The Sword and Laser discussion
Books that Require Dictionaries to Read
date
newest »
newest »
A Thesaurus, so many complicated words in there....Anyway, I haven't read said book by Peter Orullian so I can't comment on his language (though avuncular isn't that strange, just a little archaic and extravagant perhaps :P).
The classics tend to have this sort of thing, being an English Lit student I have to deal with that quite a lot. Luckily we have Google now!
As for sci-fi/fantasy. I'd say Tolkien uses a lot of big words, and its not just unusual words but its combined with mass piles of info dump too, making it harder to read. :P
Aldous Huxley needed a slap and an editor too.
I couldn't find all of the random words he used and yes avuncular is pretty tame. I'm still flipping through my kindle to find a few more examples.
It's for this that I'm glad for built-in dictionaries in the Kindle.
I thought this would be about Hyperion...
I really like to learn new words. I'm a word geek I suppose. So I like books that make introduce me to new words. I therefore like books that require the use of a dictionary.
I keep a little notebook with me now for when I run across interesting words. Sometimes I know what they mean, sometimes I'm pretty sure I know what they mean, and sometimes I have no idea what they mean. I write them in the book with a pretty fountain pen with pretty ink, I look them up, then once in awhile I go over the words again.Sometimes if there's too many unusual/rare words, it puts a hiccup into the flow.
Bloviate is one of my favourite words to run across. No one ever uses it in normal speech, at least, I've never heard anyone say it and it's such a funny sounding word, but ye gods is there a ton of novels that make use of it.It depends on whether the language is appropriate to the story, I guess. You wouldn't have a modern day teenager say something like 'avuncular' because it's unrealistic in most cases. It tends to bother me when I feel that words like that were thrown in just to make the author seem more intelligent. I frown upon excess word usage in general, especially in novels that deal with contemporary issues.
Fantasy novels are a little easier to bear, because the world is generally set in a pseudo-historical period so it makes sense. But archaic and/or strange unused words for the sake of words just annoy me.
I love finding new words, but I'll read a thesaurus if I want to, thanks very much. Having to look into one while reading breaks the flow of the story. (Not to mention it reminds me of the exercises we did in the first year and a half of university - each semester we had to find a book that contained as many new words as possible and then transcribe all of them in a notebook with meanings and uses. Then learn them all by heart. The Blind Assassin was stripped of its loveliness when I had to go for the thesaurus for every word my professor was likely to ask me about.)
I LOVE to read books that have word in them that I am unfamiliar with. For me, reading is about much more than just being entertained; it is also about learning. Reading is the primary way we expand our vocabulary as children, and as far as I am concerned there is no reason for that not to continue as adults. Besides, it is usually fairly simple to approximate the meaning of a new word from its context, or if the new word refers to something that is actually a part of the story (think hard science fiction and all the fun technical terms), the author usually explains the meaning.
I've been reading Peter F. Hamilton´s "Night's Dawn" trilogy and he uses some scientific terms that are kind of hard to understand 100% what they mean but I still get the general picture, so I move on. I usually just go for the dictionary, when it's a word that keeps appearing and I can't understand the meaning within the context.André
Being a non-native English speaker I'm glad about the built-in dictionary on my eBook reader. But it's the classics that have me use it more often, Sherlock Holmes is a good example. I can't remember a recent book that had a lot of words I didn't understand from context.
Meeting words you don't know always slow you down, but sometimes, when it adds to the feel of the book and the setting, I love having the language making me aware of itself. In my native language I always enjoy seeing the language being used to the fullest (unless it's too forced).
In English I appreciate it a lot more after having bought an eReader. Now I actually look up all the words I don't know, and it really helps setting the atmosphere, especially in fantasy (getting to know that a word is medieval English, for example).
As someone for whom English is a second language (well third really, but my French has atrophied from disuse over the past years.) I imagine that I run into this more than native speakers. Usually it's limited to a couple of words per novel though. The most notable exception is The Darkness That Comes Before. I read that literally with a dictionary next to me. I haven't finished it actually, though I still intend to. Trying to get through all the philosophical concepts Bakker throws around, when you only understand half the words he uses makes for slow reading. I still suggest it to everyone who likes dark epic fantasy with a bit of meat on the bones though.
One thing I have noticed here so far: no one is really answering the question of how these words effect the flow of the story.
I did mention it, if you'd care to look at my post. Having to look into a thesaurus every few minutes or even only every few pages breaks up the flow of the story. It takes me out of the adventure of the book and I find it unnecessary and tiring.
I wasn't about to go through and list who answered it exactly and who didn't I was just saying that some people hadn't. It was not meant to be an attack on anyone but merely an observation. thank you Agatha for answering the question tho!
