The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo
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Is it weird that I don't really like Mikael?
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He is a middle aged playboy who thinks he is greater than everyone else around him. He has no redeeming qualities.
Agreed. I did not like him much and the fact that he was sleeping with multiple women annoyed me, too. I didn't hate him, though.
I'm not sure we understand the culture in Sweden. But that being said, I think Lisbeth trusts him, because he never betrays her.
You didn+t liked him? Well, you are bound not to like every singe person you meet, in real life, yes?I don´t think that he is all that bland or vanilla - he is just a guy that is right where he wants to be, living the life the way he wants - he is at peace with himself and others - and that i can´t help but admire; i don´t have to condone, aprove or disaprove: if the people envolved are fine and he is not offendingno one, why should he stop sleeping with other people, if they are ok with it? This has a lot to do with the swedish way of life/thinking.
And Judy,that is spot on: she trustshim because he does not betray her - he treats her like any other person in his life: with respect, keeping her secrets a secret and not imposing on her, in any way.
I see it differently. I think Blomkvist takes advantage of everyone around him. I have met Swedes before in the real world and yes they do love to spread their seed with as many people as possible, however, Blomkvist doesn't seem happy and at peace with himself in this book. To me his whole life spells "turmoil" and his over sexed libido just goes to show you he is trying to escape his own problems: failed marriage, poor relationship with his daughter, failing business, legal issues, prison.... all these just fuels the fire that he can screw around all he wants with no concern for the well-being of his partners mentality. Let's not forget that with him sleeping with Lisbeth we was sleeping with a mentally challenged person. This guy is not on despicible but also plain gross.
Maria wrote: "You didn+t liked him? Well, you are bound not to like every singe person you meet, in real life, yes?I don´t think that he is all that bland or vanilla - he is just a guy that is right where he w..."
I know that I'm not going to like every person, whether they're real or fictional, but I just felt somewhat surprised because it seemed like Blomkvist was a character that I was "supposed to" like, you know what I mean? While I can't provide anything specific from the book that shows this, that's still the impression I got from it.
And thank you for the insight in the Swedish mentality in terms of his multiple relationships, since I felt kind of baffled that everyone in the book was so okay with all that business!
Yeah I'm with you Emily. Blomkvist is one of the two main characters and I couldn't stand him. Lisbeth I found intriguing but in the end I found myself not liking her either. I was actually cheering for one of the two to get killed off with a preference towards Blomkvist, but I knew it wasn't going to happen since I read the flyer on the third book to know both of these bozos appear in all three books... oh the second book doesn't get any better. The action scenes are incredible but the characters are not likeable.
you realize that it wasn't his wife and lover right...that is was his common law wife and his family (i.e. his father and brother)...they were never registered as being together in Sweden as required by law because he was scared of her being targeted and he never kept a will - so everything went to his family, not to her
Dale wrote: "Yeah I'm with you Emily. Blomkvist is one of the two main characters and I couldn't stand him. Lisbeth I found intriguing but in the end I found myself not liking her either. I was actually cheerin..."Why did you stop liking Lisbeth?
I think the reason Lisbeth trusts Blomkvist so much is that he doesn't judge her, he also respects her skills and intellect. She also trusts her first guardian (can't remember his name) both of these men (probably the only in her life) treated her like a worthwhile soul. Not to be justifying Blomkvists behavior but the women that he was sleeping with all initiated sex. The women in these books are strong and aggressive.
I stopped liking Lisbeth right around the time she also turned into a sexual deviant in her own way. It seems to get lost because she was intelligent, sneaky, a computer hacker, had a photographic memory that she also had severe mental illness. Seriously she shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets.
Dale wrote: "I stopped liking Lisbeth right around the time she also turned into a sexual deviant in her own way. It seems to get lost because she was intelligent, sneaky, a computer hacker, had a photographic ..."I think the main point of the books was that Lisbeth DID NOT have a severe mental illness, she was alleged to have one to justify the appalling abuse she suffered! Psychological issues maybe, but not severe mental illness and I really don't understand you calling her a sexual deviant?
