Amazon refuse to remove spiteful review

[Elle]

I didn't see it as an attack though. I mean it does focus only on the book and while skewed, I wouldn't call it an attack~

[Rosen]

It doesn't focus on the book. Nothing it that review links it to the book. Certainly, some people might find the humour puerile, but the review is so vague that there is no indication that the reviewer has the faintest clue what it's about. The only specific point doesn't match.

[Niall]

that's a pretty big statement Elle, does that "ON-ONE" include paedophiles, racists who advocate violence and murder, men or women that promote violence against the opposite sex? I am all for free speech, You, me, anyone and everyone has the right to say anything they want, but they have to also accept their actions may carry adverse consequences

[Elle]

Yep. It does.

[Rosen]

So, if it was my view that a particular writer didn't deserve to do well. If I took it upon myself to ruin their career, by strategically posting hateful reviews and rallying other people to do the same, I shouldn't be held accountable?

[Elle]

By who though?

By that writer, by Amazon, by everyone, by the internet gods?


Accountable to who exactly would they be?


And if anyone has that done against them by the weak minded then that is very sad, and quite pathetic on those doing the rallying parts, but they are fully entitled to live their pathetic warfare lives and that author is fully entitled to ignore them and make sure people know of how what they are doing and shaming them, exactly like you did in this thread.

I don't, however, think they should be punished. There is a lot more evil and hateful things in the world than a bad or hateful review.

[Rosen]

Punished, perhaps not. Silenced, yes.
If somebody had worked for years building up a writing career, then I don't think anybody has the right to destroy it.
Words can do great harm.

Of course there are a lot more evil thinks than bad reviews, but this thread is about that and I'm not going to take the argument to absurdity by using a more revolting comparison.

[Jay]

Freedom of expression is very important. Surely the only censorship should be from the reaction of people who use their own freedom of expression to ridicule what deserves it? The problem, of course, is the apathy of the general population. It takes time and energy to think something through and react appropriately. Most commonly these days we see the energy and get the decibels from extremists, while the general population sit back and say 'whatever'.

[Rosen]

In some circumstances, there is a fine line between freedom of speech and harassment.

[M.L.]

Bravo Jay- well said- very true.

[Elle]

Jay wrote: "Freedom of expression is very important. Surely the only censorship should be from the reaction of people who use their own freedom of expression to ridicule what deserves it? The problem, of cours..."

Perfectly written Jay :D

[Rosen]

I have found that co-operating with other writers increases my success.

There are three or four authors that I actively promote and as a result, I get into conversations with people who end up reading my stuff.

There is one writer in particular who I keep getting compared to. I don't see him as competition. I see him as somebody who encourages people to read the style I like to write.

I simply don't understand why people would strategically hurt the competition in a field where each individual owns so many different products. As Patti pointed out earlier, it's not like buying a house or a car.

[Stuart]

Louise-Lesley (Elle) wrote: "I view both of them the same Rosen.


I didn't say you had to accept it, I said you have to deal with it. (apparently you have to deal with my bad typing and me first. LOL)

People who don't acce..."

I totally agree Elle!

[Elle]

I totally agree with you on that point Rosen, hence I think it's pretty pathetic, but ah well. Some people are just pathetic..

[Victoria (daisyduck)]

Sadly, some authors (I am not referring to you, Rosen) are claiming that reviews are malicious if they don't like them.

I looked a one star review of a book that I had reviewed myself as 2 stars. The review stated that the book was one of the worst the reviewer had ever read. The author posted underneath claiming that this must be a malicious review as the book had been in the top 100 romance titles for a year (this fact, I find STAGGERING, as the quality of writing was incredibly poor), and couldn't seem to accept that in that reviewers experience, her book was one of the worst she had read. The reviewer, took great offence at that and commented in response about the author's arrogance in assuming that a bad review could only be malicious.

The author did not comment on my review, perhaps because I wrote a great deal more detail in my commentary.

[Katie]

I received a one-star review a couple of months ago. I didn't comment on it, though another reviewer did because she'd made one aspect of the book sound quite sordid when it wasn't. Then suddenly the other day, it vanished. I've no idea why. I don't know if you can look up a reviewer to see if it was just that review she deleted or whether she cancelled her account, or what happened, but it's gone.

