The World of Dreams, Sleep Paralysis (SP) and Lucid Dreaming

[[deleted user]]

It is great to be able to share! A few of my close friends listen and give credit to the content of my dreams. I don't tell others. How horrifying it would have been for you, to have dreamt their deaths, then to have it happen. Very unnerving! I think Cassandra's curse has always been the way for those that dream ahead. Most of mine are petty; arguments, angry relatives, accidents. I still take heed when I can (especially the angry relatives--helps me to avoid picking up the phone!). My most significant dreams have always been around times of birth and death. I have dreamt of the Goddess in her guise of the Dark Maiden too, realising that when you need her, she is both a lover and a friend. The dream marked the point of no return for a friend who was dying. I woke up sobbing, knowing it for what it was. But it gave me time to be with her, relishing every moment until she passed across.

I have made the thread in this group: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1...

I think it is such an important discussion. I'll be back this afternoon to add to it too. Best to you, Anita! :):)

[Velveteen]

I'm afraid to tell my friends about My dreams cause what they think of me.

[[deleted user]]

I can understand that. I found it harder when I was younger. Now I wear my weirdness with pride--well--maybe indifference to opinion, is more like it. I still don't discuss my dreams or Pagan beliefs with many though. Just easier not to.

[Nell]

I woke this morning from the weirdest dream. It was night, and somehow I had drifted (not walked) downstairs and was in the garden. Usually when I dream of being at home the house is nothing like my own, but this time everything was completely real, and I thought I was conscious, although in some sort of trance. I could hear a discussion about women bishops which was actually on the radio at the time (I'd fallen asleep with it on).

Now here's the weird bit. I was lying full length just above the grass, and travelling in circles around the lawn. I remember thinking that I needed to be careful not to fall off a small drop next to the house onto the path. I felt very strange, as if I could come out of the trance if I wished, but I chose to stay entranced. Then I looked up and saw that my husband had woken up and come out onto the balcony. He shone a torch on me then I woke up to the conversation on the radio.

I have dreamed of moving around like this before - usually at the point of sleep - I can choose whether to stay or go - and it always feels completely real - a sort of hypnogogic state I think.

[[deleted user]]

I think of these dream states as 'traveling', Nell. When Freya was alive, most nights I'd 'dream travel' to check on the chickens with her. I'd drift, or float, rather than walk, down to their house. I could feel the wind, see things in the darkness around me. I could see Freya padding along beside me. I've also 'travelled' to talk to friends, and fight with relatives (I kid you not :)).

I agree, it is a trance-like state, not quite asleep, not awake, not really dreaming. Yes, I often find it happens at the point of sleep, and I've experienced it since I was a child. I'm interested to see how many others have entered similar dream states.

A friend of mine said it sounded like astral traveling. What's your take on this?

Traveling circles above the grass is a detail worth figuring out.

Happy Yule, by the way! We just celebrated the Summer Solstice down here. Very beautiful in Tasmania, on the second day after the Not The End of the World. Warm but rainy. My ducks are having a ball.

Best to you Nell! :):)

[Nell]

Best to you too, Gina and a Happy Yule - hope the writing is going brilliantly.

Re. astral travelling, it does feel as I'd imagine that state to be, although I've never achieved it deliberately, so can't say for sure. I have experienced these odd half-sleep states before though, usually when I'm tired to the point of exhaustion, very stressed or have been lying in bed sleepless for many hours. They do feel very significant, and memorable too - unlike normal dreams, which so easily slip into the black hole of forgetting.

[Aaron, Moderator]

Nell, did you check the grass the next day? There might have been some sign of your passing there, or the dream might have been trying to tell you something significant about the area you were circling.

Dreams which are strange and don't resemble reality are usually symbolic. The ones which are a mirror reflection of waking, are usually much more direct in terms of their meaning. They can be taken more literally.

[Nell]

The grass was shorter in my dream, and dry - the weather has been wet on and off for days now. I have been in the garden this morning though, and didn't notice anything unusual, although I wasn't really looking. Funny - every time I look out of the window at the lawn I remember the strange feeling of circling like that.

[Stephen]

Hi Nell and all. An oldy but a goody you may be intrested in is "Journeys Out of the Body" by Robert A. Monroe. It is the acount of the experience of a person with a high natural apitude for Astral Projection.