I really disliked Blomkvist's bedhopping too, and the way the women he slept with were portrayed. I think he was more damaged than Lisbeth. My theory is that Larrson may have, consciously or not, based the character on himself, and in every man's fantasy they are irresistible to women. Let me add I know very little about Larrson, that was just what I thought. It's a real pity that Stieg Larrson died before he could explore both characters more.
And @Emily, I don't know about Swedish mentality but don't forget the book was written by a man...
I think the mistake people make is to try and psychoanalyze characters in a book,hardly possible when they are just that, characters and therefore obviously lacking in dimension.
Danielle wrote: And @Emily, I don't know about Swedish mentality but don't forget the book was written by a man... I think the mistake people make is to try and psychoanalyze characters in a book,hardly possible when they are just that, characters and therefore obviously lacking in dimension. I agree, Danielle. How can you enjoy a story when you over analyze everything. I think it's a delightful story, filled with all the good things like mystery, intrigue, terror...yeah!
I agree with your views on why Lisbeth trusts Blomkvist. What annoys me about Blomkvist is that his relationships come so easy to him. He's just this very charismatic person, who can get any woman he wants - and he's intelligent, honest and respectful towards the women as well. I mean, come on!
What annoys me most is that he doesn't learn anything in trilogy; he doesn't develop as a person.
Being Scandinavian, though not Swedish, I have to comment on the thoughts about the 'swedish mentality'. I don't think the Swedes are any more non-monogamous than other people - portraying Blomkvist with these sexual relationships is a part of displaying him as thinking differently - thinking outside the box, just like Lisbeth.
I liked the book for not condemning it. As said earlier in this thread; these are strong female characters. The problem was that he got married in the first place, when he can't fit into the 'normal' way of living.
But that's him. It's NOT Swedish culture in particular. I do think Larsson wanted to open up his readers closed-off way of thinking, but maybe that's just me reading into the book what I want to see.
I don't think it's weird not liking him, though. I wouldn't have minded if he died. Lisbeth really is the interesting character in these books, and he's so oblivious to her feelings for quite a big part of the rest of the series.
Dale wrote: "I stopped liking Lisbeth right around the time she also turned into a sexual deviant in her own way. It seems to get lost because she was intelligent, sneaky, a computer hacker, had a photographic ..."I don't agree that she should not be walking the streets. She is a loner and a Robin Hood of sorts, but not dangerous. I do think that some of the sex scenes were unnecessary. They didn't add much to the story and some of the scenes with Miriam(?) seemed a tad bit out of character. There was a playfulness there that just didn't seem Lisbeth-like.
Dale wrote: "I stopped liking Lisbeth right around the time she also turned into a sexual deviant in her own way. It seems to get lost because she was intelligent, sneaky, a computer hacker, had a photographic ..."What was the part of Lisbeth having Aspergers that you didn´t get? It was not spelled as such in the book but the behaviour was so obvious that even a blind-man could see it, but i guess the worst blind is the one who does not want to see...
Anyone, experiencing all of the terrible things that happened in her life is bound to be scarred, psychologically, so, for her to be a loner, an outsider, trusting no one do fit the profile; and most of all - having a guardian, because she could not fight the sistem as no one listened to her, made her feel suspitious of anyone and everyone - wouldn´t you, if you were her?
And what is sex deviant, to you? To me, it would be for her to have sex with animals or the like - beying bissexual is not deviant, but i can be talking to a prude..... not my kind of deal, there were a tad too many cenes with her and Miriam to ilustrate that, but, nothing too shocking, in my view - i am not one of those easily shocked with something as normal as sex, between 2 consenting adults.
Now, Mickael....once again, i find that there are people who condemn other people´s behaviour simply because they envy it: he is charming, witty, relationships come easy to him, because, quite frankly, he is what most women want, in terms of men material. I don´t think he is messed up, at all - the book start with him on the verge of bankrupcy, facing a trial that will lead him to jail, but i never saw any thing out of his "normal" behaviour since, when all ended well, he continued his journey of bedhopping with strong, powerfull and very assertive females, that knew exactly what they wanted out of him, as well as he knew exactly what he wanted out of them. And there is nothing embarassing, shocking or disloyal. sure, his 1st marriage ended - because he married as a rebound for erica getting married, also and in the end they could not stay appart from each other, the difference beying that her husband was ok with that and his wife wasn´t. didn´t saw any breakage of relationship with his daughter,either.
