Fifty Shades of Grey
discussion
dont like it ..dont read it
Karen, you're so right. The friends who didn't like it never read that type of book. Their husbands play golf with mine. When they found out I was reading it, they asked me what I thought. Two of them said their wives were too prudish to go beyond the first few pages. I told them there was nothing sexual in the first few pages. It's amazing these gals ever had children, or maybe they're closet readers and won't admit it.
To me it seems like a double standard. Go to the Crime Section of your bookstore and you will find shelves of books about brutality, violence, cruelty and murder. Nobody spends too much time arguing the merits of that, but a book of erotic fiction garners all this criticism.I think if people want to criticize FSOG that's fine. But be honest, give us the real reason.
Fine Ian you want to know why I don't like it? 1. It's crap writing. 2. The author is a bitch & I am talking from personal experience. 3. What the author has done is ethically wrong, even if she hasn't broken the law. 4. It is a very inaccurate & dangerous portrayal of a Bdsm relationship. 5. It's a boring story.
Annette, I'm seeing an undercurrent in your remark.Perhaps you've suffered under some form of brutality. Christian's idea, before Ana, was twisted. The abuse hesuffered as a child was the reason for this behavior. He was going through therapy for years because he knew it was wrong. It took Ana, an innocent, to show him the light. His doctor told her all the years he treated him, she did it with her compassion and love. Annette, your assessment is so wrong and it's not illegal. There's a lesson in this book violence is evil, use safe sex and make sure your partner gets tested. If you have problems, get help. Some men just want to abuse, it's not about love, it's about control. That's what rape is. He never forced Ana...he gave her the contract.
Ellie I'm quite disturbed that you would infer from what I wrote that I've suffered some form of brutality. The only brutality I've suffered is having to read theses books. I don't appreciate being told that my opinion about a book is wrong. It is mine & is neither right nor wrong. I have a bIg problem with the message that years of therapy couldn't fix Edward but Bella's love could. That is dangerous. Edward/Christian is an abusive & controlling man & it is wrong to think that love is all he needed to fix him. Abused & battered women everywhere tell themselves that every day, that if I just love him more everything will be okay. I often wonder if Edward hadn't been a millionaire in this book, if he'd just been an average guy, who stalked Bella the way he did & treated her the way he did would everyone be so forgiving.
As for the "contract", was it ever signed?
The legal stuff I was referring to was the blatant profiteering the author has done on the back of a Twilight fan fiction.
Annette wrote: "Ellie I'm quite disturbed that you would infer from what I wrote that I've suffered some form of brutality. The only brutality I've suffered is having to read theses books. I don't appreciate bein..."Annette, Glad to see you cleared up your "victim of brutality" issue - I was just about to come to your defense! That was way out of line. It seems to me that the people who LOVE this book simply cannot accept the fact that not everyone does. There must be something wrong with us. We're either abused, sexually repressed, comparing it to Hemingway, not fans of Romance, hyper critical, etc. None of which is true in my case. I love Romance novels and have nothing against some steam but found this book just awful. If this story was written by a more talented author who did some research, especially with regard to the emotional/sexual abuse, and was edited it could possibly have been a good book - but as it stands it is not. I have plenty of friends who love FSOG but I don't feel the need to insult them or assume they have underlying emotional issues. They love it, I don't. Simple as that.
Annette, the Story in its printed form bears little resemblence to Twilight (other than he is older than she is) and since the author of FSOG wrote the fan fiction I believe you are refering to (Masters of the Universe) she is therefore entitled to publish her work.Also coming from an abused background I speak from experiance when I say not every battered wife (or in my case, daughter) tells themselves that it will be ok if they love them more it would solve the situation, there are hundreds, even thousands of reasons behind domestic abuse and many times the abusers know they need help but are too ashamed to ask for it thus the cycle continues, I don't expect everyone to understand but if they have come from an abused background they will see where I am coming from.
As for the 'innacurate and dangerous portrayal of a bdsm relationship' I ask you to explain, a close friend of mine is in a long term bdsm relationship and notes that a few of the props are wrong and one occasion that is potentially harmful.
