Heart of the Matter
discussion
What do you think was the main problem the couple had in their marriage (besides the infidelity)?
Linda wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sorry Stephanie, I was just glancing through your last comments again and wonder about the "glaring inconsistencies." I don't get the point - Valerie said it was 2 days before Christ..."Linda, maybe I should have been more clear. The glaring inconsistencies I am referring to are about the EG's characterization and writing. It makes no sense that Charlie takes 10 OR 18 days to bring up the fact that he has not seen or heard from Nick. Does it? Not when he brings him up so frequently in prior conversations when Nick is not in their shared scenes. Not when a kid asks his mother "do you love him?". Not when he makes a big deal out of bringing Nick into the conversations with his mother throughout their scenes in the book. Not when Valerie says:
Her heart skips a beat. “Yes. That was Nick,” she says, the risk of what she is doing further crystallizing in her mind, along with the realization that, already, Nick has become Charlie’s first guess, even before Jason or her mother, just as he was the first one Charlie called from school when he couldn’t reach her.
How does a little boy go from one end of thinking about this father figure and their level of intimacy to having 10 or 18 days go by without seeing him and then not asking about him? Does that sound plausible to you?
That's all I mean. It's an inconsistency. For a fatherless boy who wished Nick was his father and breaks down, cry, and said as much, certainly he ought to have addressed Nick's absence before 10 or 18 days went by. You know how kids are, especially needy children like Charlie. (Needy as wanting a dad, not overall). It doesn't feel true to Charlie's character, but an engineered device, which is a flaw in the writing.
Elena wrote: "I would have to disagree with the statement that Tess and Valerie were as much to blame for the affair as Nick... Of course - Valerie slept with a married man - but she's not the married one - wh..."
YES Elena,
I am in agreement with you about the type of man Nick appeared to be for the majority of the book. And I also agree with you regarding the Tessa comments, about her various efforts to try.
Just to add to that first Antonio's dinner comment, he BLATANTLY lied to Tessa about why he could not make it home in time for dinner. When he 1st walks Valerie over there, he was not inclined to even sit and stay, it was the owner who asked him "Why not? Have some wine and bruchetta!". He could have easily put his family first and say no, I have a dinner date with my wife and children right now. THAT is what that selfish bastard was supposed to do. Instead he goes on to have the wine and bruchetta, and then orders fucking dinner, spending two hours with her, meanwhile his family is forgotten about. Then he has the nerve to go home and lie to Tessa's face. :
“I’m really sorry I’m late,” Nick says earnestly, kissing me hello, his lips landing to the left of my mouth. He tries again, our closed mouths meeting this time, and in this instant, I have the uneasy feeling that he wasn’t working when he sent me that final text message.
So I say, as offhandedly as I can, all accusations stripped from my voice and face, “What was the holdup?” “Oh, you know, the usual stuff,” he says, avoiding my eyes as he walks into the family room with his coat still on.
“Like what?” I say, following him, thinking of so many scenes in movies where the husband stops off for a drink before coming home, taking his usual spot at the bar, spilling his troubles to the bartender or anyone who will listen. Or worse, stewing alone, keeping them all bottled in...
...So I ask the question more concisely, going out on a limb this time. “How was Antonio’s?” I say, inhaling garlic again.
His silence is telling, and I look away before he can answer, glancing up at a cobweb in our chandelier, feeling somehow embarrassed for him—for both of us...
“Cut April out?” I ask.
“Yeah. You have better things to do with your time.” Like, being with my husband, I want to say, but restrain myself.
“Help who? Her negligent friend?” I shrug lamely as he continues, now on a roll. “They deserve to get their asses sued.”
“Do you think that’s a possibility?” I ask. “No way,” he says.
“Did the kid’s mother discuss it with you?” I ask, intrigued more by the interpersonal side of his work than the medicine.
“No,” he says curtly.
Lying bastard, ugh!
"My hate of Nick...was was based on all the little things that pointed out what an arrogant, self-centered and smug bastard he was..." YES, THAT!
I didn't really like him as a person, he was and ass. I generally don't like those kinds of men, coupled with the cheating and family neglect. NOPE.
Sarah wrote: "On people's comments about Nick, I am torn on who Nick TRULY is.While I can feel his remorse, at the end, and I do believe he loved Tessa and the kids, I just never got a sense of who he really w..."
This was an on key assessment, and thanks for bringing up the fact the he is in love with being a hero. You're right. AND for me, it's such a vain thing, to be a person like that. It's all about his ego....feeding his arrogance. But look how telling that is, considering how much he mocks the housewives in his community.
Linda wrote: "Elena wrote: "Sarah - i agree, we really didn't get enough information about him. The information that I got were bits and pieces and I seemed to stick to all the negative ones, so I hated him righ..."I apologize for the strong language I'm about to use. I mean no disrespect. Honest. I'm just worked up and passionate, and swear words make the emphasis I'm looking for. lol I feel like we're all at our monthly bookclub meeting. haha
Sorry Linda, I addressed your previous comments of blaming Tessa for not being interested in sex. What you said is BULLS#%T! For one, never does she says she wouldn't have sex with her husband or doesn't enjoy sex, only that over time since becoming a mother and housewife, she likes sleeping better: "Sometime in the middle of the night, I awaken to the solid warmth of Nick beside me. With my eyes still closed, I reach out and run my hand over his shoulder, then down his shirtless back. His skin smells of soap from his usual postwork shower, and I feel a wave of attraction that is quickly expelled by an even greater dose of fatigue. Par for the course since Ruby was born—and certainly since she was joined by Frank.I still love having sex with my husband, as much as ever once we’re under way. It just so happens that I now prefer sleep to most everything else—chocolate, red wine, HBO, and sex."
And I'd just like to point out that he doesn't reach back for her and initiates sex in the end...On the night of their anniversary.
I think what you've said is also grossly unfair considering you don't seem to consider how Nick feels about having sex with his own wife firsthand, because we readers can't. All we get are the following:
- A scene where he initiates makeup sex, and Tessa obliges him
- A scene where he tells her "You wanted another baby. Desperately. Enough that sex turns into a project. A nose-to-the-grindstone project". But Frankie is effing TWO YEARS OLD, what does that have to do with anything, Nick? I'm pretty sure they're not having that kind of sex any longer.
- A scene where he has sex with Valerie, and then subsequent scenes where he talks about wanting to have sex with her again (twice)
When else does he ever do anything to indicate he wants sex with his wife, sex period, in the whole book? During his various interactions with Tessa, he barely touches her with any kind of genuine affection. He barely pays attention to her. He's mostly home and disengaged, checking his black berry, making snide comments, and being sarcastic, rude, or dismissive.