Personally, I don't think I'd bother to read a book by a writer who got into an argument with a reviewer. Bad reviews hurt a lot (and you have my sympathy, Rosen), but appearing thin-skinned or arrogant does more harm I think. A one-star review, when all the others are fours and fives, looks odd anyway. Let the readers judge for themselves.

[Rosen]

I've received many one and two star reviews. Sometimes they feel malicious, particularly if the reviewer hasn't said anything helpful or has been downright rude. You get many greedy readers who expect writers to persistently supply then with professionally edited free novels and mark a book down if it doesn't give them the earth. I try to take those in my stride but I can see why other writers don't.

In the case you described however, the author does sound remarkably self-obsessed. She has made a grave error in arguing against an individual's personal experience with her book. Even if you feel cheated, it's best not to engage.

Besides, her argument is bogus. One Day, for example, was a best-seller, but many people genuinely hated it.

[Tom]

I'm starting to see that when it comes to ratings and reviews, sample size matters. When you have only a few, each one seems magnified in importance, but once they pile up, the individual ones tend to get lost in the heap and matter much less. Check any fairly popular YouTube video. Nobody even reads those comments anymore. It sucks to get stupid one star reviews (and believe me, I know, especially here on GR where people can be pretty harsh). Probably best to let it be, though. It'll get lost in the shuffle in time

[Kate]

I've been reading this thread the last few days and there have been some interesting views to which I couldn't add much. But then.... I've just finished a book and rated it 3* (through the kindle). Once I get on laptop and write the review I will make it clear that the book was v well written and had an exciting , intelligent and fast paced plot but just wasn't a book was I could lose myself in (i'm trying diff genres for book challenge). so my point is that in order to decide if a review is worth paying attention too,it is important to look beyond the star ratings. hopefully the review won't deter people from your book
X

[Rosen]

Hi Kate,
Thanks for giving the book a try. I look forward to your review.
P.S. Did you spot any porn?

[Elle]

Not really impossible at all.

Completely down to personal taste ;)

[Shaun]

As a writer myself, I often mull over whether to write a review, especially if it's something I didn't like/enjoy very much. If I write a bad review, I know some authors may feel I'm just being vindictive, which I am not. I would never, ever do that. All I'm doing is giving my opinion for what it's worth. I also don't review under a false name. I have nothing to hide. But I also think that if all I gave were reviews full of praise, who would take me seriously? When I look at a reviewers reviews, I like to see a broad range. It shows me that they are not afraid to give their honest opinion, whether good or bad, as surely nobody likes every book they read. But if you only review the books you like, I feel it doesn't earn the reviewer as much respect. It's all about honesty. But even when I don't like something, I still try to point out a positive aspect too. But we can't all like the same things, otherwise the world would be a very bland place. Of course if the review didn't relate to the book, that's a different matter. But just thought I'd chime in.

[Elle]

You make a really great point Shaun. Some people I don't really trust their reviews because every books seems to get a 5star rating!

[Emma]

I am guilty of rating the books I read quite high but that is because I would give up on a book that I would rate less than 3* and therefore wouldn't review it

[Shaun]

It's the same if a reviewer only leaves bad reviews too in that I don't take too much notice of them.

[Elle]

Emma, I have read books I would rate 2 stars all the way through simply because it would kill me to not know how it ended.

[Kate]

It wasn't your book Rosen, I've not yet read this one although think its in my tbr file.
I personally wouldn't write a 'bad' review, i can be critical but try to do so in a constructive way, but i don't read a book if its badly written and i don't want to spend time thinking/ writing about books I've not enjoyed

[Shaun]

Emma wrote: "I am guilty of rating the books I read quite high but that is because I would give up on a book that I would rate less than 3* and therefore wouldn't review it"

But isn't that worth a comment too on why you couldn't finish it? I know it's hard sometimes, but if you've invested the time in reading at least some of the story, you probably have an opinion, as in the characters didn't grab you, the story wasn't engaging etc. Perhaps other people would like to know about it. Just a thought. I'll shut up now.