I am not criticising you and please don't take it in that context but I would just like to understand your opinion better.
Ian wrote: "To me it seems like a double standard. Go to the Crime Section of your bookstore and you will find shelves of books about brutality, violence, cruelty and murder. Nobody spends too much time arguin..."Ian, very good point!
FSOG is a work of fiction- it doesn't claim to be an instructional manual on BDSM. Why is its accuracy in question? I've read so many books where someone gets an illness, and I'm sure the symptoms and the way the disease progresses are not entirely realistic, but that doesn't matter bc a doctor didn't write the book. It's only FICTION. Thats why there are stories about vampires, witches, demons. It's allowed to be senseless, over-the-top, ridiculous even. If someone doesn't like a work of fiction, that's more than fine, but see it for what it is. If you want to read something that gives an accurate account of all that is mentioned, you may be shopping in the wrong section of the book store if it led you to FSOG. I do not mean any harm at all in my comment. But I just think people should be allowed to love it or hate it without getting attacked or ridiculed after speaking their opinion.
Annette wrote: "As for the "contract", was it ever signed? The legal stuff I was referring to was the blatant profiteering the author has done on the back of a Twilight fan fiction."
1. No the contract was never signed.
2. As a former copyright attorney, no the author didn't profiteer from Twilight and was within her legal rights.
I found Twilight unreadable. It was a teen angst romance about vampires. Where the heroine allows the hero to take her over compeletly and she dies to be with him.
50 Shades is a story about a 26/27 and 21/22 year old.
Both out of college. And living on their own. And working. They engage in kinky/BDSM sex. And the heroine finds a way to help the hero overcome his child abuse issues in a more productive way.
Fail to see any similarities. People I've known who read 50 Shades and found it entertaining, hated the Twilight books. I certainly despised the Twilight books.
So no, you can't legitimately claim that the author in any way shape or form profiteered off of Twilight books. She was merely inspired by them. Authors are inspired by things all the time. Fanfic is not evil.
Christine, I totally agree with you and I don't have your background...just had a few years as a legal secretary before working 30 years in the airline industry.
Aliki wrote: "why people read fifty shades of grey ,when they know that is a sex book ,and after they make bad comments for it?i think that everybody want to read for sex but they dont want people to know it.eve..."I pay $15 plus for book I'm going to read it, and Mary you are right, there are many different people, for many different books same with movies and music. You don't insult people because they liked it when you don't - however, I am curious who read this JUST BECAUSE it's on the bestsellers list and SAID they like it because it's expected of them???
Annette wrote: Fine Ian you want to know why I don't like it? Annette, your response appears to more of a personal attack towards the author, than a actual critique of the writing or the books. You seem to be more upset at the way the book was published, which is your right, but I thought we were talking about the quality of the books, not in the way they were created.
I also don't understand why you brought up the inaccurate BDSM relationship.... Christian and Ana didn't have a BDSM relationship. She may have agreed to role play with him, but they never entered into any type of D/s relationship. He was completely upfront with her about what he wanted from the relationship, and she was completely consensual with each and every act. Safe words were discussed and utilized. But no where in their relationship did they actually become D/s partners.
Ana was not abused. She allowed him to spank her. She gave consent, and admittedly LIKED it. At the point when she decided that enough was too much, he stopped. I think the message also showed that in the end, she had much more CONTROL of him than he did of her.
This is when I wonder how much of these books were really read, before they were criticized. If people read the story from start to finish, these issues are mostly all resolved between the two characters. I don't think the content is "dangerous" on any level of the imagination.
And Twilight is not under scrutiny under this topic, is it? I don't even know why it is being discussed here.
Ian wrote: "To me it seems like a double standard. Go to the Crime Section of your bookstore and you will find shelves of books about brutality, violence, cruelty and murder. Nobody spends too much time arguin..."Ian, great point!!!
There are many other books out there that get into real violence and cruelty, rape and murder, horrific stuff, and these books are not thrown to the fire with even an inkling of the same fervor.