IN FACT, he doesn't seem to seize the opportunities you claim Tessa doesn't provide him with. Case in point (and the example above):
That night, long after everyone has departed and the kids have gone to sleep, Nick and I are in our room, getting ready for bed...“And your mother managed to behave herself reasonably well.”Nick isn't even nice to his Wife. I wouldn't want to f-ck him either, if I were her. But that's not really the point. The point is that I think your making assumptions that don't hold up.
I smile, going to my own dresser and selecting a black nightgown. It is made of a cotton-spandex blend and is not sexy in an obvious way, but the cut is flattering and I’m hoping it might spark something between Nick and me. It’s not so much that I’m in the mood for sex as I am for the intimate aftermath...“No,” I say as unconvincingly as possible, wanting him to probe one step further, so I can tell him all the things I am feeling, the frustration that approaches anger. Anger that feels justified half the time, paranoid and selfish the rest.
Only he doesn’t probe, doesn’t give me the chance, doesn’t ask any questions at all. Instead, he simply says, “Good. Now, c’mon. Let’s get some rest.”
“Right. I know. You have surgery tomorrow,” I say. Nick glances over at me, nods, and barely smiles. Then he absentmindedly checks his BlackBerry one last time before turning off his bedside light, clearly as oblivious to my sarcasm as he is to my little black nightgown.
I will say that, if anything, the lack of sex is because Nick doesn't seem to like Tessa very much right now, which in turn diminishes his sexual desire for her. As he said in the very end "It’s not about sex. Except for maybe the feeling of being connected that sex can give you..." Sure, he was talking about what he was getting from Valerie with the sex, but it indicates what he wasn't getting from theirs. And that pisses me off about him too, bc he wasn't even trying to get that feeling with having sex with his wife.
Sarah wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "On the subject of Valerie, I just found her a complete embarrassment. It's one thing to have an affair, but to involve your child in in? When that child has been subject..."I BLAME Valerie too! Just want both you and Linda to know that. Perhaps take a peek at my initial posts here on the board. She gets no sympathy from me. She got exactly what she deserved.
Linda wrote: "Tessa said that Nick had cleaned the house but she thought that Carolyn had left the basket of clean laundry.Anyways, I agree that Nick was an idiot. In the end he apologized to Tessa, proclaime..."
But it's all speculation of who cleaned the house. We really don't know.
Also, Linda, he neglected his own children when he decided to use their time, however small, and give it to Charlie and Val. Period. He was not to be playing that role in Charlie's life. How dare he takes what he was already short changing his family on and then give it to someone else? Disrespectful!
Here's the thing. Say he only gets to spend time with his kids for 15 hours a week, and he knows, his wife knows, and the kids know, it's not enough, but he's the bread winner, so it must be this way for now. WHY THEN does he break their insufficient, but all he has 15 hours a week for them, down further by now spending 7.5 hours of it on Valerie and Charlie? I don't give a god damn how many only half hour visits they add up to. It's unacceptable when you are already have a deficit for time for your own family. I haven't a clue how you've come to excuse that or not see why it's a big deal.
It's insult to injury. AND TESSA SAYS THIS! When she replies to that email after kicked him out to tell him how Christmas eve would go, she indicated she feels the same way by saying he was fixing a hurt little boy and "There is no mistaking the little boy I am referring to, no mistaking the subtext: You put another child above your own. And because of that choice, our family is broken forever."
I didn't forgive him in the end. Only because I didn't feel he suffered enough. Being kicked out for a month for what he did to his marriage, Tessa's self-worth, confidence, and security, their children was not enough, IMO. I think he could have used another one, to humble his ass even further. But he'd be redeemable for me, if, in fact, we're ever provided a followup about them and how they worked it out-- if they end up working it out. I think they need marriage counseling. There are a lot of wounds there that will put a strain on the process of rebuilding trust in their marriage and restoring it to a better place.
Can I challenge you ladies to read another book where we get all three perspectives? I really find this topic to be a fascinating one to discuss. The book is The Affair. And it has a follow-up The Consequences.
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Tegan wrote: "I do think, Nick, sorta did forget about his 'love' for his family. What man abandons his own children ..."
When Tessa was talking to Valerie in the bookstore she mentioned that Valerie had known Nick for 3 months. That is correct, she had known him for three months -- KNOWN HIM -- not been with him. I know people that I haven't seen for years - but I still know them. The bookstore conversation took place in late January - Tessa's birthday.
We know her birthday was in January because Nick phoned her and left a message on her birthday - in January. Tessa said that when she listened to his birthday greeting she detected a note of "desperation" in his voice and he begged her to let him come home if only to have cake as a family with her and the kids.
Valerie pinned the birthday date down herself when she said that she hated January and really thought that she was never going to come out of her funk. She then said it was late in January and Beverly Turner (Summers mother) phoned her and invited Valerie and Charlie over the following Saturday for a play date.
This event occurred BEFORE the bookstore conversation which I already clarified happened ON Tessa's birthday. That makes Tessa's birthday very late in January. During the bookstore conversation Tessa mentions that Valerie had known Nick for three months - that means nothing, she still hadn't seen him since early December.
You mention that Tessa would know when her anniversary was. It stated in several places in the book that it was October. Charlie was hurt in October. Valerie met Nick in October. I don't see your point.
The dates are clear to me. He met Charlie and Valerie in October (mid to end of the month). He continued to see them through the month of November and saw them for FIVE days in December. That plainly works out to a little less than 2 months. I can't find any evidence in the book that disputes that.
You think he spent a lot more time with Valerie and Charlie through November then I do. EG only mentions 2 occasions when they had dinner together. We know he dropped in but some of those times Charlie was already in bed so he didn't see Nick any of those times. We know for sure that was the case the night before Thanksgiving when Nick came around when Jason was there.
I don't think he spent much time with them on weekends so therefore he would have been at home during those times.
He stayed with Valerie after Jason left the night before Thanksgiving and clearly was very late getting home that night. I agree with that.
He sent Valerie texts on Thanksgiving and she replied (Tessa read one of those replies) and he went out that evening with his phone to call her. We know that. BUT he didn't come to Valerie's house after that until the night before Charlie started back to school (the night he cook burgers for dinner) Valerie said herself that "she had spoken on the phone or by text many times since Thanksgiving but the night of the burgers was the first she had seen him since the night before Thanksgiving. I still don't think he spent all of his time with Valerie and Charlie during November but I guess we will have to agree to disagree about that.
You comment about Nick not making decisions about the kids with Tessa and I agree with you about that. I think Nick was an old fashioned kind of father that assumed that as long he was making the money that was his responsibility and Tessa's responsibility was to decide how to spend it - be that private schools or a new pair of socks.
I mentioned in an earlier reply that Nick was against Ruby going to a private school because it brought out in Tessa the thing that annoyed him the most about her - that she was doing it to impress her friends and neighbours. I think that is the case and Nick was very stubborn and once he got his back up about something it would be hard to convince him otherwise. That I think, was the case about private schools.
