The Sword and Laser discussion
This topic is about
Hyperion
2012 Reads
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Hyp: Chapter One: Very intense!
I have to admit I truly do like the suspense and horror aspect that I am noticing in the first chapter. I only have a few more pages to go and am excited to finish it.
Jules wrote: "...this is turning into a horror book"I don't recall a whole lot more of the horrific or macabre. It certainly features it, but...
One of the interesting pieces of this novel is how easily it changes styles and genres to suit each storyteller. Better yet, rather than making the flow choppy or uneven, even the very basics of how he writes each story serves to add depth to the already interesting characters.
I was telling a friend I find myself finishing up each story with a hearty "well, that was messed up!" (insert more colorful language here). Each tale is different in tone, yet each one leaves me chilled. LOVE IT.
Jules wrote: "I adore stories with an anthropology feel that explore the logic of mysterious and unknown peoples, so the Bikura were of great interest to me ..."This was my favourite story as well, and also not because of its religious stuff. Simmons did a great job of piquing my interest in the Bikura. Who are these guys and lift up those robes already so we can see what you're hiding. And I found myself wishing the priest over the ledge so he can find out what they get up to under there and then we he finally does its like uh oh, don't get caught. And it just gets weirder and more "horror" like as it goes on - in that when you think it couldn't get more weird, it does right up to the "electrifying" moment, but even beyond that when we find out what the "pilgrim" priest is carrying on him. Brilliant and suspenseful story telling - all the intellectual stuff is ok but its the story telling that's got me hooked.
I just finished Chapter 1 as well. What a fantastic read. Simmons is very skilled at bringing the setting to life and making the reader care about it. The Bikura are an interesting bunch and I am curious to see how this story fits in with the rest of them.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one simply meandering through chapter 1, and then suddenly I'm afraid to sleep at night. For fear of people with sharp rocks.
Kendrick wrote: "I'm afraid to sleep at night. For fear of people with sharp rocks."Yeah, the whole thing had a Lottery feel to it. Very unsettling.
So far I'm getting a very gothic-novel feel from this book. The first story felt almost like an E. A. Poe short story.Unsettling and at times uncomfortable to read, yet engrossing. I really like this combination.
"And if you did it again, we would have to kill you again" is such a beautifully chilling line.
Nathan wrote: "i just felt a bit boredish."What a delightful word.
It was a very strong way to start you get so thrown in to the world before he begins the tale the story. The story slows the pace down and you begin to understand what is going through Duré's fears and hopes. Also how cool are the Tesla trees? For me they looked like giant organic coils. The Tesla coil is already so awesome then to marry it with a tree...oh yeah that's what I am talking about! I just love Nikola Tesla and his really cute mustache.
Great chapter! I couldn't put the book down until I finished!
I'm rereading it, just about finished this chapter now - and it still gives me goosebumps. I love how he gives you a little piece of the puzzle at a time - the diary structure works great because you are discovering everything along with Dure.
I'm rereading it, just about finished this chapter now - and it still gives me goosebumps. I love how he gives you a little piece of the puzzle at a time - the diary structure works great because you are discovering everything along with Dure. Yeah, I was so frustrated then when Duré went down the chasm and was so excited about his find that he never got round to explaining what he actually found! Fortunately he recovered quickly :)
Well, if boredish is the term, than my problem is I never really did transition to gripped... I really want to like this book, as it's my first S&L read, but I am really struggling to finish it!Here's hoping chapter 2 is better...
Nimrod wrote: "Well, if boredish is the term, than my problem is I never really did transition to gripped... I really want to like this book, as it's my first S&L read, but I am really struggling to finish it!H..."
Agreed...I love world building but the technical is a little too much for me at the start. Pushing through.
Jess wrote: ""And if you did it again, we would have to kill you again" is such a beautifully chilling line."Agreed! Quite the awesome line.
I just finished this chapter today on my lunch break, and though it was amazing. Not only the stories of the priest's journal, but the "epilogue" of Hoyt's truthful recounting of when he finally found the priest. Can't wait to read more.
Just finished chapter 1 as well. Have some theories about the Bakira. Fascinating!
To be honest, I was quite glad to dive into the Priest's story and get away from the technological terms for a bit. I'm not a heavy SciFi reader and was quickly discouraged at the beginning of "Hyperion". The story within a story within a story has given me a lot of drive to keep going though. I simply loved how it was set up, and the diary form worked well for it. The Bikura chilled and intrigued me, and Duré's solution was horrifying on so many levels. I found myself wanting to explore more of that story, and was almost disappointed when it was done. Until we discovered what the Priest is carrying! A very strong story to kick off with, and I do hope the others will be equally gripping and brilliant.
