The World of Dreams, Sleep Paralysis (SP) and Lucid Dreaming

[Luciana]

Nell wrote: "It's good that reading has helped with the presence - knowledge is power - and interesting that you were lucid (you knew you were dreaming) in the first part of the SP experience. I know I'm dreami..."

Thank you very much. Eventually I will come to you for reading suggestions.

[Little]

All my SP experiences have been terrifying too Luciana. I feel as if something huge is on top of me, smothering me. My eyes are open, I can see the room around me, but I can hardly breathe let alone move at all. It doesn't happen as often now but this year I have had brief, bizarre hallucinations upon waking, odd things that are visible among the solid things around me, then they vanish.

I think we travel in the bardo, or the world between worlds, when we dream. This is the state we return to when we die. I often meet up with those I love in my dreams, both those who have died, and those distant from me. Last night it was a wonderful friend I haven't seen in almost twenty years. And I do swear it was him, I could feel him in his hug.

My lovely girl Freya (friends called her my familiar:)) died in 2008. Sending you best thoughts as I understand your pain.

Freya told me in a dream before she died that she had to go on ahead, and that she didn't want me to panic when she did. I did of course, but we have visited each other in dreams so many times since, that I know we are not really separated. I think Alecrim is right there, also connected to you by your love for each other, nothing ever severs that. Certainly nothing as transitory as death.

[Luciana]

Little wrote: "All my SP experiences have been terrifying too Luciana. I feel as if something huge is on top of me, smothering me. My eyes are open, I can see the room around me, but I can hardly breathe let alon..."

Hi Little. I'm so sorry for your lost, but at the same time I'm glad you are able to communicate with Freya.

The SP hit me in a much older age, I'm 37 now and I can have weekly attacks. One night I had 3 in a row, because I managed to set myself free 2 times right on the beggining. Normally I'm fully awake, I might even have had breakfast, then I nap and I'm sucked to my body like a vacuum cleaner. In that occasion I was able to move with great strengh before I get completely paralised.

As a child I used to be sleep walker, but never with a SP attack.

I won't come here for every single night experience I have, but I will mention tonight's because it might be a sequel from Nell's advice.

I started the suggestion about dreaming with Alecrim, but she didn't come. Instead I woke up ALL-NIGHT-LONG with imaginary noises such as bells, something hitting the wall, mechanic toys... One single noise for each awakening.

As expected, the SP began. Once paralised, it felt like an earthquake inside me. For the very first time I wasn't scared. I just waited to see what happens (my partner believes I'm about to have OBE), but it was just about the shaking.

I got tired of it, forced myself out, touched my partner, she woke up, we hugged and I started to tell what happend.

Then the "door bell rang" (imagenary) and I woke up for real. My partner was asleep, we weren't hugging and talking!

Did I dream I had a SP? Did I have a dream inside a dream, since I woke up twice? Did I have a SP with an wakening hallucination? I don't know. It's funny, it felt like any other episode, but I woke up 2 times.

But what really calls my attention were those single noises waking me up the whole night. Could it be Alecrim? Well, I will keep on reading both books and posts to learn from your experiences.

And thank you again.

[Little]

Yes, it is like being sucked into a vacuum isn't it? I had one where I closed my eyes and immediately an enormous red planet filled my vision, then its gravity sucked me in. I had an intense aversion to the planet, almost terror, but couldn't break free.

Physically the condition happens to me most when I am sleeping on my back, and is linked to my breathing. I also get vertigo so I am a very careful sleeper now (I can't turn my head too fast or I go into a sickening spin). Do you find this to be the case too Luciana? (Sleeping on your back not the vertigo. :))

I recently read The Tibetan Book of the Dead and have to say my concept of the dream state, and of life, has clarified to the point that I feel there is little distinction between the two. The cross over points when we fall into sleep and when we wake up, are a bit like little births and deaths. It's hard to remember what happened before once you cross the veil, to remember you are alive and possessing a gross body when dreaming, and then to remember the dreaming state when we awake. But I think I'm waffling here...

Re your awakening within the dream then awakening again I have woken up and sleep walked, still immersed my dream, and it has taken me up to twenty minutes to register the new reality around me as being the one I'm supposed to be in. However you sounded like you hadn't woken at all but were entering another dream stage.

