Those descriptive phrases that you over-use.

[Andrew]

Carla wrote: "I felt as if I'd met God. ;)


Your theology is scary! :) Look forward to reading more of your posts.

[Kevin]

Andrew wrote: "Kevin wrote: Back on topic, I've had it pointed out that the whole a passage I had up for review on YouWriteOn only used 'sai..."

Is YouWriteOn worthwhile? Or another pay-to-subnmit contest hub?"

I think YouWriteOn is good for newbies...but it can also foster some people to keep up bad habits. Those with an interest to make the top of their lists might not seek writing advice.

I used it early on and for me I saw the pros and cons.

[L.T.]

What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you can't. I've chosen to keep it simple and handle it this way:

Bump said, "Then let's get it done."

Danny said, "But how_"

Gruf said, "Yeah. Not as easy as it sounds."

Bump said, "Dude. I didn't say it'd be easy."

And I've noticed that as a reader, when "said" is used this way, my eye catches who's talking and I don't even notice the "saids".

[Carla]

L.T. wrote: "What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you can't. I've chosen to keep it simple and handle it this ..."

If two characters are talking, I would handle it another way:

Bump said, "Then let's get it done."

"But how..." Danny said.

"...yeah, not as easy as it sounds," Gruf interrupted.

"I didn't say it would be easy."

Everyone looked at Bump as if he had two heads.

Just laying it out in blank said for every line read monotonous to me, but this way, for me, even my white space is varied and broken up.

[Andrew]

Carla wrote: "L.T. wrote: "What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you can't. I've chosen to keep it simple and ha..."

Carla, I've just had a highly regarded professional editor tell me to use em dash for interruptions. I see you do it my way. Have things changed recently? Or is that one editor's opinion?

[Carla]

Andrew wrote: "Carla wrote: "L.T. wrote: "What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you can't. I've chosen to keep it..."

Definitely one editor's opinion. The Chicago Manual of Style lists both as viable forms of grammar, and it's now the new go-to for such matters. This editor should've checked it, since they're supposed to be consulting it.

[Jay]

Styles come and go. I think whatever is clear and easy for the reader, and feels natural for you as a writer, is fine. Otherwise you're interrupting the flow of the writing for no good reason.

I've been a reader since I was 3 and I didn't even notice the way such things were handled if they were done well. It wasn't until I became a writer as well that I started analysing what wasn't working IMO. I also started analysing what did and found a huge variation.

[Hannah]

Question:
Does anyone write dialogue like this?

My gaze does not waver as her hands move probably trying to distract me from my goal.
"What are you doing here Carla?"
"Why do you care?"
"I care more than you think"
Hrr eyes seem to soften just a tad.

[Kevin]

Carla wrote: "Andrew wrote: "Carla wrote: "L.T. wrote: "What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you can't. I've ch..."

Interesting. In my rewrites of my novel I got rid of the em dashes.

[Carla]

Hannah wrote: "Question:
Does anyone write dialogue like this?

My gaze does not waver as her hands move probably trying to distract me from my goal.
"What are you doing here Carla?"
"Why do you care?"
"I care mo..."

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I srsly don't know what you're asking. Do you mean, does anyone write dialogue without proper punctuation? (There should be a comma after here in the first sentence, and a period after think.) Or with text-speak? (Hrr eyes.) Or without the "said"? Or with serpentine narrative without proper punctuation that reads clunky? (My gaze does not waver...)

I've read a lot of books in which the author simply leaves it out. In fact, when I was editing The Gaslight Journal, I was told as long as I could scan a conversation and still follow who said what, then it was perfectly acceptable to leave them out. Especially when there are just two people talking back and forth.

I'm sorry--I really don't know what you were asking.

[Carla]

Kevin wrote: "Carla wrote: "Andrew wrote: "Carla wrote: "L.T. wrote: "What an interesting thread.

Sometimes you have to avoid "said." Other times, for instance when you have a group of characters talking, you ..."

Strunk & White, up until recently was THE definitive source for punctuation, grammar and proper usage. It's only been within about the last ten years that everyone has switched to The Chicago Manual of Style. (Although I still love S&W, and unlike TSMoS, there is a free online version.) Any editor, agent or publisher worth their salt and astute in their field will have it on their desk. (And no, as you can see, I'm not a fan of the Oxford comma. ;) )

[Hannah]

I was typing on my ipod so sorry for the grammatical mistakes. I know what they are. Though I am young I know a great deal. Im typing on my ipod now. So sorry about my blantant disregard for using commas and a few spelling mistakes. My question is about the dialogue. I always write this way and i am just wondering if other people do it too. I find that readers are better able to infer and figure out the tone and facial expressions based on proper character construction in the first place. I dont find the reading chunky or clogged down with useless additives. It reads straight forward and to the point with interuptions about important changes from time to time to progress the interaction.

