The Gunslinger
discussion
Stephen King to edit The Dark Tower series? (Spoiler)
I think he should change the ending. I LOVED the series until the last few chapters, then I was like WTF? Poor Roland...give the poor guy some true closure. He worked so hard for it.
kings inclusion as a character was fascinating. it worked and failed utterly at the same time, same as the reliance on duex ex machina, both brilliant and frustrating. i don't know how much patience he thinks readers have, i certainly wouldn't read a "directors cut" version of the books, though i did with The Standas for the ending of the last book, it was annoyingly simple. after so much build up - SPOILERS - throwing some explosive tennis balls and climbing some stairs was a bit of a limp finale - SPILERS END
It seemed like after years (and years) of writing this series, he just said "FK it...I just want it to end". I was really disappointed after investing so much time.
I hope not. Leave it as is. Granted, I screamed at the very end, but that's King to me. He doesn't go for the "good feeling" all the time. I think when he writes and gets to a crucial moment, he thinks "how can I drive my readers nuts" and then he does with lines like "and that was the last time he saw her alive" you know, right when you thought he was going to get the girl...cough, cough, Bag of Bones, and of course the last line of the last Dark Tower book.....I almost pulled my hair out.I'd rather he rewrite as a continuation. There's no reason he couldn't do that.
Let's not forget The Regulators.
The series was a major disappointment overall, and there's no amount of re-writing that could fix it. Writing himself into the story was perhaps the most egotistical thing I've ever seen in a novel--it was a massive distraction, didn't work, and marked the low point of the series. I loved the first three books. But I don't think he ever had a sense of where it was going. The ending was pure juvenile crap. It's what a writer does when they don't have an answer. Granted, it's the same sort of ending he had at the end of The Stand (despite which, it remains his best work).
The series could have been something great. Instead, I think he just wanted it finished and rushed through the last three books. Now I think he's regretting not giving the series more time and effort.
Probably the biggest wasted opportunity of his career.
Pandora wrote: "I hope not. Leave it as is. Granted, I screamed at the very end, but that's King to me. He doesn't go for the "good feeling" all the time. I think when he writes and gets to a crucial moment, he th..."SPOILERS - now that idea i don't mind - another few books continuing roland finally getting it right
Nah, Uncle Steve...dont change a godamn thing. Dont get all George Lucas on us.
Agrimorfee wrote: "Nah, Uncle Steve...dont change a godamn thing. Dont get all George Lucas on us."EXACTLY!!!! LOL
Agrimorfee wrote: "Nah, Uncle Steve...dont change a godamn thing. Dont get all George Lucas on us."That's basically how I feel, lol. I feel like he's picking at it at this point, and we all know what happens when you keep picking at your work.
I loved the ending. It was a bit anticlimactic, yeah--I thought that fit, though. His real revelation was lost along the way; the Tower itself shouldn't have upstaged that. (Probably it would have been a little punchier if there hadn't been SO much in between him losing all of his ka-mates and actually getting to the Tower.)
I surely wouldn't mind another round of Detta Walker! However, as previously mentioned, I think the ending, while it made me want to scream and pull my hair out, made perfect sense. He could technically start again, but it should be a continuation not a rewrite. Eitherway, Mr. King, do not follow in the footsteps of Mr. Lucas.
A rewrite would be bad! I like it the way it is. The ending worked fine for me, it brought it back around, yet left me still wondering.. what difference would a horn make?
As for Mr Kings' appearance.. I found it a little cheesy, and yet at the same time, perfectly logical.
Stewart wrote: "This sort of knee-jerk reaction to the ending of the Dark Tower sequence actually annoys me. Although it's probably just down to the fact that the negative responses are the most vocal. Worse is pe..."I totally agree and am glad someone else said it. The ending was pitch perfect. King's appearance was meta-wonderful. What King should do, is pick up from the ending with Roland restarting his journey. Then, if he wants to leave himself out of the story, that's perfectly acceptable. Imagine Dickens saying, "Eh, I thought Tiny Tim was a distracting addition, so I'll just edit him out."