Dale wrote: "Let's not forget that with him sleeping with Lisbeth we was sleeping with a mentally challenged person. "I know right? I mean she has those tattoos, dresses weird, I think she does drugs, and let's not forget that she was into prostitution. Someone like that needs to be protected from Swedes like Blomkvist. Probably there should be some mechanism for the government to take care of that.
Jeff wrote: I know right? I mean she has those tattoos, dresses weird, I think she does ..."Bahahaha
Jeff wrote: I know right? I mean she has those tattoos, dresses weird, I think she does ..."That made my day.
I think that saying Lisbeth shouldn't be walking the streets is extreme. Like Maria said, she had so many horrifying things done to her, it's ridiculous to think that those events wouldn't have an effect on her. And for the record, Lisbeth never ever attacked anyone that did not first hurt her and/or commit heinous crimes (mostly against other women), and whether or not that justifies her actions is your opinion, but I would say this makes her pretty harmless to the general public, and fully able to walk the streets.
I must say that Lisbeth is one of my favorite characters ever. She is one tough and smart girl. She has been through so much that you feel protective of her. The people who should not have been out and about in society were all those that inflicted harm upon Lisbeth. So if the girl had to dole out a little street justice, then hooray for her. It may not have been right of me, but I cheered when she gave the infamous tattoo to Bjurman.
Licha wrote: "I must say that Lisbeth is one of my favorite characters ever. She is one tough and smart girl. She has been through so much that you feel protective of her. The people who should not have been ..."To me, the best against Bjurman was the anal tampon - now, that, was a right payback for him and all the dirty deals and coersion against her
That was classic revenge yes and kudos for her for being a tough gal, but even with that said, she has mental issues and is clearly autistic or some other form of mental illness. Blomvist still nailed her in the bed, so again what redeeming attribute is there to pin on this guy?
I think their culture is totally different than ours. They seem to do everything in excess, from coffee drinking to sex with different, random people. I liked his character but thought he was a bit of a womanizer.
I think he falls into the same category as the other men who misused this woman. If she has any mental problems, notice that it has primarily revolved around the mistreatment she has received from a variety of men.
Dale wrote: "That was classic revenge yes and kudos for her for being a tough gal, but even with that said, she has mental issues and is clearly autistic or some other form of mental illness. Blomvist still nai..."There is a difference between having mental issues and being an autistic /Aspergers carrier and i think you are confusing it either by ignorance or on pourpose.
Having Aspergers or another form of autist, and for this matter this is a modified autism, it just something that affects the chemistry of the brain: normally some risperidone will get the job donne and the person can function and be valuable, have a normal, healthy and productive life - i know of many cases like that.
Mental ilness is schyzofrenia, it´s bi-polar disease etc which are individuals who cannot functions or either integrate society becausr they pose danger to others and themselves and they cannot function, at all.
To me, she inserts herself in Aspergers, with lack of early intervention in her childhood years that lead her to this kind of solitude, not mental ilness.
I hear you and I respectfully disagree with you Maria. Aspergers, yes is a form of autism, that is not where we disagree. Mental illness in my interpretation at least would be defined as: a holistic view of a human whereas there is a malfunction in the functionality of the brain in which it does not perform or interpret as expected. So you can see why I feel that all forms of autism are a form of mental illness. Mental Illness doesn't mean a person can't go on to lead a normal life mind you. Ted Turner suffers with mental illness and that is by his own admission. Dyslexia is a form of mental illness, one of the many mental health issues that I myself struggle with.I suspect we all have a mental illness or some sort, however, Lisbeth is neither properly diagnosed nor properly treated which leads to her own dysfunction in social settings.