Llwells wrote: "Who read this just because it was on the BEST SELLERS list ..."Interesting thought, I admit I have more resepct for people that have read this, completely and formed their own opinions rather than followed the sheep.
As for me I read it on recommendation after it got many friends who weren't readers reading again.
I liked the books. And glad I read them. I started reading them because my friend recommended it. And I'm glad I did, because these books opened my world to a new genre of books that I hadn't read before, which I found that I enjoy...(more than I thought I ever would)....Hee Hee ;-) Isn't that why we read books anyway? I enjoy being encouraged to read outside my normal comfort zone.
The story is about a 20 something year old female who has never masturbated and calls her vagina "down there" ... I can't relate to that being a 25 year old female. Also, the female character is very weak and it bothered me how she never stood up to anyone. Christian's character is what kept me reading - I was intrigued by him. But I don't think I'll read the second or third book. Not because of the sex - I'm all for kinky stuff. But because it just wasn't for me, and the writing was sub-par for $11.57 or however much I paid.
Melissa, not every college girl is sexually active. She is not 25, she is 21 and never was turned on by any boy she dated.I understand her fully because I was the same naive young girl at her age. It happens. You have to read #2 and #3. It gets into the reasons he's the way he is and how their relationship evolves into something beautifull. She turns out to be stronger than you think and that's what changes him for the better.
Way to go, Katie! Always read with an open mind.
Kimberly, at first I wasn't interested. I usually like mysteries. I used to love romance novels, but changed to mysteries when I started writing. I decided to find out what it was all about and became hooked after #1 and couldn't put them down. My heart broke for Christian and the abuse he suffered. He grew to become a humanitarian trying to help the needy around the world. He didn't want anyone to know how generous he was. There was something good in him and Ana brought it out because of her innocense and deep love.
Ellie wrote: "Melissa, not every college girl is sexually active. She is not 25, she is 21 and never was turned on by any boy she dated.I understand her fully because I was the same naive young girl at her age. ..."Ellie - I never said that every college girl is sexually active. Personally, when I read I like to be able to relate to a character and live in their world and feel their feelings. I didn't get that with this book unfortunately and it was hard for me to relate. I don't usually read romance novels so that's probably why I had a hard time with it.
But I do appreciate others opinions and for the record have encouraged friends to read it and judge it for themselves. You can't judge something until after you've read it!
Melissa wrote: "I don't usually read romance novels so that's probably why I had a hard time with it.But I do appreciate others opinions and for the record have encouraged friends to read it and judge it for themselves. You can't judge something until after you've read it! "
I really think that's what it comes down to. I can respect any opinion including opinions I don't agree with, but I've heard so much criticism of these books by people who haven't read them that it kind of bothers me.
I also think books in this genre follow a different set of rules to books in other genres. I wouldn't compare Rabbie Burns to e.e. cummings because they are so different, but they are still both great poets (imo). And, I wouldn't compare erotica to chick lit.
terri brilliantly said i have read the books and i wasn't impressed , not because i am a prude ( have a large collection of erotic fiction left over from studies at uni including sade ) not because i am not into romantic fiction it features heavily on my bookcase , not because i am jumping on the bandwagon ( i am old enough to form my own opinions )
I didn't like it as i found the characters awful and the writing repetative and cliched.
plus i think i you are going to write a book in which a BSDM relationship features heavily in at least the first book then sorry i think it should be heavily researched , michael crichton writes books of a scientific nature and heavily researches his books and it shows
ana needs to stop reading so much tess of the durbevilles it is not good for her !!!!
Ian wrote: "Melissa wrote: "I don't usually read romance novels so that's probably why I had a hard time with it.But I do appreciate others opinions and for the record have encouraged friends to read it and ..."
Ian, Have you read this? I see you didn't rate it. I don't know why the fans of this book are compelled to fabricate all sorts of different reasons why the people who don't like the book feel the way they do. The latest of which is that I didn't read it. Really? I read it - I think it was terrible. Period. Why is that so hard to believe? If you go onto Amazon the reviews are very polarized. People either love it or hate it - neither side is necessarily wrong. That's why it's called an opinion.
