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What's the difference between this... and fake reviews?
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It's a valid question, and I cringe at the fact that I'm on that thread. I'm not sure that 'liking' a book actually affects the ranking system at all though, to be honest. I'm a little mystified as to what the feature does.There are a lot of those threads around GR, and in secret Yahoo groups. I think they're harmless (if only in the sense that tagging and liking a book seems to have no impact on its sales whatsoever), but yeah, I regret being involved in them.
If it helps - hardly anyone actually 'likes' or tags any of the books posted, whatever they might say, they just make encouraging noises and hope everyone else will like and tag their own work.
I don't like it but neither do I like it when I check reviews (as I always do) and find that the writer of the glowing review hasn't reviewed anything else. That might be out of an author's hands of course. Your mates might think they are doing you a favour. If there's a review from someone who has reviewed more than 10 I'm more impresssed. (And yes, we all had to write the first 10 to get that far.)I often forget to click 'like' - not sure what it actually does. I also feel that if you really have read the book, the minimum 20 words as to why is far more useful and little less time consuming than a 'like'.
I suspect I know most of the people who reviewed Something Nice - 10 Stories, and I do hope that they enjoyed writing the review and go on to review some other stuff. It is a little embarrassing at present.
I agree - when I e-pubbed my first book, I got sucked into some of these little ploys to get my first book noticed. After a while, I realised it was a form of cheating and stopped - not that I ever did the 'tagging' thing. I don't understand much about them or 'clouds' whatever they are. Now, I think all that stuff sucks up writing time so I don't bother.My problem is that I love to read and review. Sometimes, other writers read and review my work. I cannot help that - if they read, like and review, why should I not respect their views as much as those of plain simple readers? Sometimes, reviews by other writers are the most use to me.
There are lots of people who criticise writers for reviewing. My view is that if I've bought and read a book, I should be entitled to offer my view on that book. I review books by famous authors as well as Indies although I find these days I do read more Indie books - they're often a refreshing change from the usual Sunday Times Top Ten fodder.
Another problem is that with one exception (a Goodreads rating of 3*s without a review), all my reviews are 4* and 5*s, which seems to put off some readers. I keep hoping for a couple of 2* or 3* reviews to balance things out a bit, but it just doesn't happen.
I was a reviewer before I was a [published] writer, and I'm not going to stop offering my opinion on books, though I am new to Amazon reviewing. I don't tend to write many negative reviews, but then I don't tend to read books unless I'm pretty sure I'm going to enjoy them.
I know what you mean, Elisabeth. My two novels have received largely 4* and 5* but I barely no any of the people that reviewed them, still I am made to feel a sense of guilt when I read threads that say high reviewes for self-published books can't be trusted. Saying that, I've had a 1* on Amazon and a few lower ratings on Goodreads and sales don't seem to have been adversely damaged. I guess it's a case of just keeping on writing and letting what will be, be!And I agree with what is said on this thread about the "Please 'like' my book and I'll like yours." I don't think it is at the same level as a fake review but it is certainly on the same continuum.
I had a review for my short story on Smashwords recently that was so effusive it definitely looked like a 'sock puppet'or good mate review, but I have no idea who wrote it. I have to admit, Stu, that I only read your first book because you seemed like a really 'good bloke', so I thought I'd try your book. If I'd looked at your reviews, I might have been more wary. I'm like that with really popular books. I nearly missed out on reading 'The Book Thief' for the same reason.
Well I am glad you did Katie! I never thought for one moment that good reviews would put people off! It's a strange old thing! Congratulations on your Smashwords review!
Four and five star reviews. To me that means many people enjoyed it. Most of my reviews are 3, 4 and 5 (I've only occasionally given a 2*). If I think a book will not please me, why in the name of sanity would I bother reading it? Life's too short. With 'Look Inside' and samples, you should be able to choose your books carefully.I review my own choice of books. I think it's different if you are an Amazon Vine Voice reviewer when someone else chooses a book for you.
I much prefer things to be above board. I have even seen authors asking for reviews 'and I'll review yours'. Now this is defintely disapproved of on the threads over there. The 'liking' thing is in the same category I think.
I've also had authors offering me a book free, to review. I always buy it. Even if I proof read it (and therefore have already read it when it's published) I buy it before I post a review. You've got to maintain some integrity.
It does come to something when you find yourself waiting and hoping for a bad review...
I wonder how long it will be before people start creating fake bad reviews to make the fake good reviews seem more genuine?!
You shouldn't! If it's good then people need to know. I get a bit cross with the sort of mentality that thinks if a book is almost universally approved then everyone is cheating. Maybe it just is bloody good!
I don't understand how you can 'like' a book :S
Well, as I say, I suspect a few of my reviews might be from friends - but I don't have the kind of friends who'd spare my blushes if they thought I'd written a rubbish book!
I recently saw the whole "like my book" (or profile, or whatever) compared to giving someone a high five. It doesn't seem to do much more than make the author feel better about seeing something other than the big fat zero. I tried the tagging thing too and while it was fun to obsess for an hour or so on seeing the tag numbers go up, it made no difference to sales or rankings. In the end I see it as little more than a game that tricks you into thinking you're doing something useful.
True enough Sadie. I guess it's easy to become obsessed with the response to your book at the expense of writing another. There is no doubting that a good review makes me feel wonderful, but a bad review doesn't make me feel awful. They are just a reader's opinion given to aid another potential reader in their decision as to whether to read the book or not. At the end of the day it's about choices and opinions and luck really. For me, the successs comes with the writing of the book - anything else is a complete bonus!
Happily reading through The Bird That Nobody Sees at the moment! Hope to have it with you by the end of next week!
