Sword and Laser definitions?

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

For the purpose of this group, and to hopefully end the tiresome arguments over whether or not a book is or isn't sci-fi/fantasy, how about we label Sword books as books which contain elements of fantasy, and Laser books as books which contain elements of sci-fi? This way, even if a book may not perfectly fit someone's definition of sci-fi, it will still fit within the 'Lazer' heading, and thus negate the need to argue.

This is just a suggestion, and I'm new here, so I don't want to be treading on any toes or anything, but I don't feel like this group is meant to be just about hard sci-fi and classic fantasy, though they are both valid options, of course. But it's not called 'the very serious science fiction and fantasy book group', it's called 'Sword and Laser' so surely we can be looser with the definitions without upsetting anyone.

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

I thought those were our definitions of Sword and Laser.

You'll never stop the arguments as a lot of books don't fall neatly into one category.

Where do you put Bitter Seeds?
It has technology based powers, it also has magic based powers and alternate history.

Then we have books like Reamde that don't really fall into either.

[Stefan]

There are some books out there (like Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun) that blur the lines between science fiction and fantasy, portraying science as fantasy. There is some gray area when assigning these definitions. I think Sword and Laser can coexist peacefully and both can even claim bits and pieces from each other.

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Tassie Dave, perhaps; I didn't see anything stating that, but I'm new here, so maybe I overlooked it. All I got was laser = sci-fi, sword = fantasy, which leads people to argue over what fits into what.

With regards to the books that don't fit easy into the 'official' categories, that was basically my point. If a book has fantasy elements, it can be read in the 'Sword' month. If it also has sci-fi elements, it can also be read in the 'Laser' month; if people are happy enough to vote for it in that month and it has at least an element of that genre, that's all that matters, and if people say 'this book isn't sci-fi', you can say 'maybe not, but it's a Laser' and with luck that will be the end of it...in an ideal world! lol

[Nimrod]

I still say it's Sword AND Laser... So Argue all you want, but I would expect for each book to have elements of at least one or the other or both in some occasions...

I may be too green around the edges in this group to toss this around, but if someone strictly wants one or the other, maybe there's a better fitting group for them?

IDK, I think I'm just going to stay out of the genre threads and keep reading both.

[Gordon]

I think the conversations can be fun and enlightening, as long as the participants remain civil. It'd be a shame to get rid of them.

[Nimrod]

Additional note, don't we all vote on it?

For us to nominate a book that is strictly sword or laser, we would have to already come to terms with the content of the book... seeing as we would have to read the book to discuss it, then maybe we should put it up for a vote? oh wait...

[Nimrod]

Gord wrote: "I think the conversations can be fun and enlightening, as long as the participants remain civil. It'd be a shame to get rid of them."

Agreed, but if every thread on the matter for every book we read has people copying and pasting definitions from wikipedia, then we wouldnt really be discussing the book...

[Tassie Dave, S&L Historian]

We don't always vote. Veronica and Tom sometimes exercise their dictatorial powers and choose for us.

The Magicians, Rule 34 & Ready Player One are recent books we haven't voted on.

I enjoy books that blur the lines between Sci-fi and fantasy.

[Nimrod]

Tassie Dave wrote: "We don't always vote. Veronica and Tom sometimes exercise their dictatorial powers and choose for us."

Oh... lol Good to know!

[Ruth (tilltab) Ashworth]

Gord wrote: "I think the conversations can be fun and enlightening, as long as the participants remain civil. It'd be a shame to get rid of them."

If the conversations go along the lines of 'even though it's a sword pick, I felt it was more of a sci-fi book, because...' then I agree it can be interesting to hear people's views, but when it goes from a discussion about the book to an argument far away from the book, one that goes around in circles and suggests that it was 'wrong' to read the book because it doesn't fit one definition, I think it can become a little irritating. I thought if there was an agreement to be more free with the definitions for books chosen there would be less of the latter.

[Aloha]

If there's a Godwin's Law in which any comparison to the Nazis immediately gets the poster the silent treatment, I say we adopt the:

FaScism (Fantasy Scifi-sm) Law: The only time to argue over whether the book fits Laser or Sword is during nomination. After the vote, you have to shut up or else the argument over whether it's SciFi or Fantasy gets the silent treatment.

[Aloha]

For greater dramatic effect, the moment someone posts that a book doesn't fall under a particular genre after it's been picked, we heckle the person with

FaScist! FaScist! FaScist!

before we give the person the silent treatment.