The Dark Tower series is by far one of my favorite series to date. Each individual book is good but I will concede that there are some major flaws in the series as a whole. I've always been torn over how I felt with King's inclusion of himself in the series. I wish Mordred had been developed a bit better and the Crimson King as a whole given more screen time. And I absolutely loath the fact that RF went out like a chump.But I loved the ending. For me I don't think I would've been happy if Roland had gotten to the top and found anything else. Maybe Roland is in his own Hell. Hell is repetition after all.
I enjoyed the ending as well and didn't mind King being a character in the book. I did think there would be a bigger battle with the Crimson King, but that's okay. Rather than rewrite it I'd be happy with more stories set in the that world. I wouldn't even mind if they didn't have Roland in them. I loved the Wind Through the Keyhole story within that novel. Give us more.
i liked the first three books better i got bored halfway through the fourth then really didnt pay much attention
I agree with Errick. The first three books were the best. However, I do think the ending to the series as a whole, was the right ending (and I'm one of those folks who's complained more than once about King's endings in the past). That's not to say that books four through seven didn't have lots of issues in them. Four annoyed me because it was just one long flashback. Five was eaten up by ANOTHER flashback tale. Book Seven even included YET ANOTHER flashback story. If he were to get rid of anything, I'd vote for ditching all of the "Let's sit around and just let this oddball dude ramble about his past for a couple hundred pages."As for King wanting to go back and edit those stories, I'm not sure I begrudge that urge. As a writer, I can totally appreciate that. Not saying I think he should, but it's HIS STORY. He has that right. A writer owns the story--not the readers/fans.
Stephen King baffles me sometimes. My first thought is the same reaction I had when I discovered his fictional self in the books: WHY!!! First off, I love this series (warts and all), but I hated the fact that he put himself into the storyline. When he encountered his own characters in his own book, I wanted to throw the real book in real King's real face! I would be delighted to see him taken out except that at this point it just seems kind of exhausting to read another draft. How often has this happened with any author anyway? Who ever publishes two drafts (besides longer "unedited" versions)? I want to ask him why he wouldn't just bite the bullet and say something to the effect of, "Well yea I kind of regret putting myself into the novel, but what's done is done." It's almost as if removing himself retroactively is just as conceited and dismissive of the rest of the text as putting himself there in the first place.Ugh.
I like that he could be gone from the story, but after it already being published as it has... I don't know. If he's gonna keep revising this thing every time he has a new thought on it, then I quit.
I loved the final 3 books as much as the rest of the series, and I didn't think SK writing himself into the story was a bad thing at all. He wasn't exactly complimentary of the person he was at that time anyway - so I don't think egotistical covers it.I think there's room to fill in more gaps - and even to tell the continuing story of Eddie and Susannah and their work for the Tet Corporation, which could easily swing back round into Roland's world, potentially even helping to rescue him from the hell of repetition.
But the ending was perfect. With everything leading up to that point, it was the only possible ending that could have made sense.
Don wrote: "3/4s through the last bookwe were warned by the author
dont contiue reading
youll only be dissapointed"
I should have listened! LOL I screamed at the very end!
I actually loved the ending to the series. The lowest point for me was Wizard and Glass, which brought the forward momentum of the series to a halting screech. However, critics seem to think it's the best one, so maybe I need to re-read it and give it another chance, but I probably won't.
As for editing the series... why? To what end? To tighten up the nuts and bolts? I couldn't care less. I probably won't end up re-reading the entire series ever again - as there are just too many other books out there in the world. Who has the time to re-read something?
As for editing the series... why? To what end? To tighten up the nuts and bolts? I couldn't care less. I probably won't end up re-reading the entire series ever again - as there are just too many other books out there in the world. Who has the time to re-read something?