Hannah wrote: "terri brilliantly said i have read the books and i wasn't impressed , not because i am a prude ( have a large collection of erotic fiction left over from studies at uni including sade ) not becau..."
Are you from the U.K., Hannah?
lol yes what gave it away ??
Terri wrote: "Ian, Have you read this?"No, does that disqualify me from commenting on this topic? I'm very careful not to make any comments on the merits of the book, and I've mentioned on more than one occasion that I haven't read it (at this stage).
My comments are in fact pretty much confined to the fact that a lot of people criticize it who haven't read it.
Ian wrote: "Terri wrote: "Ian, Have you read this?"No, does that disqualify me from commenting on this topic? I'm very careful not to make any comments on the merits of the book, and I've mentioned on more t..."
I was just curious and don't think anywhere in my statement I implied that you should not be commenting. I also do not understand how anyone could review or criticize these books if they have not read them. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Maybe Ian is coming from a male's POV. Is he married or in a relationship? How old is Ian. Maybe he's not in a relationship and wants to be...just saying.
Hannah, when you used the term brilliantly it gave it away. I have very dear friends that live in Greenwich, U.K. Clare often uses the same term when describing something she loves.
Hannah wrote: "terri brilliantly said i have read the books and i wasn't impressed , not because i am a prude ( have a large collection of erotic fiction left over from studies at uni including sade ) not becau..."
Again, this was not a BDSM relationship.
Terri wrote: "I was just curious and don't think anywhere in my statement I implied that you should not be commenting. I also do not understand how anyone could review or criticize these books if they have not read them. I'm not sure what you're referring to. "Fair enough. I misunderstood your intention and I apologize.
Ian i think the majority of the women posting here who disliked the book have no problems with the sexual nature of the book , they just didnt like them for other reasons ie characterisation or the writing i think people feel you may have made generalisations about why we disliked the book and trust me it was not because of the sex ( although it could have been better written !!)
Also if you go to the crime section then yes you expect to find blood and gore in the books , this book although well known by now to be erotica does not actually state that on the book cover and instead describes it as a "passionate love affair " ... at no point on the cover does it say " contains the male 'hero' whipping the heroine in a dungeon with a belt'
Ellie wrote: "Maybe Ian is coming from a male's POV. Is he married or in a relationship? How old is Ian. Maybe he's not in a relationship and wants to be...just saying."lol...you know my age, my full (real) name...you even know what I look like. I'm happy to give you the rest, but you go first.
lol Ellie .... i am originally from up north so i also have a habit of calling everyone pet !!!Ian you should be careful about picking women up on a thread about fifty shades of grey !!!!!!
Karen what would you describe it as then ,the first book is all about them trying to work out if they can be in a BDSM relationship ... if it isnt BDSM then for the whole of the first book he is just a crazy stalker control freak .... and the girl should run very very fast
granted the rest of the books are not but the first book clearly has a BDSM bent to it
It is clear in the beginning that he is looking for a D/s relationship, but they never establish this relationship. Again, he attempts to educate her, but she doesn't ever accept and sign his contract. He ends up ditching the contract and proceeding with a "vanilla " relationship with some tole playing. How would you classify it as BDSM?
The synopsis for FSOG states that Ana is "shocked yet thrilled by Grey's singular erotic tastes"... So it's not like going into the book blind. I certainly knew it was going to be kinky, and I was a little hesitant to read it, at first. I did end up enjoying the books bc I found them fun. Not substantial, not enthralling or inspirational- just fun. I feel that's all these books are supposed to be, yet the faulty writing is repeatedly compared to classic books. Why? I understand the points Ian was trying to make, and I don't feel his comments were unreasonable. I think it's great that everyone has contrasting opinions; it makes life interesting. I just feel that FSOG is getting a bad rap for not living up a caliber in which it never claimed to meet in the first place. It's just fiction- some will fun it fun- others, repulsive...but that doesn't change what it is.