Dale wrote: "I hear you and I respectfully disagree with you Maria. Aspergers, yes is a form of autism, that is not where we disagree. Mental illness in my interpretation at least would be defined as: a holisti..."Dyslexia is NOT a mental illness, nor is Aspergers Syndrome. Dale, your ignorance and prejudices are, quite frankly, astounding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperge...
Yes, bi-polar disorder, which Ted Turner, Sean Penn and a multitude of others suffer from IS a form of mental illness, as is depression, anxiety and dozens of other things, but Aspergers and dyslexia are totally different and are not classified as mental illness in any way.
my opinion. doesn't that represent anything? read my definition and to me it doesn't matter what you think or wikipedia. something in my mind doesn't work right... that is a mental illness to me. You are free to think and believe what you want to Danielle as am I. I think the real problem is that you have a negative thought towards mental illness whereas I believe we all have them just not all of us are identified, categorized, labeled, medicated. Not saying we should all be medicated either though that is tempting. What I am saying is that we all have mental challenges... Lisbeth's should have been obvious to blomvist but apparently his own mental challenges led him to strike a horizontal pose with her.
Dale wrote: "my opinion. doesn't that represent anything? read my definition and to me it doesn't matter what you think or wikipedia. something in my mind doesn't work right... that is a mental illness to me. Y..."I do not have a negative thought, or more correctly, attitude to mental illness, on the contrary I have quite a lot of personal experience with several forms of properly classified mental illness, and dyslexia. What I took exception to was your uniformed assertion that autism or dyslexia were a form of mental illness, which they clearly are not. You are entitled to your opinion, but I wished to make clear that your opinion was medically and psychologically uninformed. Both autism and dyslexia are not classified as mental illness.
(an aside-it seems you are of the school that believes in pharmaceutical intervention, a little research in that area may make you realise that the pharmaceutical makers are not interested in "cures or treatments" they are interested in profits, and love no one more than the person who believes they need to take medication every day for the rest of their lives, for obvious reasons)
Danielle, I appreciate your defense of people on the Austism Spectrum, but I think you have misinformation. I first need to point out (because it's a big pet peeve of mine) that Wikipedia is not a valid primary source for referencing. It can be edited by anyone and therefore can and often is just opinion or incorrectly interpreted information. Please note, Danielle, that your first link has at the top: This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it. But despite that, Austism IS on the list, the sixth item in the right hand column under A. Your own link disproves your point. I can't find anything in your third link that says that Asperger Syndrome isn't a mental disorder. In fact, the article mentions the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-TR) and DSM V which is soon to be coming out. Asperger Syndrome and Austism are discussed at length in DSM IV-TR which in fact is the foundation for anything that is used to diagnose them. If a person does not fit the DSM IV-TR diagnostic criteria, they cannot be officially diagnosed with either disorder. DSM V is supposed to be done soon and has caused a huge controversy in its changes in classifying Asperger Syndrome. The proposed new text would get rid of Asperger Syndrome as it's own diagnosis altogether and instead have it be listed under Autism Spectrum Disorder.
The two disorders are diagnosed by a psychiatrist, or a team containing a psychologist and a physician trained in mental health issues, not a regular medical doctor. Both are definitely mental "illnesses" as you call them, despite the fact that the term mental illness is not used officially by practicing professionals. The only way to classify them is as mental disorders. I know two people personally who have Asperger Syndrome and know of many more. I am not being derogatory or mean nor do I not understand what they are.
I am not positive that dyslexia is contained in the DSM IV-TR but I would be surprised if it weren't. Other learning disabilities, such as ADD and ADD-hyperactive type are in there. There are a lot of things in the book that are not commonly perceived as mental disorders. The problem is that people think that a mental disorder/illness means that someone is crazy which is not at all true. A mental disorder is a problem in the way the brain functions that is not the way it would in the average person. Almost no mental disorder can be diagnosed with machines or any physical medical test or tool. They have to be diagnosed by someone who understands how the brain works. Autism and Asperger Syndrome are no different.
I, too, get the impression that to you, mental illness has a negative connotation whereas Autism and Asperger Syndrome don't. That is unfairly biased. Very few people with mental health disorders would be classified as "crazy" by anyone who knows them and someone with profound Autism would be more obviously impaired than anyone with the mental illnesses you mention such as depression and anxiety.