Don wrote: "3/4s through the last book
we were warned by the author
dont contiue reading
youll only be dissapointed"
That only made me love the ending more in that King understands his readers better than we think he does.
we were warned by the author
dont contiue reading
youll only be dissapointed"
That only made me love the ending more in that King understands his readers better than we think he does.
I can't help but notice how many people seem to hate the conclusion of the Dark Tower Series. I, personally, thought it was brilliant. Upon first read it was a bit shocking, and I wasn't sure how I liked it. But if you give yourself some time to process it, and think through all of the intricate details it calls forward, you start to see what a satisfying conclusion it is. I don't think it was a copout on King's part, a way to kick the book out and finish the series. The conclusion brings so many things into perspective; far too many to list. It's clear that the ending was well thought out. Very emotional and deep.As for a rewrite of the series . . . Why?? I think it should just be left as it is. Obviously there are things that could be made better, but I won't be rereading the whole series to see what King would change.
I do not casually take the stance that Stephen King is bad at endings. I don't think anyone takes that stance casually. I take that stance after reading his books, and finding the endings to be less than satisfactory. His books are great, they can keep me reading hours after I should be asleep. But too often, the ending just fizzles out. That being said, I found the ending of the Dark Tower series to be satisfactory, it was at least an ending. I had been worried that after putting in all this time, that the ending would fizzle out, but in my opinion, it didn't. Maybe it wasn't the ending I would have wished for, but it was an ending.
Robert wrote: "I do not casually take the stance that Stephen King is bad at endings. I don't think anyone takes that stance casually. I take that stance after reading his books, and finding the endings to be les..."I completely agree with this, Robert. So many times Stephen King's conclusions are less than satisfactory for me. There are a few exceptions, but needless to say, I was worried that the conclusion of the Dark Tower Series would be another one of these disappointments. After seven books and so many hours reading I wondered how ANY ending could possibly be satisfactory. But I was pleasantly surprised. Actually, in my opinion, it's the best Stephen King ending i've read so far.
SPOILERS AHEAD: My interpretation of the end of The Dark Tower differs from canon, but it satisfies me: Roland and the ka-tet have defeated the Red King's forces in one set of worlds, but as Jake said, 'there are other worlds than these', so he must pass through the door into another world to continue the fight.. I could write a whole article on this interpretation (and should), but anyway, if King were to write a 'second draft' of The Dark Tower, the many-worlds interpretation would be a good way to square it with the originals. I'd read it, too.by the way, this thread probably should have been filed under The Dark Tower, since it relates to the whole series.
I liked the ending. I thought it was different and I didn't see it coming. I thought books one through four were incredible, while five and six were dull and boring, particularly six. Seven was okay, though a bit random. The end battle was lame but once Roland got into the tower ... I liked that. I thought it was very clever and actually impressed me that King had the nerve to do it.
NibbledToDeathByCats wrote: "SPOILERS AHEAD: My interpretation of the end of The Dark Tower differs from canon, but it satisfies me: Roland and the ka-tet have defeated the Red King's forces in one set of worlds, but as Jake s..."
I don't see how this interpretation doesn't fit with the end of the series. Roland goes into the Dark Tower and comes out with a variation of the world we've seen before. The implication is that this is not the first time that Roland has reached the Dark Tower. Therefore there are multiple worlds. My conclusion? Your relativist interpretation fits with the conclusion of the canon.