None of that means that he was a neglectful father though, and I don't think he was. I referred to that in previous reply's so not much point in hashing it all over again. The bottom line is that he adored his kids and they adored him. What more can we ask.
When Tessa was talking to Valerie in the bookstore she mentioned that Valerie had known Nick for 3 months. That is correct, she had known him for three months -- KNOWN HIM -- not been with him. I know people that I haven't seen for years - but I still know them. The bookstore conversation took place in late January - Tessa's birthday.
We know her birthday was in January because Nick phoned her and left a message on her birthday - in January. Tessa said that when she listened to his birthday greeting she detected a note of "desperation" in his voice and he begged her to let him come home if only to have cake as a family with her and the kids.
Valerie pinned the birthday date down herself when she said that she hated January and really thought that she was never going to come out of her funk. She then said it was late in January and Beverly Turner (Summers mother) phoned her and invited Valerie and Charlie over the following Saturday for a play date.
This event occurred BEFORE the bookstore conversation which I already clarified happened ON Tessa's birthday. That makes Tessa's birthday very late in January. During the bookstore conversation Tessa mentions that Valerie had known Nick for three months - that means nothing, she still hadn't seen him since early December.
You mention that Tessa would know when her anniversary was. It stated in several places in the book that it was October. Charlie was hurt in October. Valerie met Nick in October. I don't see your point.
The dates are clear to me. He met Charlie and Valerie in October (mid to end of the month). He continued to see them through the month of November and saw them for FIVE days in December. That plainly works out to a little less than 2 months. I can't find any evidence in the book that disputes that.
You think he spent a lot more time with Valerie and Charlie through November then I do. EG only mentions 2 occasions when they had dinner together. We know he dropped in but some of those times Charlie was already in bed so he didn't see Nick any of those times. We know for sure that was the case the night before Thanksgiving when Nick came around when Jason was there.
I don't think he spent much time with them on weekends so therefore he would have been at home during those times.
He stayed with Valerie after Jason left the night before Thanksgiving and clearly was very late getting home that night. I agree with that.
He sent Valerie texts on Thanksgiving and she replied (Tessa read one of those replies) and he went out that evening with his phone to call her. We know that. BUT he didn't come to Valerie's house after that until the night before Charlie started back to school (the night he cook burgers for dinner) Valerie said herself that "she had spoken on the phone or by text many times since Thanksgiving but the night of the burgers was the first she had seen him since the night before Thanksgiving. I still don't think he spent all of his time with Valerie and Charlie during November but I guess we will have to agree to disagree about that.
You comment about Nick not making decisions about the kids with Tessa and I agree with you about that. I think Nick was an old fashioned kind of father that assumed that as long he was making the money that was his responsibility and Tessa's responsibility was to decide how to spend it - be that private schools or a new pair of socks.
I mentioned in an earlier reply that Nick was against Ruby going to a private school because it brought out in Tessa the thing that annoyed him the most about her - that she was doing it to impress her friends and neighbours. I think that is the case and Nick was very stubborn and once he got his back up about something it would be hard to convince him otherwise. That I think, was the case about private schools.
None of that means that he was a neglectful father though, and I don't think he was. I referred to that in previous reply's so not much point in hashing it all over again. The bottom line is that he adored his kids and they adored him. What more can we ask.
"The bottom line is that he adored his kids and they adored him. What more can we ask."One thing I disagree with in your post. I don't see much evidence that he adored his kids (I mean, as any parent I'm SURE he loved his kids, he just didn't seem to show this adoration and dedication to his family in the book!)... In fact, he seemed to favor Charlie over them and had more patience for Charlie than his own kids, which to me was unacceptable! I don't agree with the whole "old-fashioned father" - that seems to be just an excuse-name for negligent father... And even though the author maybe doesn't go into all the specific examples of how he spent time with Charlie and Valerie - I think it is implied that he saw them more often than just those 2 times - at least that's how I understood it from EG's writing. In a quote that goes something like "As the days turn colder and shorter, they both continue to pretend...when Nick came over with videos and music for Charlie, wine and takeout from Antonio’s for them..." This sentence made it seem like a routine thing, not just 2 instances... Again - this is how I understood it...
Anyways, I think that I will just have to agree to disagree that, to me, Nick is not redeemable at the point when the book ended... There would still need to be A LOT of work and proving how he has changed to make me forgive him...
Elena wrote: ""The bottom line is that he adored his kids and they adored him. What more can we ask."One thing I disagree with in your post. I don't see much evidence that he adored his kids (I mean, as any pa..."
Elena, you've summed up my thoughts exactly. This is exactly what I was trying to expressed in my previous post, doing so by even bolding the precise words in the passages I quoted from the book. The way Valeria describes it makes it seem that his coming by and bringing stuff for Charlie, and dinner and wine for them to share, literally hiding in her house, came across as if it was a practiced ritual of theirs.
Elena wrote: ""The bottom line is that he adored his kids and they adored him. What more can we ask."
One thing I disagree with in your post. I don't see much evidence that he adored his kids (I mean, as any pa..."
Hi again. I agree that Nick could be "not a very nice person" I mentioned that several times in previous replies and Tessa said herself that he could be a "dirty fighter." Even so, I still believe he was a hands-on Dad. Again Tessa said herself that he was a great Dad.
He did neglect his own kids for Charlie. BUT again I repeat, that whole thing occurred during a 7 week time span. A drop in a bucket compared to a lifetime with Tessa and his kids. He was immediately attracted to Charlie for some reason AND he was having an affair with his mother. During the early days of an affair people (men and women alike) behave differently that they ever would in their normal everyday lives. Nick was obviously thinking with his c-ck not with his brain. This seems to be the norm for anyone I know who has had an affair. Valerie was doing the same thing although we would have to substitute c-ck for her with .......lol. (Sorry for being so gross but it's the truth).
All in all my point is this. During the Valerie/Charlie days Nick obviously was behaving differently than he normally would and at the end of the story he is so obviously ashamed of his behavour during that time that he seems almost not to be able to believe himself that he had been capable of doing such a thing.
Again - I will give Nick a little credit (as compared to most reviewers who disagree with me) He made a terrible mistake, he knows it and I truly don't think he would ever do it again.
As for the hands-on-Dad thing. I still think he was (maybe it's because my Dad wasn't) He clearly loved me and my family but in his mind his responsibility was to provide for us, it was our Mother's job to care for and nurture us. I love my Dad as much as anyone possibly could and I really see that his way was more the norm than Fathers like Nick who would cook for his kids, bath them and who knows what else.