Like you, others have told me they think my SPs are the beginnings of OBEs but I feel swallowed or smothered, rather than on the edge of flight. I can understand that SP is linked to breathing but why the eyes open bit? And when I was a child it was linked to hallucinations. So I'd be in bed, eyes open, unable to move, while things zoomed in and out around me. Very unpleasant things I'll add. This sounds like your night of disturbing noises? I sometimes will have that too, a song from a radio, although we don't have one and we are a long way from our nearest neighbours.

Can I ask how are you finding the book Dark Intrusions? I have read many of John Keel's Fortean books and am wondering if this one is going a similar direction or has alternative information.

Will mention too that one of the Deleted Users earlier in this thread is me, in my author skin, which I have since discarded. But if you see the double ups in dream experiences etc, that's why. :)

[Nell]

Little wrote: Physically the condition happens to me most when I am sleeping on my back, and is linked to my breathing. I also get vertigo so I am a very careful sleeper now (I can't turn my head too fast or I go into a sickening spin).

This happened to me a few months ago. I turned over suddenly onto my back in bed and the room lurched and began to spin. I was violently sick and had to move my head very carefully all day as it seemed to be positional. I rang the doctor who told me to Google BPPV - benign paroxysmal positional vertigo. I've had one other attack since then and tend to sleep very carefully now too.

You mention sleeping on the back and breathing, which makes me think of sleep apnea, but I hadn't considered before that the odd sleep effects mentioned in this thread could be linked to oxygen deprivation. Worth thinking about.

[Luciana]

I never had vertigo and I never saw anything in my attacks, it's quite simple actually: can't move, can't talk, CAN see the real world, feel an evil presence in the room, sometimes it touches me.

Studies show that most attacks happen in supine position. I've had in all positions, but normally to me it happens with my tummy down, because it's how I like to sleep. I even have a special pillow for this position.

When you are paralised you breath involuntary, but as you are awake in the SP you want to take control of it, but you can't, giving you the sensation you can't breath.

Science was my first choice in dealing with this issue, but they didn't offer me anything. I've read, I've watched videos, but the attacks were becoming stronger and stronger.

If I have insomnia and nap in early morning, the SP comes. As science said, I tried to repeat to myself over and over "you don't exist", "this is a SP and will finish soon". Didn't work at all. They were empty words, how could I tell myself that is just an hallucination created by my own mind when it feels so real?

I came to a point of being terrified of falling asleep and decided enough is enough. I went to my yoga teachers, my brazilian friend that goes to eubiose and I asked James Van Praagh. Nobody helped me. It feels like whoever doesnt't know what is it all about blames on my own mind.

Where did I find relief? Here:
Dark Intrusions: An Investigation into the Paranormal Nature of Sleep Paralysis Experiences

I'm not saying I believe the attacks are caused by lower level entities that suck energy like vampires, but it's possible, as much as it could be only my imagination, as science claims. From my understanding nothing is proved, but one thing I know for sure: reading about paranormal possibilities made the evil go away and reading posts in this group made the fear go away.

That's what worked for me, which I'm sure won't work to everybody else.

Little, I will make another post about the book.

[Luciana]

This is the very first title I read about anything discussed in this group. So I think while everything to me is new, to you it might sound basic.

I'm taking ages to read it because I repeat pages a lot in order to better understand.

In part 1 he talks about his own and other's people cases, giving you a good picture of how the SP happens to different people. I was impressed to see the similarities. I truly think if it was somebody's mind, it should vary a bit more, be more creative, more crazy and diversified, but it isn't.

I thought that reading about other attacks would give my mind more ideas and my attacks would become worse. I really considered of not reading this book. But I risked and as I said, the evil fade away from me. I don't know how, but it seems to be gone.

In part 2 he is going through other phenomenas and studies, such as haunting, poltergeist, Joe Fisher, Stan Gooch, Jane Roberts, Shamanism. After exposing a new topic, he links it with SP and maybe that might be the new part for you, the link.

This is how much I've gone so far, I thought he would give tools or exercise to control it, but he didn't. Maybe the tool I was looking for was only knowledge.