Me, too!To me, a page of good reviews doesn't necessarily mean that someone's been cheating. It's more that I worry about the Emperor's-New-Clothes Syndrome, with people praising a book because everyone else has and they don't want to appear silly. This is especially true with some YA books I could mention. Kids think they have to read them - peer pressure - and then say they enjoyed them, whether they did or not.
I hasten to add that I bought Stu's book before I realised he was on this forum, so I hadn't realised that so many of his great reviews were from very intelligent and erudite people! :)
I do agree John. Having wrote my first two novels not expecting anyone to read them, the impetus I have gained to finish the third one has been much enhanced by the good reviews. It has confirmed my belief that the innate judgement I have of my own writing is not mis-placed, which is very handy. As such, regardless of any future poor reviews, I shall continue to write until it doesn't feel right. And I hope that time will be many years in the future!
J.S. wrote: "I'm probably risking being flamed for this, but here goes anyway!What's the difference between this...
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...
... and posting fake reviews?
They are both in..."
JS, this is a very interesting topic. I'm pleased you started it in spite of feeling that you may be flamed.
I hope this proves that you (no groupite!) needs to ever feel reticent about discussing anything that could be considered 'controversial' in our group.
We can talk about anything and everything with no nastiness. :)
Must say you've really made me think...
I'm assuming by 'liking' you mean the Facebook like button? I use it often. It's the easiest way to share a book with my friends on Facebook. I do click it before I read the book, if it's one that I've been looking forward to that I know my friends have been waiting for as well.
I've not done much tagging. I have for a couple of books that have been nastily tagged to give balance.
It's important to remember that your tags show when your profile on amazon is looked at, so think before you tag...
Patti (Stir Crazy) wrote: "It's important to remember that your tags show when your profile on amazon is looked at, so think before you tag... "This is something that I bet most people don't realize.
I use the tags to find out more about the book when I'm not sure what it's about from the blurb... sometimes it gives a clue about the category. Somehow I don't seem to find the category... can it be that people are allowed not to list a book in a category?
The category is way down the bottom, below all the reviews and stuff. If a book has a lot of reviews, or a long product description, it can be tough to find.
That's probably why then Andrew... I don't tend to scroll down to the reviews.... Too scared of spoilers !
I avoid reviews for the same reason Lorraine.I much prefer reccies from friends.
For some obscure reason, one of my books on amazon.com ended up with a load of fantasy/fae/fairy tags and the tags I had added had disappeared. Given that the book in question was about an 11-year old growing up in Newcastle-on-Tyne in the 1960s and had no magic whatsoever in it, I wondered what had happened. I did mention this on the amazon KDP forum and some people who had read the book were kind enough to vote down the fantasy tags and include those that were appropriate to the story, for which I am very grateful. Mistakes can - and do, happen, and I was grateful that it was possible to put this right, after e-mails to amazon had no effect.
I agree that there are times when it *is* appropriate to work the system back in your favour but this wasn't that - it was systematic cheating.
Right; I've only scanned down these answers as am VERY tired, and apologise for not reading them all properly - but I just started a new thread about Amazon likes and tagging, and I was directed to this. I don't want likes because I want to go "ooh look, 42 people like my book!" I've read quite a lot about how to increase your books' visibility on Amazon. 'Likes' and people agreeing with the tags do this, to some extent. The problem with these reciprocal tagging groups is that, as I have found out before, people will tag your book with their own name; if they see that you book is considerably better selling than theirs, they will tag it with their own name in the hope that people looking for your books will come across theirs. Also, many of these people do not tag your book with anything relevant to it's subject matter - how can they, if they haven't read it? Ditto what Elizabeth said! That's why I have given up on most of these things, but this seemed like quite a decent sort of group so I thought I would give it another go!
This may well be the 'indie author' (YUK at that phrase!) world version of an urban myth, but I have heard that if you can get your author page on Amazon.com up to 40 'likes' (nb, on .com you can 'like' the author, not just the books), it boosts you into some super-duper stratosphere as far as visibility is concerned.
I too, look at tags to find out more about the book - as Lorraine commented above.
I have come across authors who try this 'I'll give you a good review if you give me one' rubbish. Awful. I'd never enter into anything like that, and also, it's pointless. If your book is so bad that you have to arrange what amounts to fake reviews, then it's never going to do any good, is it? I do review books - if I've read them. I'm a reader as well as a writer, and I know how much glowing reviews mean to me, so I like to give them out if I've really enjoyed a book, too. Similarly, if I can, I like to thank people for good reviews, which is one of the beauties of Goodreads - you can see who the person is and, in most cases, send them a message.
To sum up - 'likes' and tags are only a way of getting your book found in searches and thus becoming more visible - so it gives you the chance of more sales. Harmless, and it might actually do some good. Fake reviews? Unethical, give the whole self-publishing thing a bad name, and completely pathetic.
Phew!
Very well said Terry! And well done for putting it so well! In terms of the whole 'like' urban myth thing I've seen books with hundreds of 'likes', a couple of reviews and a ranking in the hundreds of thousands. I can't imagine the 'like' thing makes any difference at all. Keep on writing and keep on being a nice person - that's the trick - and just let whatever happens happen. That's what I try to do - most of the time!
And very well said to you, too, Stuart - perhap those people with only a couple of reviews had to resort to reciprocal 'liking' groups - seems like it! :)
The Amazon Like thing is a mystery to me but I was under the vague impression that Amazon looks at your Likes and that helps them suggest other books, so Liking something for the sake of it will mean you get similar books recommended. I thought. I may be completely wrong, and my brain is AWOL just now.
What's the difference between this...
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...
... and posting fake reviews?
They are both intended to manipulate the ranking system, so what's the difference between reviewing a book you haven't read and 'liking' a book you haven't read?
'Cos in my (not) humble opinion, the answer is 'not a lot'.