When Tessa sent her terse e-mail to Nick regarding him and his kids on Christmas Eve, she instructed him to feed the kids, bath them and have them in their Christmas pyjamas but don't put them to bed. A lot of the Fathers I have know and still know today would be completely lost given those instructions. It would be something they probably had never done before. Not so for Nick. I'm willing to bet that when Tessa got home on Christmas Eve the kids were shiny clean in their Christmas pyjamas having been well fed and probably had a story read to them and the house would be completely tidied. Not a bad Dad in my opinion.
One thing I disagree with in your post. I don't see much evidence that he adored his kids (I mean, as any pa..."
Hi again. I agree that Nick could be "not a very nice person" I mentioned that several times in previous replies and Tessa said herself that he could be a "dirty fighter." Even so, I still believe he was a hands-on Dad. Again Tessa said herself that he was a great Dad.
He did neglect his own kids for Charlie. BUT again I repeat, that whole thing occurred during a 7 week time span. A drop in a bucket compared to a lifetime with Tessa and his kids. He was immediately attracted to Charlie for some reason AND he was having an affair with his mother. During the early days of an affair people (men and women alike) behave differently that they ever would in their normal everyday lives. Nick was obviously thinking with his c-ck not with his brain. This seems to be the norm for anyone I know who has had an affair. Valerie was doing the same thing although we would have to substitute c-ck for her with .......lol. (Sorry for being so gross but it's the truth).
All in all my point is this. During the Valerie/Charlie days Nick obviously was behaving differently than he normally would and at the end of the story he is so obviously ashamed of his behavour during that time that he seems almost not to be able to believe himself that he had been capable of doing such a thing.
Again - I will give Nick a little credit (as compared to most reviewers who disagree with me) He made a terrible mistake, he knows it and I truly don't think he would ever do it again.
As for the hands-on-Dad thing. I still think he was (maybe it's because my Dad wasn't) He clearly loved me and my family but in his mind his responsibility was to provide for us, it was our Mother's job to care for and nurture us. I love my Dad as much as anyone possibly could and I really see that his way was more the norm than Fathers like Nick who would cook for his kids, bath them and who knows what else.
When Tessa sent her terse e-mail to Nick regarding him and his kids on Christmas Eve, she instructed him to feed the kids, bath them and have them in their Christmas pyjamas but don't put them to bed. A lot of the Fathers I have know and still know today would be completely lost given those instructions. It would be something they probably had never done before. Not so for Nick. I'm willing to bet that when Tessa got home on Christmas Eve the kids were shiny clean in their Christmas pyjamas having been well fed and probably had a story read to them and the house would be completely tidied. Not a bad Dad in my opinion.
Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Tegan wrote: "I do think, Nick, sorta did forget about his 'love' for his family. What man abandon..."You know, I never disputed Tessa birthday being in late January. I DO know all the information you've mentioned. I don't think you read what I wrote the way I intended it, because I did say that I caught the error in the end after I originally posted it, subsequently amended it, and that you were CORRECT! I also explained where I got the numbers from and why I GOT confused and took it as an inconsistency. BUT YES, again, you are correct about how long Val has known him, when Charlie's accident happens (Oct 10th), and about the 6-week affair! It starts on Oct 27th (Antonio's) and technically ends on Dec 15th (Dumping/confession), though they had not seen each other since late night Dec 5th (or early morning on the 6th).
Ok we disagree about the amount of time Nick spends with Valerie and Charlie. You mentioned that EG only mentions two occasions of him dropping by Valerie's home for dinner, yet, you don't acknowledge Valerie's OWN WORDS (first 2pages of Val's 11th chapter) in the passage both myself, and now Elena has posted here indicating what comes across as a ritual of meeting times spent together on more than one occasion.
Ok, just tell me something, Linda, what are the TWO instances EG mentions them having dinner? Are they not when Nick makes burgers from them the night before Charlie's first day back to school and when Nick brings Antonio's over to Valerie, for just the two of them, on the same night he has sex with her? Because Valerie's passage "As the days turn colder and shorter, they both continue to pretend...when Nick came over with videos and music for Charlie, wine and takeout from Antonio’s for them..." appears in Valarie's 11th chapter. And their sex? Yeah, that happens in her 15th. So I ask you, how can we blatantly look over what Valerie says about their interaction in this analysis? It's either a writing issue, or perhaps your not looking at everything?
How it came across to me was that almost every day that Nick worked since their affair began, which I start counting on when he takes Val to Antonio's (Oct 6th), he came home late because of Valerie, whether Charlie was awake or not; and remember, Charlie was initially the excuse in dropping by. I also think Charlie would have been awake if some of those days were days when he made plans to be home in time to tuck in or spend a little time with his own children, but ended up not being able to, telling Tessa he would be home late...again. The amount of days it can be speculated Nick saw them, excluding the ones we know of is 21.
And regarding Valerie not seeing him since the night before Thanksgiving (Weds, Nov 26th), ok, it was 3 days in between: (Thrs, Fri, and Sat). No big deal.
We know some of this because of Tessa: "I tell myself that I’m being ridiculous, that I do not want to be a snooping, paranoid wife, that I have no reason to be suspicious. Then I hear the little voice in my head say, No reason other than his withdrawn behavior, his long hours, our lack of intimacy. I shake my head, dispelling the doubts. Nick isn’t perfect, but he is not a liar. He is not a cheater." (Thanksgiving)
And additionally:
“I think Nick might be having an affair,” I tell Cate the next day, then I finally get a hold of her after four tries...“Or at least contemplating one.”...I share with her all my evidence—the late nights at the office, the text message, and the cherry Coke excursion that lasted close to thirty-eight minutes."
I think both Elena and I perceived that EG wrote inferences she wanted readers to make about Nick purposefully finding reasons and choosing to appear in Valerie's and Charalie's family dynamic over being a part of his own. Sort of when Tessa mentions that guilt she reads on his face, the one that signifies the guilt of wishing he were some place else. It's starts there.
Why don't you think he spent much time with them on the weekends? Also, what constitutes much time? I only ask because, if this man can leave during a holiday to go talk on the phone to his mistress under the guise of a Cherry Coke run for 40 minutes, why can't he do the same using other excuses during the weekend to actually see her? Or choose to flat out lie and say he has to work (cheaters do it all the time, use work as an excuse)? By my count, Nick had a total of 6 Saturdays and Sundays he could have come by, not including Burger Sunday, which makes 7 days. He also had 14 weekdays where he could have stopped by as well, and seemingly did. And while I don't like making assumptions about what wasn't explicitly or at least partially alluded to in a book, I think in this case, it's a strong possibility that he did drop in" on those 6 and 14 days respectively. I base this on both Tessa's complaints and Valerie's thoughts
Anyway, I asked you so many other questions regarding your thoughts. I do hope you intend on getting around to answering them.
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Tegan wrote: "I do think, Nick, sorta did forget about his 'love' for his family. What man abandons his own children ..."
