WW2 War Games - Board & Computer Simulations

[Jeff]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Oooops, another one!"

This is a very disturbing trend.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

A bit like a virus :)

[Michael, Assisting Moderator Axis Forces]

What have I started :)

[Jeff]

Michael wrote: "What have I started :)"
Our doom.

[Stephen]

For those needing graphics card upgrade I can not say enough about heart of iron 3 for the WW2 enthusiasts. Fight the war your way from the view point of any nation on the planet (well almost). Unfortunately I have a decent pc and will be checking out the addictive game mentioned above.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Thanks for the info on the 'heart of iron 3' Stephen, I'm sure a few folks here will appreciate it :)

[Michael, Assisting Moderator Axis Forces]

I love Heart of Iron 3

[R.M.F.]

Recently, I got into Battlefront's Flames of War WW2 range. Anybody else had experience of Flames of War/collecting an army etc?

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Hi R.M.F.

I know of the game but have not played or started an army yet. For those interested here is their web site:

http://www.flamesofwar.com/

[Michael, Assisting Moderator Axis Forces]

I have been looking at it to scared to buy it though. I could see a lot of money going towards it.

[R.M.F.]

Michael wrote: "I have been looking at it to scared to buy it though. I could see a lot of money going towards it."

There are lots of companies that do plastic tanks/troops at competitive prices, so money doesn't have to be an issue. For flames of war, you can do a late war (1944-45) King Tiger army, or panther army, for dirt cheap. American or British paratroop companies are pretty cheap to buy as well, and are quite effective when they're dug in.

And if WW2 is not your thing, there is a new range for a certain war fought in the 1960s that starts with a V and ends with an N. Not sure if the mods would allow me to mention something not related to WW2 :)

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

We are not overly strict here R.M.F. :)

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Hi R.M.F let me add it in for you...Vietnam ;)

It's no worries as Rick says we're relaxed here, and after all many armed forces around the world used WWII era weaponry, vehicles and other kit for years after too - for example Churchill tanks first deployed in WWII used in Korea.

[R.M.F.]

I'll add to this by saying that I've recently had a go of another WW2 mini-wargame called bolt action. Bolt action is 28mm compared to Flames of war's 15mm scale. Bolt action is more of a platoon/skirmish game, but don't let that put you off - its pretty damn good.

A lot of WW2 games struggle with jungle fighting but the British Vs Japan game I saw went pretty well.
Worth a look to anybody that's interested.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Thanks for that information on that 28mm gaming system, for those interested here is a link to the Bolt Action home page:

http://www.warlordgames.com/home/bolt...

[R.M.F.]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Thanks for that information on that 28mm gaming system, for those interested here is a link to the Bolt Action home page:

http://www.warlordgames.com/home/bolt..."

On a final note, I'll add that a lot of these game companies (unlike one well known British company) don't care that much for what miniatures you use in the games. Given the wide range of WW2 stuff by companies such as Plastic Soldier Company, Pig Iron etc etc you can have affordable, quality gaming.

It can be pricey if you're doing hordes of Russian infantry, but as I said earlier, late war German Panther companies are as cheap as chips to buy, and you don't need a lot of them in your games.

[Jim]

I have a number of friends who will occasionally set up a board game and play it for months at time(usually schedules are difficult to coordinate)..

Recently we played the issue game in a old S and T that dealt with the 1950 battle of the Chongchon with the 8th Army and the PLA..The 8th Army player correctly initiated the careful phased withdraw that Macarthur should have done and did not race forward into the PLA forces..I choose the maximal PLA deployment but could never really get to grips with 8th Army even though I kept on outflanking his right...we had to take it down when the new off the block grandchildren toddlers came around since it would not have lasted one second with their megaton energy...

What newer WW II board games old school that people have played in recent months that folks suggest?