Journeys Out of the Body

[Nell]

Thanks Stephen - will check it out.

[Judith]

I had a dream recently in which I was walking through the downtown area of the city I live in. There was a gospel competition in progress. A black woman was singing and the sound was unearthly. Her voice permeated the entire city. I was pulled toward the sound. It's the second such dream I've had. In the other, a group of Jewish women were standing outside a temple, holding music books and singing and again the sound was unearthly. They were singing in Hebrew, a language I don't know, although apparently I knew it in the dream. The sound was like the sound of angels and permeated all of space.

[Stephen]

Hi Judith. One view, a very aichent one, is that there is an Astral counterpart for every phisical manifestation. Spirit energies can bleed into these counterpoarts that otherwise resemble their material counterparts and as such they can become a meeting place between our conscious everydays selves and other powers. Just a thought.

[Judith]

Stephen wrote: "Hi Judith. One view, a very aichent one, is that there is an Astral counterpart for every phisical manifestation. Spirit energies can bleed into these counterpoarts that otherwise resemble their ma..."

That's interesting Stephen. I believe this music is present at all times, but we just don't hear it.

[[deleted user]]

Personally, I think we are like the first, blind creatures that existed in the Cambrian seas. We really haven't got a clue about the universe we inhabit. Sure, we are learning, but we still define reality by the very limited stimulus our physical senses can detect. If we can't touch, taste, hear, smell, or see it, we don't believe it exists. We also exert a lot of energy trying to convince ourselves and others, of the validity of our limited visions, and we mock those who challenge them.

The music sounds beautiful, Judith. I think the dream, and your ability to hear the singing, was very special. I also find it interesting that the singers were from very different faiths (Gospel music and Hebrew hymns) yet the sound was the same. "The sound was like the sound of angels and permeated all of space."

[Judith]

Georgina wrote: "Personally, I think we are like the first, blind creatures that existed in the Cambrian seas. We really haven't got a clue about the universe we inhabit. Sure, we are learning, but we still define ..."

I agree Georgina. We walk around with blinders on much of the time. But I think, once we recognize that the blinders exist, we can remove them.

[[deleted user]]

Definitely. :)

[[deleted user]]

So I had the weirdest nightmare last night. It concerned a psychotic Barbie doll (I kid you not). I separated her head from her body to stop her, and put both parts in separate places. As I walked away from the house, I looked back and could see the drawer that I'd placed her head in, moving, as if she was head-butting it open. I tried to rush back, kept stumbling, forced myself to walk slowly, but steadily. I arrived too late, and had to search for her again, then dismantle the pieces. The nightmare then slid into a running dream, and I woke feeling stressed. I'm finding it a hard one to interpret. Very weird indeed...:0

[Judith]

I think all Barbie dolls are terrifying. I would never let one in my house.

[[deleted user]]

Agreed! It was a very unsettling dream...

[Nell]

I find that dolls in dreams are usually surrounded by horror and terror, and Barbie has become an archetype.

If there's nothing in the previous day or so's events that could have prompted the appearance of Barbie, perhaps you have to ask yourself what she represents to you. The first thing that springs to mind is some sort of sexual threat, either to you or someone close to you, but I could be way off beam with that one - only you can dig deep enough to know how you truly feel about her. Clearly, whatever that is is connected to some deep-seated fear for yourself or someone close to you.

[Nell]

P.S. Sorry to sound more like a psychologist than an intuitive, but it has recently been confirmed that (as I thought) the left and right sides of my brain are exactly equal in influence...:)

[[deleted user]]

Hmmm, thinking on it now. Pretty sure I can link it to an event, working on the meaning. It was terrifying, especially looking back and seeing the drawer moving and knowing I couldn't reach the house in time. I'm suspecting it's about body image. Separating the head from the body was significant.

Thanks, Nell.:)

[Aaron, Moderator]

My first impression of the barbie archetype is "bitch." It makes me think of highschool bullies but that might just be me.

I like the idea of the body image thing. That seems a very apt interpretation.

[Nell]

These last few posts have made me wonder if traditional dream interpretations (presumably arrived at by the symbolic archetypal meanings) have any value at all. Suppose all three of us (Gina, Aaron and myself) had exactly this same dream - surely there would be three quite different meanings according to what Barbie means or represents to each of us?