I apologize for not GETTING AROUND TO ANSWERING YOU SOONER, but I just saw your reply a few minutes ago...so here goes...my reply.
I think I am becoming confused because of all of the replies going back and forth so it looks like I am responding to 2 of yours at the same time.
You ask me why I think that Tessa wasn't much interested in sex anymore and then post the exact paragraph that made me think so. She preferred sleep to sex. When she began to suspect Nick was having an affair she wanted him again but he wasn't interested at that time. I seem to remember another reference when Tessa is in bed when Nick comes home late smelling of his post surgical shower. She starts to feel an attraction to him at that time but then says "sleep won out again." I believe there were other references but I can't bring all of them to mind right now.
You ask me what the two instances are that they had dinner together in Valerie's house. I was answering about the instances in NOVEMBER. (1)- He came over early in November with music for Charlie and take-out and wine from Antonio's for her and Nick. (2) - The night before Charlie started to school Nick dropped by and cooked burgers for them. That night would be November 31st because Charlie started back to school December 1st. Those are the only two instances that EG mentions so I have no way of knowing about any other.
I wan't talking about DECEMBER then, but on the 5th of December they had Antonio's take-out again. This is the night they had sex. Valerie had set the scene for sex perfectly, dinner in the dining room, candle light, soft music, wine, curtains drawn.
You have mentioned the scene more than once when Valerie says "they continue to pretend and are hiding in Valerie's house". I have never disputed that. They CAN only see each other in Valerie's house. A little awkward to wonder around town with your adulterous girl friend on your arm. The only thing I say is that I personally don't think that statement has ANYTHING to do with how OFTEN they were together in Valerie's house and we differ on our opinions about that. The point is they were together in her house, they did sleep together, Nick dumped her and now it is up to Tessa to decide what happens next.
By the way, Nick didn't go over to Valerie's house on Thanksgiving, he went out in the car under the guise of buying Cherry coke with his phone and he called her at 7 o'clock when she said in her text (the one that Tessa read) is the time that Valerie said she would be home.
After the night before Thanksgiving when Nick dropped by when Jason was there is the last time she SAW Nick until the night before Charlie started back to school. Valerie said that herself. "Although they had spoken and text many times since the night before Thanksgiving, the night he came in before Charlie went back to school and cooked burgers is the first she actually saw him since the night before Thanksgiving"." She goes on to say that she is so attracted to him that her knees are weak (don't quote me on that as I am writing from memory so it won't be her exact words).
I don't mean to be annoying to you, I just have my own point of view. We only know what EG wants us to know, everything else is left up to us to decide for ourselves. My take is obviously different from yours and I expect both of our opinions will be different than others. It's just fun to discuss various opinions on this story. That is all I am doing.
I apologize for not GETTING AROUND TO ANSWERING YOU SOONER, but I just saw your reply a few minutes ago...so here goes...my reply.
I think I am becoming confused because of all of the replies going back and forth so it looks like I am responding to 2 of yours at the same time.
You ask me why I think that Tessa wasn't much interested in sex anymore and then post the exact paragraph that made me think so. She preferred sleep to sex. When she began to suspect Nick was having an affair she wanted him again but he wasn't interested at that time. I seem to remember another reference when Tessa is in bed when Nick comes home late smelling of his post surgical shower. She starts to feel an attraction to him at that time but then says "sleep won out again." I believe there were other references but I can't bring all of them to mind right now.
You ask me what the two instances are that they had dinner together in Valerie's house. I was answering about the instances in NOVEMBER. (1)- He came over early in November with music for Charlie and take-out and wine from Antonio's for her and Nick. (2) - The night before Charlie started to school Nick dropped by and cooked burgers for them. That night would be November 31st because Charlie started back to school December 1st. Those are the only two instances that EG mentions so I have no way of knowing about any other.
I wan't talking about DECEMBER then, but on the 5th of December they had Antonio's take-out again. This is the night they had sex. Valerie had set the scene for sex perfectly, dinner in the dining room, candle light, soft music, wine, curtains drawn.
You have mentioned the scene more than once when Valerie says "they continue to pretend and are hiding in Valerie's house". I have never disputed that. They CAN only see each other in Valerie's house. A little awkward to wonder around town with your adulterous girl friend on your arm. The only thing I say is that I personally don't think that statement has ANYTHING to do with how OFTEN they were together in Valerie's house and we differ on our opinions about that. The point is they were together in her house, they did sleep together, Nick dumped her and now it is up to Tessa to decide what happens next.
By the way, Nick didn't go over to Valerie's house on Thanksgiving, he went out in the car under the guise of buying Cherry coke with his phone and he called her at 7 o'clock when she said in her text (the one that Tessa read) is the time that Valerie said she would be home.
After the night before Thanksgiving when Nick dropped by when Jason was there is the last time she SAW Nick until the night before Charlie started back to school. Valerie said that herself. "Although they had spoken and text many times since the night before Thanksgiving, the night he came in before Charlie went back to school and cooked burgers is the first she actually saw him since the night before Thanksgiving"." She goes on to say that she is so attracted to him that her knees are weak (don't quote me on that as I am writing from memory so it won't be her exact words).
I don't mean to be annoying to you, I just have my own point of view. We only know what EG wants us to know, everything else is left up to us to decide for ourselves. My take is obviously different from yours and I expect both of our opinions will be different than others. It's just fun to discuss various opinions on this story. That is all I am doing.
Linda - "My take is obviously different from yours and I expect both of our opinions will be different than others. It's just fun to discuss various opinions on this story. That is all I am doing. " - I agree!
Stephanie - I'm sure there are no wrong or right answers here, we all agree on some points, disagree on other points. Yes, while quotes from the book lead me to believe something happened in a certain way, maybe someone else interprets things differently... There is nothing to prove - everyone has their own opinions and views...
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Elena wrote: "Sarah - i agree, we really didn't get enough information about him. The information that I got were bits and pieces and I seemed to stick to all the negative ones, so I ..."
Sorry again Stephanie but I only saw this reply now. I don't know what is happening that I am missing some of them. I have answered a lot of questions you are asking in a previous reply a little while ago.
We sure do seem to disagree about a lot of things. I think a lot of your opinions are taken during the 7 weeks of Nicks affair when he was obviously behaving very badly. During that time he didn't want Tessa and he neglected his own children for Charlie. No doubt about it and I am not disputing that in the slightest.
I prefer to see the whole picture. I know that Nick was in a downward plunge with his feelings for Tessa BEFORE the affair and then he met Valerie and lost a lot of interest in things at home. Again I refer to statements that Tessa made in that she had changed and concentrated on things that don't really matter when she should have been concentrating on important things like her marriage.
I see their marital problems as BOTH Tessa and Nicks fault. It seems to me that you see them only as NICKS.