Kris wrote: "The synopsis for FSOG states that Ana is "shocked yet thrilled by Grey's singular erotic tastes"... So it's not like going into the book blind. I certainly knew it was going to be kinky, and I was ..."I too knew exactly what to expect when I read the book and I read it for fun at the beach. Who/where/why would anyone compare this to classic literature? If anyone out there purchases this book and is expecting classic lit they must be living under a rock. Ian's points are don't criticize the book for the type of book it is and if you have not read it. Both very reasonable. However, if this is not the case and you read it, knew what you were reading & still didn't like it - that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
Terri wrote: "Kris wrote: "The synopsis for FSOG states that Ana is "shocked yet thrilled by Grey's singular erotic tastes"... So it's not like going into the book blind. I certainly knew it was going to be kink..."I also agree.
Why hasn't anyone spoken of his abusive childhood that brought him to this unspeakable lifestyle? I think some are missing the point. What drives people to indulge in this? How does a person, who is intelligent and successful end up in a sexual relationship with submissive women? And how is it possible that a young 21 year innocent come into this person's life and turn him upside down? The equation is simple...good vs. evil. Good always wins out. I find it interesting to look for reasons why people choose what they do. I believe it always goes back to their early childhood and family lifestyle. Ana brings him from the darkness to the light...they marry and have a son then are blessed with a second, a daughter. I loved the ending. Ana's love and compassion saved him as did his adoptive parents when he was 4 years old.
Hannah wrote: "lol Ellie .... i am originally from up north so i also have a habit of calling everyone pet !!!Ian you should be careful about picking women up on a thread about fifty shades of grey !!!!!!"
Hannah, so am I. I'm originally from Boston!
Hannah wrote: ... at no point on the cover does it say " contains the male 'hero' whipping the heroine in a dungeon with a belt' .Dungeon? Really?
I don't think you have to read the whole trilogy to present an opinion. I read all of the first book and about half of the second book. I have given this trilogy a fair go and a good deal of my time. At aproximately 500 pages per book I think I have sampled enough of it to give a fairly informed opinion. But it wouldn't bother me if someone put the book down after a chapter and made comment. They attempted to read it, they didn't like it, they put it down, they feel compelled to discuss their reasons for doing so.I value my reading time too much to waste my time reading a trilogy to the end that I am not enjoying. I have a good idea from reviews and discussions what happens at the end, but here's the thing - I don't care what happens at the end! I did not enjoy the books enough to want to finish them, and I believe that is a valid criticism.
B3cs wrote: "I don't think you have to read the whole trilogy to present an opinion. I read all of the first book and about half of the second book. I have given this trilogy a fair go and a good deal of my tim..."It is indeed a valid criticism. Glad to see you back in the argument!
Haha, these 50 shades threads are so active at the moment Karen, all others seem really slow in comparison! By the way, I am rereading Wuthering Heights at the moment (as promised) and thoroughly enjoying it. It was so long ago since I last read it, I had forgotten so much. I am almost finished, in fact, I should finish it today. :)
Karen wrote: "B3cs wrote: "I don't think you have to read the whole trilogy to present an opinion. I read all of the first book and about half of the second book. I have given this trilogy a fair go and a good d..."I agree! Totally valid argument. Just like someone can know from the first chapters alone that they love it! We can't help what we like/don't like ;)
Kris wrote: "Karen wrote: "B3cs wrote: "I don't think you have to read the whole trilogy to present an opinion. I read all of the first book and about half of the second book. I have given this trilogy a fair g..."Exactly, also sometimes whether you like or dislike a book can be respresentative of where you are at, or your state of mind at the time. I know that I have put down a book because I didn't like it and then picked it up years later and thoroughly enjoyed it. :)
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I agree with you. These books were not originally marketed at all. They became popular mostly by word of mouth. I read them before they were even available in paperback. In fact, I believe I had seen that they were voted #1 Romance books on Goodreads, which is what caught my attention.
These books are not the type to be accepted in every household. They are very specific to their genre. I think that most of the people who are picking them up now are mainly just curious about all of the hype, and are not interested in romance books at all.