Jim

[Jeff]

Did anyone ever play Avalon Hill's "Flattop?" Too play it right, each player, plus a judge had a complete game set. We set up in our rooms, while the judge was in the basement. We passed our moves down the laundry chute. Didn't know if you spotted anything unless the judge called out, "You've spotted something." Very intense to say the least.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Never played that game before Jeff - sounded like you had some fun though :)

[Jeff]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Never played that game before Jeff - sounded like you had some fun though :)"

It was great Rick. We could only hoot and holler when things went south and not be face-to-face with our opponent. Squad Leader was a whole different animal. We should have been locked in separate cages.

[carl]

Avalon Hill could get some convolutions in their games.
Jutland was another sea warfare game, all these neato
ship counters, but you spent most of the time
searching for each other on a hex paper ocean.

[Jeff]

carl wrote: "Avalon Hill could get some convolutions in their games.
Jutland was another sea warfare game, all these neato
ship counters, but you spent most of the time
searching for each other on a hex paper o..."
I'll agree Carl. I tried Jutland a few times. Wasn't really impressed and then they had Tobruk. Man, that game was too complex. Spent all your time figure odds and angles instead of "sweeping" across the desert.

[carl]

Yes I had Tobruk too. My trouble was didn't have many
opponents, it would take too long to train them on
how to play. most were Risk players, AH games
would dull most out before you could get to the
game.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

I'm starting to miss those good old days!

[Jim]

I helped do the research on Jutland many moons ago. It was a amazing eye opener to begin to try to understand the technology of the pre-WW I battleships back in the mid sixties...the game went through many permutations because when we playtested it we did first with a hex sheet and then had them add to each other. I think Jim ultimately had it like a naval miniatures game...

The length of the rules were always a problem...I remember when SPI developed the MONSTER games that were amazing cartographic renditions of the terrain..I gave my copy of the Pacific War years ago to a noted Pacific War Historian. I know one guy who had been in the Special Forces in the sixties and wound up in later life as a insurance executive in NYC..he set up in his basement in Ct. all the old GDW Eastern front maps and played the War in the East...it was like a floating crap game but he just added all the ..what was it called...DRACH NACH OSTEN ...or something like that.

I maybe play a couple a year these days but in frequently and only with a couple of people. I view them as useful as learning tools and it alot of fun to have a couple of people who are into the history of the period to play the games and critique it..sort of like what you all do here..sometimes I find the simulations can help you clarify some issues because you can see a very crude depiction of the force space ratios...other times you need to modify the rules.

I have used the games for educational purposes at the university level. In the eighties we used the old GDW modern battles series , purchased a coupe of hundred dollars worth of games plus extra counters so you could create down to platoon/company level NATO and WARSAW pact divisions ...we then had a few PHD candidates make several large scale maps of sectors of the German frontier and then went to town..the main purpose of that was to show the rapid attrition of conventional units and how tricky and fast the nuclear threshold might be reached.

I believe their is a game that simulates a IDF air assault on Iran...I have not had time to modify it for the purpose of including US and allied air assets ...but the vast target set for an air campaign against Iran is daunting to say the least...the key takeaway from these exercises is the need for robust and creative diplomacy to NOT have these options ever exercised...that also goes for a board game that simulates a Chinese versus ASEAN/US naval conflict in the Western Pacific.

Vut I agree, the rules for manual games are very very tough to make easy for the average person to get into, especially in these days of X Box and Computers...a good game on the Western Desert Campaign is always good to find...in reading about that campaign it led me into the politics and history of the Middle East and Mahgreb region 40 years ago

[Jim]

By Jim I mean Jim Dunnigan

[Jeff]

Jim wrote: "I helped do the research on Jutland many moons ago. It was a amazing eye opener to begin to try to understand the technology of the pre-WW I battleships back in the mid sixties...the game went thr..."
Very interesting Jim.

[carl]

Wild you worked on Jutland Jim. We rarely, if ever, played the whole official game. Usually line up the Navies on the basement floor and start shooting. AH had some great box cover art for that era, Jutland, 1914, Stalingrad, and then again some were rather bland.