Back on topic: I don't like Mikael very much, either. I do think that views on human sexuality differ in Sweden than in some other parts of the world, including the English-speaking world. But in some places it's very similar. In Sweden, it's legal for two people of the same gender to marry. I'm sure there is opposition but it is a national law. In most of the US it's not only not okay but in some places explicitly illegal. A recent president was impeached because he had a relationship outside his marriage. Any politician who is found to have extra-marital affairs usually loses his or her job. We are very backwards and reactionary here. Although, I personally do find Mikael's lack of commitment ability pathetic and the glib way everyone okay with it feels false. I think there is a lot more jealousy in the real world.
It is and odd story. Over descriptive of common items such as the items in a room. 2 main characters that are far from the typical "hero" role model.The saving grace of the story are the action scenes. Ironic that the "bad ass" is Lisbeth and she is the one that manages to save the day. Blomvist, well not sure he was ever really needed at all in the story. Lisbeth, had it been know she had the research and intellect for the job, could have been easily hired straight from the agency without any need for a partner. Strange.
Licha wrote: " I do think that some of the sex scenes were unnecessary. They didn't add much to the story and some of the scenes with Miriam(?) seemed a tad bit out of character."IIRC it is said that some of the unnecessary sex scenes in this book are added due to the publisher's suggestion, and the author stopped doing that in the other two books. imo Lisbeth is a character that is very hard not to like and Mikael doesn't seem to have any irredeemable flaw or do anything morally questionable either (so are probably all other "good folks" in this series).
hmmm book 2 is even worse! LoL. I won't spoil it for you but Lisbeth decides to really get her freak out in the sequel.
Lisbeth is bissexual so, there is bound to me more cenes in the folowing books....is that what is considered worse? All i can say they are maybe a tad repetitive, but sex is part of the normal life, yes? None of us would be herr today if all were celibates.You defo did not read 50 shades of Grey - now that is heavy stuff!
Maria wrote: "Lisbeth is bissexual so, there is bound to me more cenes in the folowing books....is that what is considered worse? All i can say they are maybe a tad repetitive, but sex is part of the normal life..."
Fifty Shades Trilogy... I agree totally very heavy stuff (eew...)
My thoughts- I can admire mikael's sharpness, eagerness for his job and his ability to uncover some brain-twisting conspiracys. However I can't like him as a person due to his umm... Morals and respect of women.
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Out of the books (which I think are fab) the only person I like is his sister. She seems like a polar opposite of him; really compassionate and empathetic. .
Fifty Shades Trilogy... I agree totally very heavy stuff (eew...)
My thoughts- I can admire mikael's sharpness, eagerness for his job and his ability to uncover some brain-twisting conspiracys. However I can't like him as a person due to his umm... Morals and respect of women.
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Out of the books (which I think are fab) the only person I like is his sister. She seems like a polar opposite of him; really compassionate and empathetic. .
Maria,Yes you are right on the spot there with his sister. I was wondering at the end of book 2 when I finished that if in Sweden she is the one that is considered the odd ball since she appears to be balanced, compassionate, faithful, etc... clearly she is the only character in either book 1 or book 2 that is what most people in the world would call "balanced".
I did not necessarily like the way Mikael lives his life, but I do like virtually ever other aspect of him. He is willing to go to any length to get the story and he believes that people can make a very good living and do it by not screwing every other person in the world.
DaleYou responded to Bookowl and not me - i didn´t mentioned the sister.
But yes, she is balanced, passionate and somewhat the ccounterpoint of Mickael; in book 3 she really gets a more center stage as she is defending Lisbeth in court....she shows one big set of b***s of steel, in there.
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And I try not be be influenced by the fact that in this book alone, he's sleeping with three different women, mostly at the same time, but since I'm venting, I don't really like that either. Maybe it's just my hope that Lisbeth will get her man talking (but please don't tell me, still reading the final book!), but this just rubs me the wrong way.
Am I the only one that feels this way, and/or WHY do you think Lisbeth trusts him?