Stefanie wrote: "To be honest, I was quite glad to dive into the Priest's story and get away from the technological terms for a bit. I'm not a heavy SciFi reader and was quickly discouraged at the beginning of "Hyp..."To me it was also a relief to get past the prolouge and the beginning of the first chapter. I'm not that much of a "hard science fiction" - reader. I found the Bikura-story very intriguing. Those childish, retarded sexless creatures were extremely creepy. I hope the mystery of their origin will be solved later in the book.
Nimrod wrote: "Well, if boredish is the term, than my problem is I never really did transition to gripped... I really want to like this book, as it's my first S&L read, but I am really struggling to finish it!H..."
I must agree. I wanted to like this book for the same reason.
I ended up noticing the grammar -- me --- noticing grammar!!! The first chapter put me to sleep twice... I even tried switching to Kindle voice thinking that might help. It didn't - I ended up listening to a Canadian newscast instead.
No problem with the terminology - made up words are made up words. And the few technical words are not very interesting. It isn't what I call hard science fiction but more the matter of an English major trying to do science by layering it in afterwards to make the story "science". No science person would use words this way. I'd classify it as fantasy and so far, not an interesting fantasy. Maybe Ch. 2 is better - otherwise this will be a hard slog to get through.
I kept wondering why this story wasn't grabbing me and I realized the author was depending on modifiers to make the environment interesting and that everything was in passive voice. The verbs were boring... was, is, said, etc. Then I had visions of what my Freshman English teacher (she was excellent) would have done to the story and it was full of redlines and notes saying "action verb" or "be concrete, make it tangible". "Make it live!" LOL.
I hope the other chapters depend on more than modifiers. I mean, "great, green, saurian thing"... really? Saurian makes it science? Surging and bellowing --- geesh Lewis Carroll would at least have had it galumphing. :(
It seems like a rewrite of "The Canterbury Tales".
@Anne I can tell you that Chapter 2 and the corresponding tale are easier to swallow. But I can't read the book for more than 10 pages without it putting me to sleep, at least not in bed... Read most of the Priest's tale in an ER waiting room, but other than that, it's the only reason I did not fall asleep through it.Just last night I had 5 pages to go on Hasaad's tale and I kept re reading the same paragraphs because my eyes were so heavy...
Having finished it (read it just before it was announced), the Priest's tale is still my joint favourite (Sol's, which I will say nothing of, is the other). Just the whole concept of it really gripped me - and the ending of the tale was just brilliant, especially with the added knowledge of waht he's carrying with him.
That said, whilst looking back I really loved it, it took me a while to get into reading it - it was the Priest's tale that finally persuaded me to devour it in one sitting.
That said, whilst looking back I really loved it, it took me a while to get into reading it - it was the Priest's tale that finally persuaded me to devour it in one sitting.
Well, I am surprised. This book is turning out to be a tour de force (which is french for tour of force) Space Opera. Which is strongly awesome. Flying trees, Priests, Wandering Jews, combat chicks from 1.3 G worlds all talking about why they have been chosen to go on a trip which only one of them will return. What could go wrong? Anyway, I am supposed to be doing housework, but i would rather sit here with my glass of beer and feel the wooden deckplates hum under my seat as we get closer to Hyperion.
Abraham...get the audiobook? That way you don't have to stop reading to do housework? ;)This one is a re-read forme, I originally read it about 7 years ago when it showed up ranked highly on some "Top 100" type list. I had forgotten how much each of the stories really sucks you in. I'm listening to the audiobooks this time around and am into the second tale.
Anne wrote: "I realized the author was depending on modifiers to make the environment interesting and that everything was in passive voice. The verbs were boring... was, is, said, etc."If you want to say that it's boring, doesn't use enough "action verbs", etc., feel free. Those are opinions and you're entitled to them, and to express them. But please do not say that things are written in the passive voice when they are not.
