Amazon refuse to remove spiteful review

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

Amazon are very careful not to let anyone know how they select for Vine.

[Patti (baconater)]

There's a 'what is vine' page isn't there?

I think I read it ages ago.

[[deleted user]]

Patti (Stir Crazy) wrote: "There's a 'what is vine' page isn't there?

I think I read it ages ago."

I read that after reading Damaskat's post - I think I found it from a link on a review by a vine member. I think it was in the just finished just started thread that Damaskcat mentioned it because she is a vine reviewer. Since I read her description I've been more trusting of the reviews - if the person interviewed on radio four was a vine reviewer it sounds like he/she's misunderstood what's expected. They are supposed to give genuine reviews - meaning bad reviews as well as good!

:0)

[[deleted user]]

Just found Damaskcat's comments..

Damaskcat says:
It's an invitation only scheme which Amazon run primarily to help publishers/manufacturers promote new products by getting early reviews of them on Amazon. Members of Vine have two newsletters a month and they can pick two products free from each of the newsletters. You don't have to pick anything if nothing appeals but you must review 80% od what you've received before you can choose anything else.

More information here: - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/vine/help

I've been a member since 2008 and absolutely love it. I've read loads of books I wouldn't otherwise have read and had one or two kitchen gadgets I probably wouldn't have bought either. You can't sell or giveaway anything you get through Vine - you're liable to be kicked off it if you do that.

Many of the books I get are proof copies which makes them interesting in their own right and you often get books quite a while before they're actually published which is very good too. I find quite often there are books on the list which I would have bought anyway so quite often it saves me money.

You might think it's only those reviews in the top 1000 who get invited but I think I was about 6,000 when I joined. No one has any idea how they pick people.

[[deleted user]]

A later comment from Damaskat

"The only downside of Vine is that Vine reviews attract a disproportionate number of negative votes :-( Possibly because of jealousy or because some people have the idea that we have to post 5* reviews - which isn't true. Our reviews aren't censored either - except in as far as they have to abide by the general reviewing guidelines."

[Simon (Highwayman)]

I think the spoofers choose stuff in the amazon third party sales and the sellers give them stuff to write amusing reviews that generate traffic.

[Stuart]

I seem to have acquired a serial 'down-voter' on the five star reviews for Tollesbury Time Forever - excellent!

[Rosemary (grooving with the Picts)]

Ach Stuart - it's just a sign you've made it. Don't worry :)

[Stuart]

Rosemary wrote: "Ach Stuart - it's just a sign you've made it. Don't worry :)"

Well thank goodness for that!!

[Katie]

I know a writer who started publishing at around the same time as I published my first book. Yesterday her book hit #12 on the Top 100 best sellers. She immediately got a one star review. The review was generic - it contained absolutely nothing that suggested they'd even looked at the book. Someone shooting down tall poppies, I think. I'd noticed your down voter, Stuart, and thought the same thing about them. Whether it's someone who just doesn't like someone to be too successful or (and I hope not) another writer that can't stand being passed on the charts, is hard to know. Either way, it's annoying.

[Stuart]

My guess would be another writer - more confused than annoyed to be honest! But then I wake up confused most of the time so it's difficult to tell!

[Stuart]

Not sure how you can do that with the vote thing. It's big old free world though - rather someone be mean to me than anyone else so actually I don't really mind too much!

[Kath]

If it's just no-votes for his 5* reviewers (one of whom is me!) there's nothing to report. Just some nut-job getting a high on trying to undermine a good writer. I'd feel sorry for him/her - if I could be bothered.

[Elle]

They may also be someone who reviewed it lower and don't agree with 5*'s


Truly hate when people downvote a review if it's the opposite of what they think. They clearly don't get the whole 'is it helpful?' question..

[Stuart]

Ignite wrote: "If it's just no-votes for his 5* reviewers (one of whom is me!) there's nothing to report. Just some nut-job getting a high on trying to undermine a good writer. I'd feel sorry for him/her - if I..."

Brilliant!

[Stuart]

But then I know of authors who down vote any poor reviews even if that review is the honest opinion of the reviewer - which I think is just as questionable. Not sure why they have the whole helpful/unhelpful thing anyway to be honest.