[Lorraine]

I won't force myself to read a book I struggle getting into, and will not rate a book badly just because it's not my thing, so yeah, plenty of five stars *tidlidim*

[Elle]

I agree with you Kate. I've never wrote a negative review without some sort of constructive criticism.

Although sometimes with the books I read it's hard not to totally slate them. I always try to remember that someone put hours of work into it though and try to find the good.

I try to find the good in everything though.

[Rosen]

Ah Kate, misread your post. I thought you were trying to say you couldn't comment because you hadn't read 'Doogy', but now you had.

I think there's a big difference between a bad review and a critical review. For example, the difference between:
"i luved it. it was gud. yeah, a real gud book"
"The narrative was poorly structured, the characters implausible and the ending was abrupt."

Or worse still:
"It was too short. I didn't like it."

Nothing more annoying than a brief, unfocussed review that criticises shortness.

[Elle]

I have this insane hatred for people who give bad reviews like that on Amazon

'didn't like it. was too small'


or the like.

[Rosen]

It amuses me when reviewers make the mistake their complaining about. "It was badly profread."

[Lorraine]

Do you actually all consider yourself confident enough to give a critical review? Because the last thing I do when I'm reading is analyse stuff. I I do enough thinking during the day, when I take my book I just want to do that: read. I haven't done literary studies (well I have a bit but I skived most of the time) and I don't think myself "qualified" enough to tell someone who actually has experience of writing that they're doing something wrong.
Plus I don't think it's my place to deter someone from reading a book. I'd happily encourage someone to read something I have enjoyed but, with my lack of knowledge, I just don't think it's fair on a potential reader that I influence them towards deciding not to read something that they might have otherwise enjoyed, and it's not fair that I deprive the writer from a potential reader because I haven't got a clue.
So no, you probably won't get any criticism out of me. If that makes me someone who's easier to please, then so be it.
If someone could give me some guidance it would be good, because I'm kind of Stuck between a rock and a hard place...If I don't review I don't help... I do review but I don't help either... What should I do?

[Emma]

Lorraine - Huggybear wrote: "Do you actually all consider yourself confident enough to give a critical review? Because the last thing I do when I'm reading is analyse stuff. I I do enough thinking during the day, when I take m..."

Wow, Lorraine, that is exactly how I feel too x

[Rosen]

Lorraine and Emma, your opinions are just as valid as somebody who's done literary studies, and perhaps much more relevant to the average reader.

I do know what you mean though. I have similar confidence issues about writing.

[Patti (baconater)]

I say ignore everyone else and do what feels right to you.

That's what I'm agonna do. :)

[Gingerlily - The Full Wild]

I get really discouraged about reviewing when I see person after person say that they never read 5 star reviews, or that anyone who writes only 5 star reviews isn't worth anythibng. I review to tell people about books that I have read and loved. I read a lot of books I don't review because I can'r remember enough about them, or they didn't grab my interest enough to boher finishing. So when I do read something I really enjoy I review it so others can get to share that. But if no-one pays any attention to them, why am I bothering...?

[Shaun]

Having looked at the best selling books a few times I'm not convinced low star ratings have done them any harm as some of them have quite a few bad reviews. My own star rating is 5: cannot put it down. Characters and plot are compelling and I would read the book again. 4: generally excellent but there are one or two things that drag it down such as a poor ending. 3: so so book. Readable but nothing stands out about it. 2: a book that I finish but I find myself skimming through for reasons such as boring long passages. 1: nothing about the book grabbed me and I gave up on it. This is of course only my general guidance as some books have good plots but poorly written characters etc. But everyone's mileage varies and all well thought out reviews are important because a simple .it was great' or .it was rubbish' doesn't really help tell me why.

[Lindsay]

I came up with a simple formula for my reviews.
list the things i didn't like, then the things i did like and then sum it up and tell people whether i would recommend the book.

That way i am honest and hopefully constructive. The author (if they read it) can see the things that may not work in a story and other readers are aware of anything i didn't enjoy about the story.

I think the key, as everyone else has already stated, is to just be honest. You don't have to like the story, but that doesn't mean no one else will. You have a right to say, "i didn't enjoy this story because..." but if you just say "This story is shit..." then you are being spiteful and unhelpful to other people who are looking at the reviews.

[J.S.]