[Nick]

Jim wrote: "I have a number of friends who will occasionally set up a board game and play it for months at time(usually schedules are difficult to coordinate)..

Recently we played the issue game in a old S an..."

Do you have any specific topics in mind or asking in general?

The reason I ask is that the number of boardgames on WW II is staggering. They vary by topic, size, and complexity so a laundry list might not answer your question.

[Jim]

In general...hell, I got plenty of them...it just is that to set them up and play them at my age take months...more as social occasion to have a good time with friends and bullshit about history and all sorts of things.

I have about 5-6 friends that will play them often..more than me...I prefer the company of the opposite sex

[Jim]

I am just interested if anybody played something recently that blew their minds

[Jim]

carl wrote: "Wild you worked on Jutland Jim. We rarely, if ever, played the whole official game. Usually line up the Navies on the basement floor and start shooting. AH had some great box cover art for that ..."

It was a tripperro..but I learned a hell of a lot. It was also the first time I read seriously about operational research and systems analysis...that was useful to put in the toolkit

[Jim]

carl wrote: "Wild you worked on Jutland Jim. We rarely, if ever, played the whole official game. Usually line up the Navies on the basement floor and start shooting. AH had some great box cover art for that ..."

I actually always liked the naval games with uncertainty and search issues better than the games with perfect intelligence..the games on Pacific Naval battles and other naval eras always intrigued me..I got a couple of years ago a big game on the "Golden Age of Piracy" and I want to see how that period is depicted. We playtested Jutland with all sorts of variants of shooting aways so I cracked up a little when you wrote that...we also lined them up and shot away to see how various systems worked..but that was when I was a teenager...

[Nick]

Jim wrote: "In general...hell, I got plenty of them...it just is that to set them up and play them at my age take months...more as social occasion to have a good time with friends and bullshit about history an..."

The price you pay if you go for one of the "monster" games. There are a number of one and two-map games that can be finished in one or two sessions and that move along quite briskly. Again, it depends on the type of game you want to play as well as the topic.

[Jim]

Nick wrote: "Jim wrote: "In general...hell, I got plenty of them...it just is that to set them up and play them at my age take months...more as social occasion to have a good time with friends and bullshit abou..."


Very true..what have you played lately that you like

[Colin]

Jim wrote: "I helped do the research on Jutland many moons ago. It was a amazing eye opener to begin to try to understand the technology of the pre-WW I battleships back in the mid sixties...the game went thr..."

DRACH NACH OSTEN is actually "Drang nacj osten", or "Pust to the east" which was the battle cry of the Teutonic Knights of Prussia, pushing into the Baltic states and Poland under Frederick I Barbarossa in the 12th Century, adopted by Hitler for the invasion of the USSR on June 22, 1941.

[Justin]

For those who love the Hearts of Iron series, I was heavily involved in the beta testing of the Hearts of Iron (Arsenal of Democracy) mod CORE. I wasn't involved in the actual coding, but played the game over and over to find any errors or AI problems. It was a fantastic experience and I recommend the CORE mod for anyone who wants historical accuracy and flavour. The attention to detail the CORE mod group go to is staggering! I'm still listed in the CORE developers (El Alamein) but due to real life limitations I don't have the spare time to play it like I used to. Hearts of Iron II (Arsenal of Democracy) and the Hearts of Iron III games are the best global WW2 strategy games I have played and I highly recommend them for any computer strategist.

[Justin]

I also have a boxed set of World In Flames strategy game, which is now gathering dust after I discovered the Hearts of Iron series on PC. At the time I loved it but unfortunately had no-one locally who was willing to play against haha, which is why I loved the Hearts of Iron computer series.
Back in the Commodore 64 days there was an Australian developer called SSG who produced a brilliant battalion level game called Battlefront. They also made a game called 'War in Russia' IIRC. Easy to learn and play and very addictive!
On the PC I've also played many SSI and Matrix wargames over the years such as War in the Pacific, Uncommon Valour, Conquest of the Aegean, Battlefront (PC edition), and the Close Combat series.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Good games there Justin, I was a big fan of SSI and then the Battlefront series.