[Nell]

Luciana wrote: "I started the suggestion about dreaming with Alecrim, but she didn't come. Instead I woke up ALL-NIGHT-LONG with imaginary noises such as bells, something hitting the wall, mechanic toys... One single noise for each awakening"

If this has never happened before, it seems as though it might have something to do with the auto-suggestions, perhaps Alecrim, perhaps not. I don't think it would do any harm to continue with them though, these things can take time to work. You could try one to help you avoid the SP too, but should be very careful how these things are worded - never negative, always positive suggestions. For example: Tonight I will sleep peacefully and wake refreshed (positive), rather than Tonight I will have no SP (negative).

Luciana wrote:But I risked and as I said, the evil fade away from me. I don't know how, but it seems to be gone.

You're very brave, and strong too. Things will get even better - believe it :)

[Luciana]

Nell wrote: "Luciana wrote: "I started the suggestion about dreaming with Alecrim, but she didn't come. Instead I woke up ALL-NIGHT-LONG with imaginary noises such as bells, something hitting the wall, mechanic..."

Thanks Nell, it's very sweet of you!

[Little]

Nell wrote: "Little wrote: Physically the condition happens to me most when I am sleeping on my back, and is linked to my breathing. I also get vertigo so I am a very careful sleeper now (I can't turn my head t..."

Vertigo is horrible, I've had it since my twenties and when I get a particularly strong spin it can go on for hours and include vomiting. Times like that stretch my appreciation of having a gross body at all. Avoiding it is all about slow head movements, including looking up ('top shelf vertigo'). I sometimes have a laugh at how easy it would be to overpower me. Spin me around once and I'd be on the floor. Cheap thrills. :)

I have heard Nell that there is a treatment in order to remove calcium deposits in the middle ear that can shift on sudden movement and cause the vertiginous symptoms. Personally I'd be scared to try it though. I just stick to very slow head movements.

[Little]

Luciana wrote: "I never had vertigo and I never saw anything in my attacks, it's quite simple actually: can't move, can't talk, CAN see the real world, feel an evil presence in the room, sometimes it touches me.

..."

It is strange about the 'evil' presence bit as it has always been present in my SP episodes too. My childhood SP hallucinations consisted of flames on my bedroom wall, shadowy beings and oddly enough, counting blocks (probably because I hated maths, who knows what the mind will produce under stress). I do wonder if the sinister or evil presence feeling may be attributed to our bodies/instincts reaction to the sudden loss of air and consciousness, whilst being paralysed. The ultimate threat to our existence made manifest?

I do not believe in an all powerful god of 'evil', I do however, now believe in malevolent entities, but this is as of this year only. In fact this belief came as a horrible shock and I spent a day in tears, absolutely shaken. I am still in two minds about so much to do with LAEs, my biggest problem is not with their existence, or with the idea that some are malicious and interfering, but with the idea of just HOW much they can affect us.

I had a case of extreme paranoia earlier in the year after the channeling experience and then after reading Joe Fisher's book (in order to find answers for what I had encountered). I wasn't sure about reading Dark Intrusions as I really don't want to reawaken those fears, but I may read it now after hearing your feedback Luciana.

Have to add that I didn't even know that others had SP experiences too until this year. I just thought it was part of the oddness of being me. :)

[Nell]

Little wrote: " have heard Nell that there is a treatment in order to remove calcium deposits in the middle ear that can shift on sudden movement and cause the vertiginous symptoms. Personally I'd be scared to try it though. I just stick to very slow head movements.
"

I'd be scared to try that too. There's also a sort of cap with a kind of antenna that you move through different positions in order to shift the guilty particle and send it back where it belongs. It's expensive though, and is only good for one useage. Careful head movements for me too :)

[Little]

Nell wrote: "Little wrote: " have heard Nell that there is a treatment in order to remove calcium deposits in the middle ear that can shift on sudden movement and cause the vertiginous symptoms. Personally I'd ..."

That cap might produce dangerous levels of laughter, thus causing further problems through unrestrained movement of the head. :D Actually two pillows or one larger one helps me too, so that my head is higher than the rest of me. Best to you Nell, and you too Luciana. Hoping the last couple of nights have been more restful!

[Little]

Long quote, bear with me.

