone else can explain it a little more or add to what i said
Jenna wrote: "Justine wrote: "Katrina wrote: "Amy wrote: "What?? The writing is great? Constantly repetitive phrases and words, no variety in vocabulary, poor use of grammar and construction is considered well-w..."yeah that helps but i thought her writing was fine in my opinion
Jenna wrote: "Justine wrote: "Katrina wrote: "Amy wrote: "What?? The writing is great? Constantly repetitive phrases and words, no variety in vocabulary, poor use of grammar and construction is considered well-w..."I'm smiling as I read your remarks. It is a major faux pas to repeat. I learned that in creative writing classes. Also, never use the word "just" or end the sentence with a preposition, write tight and to the point. Never use a passive sentence. (I still have trouble with that one,LOL). I never knew about these rules until I took classes. I belong to several writing groups, many of whom are professionals in this field. I enjoy the constructive criticism. By the way, my husband is reading book 2 and loving it!
thats good im glad some ppl like the books im my honest opinion it wasnt that bad i liked the plot it was funny hot sex scenes and it had sad parts too and all in all it had love i think what the author was trying to say was that even people with a bad childhood who was abused sexually and physically can find love that's what i think
It was much more than repetitive words or phrases - there were repetitive chapters. I felt like I was reading the same scene over & over again. She's shocked by his presence, she bites her lip, he gets turned on, he tells her to stop, he tells her to eat, she is not hungry, they have vanilla sex, she asks herself what should I do/what am I doing/what am I going to do.....It drove me mad. I was laughing to myself though about his desire to punish her for rolling her eyes because I did nothing but while reading this book. I would have been in big trouble with Mr. Grey!
Terri wrote: "It was much more than repetitive words or phrases - there were repetitive chapters. I felt like I was reading the same scene over & over again. She's shocked by his presence, she bites her lip, h..."Terry, you're making me laugh with your take. How does a story bring out some of the most facinating critiques I've ever read? It has certainly stirred the bees' nest! Love it!!
Does anyone, besides me, love the emails they sent back and forth?? I absolutely loved them...thought they were funny.
Justine wrote: "Katrina wrote: "Amy wrote: "What?? The writing is great? Constantly repetitive phrases and words, no variety in vocabulary, poor use of grammar and construction is considered well-written? I'm sad ..."Ok, I enjoyed these books, so I'm definitely not bashing them here...The writing was not as bad as in many other books I've read. I guess I felt that FSOG (along with typos or grammar errors, which weren't too bad), seemed to lack the professional quality of writing generated by more experienced writers. The vocabulary was repetitive and simple. Which doesn't make for a bad story, but I guess some readers expect a less amateur feel in their stories.
I, quite frankly, didn't mind bc I found the story fun. No, the writing was
not poetic or extraordinary, and I wasn't floored by the sentence
structure. Nothing stood out metaphorically speaking, but I can't deny that it was a sexy, exciting read for me.
i felt like it could have been great if she had a little more training in writting because what little plot and story line there was. it wasnt bad it could have just been amazing if written properly
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Attack the writing, not the person who likes it. It's fair to attack the writing, you spent time getting to know it. It's not fair to attack the person, you have no idea who they are.