[Kath]

It's how they rank reviewers Stu. If you get lots of 'helpful' votes you go up the reviewer rankings faster. I think it is so open to abuse it's less than useless but that's how Amazon works. It almost begs reviewers to be sycophantic to authors to get 'yes' votes and not to be critical. However, if you buy a book because someone with loads of 'yes' votes and a 5* reviews says it's good then it turns out to be unmittigated dross, it was hardly a helpful review!

[Katy]

I don't review everything I've ever read; I'd be constantly writing reviews! I tend to only leave a review if I feel strongly about the book, or to give the author feedback, which usually means I tend to leave a lot of good reviews.

However, I tend to use the Goodreads 'star' system to give my opinion about a book. For example, Wuthering Heights. I hated it, and so gave it one star, whereas others I've known have loved it. I didn't feel the need to tell people why I disliked it, as its not like I'm giving the author feedback (:

That's just my opinion, though.

[Kath]

I always feel reviews are to inform prospective readers though.

[Katy]

I agree, Ignite, but I also think that the authors enjoy getting feedback, knowing what works and what doesn't (:

Unfortunately, I don't know many people who listen to reviews!

[Stuart]

As an author I find the feedback invaluable but do agree that reviews should be more for readers than authors. Everyone has an opinion and should be allowed to share it. For an author to be upset about that opinion is akin, in my eyes, to being upset that they are allowed to have the freedom to voice that opinion. To be able to write something and distribute it to others to read is a massive privelage. The fact that people read it is an honour. If they don't like what you write then that is their privelage to air their views. It certainly is a strange old wonderful old world!

[Rosen]

I agree Stuart. Readers should be allowed to voice their honest opinions. However, I don't think that should extend to people who haven't read a book, being able to trash an author's rating by pretending that they have.

[Elizabeth]

I'm beginning to look forward to my first 1* review. It might actually give me some kudos among those who think if you only have 5* and 4* reviews you must be cheating.

[J.S.]

Bung me a fiver and I'll write you a 1* review ;)

[Rosen]

Ha ha! The perfect one star review:
"Noooo! This book was only 80,000 words. I just love [author] so much that I can't cope with less than 150,000. Also, I laughed so much a wet myself.
So I ended up frustrated and smelly."

[Patti (baconater)]

Brilliant Rosen!

Frustrated and smelly! Lmao!

[Linda]

I'm a moderator on a forum full of alpha personalities and this sometimes results in conflict, shall we say. The forum ias also one which attracts disgruntled members of the public and trolls. I'm waiting for the revenge reviews with some trepidation.

[Katie]

I wrote about this in another group, but it's relevant here. The other day, I dared to go onto the Amazon UK forum. There was a link to a thread that looked interesting under one of my books, so I clicked on it. The first post was from someone named 'John' who started out by stating that any self-published authors who dared to suggest their own books as answer to the inquiry would receive a scathing and vicious one star review for their book. I checked this man's reviews and sure enough, there was at least three one star reviews that actually stated that they were in retaliation for 'spamming'. There was nothing to say he'd read them at all, but he took great pains to tear down every other review as 'fake'. I can't believe people can get away with that sort of review!

[Lindsay]

I think we should lobby Amazon to change the wording from "Review" to "Opinion". Because that's all they are, both for books and other products.It is that users (readers) opinion on the product they bought. It is coloured by their own experience, perception and understanding. A "Review" is unbiased and uncoloured by personal opinion.

Which i am sure someone else has probably mentioned before me.

Oh and Rosen i agree that people should not be allowed to review a book they haven't read, but unfortunately these trolls are clever and if Amazon start removing those kind of posts the trolls will just start putting in phrases to make it seem like they have read the book. Also if you get a trolls post removed it is like a rallying cry for all the other trolls and then the problem just intensifies to dramatic proportions.

I don't like it, but what can we do?

[Elle]

But Linsday if you read some of the reviews, they are exactly that. (unbiased and uncoloured - quite frankly I find those boring though)

And while I don't necessarily think I give a proper literary review, I like to think I do give some sort of review of the book more so than just my opinion.

[Linda]

Changing the term from review to opinion might stop some reviewers feeling they have to outline the whole plot.

The Amazon forums seem to be mainly oposted in by pewople who enjoy posturing to one another and stroking each other's egos. I feel very uncomfortable there and I notice that fewer and fewer people actually post comments.

I can understand why people got fed up with authors spamming but to issue a one star review because of it borders on the fraudulent.