[Carla]

Hannah wrote: "I was typing on my ipod so sorry for the grammatical mistakes. I know what they are. Though I am young I know a great deal. Im typing on my ipod now. So sorry about my blantant disregard for using ..."

Hmmn. The only way I know to answer that is to say that dialogue serves several purposes, and if it's just there for the author to feel clever, then it shouldn't be there. Its purposes are to further the action, shed light on what types of people these are, show their true character and to give the reader more of the story. Sometimes, dialogue is even used for backstory, but that one should be used sparingly.

I hope that answered your question.

[Judith]

When I was taking a course in copy-editing, our prof put 60 (yes, 60) style manuals on reserve in the library. There's so much variation, I'm sure you could find one that used ellipses for interruptions. However, after editing fiction for ten years, I use em-dashes for interruptions (at the end of the interrupted phrase only), and ellipses for when the speaker trails off.

[Carla]

Judith wrote: "When I was taking a course in copy-editing, our prof put 60 (yes, 60) style manuals on reserve in the library. There's so much variation, I'm sure you could find one that used ellipses for interrup..."

Yes, there are tons of them out there, which is why I said it was just one editor's opinion, because style is subjective. I was only pointing out that the CMoS seemed to be the top choice.

[Travis]

I personally find it more fun to imagine what is going on, as long as the people are talking, I think it is ok if their dialogue is kind of "bulletted."

I read a book one time, and they said try to think of what you actually wrote. Have you ever "smiled" a line? If it is something you wouldn't normally do, like pulling on your pants "as" you turn off the water. It can be done, but hard to envision.

In my new book I am trying not to add few dialogue tags. This makes the book read faster with more urgency.

[Judith]

It depends on the genre. My son reads books with no dialogue tags. If the author is extremely good at characterizing with speech characteristics it can work fine. "Beats" are those descriptions of action used instead of attributions. You get away with using them by punctuating with a period instead of a comma.
"So glad to see you, my dear." He twirled his mustache.

[Travis]

I like the use of beats as well, it helps you identify who is speaking without adding some hastily added thing. To me "he said," "she asked," are repetative, but they often work (I am told).

Also, I write young adult fiction, so I think that forces you to be faster in pace (though I have read some popular young adult books that have bored me to tears).

Anyway, this is all very interesting. I am just starting out in my "serious" writing career so any literature you guys can recommend in writing fiction would be great!

[Jay]

DH Lawrence and Maeve Binchy
How's that for contrasting styles! And if I ever come close to their mastery of English I shall be very happy.

I'm trying to glean some wisdom from various manuals, but reading good fiction is far more enjoyable.

[Judith]

Travis wrote: "I like the use of beats as well, it helps you identify who is speaking without adding some hastily added thing. To me "he said," "she asked," are repetative, but they often work (I am told).

Also,..."

Sol Stein. Yes, I realize he was popular in the 1970s, but I'm not recommending his fiction; I'm recommending his books on writing. They're topically organized and emphasize the effect you get if you use certain tactics. You can follow his rules or break them, but at least you know why and how to do either. Have you ever seen instructions for "finding your voice?"

[Carla]

Judith wrote: "Travis wrote: "I like the use of beats as well, it helps you identify who is speaking without adding some hastily added thing. To me "he said," "she asked," are repetative, but they often work (I a..."

I'm weary, personally, of any writer's how-to book whose fiction doesn't live up to its own advice. This is true of Stein and most disciples of his. They seem to be able to explain and summarise his precepts well, but can't seem to apply those precepts to their own writing; it just falls flat and lacks conflict/urgency.

[Jay]

Tui Allen (Ripple) recommended Gotham Writers' Workshop. I am finding the points well argued, very clear, with examples of what is being described. I would probably get more from it if I tried the various exercises, but I'm struggling to get the time just to read it. Even so I've been given plenty to think about. At least now I know where and why I'm going wrong ;)

[Hannah]

Thank you Travis and Judith! You both have been very helpful in answerinv my question. I thought I was imagining things for a moment. Im happy to hear that you both have experienced these dialogue tabs. I didnt even know it had a name. So thanks!