I didn't mean you should've read all the posts, god knows I don't always read every single post. I was just pointing out that it's there. :)
Infinite Jest is definitely a book where I needed a dictionary. I was really glad to read it on the Kindle with the built-in dictionary.Infinite Jest is a rather disjointed book in the first place, so I didn't think it disrupted the flow too much to look up words. I think it may have disrupted the flow if I had actually had to go to a dictionary, instead of reading it in-line on the Kindle. The act of putting one book down and picking up another might have been more jarring...or it may have made me not pick up Infinite Jest again, especially in the beginning when I was still trying to get into the book.
More generally, I think it really depends on the book itself as to if it will interrupt the flow of the story. I've read plenty of books where I haven't known a word but was able to get it from context (and would look the word up later to confirm the meaning). In those situations, it barely interrupts the flow, if at all. I've also had situations where the complete opposite is true, where words can't be determined from context and it becomes frustrating.
A Clockwork Orange uses a lot of made up words. When I read it years ago, I thought it broke up the flow as I kept going back to figure out all the words.
Tom wrote: "A Clockwork Orange uses a lot of made up words. When I read it years ago, I thought it broke up the flow as I kept going back to figure out all the words."I was going to make another topic on just that. The Unremembered has a lot of made up words like Anias (which the kindle dictionary says is Anal) but seems to be some kind of honourific to a woman (Anias Wendra). I think it would be nice if authors make up words that they should provide a glossary at the end!
Most of the time I'm doing that on the older books I download for my Kindle app. By old I'm talking about written in the Dracula Invisible Man time period. They used a lot of words I wasn't familiar with back then, not to mention certain words I do know apparently had a different meaning back then I wasn't aware of.
Gene Wolfe's The Shadow of the Torturer had a lot of words that I thought were made up but turned out to be archaic. I still remember fuligin (really really black). Oh, someone's put together a list of his words.I ususally don't mind unknown words, I figure that eventually they will make sense. I rarely look them up.
China Mieville's books use quite challenging diction. Gotta use those context clues!
gah people need to read more than just the title :( I don't mind big words and I am able to figure out the meaning of most words through context, I am asking if you think if they negatively impact the flow of the story.
I barely read the first paragraph of emails.
Kp wrote: "gah people need to read more than just the title :( I don't mind big words and I am able to figure out the meaning of most words through context, I am asking if you think if they negatively impact..."
No, they do not. Sometimes slang words can take away from the story though. Weird how a difficult word doesn't but slang does... If I remember correctly,
The Court of the Air had quite a bit of slang in it.
Tyler wrote: Sometimes slang words can take away from the story thoughA lot of people also complain about our curse words in fantasy breaking up the authenticity of the genre. I disagree with this mainly because I laugh at some characters curses because they sound so rediculous.
Kp wrote: "gah people need to read more than just the title :( I don't mind big words and I am able to figure out the meaning of most words through context, I am asking if you think if they negatively impact..."
I guess it depends really on the story it's self and the amount of times it happens. I know for me personally if I have to constantly look and see what something is I'm probably going to start to not enjoy the book so much.
Something that annoys me is when a story is set in the past and the author uses modern slang for things, it can make it stand out like a sore thumb (Off topic but I felt the need to share)
I generally pick up the meanings from context. I rarely have to look things up but I did have a teacher who liked to assign copying pages out of the dictionary when the class got into to trouble. I wrote really slowly so it would take me forever.
Curt wrote: "I generally pick up the meanings from context. I rarely have to look things up. I did have a teacher who liked to assign copying pages out of the dictionary when the class got into to trouble. ..."
I was going to read this whole thread, but decided to lem it.
Stan wrote: "I was going to read this whole thread, but decided to lem it."Then why bother commenting? :D
I have quite an extensive vocabulary so rarely encounter words in my mother-tongue (English) that I don't understand. Most of the time if the book is well written and the word isn't included for pretentious purposes I can understand from the context and then I will double check with a dictionary once I reached an appropriate place to take a break.I love when the author uses words that are within my vocabulary but not in common usage and a few new words are great but frequently such words are misused or used with an anachronistic definition (archaic usage in modern dialogue or vice-versa)
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
The Court of the Air (other topics)The Shadow of the Torturer (other topics)
The Unremembered (other topics)
Infinite Jest (other topics)
The Darkness That Comes Before (other topics)
More...
Do people find that the flow of the story tends to be stalled when they run across a word they do not know? I have found that it stalls more for me in felled-tree editions when compared to my kindle app (click the word and you have a definition). Or do you like to read books with words you have never heard before?
Edit: I have always found that these big words are used in place of a smaller word that would have explained the authors idea just as well/if not better. I don't mind reading new words but most books that require dictionaries to read and understand tend to feel like the author is saying "look how smart i am!"