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Why do we accept "rapeyness" in fiction?
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Sarge wrote: ""Reality is for people who can't handle fantasy".You win. Discussion rendered officially pointless."
:)
I will say I'm more likely to overlook rapeyiness in context of a well written novel than I am in a video game.
Back to the topic of Rapeishness ...[Minor Spoilers if you aren't 55% read in Kushiel's Dart]
In connection with her slavery, she had no way of giving or rescinding consent. I would technically consider this rape, although she handled it quite well ... all the while "hating her nature" that enjoyed it.
There was certainly no romance there to sugarcoat it but even my admitted hypersensitivity didn't get all outraged for her. Just minor squirmy-ness and complete understanding of her wanting to put a knife in the guys.
Also *hugs* to everyone willing to wade into a discussion based on this highly volatile subject, also for those unwilling to touch it with a 10ft pole!
I'll stray a little from fiction, but was I the only one that cheered after the elevator scene in the first episode of Lost Girl? i mean how the guy that tried to use roofies got drained and got what he deserved.
My answer (to the original poster title of the thread, to Vicky):I don't. It's one thing to be a little rough, like Lord Maccon in Soulless. It's altogether another to be "rapey". There was clear consent going on between Alexia and Conall (at least I feel there was).
I'm actually opting out of both of this months books because they BOTH have a BDSM warning... and "The Book of O" (what little of it I read - somewhere in the middle, mind you) was too much for me, so I thought I'd steer clear. (Neither synopsis really intrigues me either - this month I'm reading Parasol #3 "Blameless", and Jax #2 "Wanderlust" - the continuations of the last two months' alts.)
Don't you find that so? It's one thing to be all rough and tumble with the girl when she wants it, asks for it, even initiates it. It's another thing to just have sex happen to you, out of your control, your mind screaming NO.
Katinka wrote: "The new Tombraider game is on my preorder list. If she gets raped, I hope she goes after the assholes and gives them what they deserve. I have no problem seeing a woman heroine have a rape backstor..."it's not like game of Thrones couldn't fit in the discussion; but the book's world is too meessed up and there would be other issues to bring up.
Katinka wrote: "I'm surprised Game of Thrones hasn't been brought into the discussion. Whole lot of raping in that. "The raping in Game of Thrones is presented very clearly as an awful thing. I've only read the first three books so far, but I don't think anyone has fallen in love with their rapist.
Katinka wrote: "Caitlin wrote: "The raping in Game of Thrones is presented very clearly as an awful thing. I'v..."In the TV version, it was presented that Dany was raped by Khal Drogo on their wedding night, and..."
Then it's a good thing that you didn't read further. That, believe me, was the gentlest 'rape' in the book.
In the GoT book, Dany wasn't raped so much as seduced with a language barrier. He moves slowly and gently and says "No" when she seemed embarrassed or afraid, lifting he face to make her look at him, and she echoes "No" back. Then they move slowly again. Gently. Finally when they get to sex he asks "No?" and she says "Yes."I have no idea why the TV show wanted to make it rape (and the author is involved in the show). Maybe the seduction took too long, or they wanted her plight to stand out in case anyone missed that she was sold in marriage. In any case, her love makes no sense in the TV show, but I understood it in the book.
Tangled wrote: "In the GoT book, Dany wasn't raped so much as seduced with a language barrier. He moves slowly and gently and says "No" when she seemed embarrassed or afraid, lifting he face to make her look at h..."I know why they did it that way; that's how HBO works.
I hope they won't show Ramsey Snow's ( he's the bastard of the series) wedding night
Kamil wrote: "Tangled wrote: "In the GoT book, Dany wasn't raped so much as seduced with a language barrier. He moves slowly and gently and says "No" when she seemed embarrassed or afraid, lifting he face to m..."A chance to show naked women in any context? What was that about how HBO works?
Tangled wrote: "Kamil wrote: "Tangled wrote: "In the GoT book, Dany wasn't raped so much as seduced with a language barrier. He moves slowly and gently and says "No" when she seemed embarrassed or afraid, liftin..."not this time.
Katinka wrote: "In the TV version, it was presented that Dany was raped by Khal Drogo on their wedding night, and then she eventully came to love him, etc."Oh yes, I forgot about it because I was thinking back to the books rather than the show. I hated how they changed that. I thought it was ridiculous that they decided to make it into a rape, BECAUSE she ends up loving him.