I thought I'd look up 'doll' in my dream dictionary (it was a gift...!), but the word wasn't there. It's full though of quite specific examples of what it means to dream of certain things - here's one picked at random:

COMBING: To dream of combing the hair is a sign of prosperity following grief. If you are combing another person's hair, you will be obliged to accept a low situation, but unless the comb breaks you will rise to higher things.

For any person to dream of combing his own or someone else's hair is good, both for a man or a woman, because it signifies getting out of difficult times.

Your work will be heavy and profitless, especially if you find difficulty combing your hair; but if easy and the hair is beautiful it means gain and a new friendship.

[Judith]

Nell, good point. I've never understood how a dream could be interpreted uniformly for everyone. I'm sure symbols have a certain meaning, but how we work with them seems to relate to who we are and what our experiences in life have been. I've always disliked dolls, so if I had a dream about a Barbie I might think something negative had entered or was trying to enter into my life and that I might have to guard against that.

[Judith]

Here's a dream I had about a week ago. I note it to give you an idea of how I think what occurs in dreams is both universal and highly individualized and doesn't necessarily fit into standard dream interpretations.

Before I went to sleep I'd been reading a book about Enheduanna, High Priestess of the Moon God, Nanna, and devotee of Inanna.

As the dream begins I am awakened from sleep by four people entering the house I was in--3 men and one woman. The woman is small, compact, and dressed in Near/Middle Eastern garb-a head covering but no veil. We go into the kitchen and she stands close by me, offering me a bag of Middle Eastern coffee. She radiates an intense heat and compassion. I am nervous--who wouldn't be? I grab some coffee filters to make the coffee and see they have coffee grounds in them. She watches every move I make. I remove layer after layer of filters until only a few grounds remain. Then I wake up.

So I am sure there are many items in this dream that could be interpreted using dream books, but I think they would miss the meaning of all of this for me. First of all the house was my parents' house, which I interpreted to be a "house of the dead." I thought of Inanna going into the underworld. Next, in the dream, I woke up and saw the 4 people. My eyes were open. Third, the reason I thought this was Enheduanna is that I had just seen an image of her in which she was accompanied by 3 male attendants.

I kept pondering the dream and reading the book and came upon an item in the book that clarified something for me. Some of the devotees of Inanna were "burned by fire", that is purified by the heat of Inanna. I assume that means initiations. Thus the heat radiating from Enheduanna. The coffee grounds signified to me the layers of initiation I have gone through in my life to reach a point where only a few grounds remain.

Now I don't think any of that will be in a guidebook. I am not saying that there is no value in guidebooks, but am saying I think it's all a lot more complicated than that.

[Nell]

Judith, your dream sounds beautifully simple and special, both in symbolism and interpretation. I sometimes wonder if the 'special' dreams are the ones we're most likely to remember, although if we were able to remember them all we'd be less in this world than the dreamworld - whatever or wherever that may be.

Speaking of which, I've recently finished the book Stephen recommended a few post, up - Journeys Out of the Body - it blew me away. Thanks Stephen.

[Judith]

I agree Nell. We tend to remember the "special" dreams. We intuitively know that these dreams are important, whereas many of our other dreams are the brain sorting itself out during sleep, kind of a house keeping process.

[[deleted user]]

I agree about the dream books too, symbolism is specific for each and every one of us. Agreed too that there are special dreams and house keeping dreams. This felt like a warning--more the house keeping sort, however scary it was.

Nell, I think I'm going to have to ask for Journeys Out of The Body for my birthday. It sounds great, and I'm in the mood for a bit of traveling. :):)

[Nell]

It's amazing, Gina - no hype or histrionics, all events reported honestly without enhancement or judgement of any kind. And one instinctively trusts the author - there's a strong feeling that making money from from the book is irrelevant to him. It makes sense too. He does give instructions for achieving the Out of Body state, but after reading the book, I don't think I'd want to deliberately experience what he went through.

[[deleted user]]

I ordered it in from amazon last night. :) Really looking forward to it. Best to you and yours, Nell! :):)

[Nell]

Do let us know what you think of it. Gina. Best to you and yours too - hope the after-effects of the Barbie dream have gone now :)

[[deleted user]]

Will do, Nell. Yes, psycho Barbie is starting to recede. :):)

[[deleted user]]

Snakeskin this time. Massive amounts of it. No fear. It felt like a treasure of sorts.