I may be a little harder on Tessa than you because I personally have a lot of resentment against people who live their lives with the sole purpose of impressing others, be they friend, neighbours or whoever. To me that is what Tessa was doing and Nick obviously hated that kind of thing as well.
He had built up such a resentment for Tessa's friends and yes, even for Tessa herself because of the shallow life they all led. Tessa herself started to realize this.
The question is - will they be able to get past their differences in the future? Tessa of course has so much more to forgive because of Nicks affair. Can she do it? EG left that decision up to us.
I think there is a good chance of happiness for Nick and Tessa again because I really do believe they love each other. No life runs smoothly and Nick and Tessa are obviously opposites in character, but as long as love is there it can work wonders.
Sorry again Stephanie but I only saw this reply now. I don't know what is happening that I am missing some of them. I have answered a lot of questions you are asking in a previous reply a little while ago.
We sure do seem to disagree about a lot of things. I think a lot of your opinions are taken during the 7 weeks of Nicks affair when he was obviously behaving very badly. During that time he didn't want Tessa and he neglected his own children for Charlie. No doubt about it and I am not disputing that in the slightest.
I prefer to see the whole picture. I know that Nick was in a downward plunge with his feelings for Tessa BEFORE the affair and then he met Valerie and lost a lot of interest in things at home. Again I refer to statements that Tessa made in that she had changed and concentrated on things that don't really matter when she should have been concentrating on important things like her marriage.
I see their marital problems as BOTH Tessa and Nicks fault. It seems to me that you see them only as NICKS.
I may be a little harder on Tessa than you because I personally have a lot of resentment against people who live their lives with the sole purpose of impressing others, be they friend, neighbours or whoever. To me that is what Tessa was doing and Nick obviously hated that kind of thing as well.
He had built up such a resentment for Tessa's friends and yes, even for Tessa herself because of the shallow life they all led. Tessa herself started to realize this.
The question is - will they be able to get past their differences in the future? Tessa of course has so much more to forgive because of Nicks affair. Can she do it? EG left that decision up to us.
I think there is a good chance of happiness for Nick and Tessa again because I really do believe they love each other. No life runs smoothly and Nick and Tessa are obviously opposites in character, but as long as love is there it can work wonders.
Stephanie and Elena - I think I have figured out the problem. I have been reading some of your replies on my I-phone and then when I go to my computer those replies have been marked "read." I only scan over them very quickly on my phone so I am only seeing many of them now for the first time.
I will take some time and go over them all again. In the meantime there are obviously a lot I haven't replied to, so bear with me and I will get to them as soon as I can. You will find the one's I have replied to very jumbled because I am sometimes replying to a different one than the one you just sent. Sorry.
I will take some time and go over them all again. In the meantime there are obviously a lot I haven't replied to, so bear with me and I will get to them as soon as I can. You will find the one's I have replied to very jumbled because I am sometimes replying to a different one than the one you just sent. Sorry.
I think the moral of the story or what I took away was , you don't know what you have until you loose it. Nick found that out the hard way.
Tegan wrote: "I think the moral of the story or what I took away was , you don't know what you have until you loose it. Nick found that out the hard way."
Tegan wrote: "I think the moral of the story or what I took away was , you don't know what you have until you loose it. Nick found that out the hard way."
Oh Tegan! Thank you, I was wondering where you were because we both seem to have very similar opinions on this story.
Your reply says it all - YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'VE GOT UNTIL YOU LOOSE IT!!!
That's Nick exactly. He realizes now that all he ever wanted was Tessa, Ruby and Frankie. That is why he is so remorseful. All of the petty little things both he and Tessa let bother them are nothing when you look at the whole picture. Put any two people together and they will eventually start to rub each other the wrong was - NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY LOVE EACH OTHER. That is what has happened her.
Will Tessa be able to forgive Nick - yes I think so because she loves him.
Tegan wrote: "I think the moral of the story or what I took away was , you don't know what you have until you loose it. Nick found that out the hard way."
Oh Tegan! Thank you, I was wondering where you were because we both seem to have very similar opinions on this story.
Your reply says it all - YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'VE GOT UNTIL YOU LOOSE IT!!!
That's Nick exactly. He realizes now that all he ever wanted was Tessa, Ruby and Frankie. That is why he is so remorseful. All of the petty little things both he and Tessa let bother them are nothing when you look at the whole picture. Put any two people together and they will eventually start to rub each other the wrong was - NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY LOVE EACH OTHER. That is what has happened her.
Will Tessa be able to forgive Nick - yes I think so because she loves him.
Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "I think the moral of the story or what I took away was , you don't know what you have until you loose it. Nick found that out the hard way."Tegan wrote: "I think the moral of the st..."
Happy to help Linda :)
I think Tessa will be able to forgive Nick...however, I think moving forward Nick will love Tessa more, than Tessa loves Nick.Not sure if that makes sense to anyone...just what I believe.
I so agree the small little things that Nick did during his affair ( which were horrible), will only make Nick a better husband and father, having almost lost it all.
And to people who believe Nick really loved Valerie, if he really loved her, don't you think he would have contacted her once Tessa threw him out? I think he was awakened to the fact, that it Was Tessa who he loved.
Stephanie: In one of your reviews, I'm not sure which it was at this point you ask why I think that Tessa was no longer very interest in sex.
I cited a couple of instances (your posted comment directly from the book as one). I have since recalled another.
I am just going by memory here so forgive me if I don't have the wording exact. At one point Tessa is reflecting back about Nick and her early days together. She says "in the early days when everything comes so easily and we had sex 2 and often 3 times in one night, something I haven't felt like doing in a very long time."
In that statement Tessa voiced clearly that her interest in sex had diminished.
I still maintain that Tessa played a part in Nick's looking to another woman for what he wasn't getting at home. Not that I agree at all with Nicks decision but there it is - that's what Tessa said.
I cited a couple of instances (your posted comment directly from the book as one). I have since recalled another.
I am just going by memory here so forgive me if I don't have the wording exact. At one point Tessa is reflecting back about Nick and her early days together. She says "in the early days when everything comes so easily and we had sex 2 and often 3 times in one night, something I haven't felt like doing in a very long time."
In that statement Tessa voiced clearly that her interest in sex had diminished.
I still maintain that Tessa played a part in Nick's looking to another woman for what he wasn't getting at home. Not that I agree at all with Nicks decision but there it is - that's what Tessa said.
Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 loved each other.
Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 loved each other."
Tagan, Do you think that Nick would have gone back to Tessa if they hadn't had kids?
Tagan, Do you think that Nick would have gone back to Tessa if they hadn't had kids?
Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 loved each othe..."Very good question, and I struggle with that. I think yes, he would have because I truly believe Nick did love Tessa and not Valerie. I feel if he would have left Tessa, for Valerie, he would have ended up regretting it. You???