This big objection to the Tomb Raider rape is that it occurs during play - not as a cut scene. The Exec Producer says 'players will feel protective of Lara, want to save her" {paraphrased} which is problematic in and of itself but anyway...How many players will not save Lara - let the rape happen in order to see what happens and how that effects her character and the game?
This is the big problem.
As to GOT, I agree: HBO took what was a very nuanced relationship with problematic beginnings and reduced it to rape and Stockholm syndrome. How many people watch that and think it is possible to actually love a rapist? I think it was very irresponsible.
Eddie Louise wrote: "This big objection to the Tomb Raider rape is that it occurs during play - not as a cut scene... How many players will not save Lara - let the rape happen in order to see what happens and how that effects her character and the game?... "This is just sick!
Now a days I feel that rape is thrown into the mix to rush a characters growth or breakdown. Not saying it's right but it is easy. If you want to put it into specific groups. There are those who after something as horrific as rape BREAK. They may except as something inevitable and concede. Doesn't mean there broken just that the situation seems bleak and thus excepted. There are those who can't move on and may drink and drug,literally hide from the world or suicide. There are also the type that try to FORGET and may also use destructive means to do so as well. Forgetting always seems seems simple at first. Just forget and the whole world will too. Then there are does who will try to OWN it. They may become promiscuous as away to control there surrounding. There are some as a way of owning it become very aggressive and defensive. Some may turn to owning their sexuality because they'll be damned if someone thinks they even take that from them. This is just a few branches but in the end the person is changed forever. Some poisons turns into medicine and some just kill you. This is just some of the reasons why I think it is used and sometimes over used. Sorry for rambling on :)
Mod
Monica Burns writes romance novels and while I've never read any of them, her book Assassin's Honor is on my to-read shelf.
What's interesting about this is that Monica Burns is a rape survivor. She writes about how writing erotic romances has helped in her healing process in this article.
In this blog article she writes about Speak, which is about a teenage rape victim. It was interesting to me that even given her past experiences, she still believes that these are important topics for kids to read about in books.
Eddie Louise wrote: "http://www.escapistmagazine.com/artic...Excellent article by a rape survivor here."
Thou that was an excellent article of his experience as survivor it doesn't speak for everyone. What I wrote thou not perfect was from what I have seen and discussed with some very good friends who have experienced such acts.
My friends and I read this article and felt sorry and hope he can take each day one step at a time. A couple felt a little offended because they don't deal with it like that. And wanted to know if they should feel ashamed for being happily married and loving sex?
Which brings up a good question. How many people have read this and not commented because they don't perceive themselves to be crushed by that experience anymore. Not saying the pain is not there. Just the refusal of letting that pain dominate them.
As one of my friends put it, " I woke up one day and asked myself. Am I going to stay here or move forward?" She then got dressed and with anger in one hand and determination in the other walked out her front door. That was 23 yrs ago. The rape did change her as all experience do. This was just her way of getting her life back.
All I'm saying people deal with hardship in different ways. And all are trying to find some way of healing even if it's using the very thing that was used against them. We also need to figure out if a rape seen was just thrown into a story for the sake of it or was it a really an essential aspect for the character's development? Sometimes I think that was so not needed and other times I see where the author was trying to go with it.
Vicky wrote: "I came across an interesting tidbit today that I thought might be an interesting twist (or if nothing else, interesting information) for this thread.Monica Burns writes romance novels and while ..."
I think I'll try one of her books. all for empowerment
Tangled wrote: "In the GoT book, Dany wasn't raped so much as seduced with a language barrier. He moves slowly and gently and says "No" when she seemed embarrassed or afraid, lifting he face to make her look at h..."YES YES YES. That was the #1 thing that bothered me so much about the show vs. the book. In the book there's definitely something sweet about it... and it is clearly not rape... in the show, she falls in love with her rapist.
Christine wrote: "My answer (to the original poster title of the thread, to Vicky):I don't. It's one thing to be a little rough, like Lord Maccon in Soulless. It's altogether another to be "rapey". There was clea..."
I just finished Soulless (was a little bit late to the game on that one) and really appreciated how much of a wilting flower Alexia WASN'T, and how everything sexy that happened, she was clearly into. There can be hotness without "rape-ish". I don't always mind dicey stuff in fiction.... but I would like to see more women who know what they want and non alpha males.
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Assassin's Honor (other topics)Speak (other topics)
You win. Discussion rendered officially pointless.