"If modern science discovered the pineal gland relatively late, the ancients certainly knew of it very early on, and also believed they understood how to manipulate it to achieve altered states. The Egyptians clearly depicted it as a uraeus snake and in Indian literature it is shown as the Third Eye of Enlightenment, or the Eye of Shiva. It was depicted as the pine-cone-topped wand of the followers of Dionysus, and a fourth-century BC Greek anatomist described it as 'the sphincter which regulates the flow of thought'.

They saw the pineal gland as an organ of perception of higher worlds, a window opening on to the brightness and wonder of the spiritual hierarchies. This window could be opened systematically by meditation and other secret practices which gave rise to visions. Recent research at the University of Toronto has shown that meditating on the pineal gland using methods recommended by Indian yogis causes it to release a rush of melatonin, the secretion that causes us to have dreams and, in sufficient dosages, can also cause waking hallucinations."

The Secret History of the World

[Nell]

Fascinating Gina - just bought the Kindle book, which is only £1.54 - thanks for the pointer :)

[Nell]

Luciana, I've just listened to the podcast entitled Astral Projection, on Chasing Hermes. Sleep paralysis is mentioned as a useful way to leave the body and travel astrally - lucid dreaming is mentioned too and I believe there are also helpful links.

[Luciana]

Interesting, interesting... I also didn't know about SP till this year, when things got really nasty and I decided to check it out.

I don't think anyone knows for real the hallucinations' nature, not even the scientist. It's up to us to choose what to believe in and I have a little problem when believing is needed. Yesterday I watched to a 40 minutes video, a Uni class about SP and after 1/2 hour of repeating the same old routine about SP the teacher finally said "we don't know exactly what it is, but we know lots of information about it", yes, he said something like that: don't know what it is... Well, thank you for admitting it, Sir!!!

I've been working on Nell's suggestion, but I really need some practice. It seems to work, but not as fast as I wish. 2 nights ago was ok, this one was a bit odd... I woke up 2 times knowing I was following a path to a inevitable attack, then I got scared and kept myself awake for an hour or so. I focused on Nell's suggestion and eventually fell asleep with no attack. Thumbs up to Nell!

Yes, I've read about leaving the body connection with SP and my next book would be about practicing it. I thought if I learn the projection, then I can control any attack, but I read so many comments around this group about not messing with things from the other side, that I think I will skip the astral projection for now. I might only try to avoid attacks.

Dark Intrusions mentioned yesterday a lady that shifts easily among SP, OBE and LD. Let me check who is she... Lucy Gillis. She has an article called Wrestling with Ghosts that should be in a journal and website called The Lucid Dreaming Exchange, but right now I can't find the "shifting" part.

Little, if you get impressed with entities, please be careful with Dark Intrusions, there are some scary stories there. I can't explain how it is helping me since he hasn't really tought how to control it. I think he will on the last chapter, but I'm not sure.

What does LAE stands for?

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

I had a few years of SP (and even some night terrors) when my roommates and I were living in our "haunted" apartment. They were classic, really, with the feeling of a malignant black evil floating over the bed and some hallucinations and that helpless "If I can just move I'll be safe" feeling. My roommates experienced some peripheral stuff, but I seemed to take the brunt of it, and it occurred whether they were home for the night or not. (We constantly heard the furniture moving in the front room and the front door opening and closing, but when we'd get up, everything was as it should be.)

An interesting component of this was that sometimes if I moved my eyes to my left side I could see a shadow being sitting by the side of the bed. But it wasn't particularly scary, odd as that may sound. It looked rather like a curvy woman wearing a head to toe black body stocking! I won't say it was a reassuring presence, but it wasn't hostile and it seemed, more than anything else, to be observing what was going on.

All of this pretty much stopped when we moved out of this apartment. I had one more incident at the new place and then nothing more since (thank the gods). It may have just been a bad place, however (and this is a large caveat) I also discovered three years after I'd moved that I had thyroid cancer which had slowly been eroding my chemical balance and sending me into a strange place. That was years ago now and the cancer was eradicated (again, thank the gods) and hasn't returned and my chemical balance and sanity were restored. At least, I think my sanity was restored. :-) What passes for, at any rate.

So, I don't know if the SP was due to a bad place, bad chemistry (which doesn't entirely explain my roommates' experiences), or a combination of both. We also had large power lines over the apartment, so there may have been an electromagnetic component. Either and opening, or EMT-induced hallucinations.