The thing is (as someone alluded earlier) Amazon and GR are different, as I see it.

On GR, one star means 'I didn't like it' whereas on Amazon it means (SHOULD mean) 'It is bad'. I wouldn't post a one-star review on Amazon unless there was an actual PROBLEM with the book. (And in fact, I have never posted a one-star for a book; though I have for other things.)

[Kate]

J.S. wrote: "The thing is (as someone alluded earlier) Amazon and GR are different, as I see it.

On GR, one star means 'I didn't like it' whereas on Amazon it means (SHOULD mean) 'It is bad'. I wouldn't post a..."

Why should the rating you give a book alter depending on the site?

Lorraine I can understand not wanting to think too deeply about books you've read for enjoyment and I wouldn't comment about things such as sentence structure, but I can say things such as: not all of the characters were well developed or it ended abruptly. I often leave myself a couple of days to think about the book before writing it. Having said that I've reviewed textbooks and been a peer reviewer for journals so constructive reviews about content are essential for that.

ML: I don't understand your comments on books being over someone's head?

Essentially I feel that reviews, like GL pointed out, are my way of saying I liked this book and think you will because..... but maybe the author could improve on.....

[Kate]

But that's just my way, its no more valid than any other way!

[J.S.]

"Why should the rating you give a book alter depending on the site?"

Well... exactly like you said... this is just my way, so...

On GR I am telling the recommendations engine that 'I didn't like this book - recommend me something different next time'; on Amazon, I am telling other people 'don't buy this - it is rubbish'.

[Kath]

Amazon's one star is 'I hate it'. I would only give that to a book promoting racial hatred or cruelty (to humans or animals). If I don't enjoy a book it gets 2 stars but I'll say why. It spoils it for me if the ending is predictable, if the story is lame, if the characters are stereotypes. The books I enjoy I often love wholeheartedly. They get 5 because in many cases I would and do read them again. I don't care if people dismiss 5* reviews. I'm not going to talk a book down for other people's prejudices.

I don't down-grade a book just on proofreading grounds. If it's otherwise excellent I would let the author know the problems and then mark as corrected. If it's full of errors and limp too, then I mention it in the review but I'm not here to bring poor work up to standard.

I didn't know I was going to say all that when I started!

[Elizabeth]

You have renewed my faith in reviewers. I've been 'unlucky' enough to have received mostly 5 stars for my 3 books and I think that puts people off on amazon. What can an author do but keep on writing and hoping...

Thank you for posting.

[Kath]

Keep writing Elizabeth. It's only the voluble few that say they are put off by 5* reviews. Most of us (well, me!) will click on the reviewer and see if s/he has reviewed anything else. The only 5*s I ignore are those which come from someone who hasn't reviewed anything else. It's his Mum!

[Elizabeth]

Rosen wrote: "A reviewer left a one star review on one of my titles, and the review didn't match the book.

It was generally non-specific except for a point that related to 'a poor attempt at porn'. There is no ..."

On principle I've bought, tweeted and shared this on Facebook, but I am really looking forward to this read. Sounds right up my street and I'll certainly review to counteract that silly, spiteful one.

[Andrew]

As a reader, I won't let any single review sway me too far either way. It would be a truly weird world if everyone liked the same sort of thing, and I'm sure the Complete Works of Shakespeare has the odd one star review attached to it. If 20 people have indicated that they're broadly positive about a book, and one person has left an illiterate rant telling me it sucks, then I tend to think that says more about the reviewer than the book itself.

[Simon (Highwayman)]

I have to admit I am more interested in the 2 or 3 star reviews. I don't agree with the analysis that people who give a low rating to classics or award winning books are too stupid to understand them at all by the way. When an author publishes a book he puts it public for all to see. I usually hate all the shortlisted books in 'Mann-Booker' (is it still called that?). I don't tend to put reviews up anyway unless I feel particularly strongly one way or another (or I am bored, drunk and online).

I think most people who read reviews are able to take them or leave them and I think it is great in the internet age that everyone is empowered to give an opinion on 'great' books even if they are not academics.

Only a tiny minority of people cannot see the spiteful reviews for what they are and perhaps they are the people some authors consider too stupid to read their book anyway.