Tegan wrote: "Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 l..."
Actually I don't think that Nick would have gone back to Tessa AS SOON AS HE DID.
He wasn't ready to give Valerie up when Tessa came home early from New York. He was enjoying the thrill of new romance and THOUGHT he loved Valerie.
However as a little more time went by and he began to see the real Valerie -
the pathetic, self pitying Valerie, he would have tired of her very quickly and wanted nothing more than to be back home with Tessa (the woman he really loved.)
Now in answer to your question (do I think that Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids). YES, I really think Tessa would have taken Nick back even if they didn't have kids. She loved him! No question about it as far as I can see.
Actually I don't think that Nick would have gone back to Tessa AS SOON AS HE DID.
He wasn't ready to give Valerie up when Tessa came home early from New York. He was enjoying the thrill of new romance and THOUGHT he loved Valerie.
However as a little more time went by and he began to see the real Valerie -
the pathetic, self pitying Valerie, he would have tired of her very quickly and wanted nothing more than to be back home with Tessa (the woman he really loved.)
Now in answer to your question (do I think that Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids). YES, I really think Tessa would have taken Nick back even if they didn't have kids. She loved him! No question about it as far as I can see.
Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I bel..."I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
I see your point on Nick....and I agree that the thrill of new romance fades...which is what would have happened to Nick and valerie. He never would have lasted with Valerie, way too needy, insecure, pathetic. Nick would have seen that. Plus he didn't love her, he only THOUGHT he did.
On tessa, I disagree with you. While she may have loved him, with no children being involved, I believe her pride would have prevented her from taking him back. I believe she would have found a new man, no doubt for me in that one....
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Stephanie wrote: "Tegan wrote: "I do think, Nick, sorta did forget about his 'love' for his family. What man abandons his own children ..."
Stephanie: this in response to the reply you left where you marked it as - part 2
I really don't know how to answer this reply of yours. You are digging very deeply into the lives and feelings of women I don't even know. I do know Nick and Tessa though and I (unlike you) tend to keep it simple and look at the bottom line.
I've mentioned more than once that Nick could be very unlikeable. He spent all day at the hospital dealing with frightened children. He had a wonderful rapport with these children and their parents and as Valerie described him - "he is exceptional."
When he gets home to Tessa and the daily problems of most homes with young children he looses his patience quickly and takes it out on Tessa. I think this happens in a lot of homes - home is were you can let loose and let your guard down. In Nicks position he could never do that at the hospital. Tessa was the one who had to put up with his tantrums.
Nick had an intense dislike of shallow women who only knew how to spend money and have a good time (April and Romy). He saw Tessa begin to take on some of their tendencies and he didn't like it.
He was furious when April and Romy came into the hospital with a basket for Valerie. I really don't think that there was much wrong with what they did (other than the wine of course) but because of Nicks strong dislike of these two he got his back up instantly. Valerie didn't like these 2 women either and this gave Nick another reason to see Valerie as the saint (SHE WASN'T!!) But at that point he was growing very fond of Valerie and he was instantly on her side.
Meanwhile Tessa is at home and in a terrible position because she has "no one" on her side. She suspects Nick is having an affair, he won't discuss it with her and Cate is the only one she has to turn to. I feel intense pity for Tessa during those days.
In the end though as we all know Nick realizes that it is Tessa that he really loves etc. etc. etc. Valerie is the one that is left out in the cold (as she should be).
Stephanie: this in response to the reply you left where you marked it as - part 2
I really don't know how to answer this reply of yours. You are digging very deeply into the lives and feelings of women I don't even know. I do know Nick and Tessa though and I (unlike you) tend to keep it simple and look at the bottom line.
I've mentioned more than once that Nick could be very unlikeable. He spent all day at the hospital dealing with frightened children. He had a wonderful rapport with these children and their parents and as Valerie described him - "he is exceptional."
When he gets home to Tessa and the daily problems of most homes with young children he looses his patience quickly and takes it out on Tessa. I think this happens in a lot of homes - home is were you can let loose and let your guard down. In Nicks position he could never do that at the hospital. Tessa was the one who had to put up with his tantrums.
Nick had an intense dislike of shallow women who only knew how to spend money and have a good time (April and Romy). He saw Tessa begin to take on some of their tendencies and he didn't like it.
He was furious when April and Romy came into the hospital with a basket for Valerie. I really don't think that there was much wrong with what they did (other than the wine of course) but because of Nicks strong dislike of these two he got his back up instantly. Valerie didn't like these 2 women either and this gave Nick another reason to see Valerie as the saint (SHE WASN'T!!) But at that point he was growing very fond of Valerie and he was instantly on her side.
Meanwhile Tessa is at home and in a terrible position because she has "no one" on her side. She suspects Nick is having an affair, he won't discuss it with her and Cate is the only one she has to turn to. I feel intense pity for Tessa during those days.
In the end though as we all know Nick realizes that it is Tessa that he really loves etc. etc. etc. Valerie is the one that is left out in the cold (as she should be).
OK Stephanie - this is in reply to your reply marked -part 1
There are so many things thrown in here that I am going to have a hard time keeping everything straight. You mention the 10 or 18 days since Charlie saw Nick. You think that I care but it's the exact opposite. You are the one who was trying to tell me that Nick saw Valerie and Charlie a lot more in November than I think they saw each other. Several of your reply's are mainly about the NUMEROUS times Nick goes over to Valerie's house. I've told you before that in my opinion the number of times make no difference. They spent a total of 7 weeks together. You argued through-out several replies that I was wrong about the 7 weeks but then you came to realize that it really was 7 weeks. It doesn't matter in the slightest if Charlie saw Nick 10 days ago or 18 days ago. I still don't think he saw Nick nearly as often in November as your do and an 18 day stretch without Charlie noticing his absence seems to indicate that maybe I am right. (about the 18 rather than 10 days I did the same as you - I caught an error I had made and corrected it).
OK - on to the next. It's about my comment about Nick and his children. I said that he went to school with Ruby in the morning of Halloween and took numerous pictures of her in her costume. You say "what about Frankie" If you read my reply again you will see that I said "he went to school and then came home and spent time with Frankie before he went to work". That is pretty much Tessa's exact words when she describes Halloween morning.
We have already covered the next topic (that Valerie had known Nick for 3 months) in another review. But here goes again - Valerie HAD KNOWN NICK for 3 months BUT she was only with him for less than two months. I went on the say that I know many people and some of them I haven't seen in years but I still KNOW them. That is what Tessa meant.