Oh, and entities, if you're listening, I INVITE NOTHING IN. (You can't be too careful.)

[Little]

Nell wrote: "Fascinating Gina - just bought the Kindle book, which is only £1.54 - thanks for the pointer :)"

I was just about to send it through as a book recommendation for you, Nell :) :) I'm finding it pretty amazing actually. It fits. The passages on Lucifer and the snake symbolising our evolution from plant into animal form, has triggered off an explosion of images in my mind that will keep me going art-wise for months! Odin hanging on the world tree, and the tree hung shamans, take on new depth. I've looked at the Great Solar Year and it's connections to time on earth before but never in such detail, and with the Gods involvement. I'll be reading this one again and making notes the second time round. Right now I'm just absorbing. And there's a lot to absorb. :)

[Little]

Luciana wrote: "Interesting, interesting... I also didn't know about SP till this year, when things got really nasty and I decided to check it out.

I don't think anyone knows for real the hallucinations' nature, ..."

LAEs lower astral entities. Thought it good to shorten and also not to draw too much attention to them. My stance now is unless I invite them in, I don't need to worry about them. I won't strengthen negative matter with my fear or as I originally did, with my anger. My inner terror was in discovering the existence of maliciousness outside of humans, and in this case in a spirit posing as an angel. When I realised that the woman channeling the entity wasn't mad, and I read the messages channelled for me, well, it was a very rude shock to say the least. But the bottom line is this woman invited this entity in, it didn't force itself on her, she's made room for it every step of the way. That's why I finally came back to my senses and lost my paranoia.

Personally I don't think meditation, or astral traveling, or shamanic journeying are dangerous, given the right guidance (in the case of journeying) from those who are learned practitioners: gurus and shamans. I also think from the book I'm reading, that we have overactive pineal glands. :) Which I think is a good thing. Also Luciana you might be interested in The Secret History of the World too, the sounds, the rings and bells are described as being heard by some as they ascend the astral levels.

Minsma wrote: "I had a few years of SP (and even some night terrors) when my roommates and I were living in our "haunted" apartment. They were classic, really, with the feeling of a malignant black evil floating ..."

That's interesting Minsma, I had troubles with my thyroid (over active) up until my late teens. I wonder if anyone has looked at that link too? If the pineal gland sends us dreams, how do chemical imbalances caused by over, or under-active thyroids affect our dream states and the time before and after them? Glad you're better now! :)

[Nell]

Luciana, so glad the autosuggestion is helping, but it does take time, so keep going :)

Little wrote: "I had troubles with my thyroid (over active) up until my late teens. I wonder if anyone has looked at that link too? If the pineal gland sends us dreams, how do chemical imbalances caused by over, or under-active thyroids affect our dream states and the time before and after them? "

I believe hormones of different kinds have a huge effect on dreams and dream phenomena - I had terrible nightmares throughout all three pregnancies.

[Nell]

Minsma wrote: "So, I don't know if the SP was due to a bad place, bad chemistry (which doesn't entirely explain my roommates' experiences), or a combination of both."

Interesting story, Minsma, especially about the non-threatening presence. Taking all things into consideration is probably a good way to tackle SPs - that way one can consider ways to mitigate the different effects, although moving is probably the only way to escape magnetic forces of any kind. I'm glad you're clear of the thyroid cancer - it must be a tremendous relief :)

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Little wrote: "If the pineal gland sends us dreams, how do chemical imbalances caused by over, or under-active thyroids affect our dream states and the time before and after them? "

I'm absolutely convinced that when the chemistry is off we have an intense stew of stuff going on in our psyche. My dreams were off the chart weird back then. My thyroid was under active from at least my early twenties when it was first diagnosed, but I suspect it was wonky well before that.

And who knows? Maybe the chemical stew makes us more receptive to other stuff as well.

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Nell wrote: "Interesting story, Minsma, especially about the non-threatening presence.... one can consider ways to mitigate the different effects, although moving is probably the only way to escape magnetic forces of any kind. I'm glad you're clear of the thyroid cancer - it must be a tremendous relief :) "

That presence was deeply uncanny. I can even begin to say what that was about.