The passive voice is a specific grammatical construction in which:
1. What is normally the subject of a verb is either missing, or presented in a "by phrase";
2. The subject of the verb is: a) normally the direct object of the verb, b) normally the indirect object of the verb, or c) normally the object of a prepositional phrase;
3. The verb itself appears as either a past-participle or gerund-participle, and
4. The tense is carried by an added verb--typically the copula, but a number of other verbs can serve this purpose.
Passive voice serves many useful purposes, but no one would string sentence after sentence of them together. If they did, it would sound bizarre. The following paragraph is written entirely in the passive voice:
It was decided by John that the duvet needed washing. It was also decided by John that the duvet would be washed by Harriet. Washing duvets was hated by Harriet. Thus, the duvet was washed, but resentment was felt.
I'm pretty sure everyone would have noticed if Dan Simmons' writing was like the above.
The intro section of chapter 1 definitely got me hooked and I was a little irritated that I had to put it down and go back to work right before the priest's tale! I ended up reading the first two tales on the commuter van back home. When I finally had to put the book down, I was struck by how bland the world around me seemed, as if it was less real than the Hyperion I had just built in my head. Where are my tesla trees here??
terpkristin wrote: "Abraham...get the audiobook? That way you don't have to stop reading to do housework? ;)This one is a re-read forme, I originally read it about 7 years ago when it showed up ranked highly on some..."
Funny you should say that. Recently my new kindle has been well used, but I had this one on the shelf. If I do get another version of hte book then it will be the kindle version as flipping pages is hard.
I had a really hard time starting this chapter. All of the time debt and tree ships and such were a lot to adapt to coming into the book cold. However, once the Priest's story started taking off, I had a hard time putting the book down. I just finished chapter one, and I'm a little drained. I absolutely loved it, and am looking forward to the next tale.
I don't know if i am going to finish this book. Its just not interesting i've made it a little past the first chapter they are going through that island. Should i continue does it get more interesting?
A parasitologist friend of the family once said that if all the beings except parasites were taken away there would still be an outline of everything else made by the parasites left. :) Lovely thought. We think of ourselves as individuals but are really whole colonies of others. Think probiotics in the case of friendlies. Lots of unfriendlies in the world too.
I do agree with Anne that the Priest's tale does have a tendency to be expressed more in the passive voice, however...Since much of the tale is actually a reading of Paul Dure's diary, it makes sense within the context of the story. Simmons is trying to express specific voice and tone with each character. For most part, I'd say he succeeds just fine, but the point is definitely subjective and certainly debatable.
Anne wrote: "We think of ourselves as individuals but are really whole colonies of others."Yes, and our pets' feces is changing our personalities.
I sometimes want to know what parasite is making me act the way I do, and how to get rid of it.
I thought the ennui he/we felt at the beginning of the chapter provided a nice contrast with the emotional roller coaster that was to come (The terror of the Tesla forest! The joy at the stream! The paranoia after the murder!)
From wiki..."Some style sheets discourage use of passive voice,[2] while others encourage it.[3] Although some purveyors of usage advice, including George Orwell (see Politics and the English Language, 1946) and William Strunk, Jr. and E. B. White (see The Elements of Style, 1919) discourage the English passive, its usefulness is recognized in cases where the theme (receiver of the action) is more important than the agent.[4]"
Unfortunately in this book neither the theme nor the agents seem of any importance.
aldenoneil wrote: "Anne wrote: "We think of ourselves as individuals but are really whole colonies of others."Yes, and our pets' feces is changing our personalities.
I sometimes want to know what parasite is makin..."
Beware of what you delete -- LOL. Read Madeline L'Engel.
Was initially a bit concerned that the opening few pages were too hardcore Sci-fi but kept at it and am really enjoying. Off work sick and can't wait to get back to find out what the "Bikura" are all about. Am a long time reader of Sci-fi & Fantasy novels (32 years and ongoing) and this is up there with Clarke, Asimov, Bradbury + Dick! Also read The Magicians and loved it. Will follow discussions closely! MC
Anne wrote: "From wiki..."...the English passive, its usefulness is recognized in cases where the theme (receiver of the action) is more important than the agent.[4]"
Unfortunately in this book neither the theme nor the agents seem of any importance. "
What you cited above is indeed a *reason* to use the passive voice, but it is not what the passive voice IS. The passive voice is not a matter of usage, style, or literary theme. The word "theme" used in your quote is a grammar term--see thematic relation. It is not the literary term--see Literary theme). The passive voice is a matter of GRAMMAR.