I don't see how this interpretation doesn't fit with the end of the series. Roland goes into the Dark Tower and comes out with a variation of the world we've seen before. The implication is that this is not the first time that Roland has reached the Dark Tower. Therefore there are multiple worlds. My conclusion? Your relativist interpretation fits with the conclusion of the canon.
macgregor wrote: "I don't see how this interpretation doesn't fit with the end of the series. Roland goes into the Dark Tower and comes out with a variation of the world we've seen before. The implication is that this is not the first time that Roland has reached the Dark Tower. Therefore there are multiple worlds. My conclusion? Your relativist interpretation fits with the conclusion of the canon."The official interpretation, found in the concordance (so I hear) has to do with Roland going around and around in his journey to become a more compassionate person. The fact that he had the horn after going through the door is supposed to indicate that. I find that interpretation unsatisfying, as well as the amnesia that accompanies it. If SK cared what improvements I thought could be made on TDT, getting rid of various characters' sudden amnesia would be near the top of the list.
NibbledToDeathByCats wrote: "macgregor wrote: "I don't see how this interpretation doesn't fit with the end of the series. Roland goes into the Dark Tower and comes out with a variation of the world we've seen before. The impl..."
As much as the condordance is "official" it's also written by fans, not the author.
As much as the condordance is "official" it's also written by fans, not the author.
When I first read the ending, I wanted to throw the book at the wall. However when I had time to reflect, I actually thought the ending was perfect. Roland's quest was to find the Dark Tower. So he finds it and then what...??? Does the world suddenly become perfect? Does the world suddenly end? If it becomes perfect, then it ceases to exist as a place of learning and becomes akin to heaven/nirvana, etc. The same is true if it ends...there is no further opportunity to learn. I think that Roland's quest can be compared to Sisyphus who kept rolling the stone up the hill only to have it roll back down again. He is sentenced to keep trying to get it right. The only way he ever gets to end the endless journey is if he gets everything right along the way.
As a writer, I thought adding himself in the story was brilliant! I know how I would feel/react if one of my characters showed up at my door...and it would not be pretty!
NibbledToDeathByCats wrote: "SPOILERS AHEAD: My interpretation of the end of The Dark Tower differs from canon, but it satisfies me: Roland and the ka-tet have defeated the Red King's forces in one set of worlds, but as Jake s..."I've had that very same discussion with some friends who thought I was a bit off. Glad to see I wasn't the only one who thought of this.
It's perfect. Leave it.
i actually liked the very end of the last book, but everything after wizard and glass up to it was tripe.
I loved the first 4 books--wonderful characters! King gives his characters terrible adversities to endure-- just as Aristotle instructed writers and dramatists to do! King provides each member of the ka-tet with well-fleshed out backgrounds. I liked the whole Blaine the Mono sequence with the riddles, and I LOVED the Susan Delgado story! I decided to skip books 5 and 6 because I did NOT like the idea that the Author inserted himself into the narrative! So I quickly read the plot summaries (so silly and convoluted) and went immediately to Book VII which I just started yesterday.
***spoilers ahead*****I did think it was a bit self-serving to stick himself in the books but at least the whole "i'm not gan" thing happened. The ending to me was greatly foreshadowed from the first book, that ka is a wheel, you can't escape it, the reach is eternal. So it wasn't surprising at all, a little disappointing, yes, but still one of many expected outcomes. I think it showed that the quest for the tower and the repetition (and even the journey for our ka-tet) was almost more of a purgatory for them. They had to earn their redemption to escape the wheel of ka and be able to move on. Roland, who caused and allowed the deaths of so many, failed in his quest for paradise (or at least escape) and is doomed until he earns it.
oh... and the 19 will now be 20. i think 19 was the number of times he'd been through this and now they'll see 20 everywhere.
spoilers ahead. oy, this topic should really be filed under book 7 instead of book 1.Charles wrote: "I think it showed that the quest for the tower and the repetition (and even the journey for our ka-tet) was almost more of a purgatory for them. They had to earn their redemption to escape the wheel of ka and be able to move on. Roland, who caused and allowed the deaths of so many, failed in his quest for paradise (or at least escape) and is doomed until he earns it."