And, yes, I do believe one has to consider a variety of approaches to SP, both scientific and non-scientific. I don't think one answer covers all the permutations that exist in peoples' experiences.

Thanks about the cancer. It was a long time ago now, but it is a big relief to still be clear. :-)

[Luciana]

As drugs and rituals can create the state, it does make sense that chemicals play a role in the whole thing.

I'm really glad for you Minsma that you are cancer free. I can't imagine what a battle that is.

Little, I'm reading The Secret History of the World. It does make you think... It doesn't feel like reading, it feels like studying, if you know what I mean. We did have the here already. I was showing these posts to my partner and she said she got it as a birthday present. I wouldn't read if it wasn't by you, thanks!

It brings me back to Minsma, because yesterday after reading I was saying the same, that science and, as the author says, the esoteric philosophers should work together.

Since they don't, it's up to us to put all the pieces together.

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Luciana wrote: "because yesterday after reading I was saying the same, that science and, as the author says, the esoteric philosophers should work together."

Yes, it's absolutely frustrating to me that the two sides often act as if it's armed conflict. We could make so much more progress if everyone recognized that it's an integrated universe, large enough for both things to work together.

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Little wrote: "My inner terror was in discovering the existence of maliciousness outside of humans, and in this case in a spirit posing as an angel."

I'm trying to catch up on this conversation after having jumped into it in the middle (Bad, Minsma!) and reread this entry. It reminded me of John Dee and Edward Kelley and their Elizabethan experiences with tricksters. Actually, Kelley may have been the trickster in this case, but it shows the whole thing of receiving "messages from angels" which lead to a disastrous turn for those receiving messages is probably as old as mankind. Maybe older. And so seductive. And so easy to fall into.

[Little]

Luciana wrote: "As drugs and rituals can create the state, it does make sense that chemicals play a role in the whole thing.

I'm really glad for you Minsma that you are cancer free. I can't imagine what a battle ..."

I'm finding it amazing Luciana. What's more it fits with my understanding of the great Mystery Schools, previously confusing, but very vivid dreams I've had in my life, all my reading of occult books, astrology including the Great Solar Year, world mythology and my inquiries into comparative religion and evolution itself, including the enormous leaps in consciousness the human race has experienced. It also fits with the books I've read on Fortean phenomena. I can see why it upsets some people too, but I'm loving it. Glad to have been able to mention it. I found it during one of my prolonged internet searches (in accordance with my avatar's name :))

Minsma wrote: "Little wrote: "My inner terror was in discovering the existence of maliciousness outside of humans, and in this case in a spirit posing as an angel."

I'm trying to catch up on this conversation af..."

Minsma I think you'd love this book! It covers this trickery too. It's incredibly inspiring art wise. Sending through a recommendation now. :)

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Little wrote: "Minsma I think you'd love this book! It covers this trickery too. It's incredibly inspiring art wise. Sending through a recommendation now. :)"

I've been very interested in the discussion of it. I just may have to have it!

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Little wrote: "Sending through a recommendation now. :) "

The link was for a book by Mark Booth. There's one by Jonathan Black of the same name and a subtitle of As Laid Down by the Secret Societies. Is that the one?

[Little]

Minsma wrote: "Little wrote: "Minsma I think you'd love this book! It covers this trickery too. It's incredibly inspiring art wise. Sending through a recommendation now. :)"

I've been very interested in the disc..."

It's mind blowing and consciousness altering, at least for me. :) It's also reaffirmed my pagan faith, reminded me of why I followed Dionysus and Orpheus, and it's helped me chill out a bit about Christianity (I've had an anti Christianity bee in my bonnet pretty much all my life, despite knowing that the old ways have been incorporated to some degree). It also fits in with The Tibetan Book of the Dead and stuff I've read on NDES too.

[Little]

Minsma wrote: "Little wrote: "Sending through a recommendation now. :) "

The link was for a book by Mark Booth. There's one by Jonathan Black of the same name and a subtitle of As Laid Down by the Secret Societi..."

Yes, Mark Booth and Jonathan Black are one and the same. That confused me on searching for it on Amazon too. :)

Here's the book: The Secret History of the World and on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-...