[Liam]

I recently bought a computer game called 'Real War: Air Land Sea- Rogue States'; it was sort of randomly placed on a shelf at King Books in Detroit, covered with dust. When I wiped the dust off, I noticed that it said "Based on the official Joint Chiefs of Staff training game developed for the U.S. military" on the front, so I figured it was worth risking the $4.00 to find out whether it was any good. Unfortunately, I wasted my money. The game sucks; it seems primarily to concern logistics and construction, as well as issuing simple orders from a menu to various types of units almost as an afterthought. The actual combat is almost completely automated, and playing consists for the most part of building, supplying and issuing the aforementioned orders quickly enough to avoid reprimands from higher headquarters, which are annoyingly voiced by the ubiquitous R. Lee Ermey... I'm glad I paid so little, because this is one of the most boring games I've ever played. I've never particularly aspired to be the junior Major on some General's staff who gets stuck with all the shitty jobs and spends long hours behind a desk pushing gigantic stacks of paper around while being screamed at by ignorant, incompetent & unappreciative senior officers- that's more or less what this game is like.

[Dj]

http://www.ghqmodels.com/store/mg13.html

This is a link for (what in my less than humble opinion) is probably the best Micro Armor rules out there.

It is called World War II Micro Armour: The Game. It was written by a late friend of mine and is great fun to play.
We once did the SS ride to destruction at Kursk at a Game Convention in Seattle and it went very well. The only one yelling during the whole game was the Moderator, who kept telling the Russians to get off their duffs and attack. Wish he hadn't finally gotten them to do it, it was much more fun picking off T-34s at range them having them swarm over my tanks and overrunning my infantry.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Sounds like a fun game, I am sure a few of us will be checking it out :)

[Colin]

Go to and download World of Tanks and Air Attack, great interactive free online games

[John]

I enjoy playing Axis and Allies board games and it various iterations with my grandkids. What surprises me is the interaction and strategy the kids develop based on geography. Slightly off topic, but FYI, a WW1 version was just released a few months ago.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Axis & Allies board games were a classic eh! Didn't know about the WW1 version, thanks for the details John.

[Wes]

Has anyone ever played the monster game by SPI War in Europe? Played twice in 70's and then again in the 80's. it took up a whole ping pong table with another table to hold Spain. It was great fun but it took a whole day just to sort and place the 4500 counters. The house rule was no dangly sweaters so when you reach across the map you didn't annihilate whole division. Great fun and memories!

[Stephen]

If you Google Triple A, you will find a link to an online Axis & Allies download. It has many versions of the game which you can play against the AI or friends. All free so well worth fans checking out .

[Dj]

Wes wrote: "Has anyone ever played the monster game by SPI War in Europe? Played twice in 70's and then again in the 80's. it took up a whole ping pong table with another table to hold Spain. It was great fun ..."


Never had the chance to play that, did have a friend who had a unpunched copy of Rommel's Desert War. Got to take a look at the rules once. My goodness was that a complex set of rules.

[Nick]

Wes wrote: "Has anyone ever played the monster game by SPI War in Europe? Played twice in 70's and then again in the 80's. it took up a whole ping pong table with another table to hold Spain. It was great fun ..."

I did, many moons ago. The game is extremely obsolete and has been so for some time. It's primarily a curiosity, these days.

I note that a number of folks seem to be "retired" wargamers. Sadly, it's a too-common phenomenon. The hobby has made a lot of "progress" in the past decade or three and you can get a lot of play-value (and information) from more up-to-date games.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Stephen wrote: "If you Google Triple A, you will find a link to an online Axis & Allies download. It has many versions of the game which you can play against the AI or friends. All free so well worth fans checking..."

Thanks for those details Stephen, I may check it out :)