Oh, and the Barbie nightmare was the night before a family visit. The event is telling. Figured the meaning out now.

[Nell]

That's good, Gina - I think it helps to write it down too. As for snakeskin, perhaps you're shedding or undergoing a transformation. Or maybe it's to do with your photograph (of a recent avatar)?

[[deleted user]]

Yes, my thoughts too. Not sure what the transformation will entail, I suppose I'll just go with the flow. :)

This new avatar is the middle piece of a triptych entitled Orphic Tale. It's a self portrait. I like to swap them around from time to time :):)

[Nell]

It's amazing...!

[[deleted user]]

Thank you! :):) The two outer pieces in the series are ravens.

[Nell]

Re. the subject of nightmares, which came up earlier in the thread (and in another too, if I remember correctly), I came across the following in A Modern Herbal yesterday while looking for something else:

Chamomile

It is considered a preventative and the sole remedy for nightmare. It will cut short an attack of delerium tremens in the early stage. It has sometimes been employed in intermittent fevers.

So, a cup of chamomile before bed then. If you're not keen on the taste, it's very good with Rooibos tea (a teabag of each in a large cup) and milk.

[[deleted user]]

Must get a copy of that book, Nell! I'll admit I don't like the taste of chamomile. I drink it for headaches sometimes, but you are right, it would make for a nightmare-free sleep. Of course, so does beer, but that's not quite as healthy is it? (Hey, I follow Dionysus and I don't like wine. What's a woman to do? :D)

[Nell]

Dionysus would probably approve of grapes or the juice thereof, and if you pretended it was wine it would probably have a similar effect :D

[[deleted user]]

:D:D

[Aaron, Moderator]

More chaos magic lol. Chamomile beer? Is there such a thing as fermented Chamomile? You could always try to make Cambuchia tea out of Chamomile. I used to make Cambuchia out of all sorts of herbal teas and they were quite tasty. They say you should only use black tea, or green tea, but as Barbarosa pointed out, I'm a chaos sort of person. I like to experiment.

[Aaron, Moderator]

And of course writing down the nightmares is a way of exorcising the inner demons. The mind will always resist this process, but it's the quickest way to shake off the heebie jeebies. The nightmare always seems worse when it's in your head, but as soon as you get it out, it loses power. I've read back, early in my dream journal, and thought to myself, "Huh? why was I even scared of that?"

[[deleted user]]

Hmm, not a herbal tea person. Even chamomile beer, however lovely the second sound, doesn't hold much promise. It's coffee, rainwater and beer for me and not much more. I tried the grape for the sake of my whole Dionysus/Pan thing but hey, I just don't like it. My husband does though, so I can do it vicariously. :D

So agree , Aaron, at expelling the inner demons (but only the nasty ones) through writing it down. Even remembering, and speaking it out aloud helps.

I'm slowly discovering what the snake skin dream meant. Nothing drastic, but good. Talking about getting a studio with a few other artists this year. Maybe a group show. I turned my back on exhibiting regularly. The art world felt too much like the Emperor's new clothes. But this would be more organic: five artists working in one space, in gorgeous Tasmanian wilderness. So I'm shedding skin again, and interested to see what eventuates.

P.S Also the demonic barbie doll nightmare has become incredibly clear--unfortunately. Damn nightmares that prove true! What do they think they are, messages from within?

[Nell]

If you have any chamomile flowers growing around about you could make a tincture and take 20 drops at bedtime.

Collect the flowerheads on a sunny day (fill a jar), and then cover with the strongest vodka you can find. Screw the lid on, leave 6 weeks and it's ready.

[[deleted user]]

Oh, with vodka-- that I can do. :) Alex is growing some chamomile for a customer. Will concoct your sleeping potion, Nell, and banish my nightmares in an enjoyable manner. :D:D

[Aaron, Moderator]

I should point out that Cabuchia is more like a cider than a tea. But if you don't like wine, you might not like the taste.

[Nell]

Georgina wrote: "Oh, with vodka-- that I can do. :) Alex is growing some chamomile for a customer. Will concoct your sleeping potion, Nell, and banish my nightmares in an enjoyable manner. :D:D"

Fingers crossed - let us know how you get on :)

[[deleted user]]

Thanks, Nell and Aaron! :):) (Don't mind cider, but in small quantities.)