[Little]

From the above mentioned book The Secret History of the World:

"Paracelsus also had wonderful ideas about sleep and dreams. He said that during sleep the sidereal body--the animal spirit--becomes free in its movement. It may rise up, he said, to the sphere of its ancestors and converse with the stars. He said that spirits wishing to make use of men often act on them durning dreams, that a sleeping person can visit another in his dreams."

[PJ Who Once Was Peejay]

Little wrote: "Yes, Mark Booth and Jonathan Black are one and the same. That confused me on searching for it on Amazon too. :)"

Just logging on to tell you I figured that out! Thanks.

[Mari Frost]

I was wondering if maybe someone could help me figure out a dream I've been having

[Nell]

We have a thread for just that, Mariah :)

Dream Interpretation

[Mari Frost]

Thanks, sorry for the mix up I'm still trying to find my way around

[Luciana]

Little wrote:it's helped me chill out a bit about Christianity (I've had an anti Christianity bee in my bonnet pretty much all my life,


I could use some help there too!

[Little]

Minsma wrote: "Little wrote: "Yes, Mark Booth and Jonathan Black are one and the same. That confused me on searching for it on Amazon too. :)"

Just logging on to tell you I figured that out! Thanks."

:D

Luciana wrote: "Little wrote:it's helped me chill out a bit about Christianity (I've had an anti Christianity bee in my bonnet pretty much all my life,


I could use some help there too!"

I'd struggled with it for years, but my anger ran deep. I still have no love of the church as an institution, but the core ideas behind the faith are a continuation of past pagan truths of life, death and rebirth. :)

[Amy]

For years now I've been having nightmares. And each is really strange and many with violence. People killing others, other strange ways, things like someone harming my kitty, or me losing it. Me going through High school again where I've been bullied. Al strange and that's been going on for years now. And I have still no idea what it could be.

[Little]

I've changed the title of this topic so it is a better description of the subjects were are discussing here. It's now 'The World of Dreams, Sleep Paralysis (SP) and Lucid Dreaming'.

Also putting two other topic links here which relate:

'Psychopomps, Journeying, Hedge Riding and the Otherworld/Bardos/Astral Planes'
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Water Magic: Dream Interpretation: https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

[Little]

Amy wrote: "For years now I've been having nightmares. And each is really strange and many with violence. People killing others, other strange ways, things like someone harming my kitty, or me losing it. Me go..."

Sorry about my late reply Amy. Two things: I have found that nightmares are sometimes linked to a physical aliment that is causing me to have interrupted sleep. Other times there is an issue or problem in my life that I'm suppressing, and that needs to be addressed, and this creates nightmares in order to 'wake me up' to the reality of the problem.

At one point, a couple of years ago, my nightmares were so numerous and traumatic that I woke up feeling worse than when I'd gone to sleep. I actively sought to numb them, by various means, but this of course, meant that I was not facing the underlying issues at all. I therefore avoided the forewarnings, and when the reality of the situation I was in, finally hit me, it was all the more shocking.

Is there someone in your life you are not comfortable with, or who you suspect is not being truthful with you? Someone who is posing a threat to your health, physically or emotionally? Look deep, don't flinch from unpleasant truths. Workplace, place of learning, home? I have found the nightmares don't stop until the cause is addressed. sending strength and wishing you all the best. :)

[Sara]

I'm curious about why you chose to fold in the Psychopomps, Journeying topic here. Psychopomp work and Journeying could be better suited to a discussion on shamanism, as they are both part of a shamanic tool kit. I confess to next to no knowledge about the other two components. Can the first two still be discussed on other contexts?

[Little]

I have linked the Journeying thread here as the SP state is shamanic in nature. Those experiencing SP states have one foot on both sides of the veil (or one foot on either side of the hedge, in terms of hedge riding) even if they are not aware of this, and remain locked and earthbound through fear.

For further reading and referencing I thought it good to link the other thread here. I would love for people to get active in the Psychopomps and Journeying thread, especially in regards to suitable research books and individual experiences. :):)

[Sara]

Thanks for the explanation, Gina. I will go over to that thread and share a psychopomp experience from my training with the Foundation for Samanic Studies. It was quite unusual at least compared to the reports of others in the program.

[Little]

Wonderful. :):) Thanks Sara!