Wikipedia:
"Passive voice is a grammatical voice common in many of the world's languages. Passive is used in a clause whose subject expresses the theme or patient of the main verb. That is, the subject undergoes an action or has its state changed.[1] A sentence whose theme is marked as grammatical subject is called a passive sentence. In contrast, a sentence in which the subject has the agent role is called an active sentence, and its verb is expressed in active voice. Many languages have both an active and a passive voice; this allows for greater flexibility in sentence construction, as either the semantic agent or patient may take the syntactic role of subject.[2]
Transforming an active verb into a passive verb is a valence-decreasing process ("detransitivizing process"), because it transforms transitive verbs into intransitive verbs.[3]"
Examples:
Active voice:
Somebody stole my car.
("Somebody" is the agent and subject, "stole" is a transitive verb in the preterite form taking "my car" as its object.)
Passive voice:
My car was stolen.
(There is no agent, the active voice object "my car" is put in the subject position, and "stolen" is an intransitive verb in the past-participle form.)
Active voice:
The cat ate the rat.
("The cat" is the agent and subject, "ate" is a transitive verb in the preterite form taking "the rat" as its object.)
Passive voice:
The rat was eaten by the cat. (The active voice object "the rat" is put in the place of the subject, "eaten" is an intransitive verb in the past-participle form, and the agent, "the cat", is placed in a by-phrase.)
Active voice:
People took all of the seats. ("People" is the subject and agent, "took" is a transitive verb in the preterite form taking "the seats" as its object.)
Passive voice:
The seats were all taken. (There is no agent, the active voice object, "the seats", is put in the place of the subject, and "taken" is an intransitive verb in the past-participle form.)
You can call his writing boring all you want--whether I disagree or not, I won't object. But don't say Dan Simmons is writing using the passive voice, when he is NOT.
Agree with most, chapter one was great! In fact, the story-telling doesn't seem to flow until we meet the Bikura... and really you don't get a good glimpse of the kind of book you're in for until you see (view spoiler)I really do feel sorry for anyone reading this book who is new to the genre. I think they will have a hard time getting past the prologue. it is just not a very good introduction to the book imho. - M.
I have to agree with Tora. There's definitely not a lot of passive voice going on in the first chapter.I had a hard time getting into the book at first. I thought the first part of the chapter was very tedious and almost boring. However, once we were introduced to the Bikura, the story started to get interesting. I loved the story from then on.
i just felt a bit boredish. This explains exactly how I feel about this book so far. I am not certain I will continue reading. This book was always one that I passed up before, now I know I made the right decision. Unfortunately, I got it in e-book form, so I can't trade it in at the local used book store.
Noew count all the instances of passive voice in Ch. 1.
@jack I am having a hard time with your comment... Lol Firefly was infinitely waaaaaaaaay more entertaining than Canterbury or Hyperion... Lol I mourn Firefly's untimely death :-(
Does anyone know why the Consul expected to find a second parasite on Father Hoyt? Is this something that will be explained in later chapters?
There is a detail in the Bikura story which only the Consul notices.* The reason for the second cruciform does become explicitly clear either by the end of this book or early on in the second, but the clues are in the text of Dure's story.(*Or at least, only the Consul cared about finding the truth at that moment. I can't remember off the top of my head if any of the others eventually say "Oh yes, I knew that all along.")
In Duré's notes there's mention of a Bikura who dies so horribly only the Cruciform is left. Duré then finds that another Bikura picked it up and now carries two cruciforms. Duré speculates that when this Bikura dies, two new ones will exist the resurrection chamber - each with their own cruciform.
Humm, all right. Will we have another Father Duré then, I wonder... :-)
Slargollo wrote: "Humm, all right. Do we will have another Father Duré then, I wonder... :-)"Maybe a neutered one.
I found chapter 1 to be somewhere between okay and fairly interesting. I didn't think it was anything to write home about but it didn't make me want to pull out my toenails either... My only complaint, aside from the inferred theological, is that I don't have enough time to read in long stretches. This is a pain, as it seems to take a while to get into the groove or the rhythm of the story. But I'm curious to see what happens next.
My initial skepticism ("Oh really? Heart of Darkness in space?") was quickly washed away by the intensity of the narration. I adore stories with an anthropology feel that explore the logic of mysterious and unknown peoples, so the Bikura were of great interest to me.
The descriptions of his fever, the thunderstorms and the basicila were very vivid and intense. So much so that I'd forgotten all about the Shrike and gasped when I realised just in time what could possibly come out of the Labyrinth.
The end was great and very shocking (again, no pun intended) - this is turning into a horror book!