This is the interpretation that I am not a fan of. Remember Roland wakes up in the desert near Tull, with the horn; he didn't have to relive his earlier years and make a hard choice to keep the horn; it was just a freebie, so I interpret it as random permutation among the worlds of the tower, not evidence of Roland's personal moral growth. It is also undermines, and is unfair to, the whole slew of supporting characters who, by this interpretation, are basically living, and living again, just for sake of Roland's moral edification. Isn't the conflict between White and Red real? Or conversely, that everything happened was just an illusion and none of the people or places were real in the own right. I am not a fan of subjectivism. I know that I am in possible disagreement with the author and the Concordance (haven't read it), but I find it a far more satisfying interpretation that the worlds of the tower have an objective reality to them, and that the cycle simply continues — Roland defeated the forces of the Red in one set of worlds, but there are other worlds, and he must now go continue the fight in the next set.
I think he will continue to move through different worlds until he has finally reached his redemption. I agree with Charles on that point.
That is the authoritative ending, but is it satisfying? The point about redemption seemed to be tacked onto the end of the series without reference to anything that went before. I felt that it undermined the foregoing story, and with amnesia thrown into the mix, as tidily as "and he woke up, and it was all a dream."
I heard they are making a movie on the first story but, am not sure how accurate that is.
Charles wrote: "oh... and the 19 will now be 20. i think 19 was the number of times he'd been through this and now they'll see 20 everywhere."love it, had never thought of 19 that way.
i liked jk rowling using 19 at the end of potter
Whether or not he does the re-write well, I'll read it. ...he'd better not screw with Eddie though.
At first I thought the ending really blew, only because I thought it just stopped. However, as I thought about it more (and I gave it a lot of thought, because I loved the entire series), I explored the possibility of that ending. It could leave room for another book. But what really got me was the idea that maybe that whole series of books had already happened before (if that makes sense.) I have never read such a circular ending in a story. In that way, it made the ending pretty cool and allowed me to not be disappointed in the ending. I am a big fan of King, although his novels all rate differently on a scale of 1-10 (for me.) Sometimes I think the endings such, like in Dreamcatcher, sometimes the book is just truly disturbing, like in Gerald's Game. However, one of my favorite things about King is that all the stories are linked, and The fantastic part about the Dark Tower Series was that you could pick out pieces of other novels in that series. It makes the reader feel like they have some sort of special, inside knowledge. For those King fans out there, I highly recommend The Talisman and follow with The Black House. Along with The Dark Tower Series, Insomnia (which is a must read if you haven't already), and The Shining, The Talisman and The Black House are my most favorite King books.
As for a rewrite, I don't think the series needs it, however, I most certainly will read it because I read everything King writes.
Jennifer wrote: "I loved the first 4 books--wonderful characters! King gives his characters terrible adversities to endure-- just as Aristotle instructed writers and dramatists to do! King provides each member of t..."I'm back again. I decided to read Wolves of the Calla and I LOVE it! Only on page 300, and I already regret having skipped over it (and vol. 6) and going straight ahead to the last volume. No harm done, though, as I don't mind reading the final volume again as it was fabulous and those references to vols 5 and 6 will be clear and the ending was perfect!!! Also read the Wind Through the Keyhole and loved it--young Tim and his adventures in the scary forest was a wonderful fairy tale in the old tradition (Hansel and Gretel, etc.)-- a most welcome addition to the series! Really sorry I said those negative things after reading only plot summaries! I am now starting to collect the Marvel graphic novels of the Dark Tower as well--love the artwork!
I have read the whole Dark Tower series and loved them.I just have about all of the graphic novels. I think I need the last two or just the last one. Not sure since I have over 2500 books and sometimes its hard to keep up with all of them.
I agree with Erick that this was "Probably the biggest wasted opportunity of his career." Although I liked the series as a whole, & it remains one of my favorites, nothing has lived up to the absolute magic of the first three. Perhaps he waited too long between 3 & 4 to keep the magic going. Going back won't revive it.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
What do you guys think about this? Taking himself out would create some very major changes--I wonder what other changes he plans to make.