The next paragraph we seem to agree about in part. Near the end you wonder how Valerie could like a man like Nick who treated his children so badly. I have already mentioned this before but I will again. In my opinion he didn't neglect his children. In 7 weeks Ruby and Frankie didn't really realize anything was different. Because of Nick's demanding and often irregular hours at the hospital, he has always been away from home a lot and they are used to that. During the affair he was away even more but according to Tessa - the kids didn't notice. I know that he came home later on some of the days of the affair and I assume two young children would already be in bed. I don't think Nick neglected them all that much.
There are two occasions that I dislike intensely however. One is when he called Tessa and said he couldn't be home for trick-or-treating and then he goes to a Halloween party with Charlie, Valerie, Jason and Valerie's mother. That was a betrayal all right but I see it as more of a betrayal of Tessa rather than of the children.
The other incident occurred the night before Charlie went back to school (Nov 31) when Nick went to Valerie's house, stayed and cooked burgers and then when he was leaving he gave a coin he had since he himself was a child - to Charlie. I find that unforgivable. That coin should have gone to one of Nicks own children. I don't know if you saw another reply I made in that I said that during the affair Nick was thinking with his c-ck rather than with his brain. The coin incident is a prime example of that. Nick would never have given that coin away if he had been thinking clearly.
Another comment you make is really incidental and actually a little funny. Tessa says that when Dex defers to Rachel about important decisions her mother doesn't mind but she does dislike when Nick defers to Tessa. Of course she does - DEX IF HER SON. Mothers always side with their children and Tessa's mother sided with her son DEX and her daughter TESSA. Much the same with most parents I think. Certainly that way with me.
Reading your last few comments about Nick's involvement with his children - you ask do I have children - yes and my husband was one of the most common kind - he believed that his responsibility was to provide for our children and my job was to care for them and I was usually left to make most of the decisions. Again I mentioned I was raised similarly. My dad was the bread winner and most other things were left to my mother. That was the case in ALL of my friend's homes as I was growing up.
Far too much emphasis is placed on Nick's involvement with his children. If there was a serious problem - one of them got hurt, were bullied etc. you can bet Nick would be the first one there for his kids. Ruby and Frankie were healthy and happy. They had a loving mother and father and I can't see where anything about that past 7 weeks will scar them in any way.
There are so many things thrown in here that I am going to have a hard time keeping everything straight. You mention the 10 or 18 days since Charlie saw Nick. You think that I care but it's the exact opposite. You are the one who was trying to tell me that Nick saw Valerie and Charlie a lot more in November than I think they saw each other. Several of your reply's are mainly about the NUMEROUS times Nick goes over to Valerie's house. I've told you before that in my opinion the number of times make no difference. They spent a total of 7 weeks together. You argued through-out several replies that I was wrong about the 7 weeks but then you came to realize that it really was 7 weeks. It doesn't matter in the slightest if Charlie saw Nick 10 days ago or 18 days ago. I still don't think he saw Nick nearly as often in November as your do and an 18 day stretch without Charlie noticing his absence seems to indicate that maybe I am right. (about the 18 rather than 10 days I did the same as you - I caught an error I had made and corrected it).
OK - on to the next. It's about my comment about Nick and his children. I said that he went to school with Ruby in the morning of Halloween and took numerous pictures of her in her costume. You say "what about Frankie" If you read my reply again you will see that I said "he went to school and then came home and spent time with Frankie before he went to work". That is pretty much Tessa's exact words when she describes Halloween morning.
We have already covered the next topic (that Valerie had known Nick for 3 months) in another review. But here goes again - Valerie HAD KNOWN NICK for 3 months BUT she was only with him for less than two months. I went on the say that I know many people and some of them I haven't seen in years but I still KNOW them. That is what Tessa meant.
The next paragraph we seem to agree about in part. Near the end you wonder how Valerie could like a man like Nick who treated his children so badly. I have already mentioned this before but I will again. In my opinion he didn't neglect his children. In 7 weeks Ruby and Frankie didn't really realize anything was different. Because of Nick's demanding and often irregular hours at the hospital, he has always been away from home a lot and they are used to that. During the affair he was away even more but according to Tessa - the kids didn't notice. I know that he came home later on some of the days of the affair and I assume two young children would already be in bed. I don't think Nick neglected them all that much.
There are two occasions that I dislike intensely however. One is when he called Tessa and said he couldn't be home for trick-or-treating and then he goes to a Halloween party with Charlie, Valerie, Jason and Valerie's mother. That was a betrayal all right but I see it as more of a betrayal of Tessa rather than of the children.
The other incident occurred the night before Charlie went back to school (Nov 31) when Nick went to Valerie's house, stayed and cooked burgers and then when he was leaving he gave a coin he had since he himself was a child - to Charlie. I find that unforgivable. That coin should have gone to one of Nicks own children. I don't know if you saw another reply I made in that I said that during the affair Nick was thinking with his c-ck rather than with his brain. The coin incident is a prime example of that. Nick would never have given that coin away if he had been thinking clearly.
Another comment you make is really incidental and actually a little funny. Tessa says that when Dex defers to Rachel about important decisions her mother doesn't mind but she does dislike when Nick defers to Tessa. Of course she does - DEX IF HER SON. Mothers always side with their children and Tessa's mother sided with her son DEX and her daughter TESSA. Much the same with most parents I think. Certainly that way with me.
Reading your last few comments about Nick's involvement with his children - you ask do I have children - yes and my husband was one of the most common kind - he believed that his responsibility was to provide for our children and my job was to care for them and I was usually left to make most of the decisions. Again I mentioned I was raised similarly. My dad was the bread winner and most other things were left to my mother. That was the case in ALL of my friend's homes as I was growing up.
Far too much emphasis is placed on Nick's involvement with his children. If there was a serious problem - one of them got hurt, were bullied etc. you can bet Nick would be the first one there for his kids. Ruby and Frankie were healthy and happy. They had a loving mother and father and I can't see where anything about that past 7 weeks will scar them in any way.
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Elena wrote: "Sarah - i agree, we really didn't get enough information about him. The information that I got were bits and pieces and I seemed to stick to all the negative ones, so I ..."
This response seems to be mostly about Nick and Tessa's sex life (message #105) You refer my reply to BULL$(#%. You asked me at one point why I think that Tessa was not as interested in sex now as she was. You then add an attachment the proves my point. She said she would rather sleep than have sex.
In message #121 I said that another incident happened that made me believe that Tessa had lost a lot of interest in sex. I said that I was writing by memory so I may not have the wording exactly as Tessa said it.
She said "in the early days when everything comes so easily and we had sex 2 or even 3 times a night. Something I haven't felt like doing in a very long time". Those are Tessa's own words and I think they clearly prove my point. Tessa had lost a lot of interest in sex. When she started to suspect that Nick was having an affair she wanted sex with him again (I guess to prove to herself that he still wanted her) but now that Nick was with Valerie he wouldn't be intimate with Tessa.
I still maintain that if Tessa had continued to have sex regularly with Nick he would not have turned to another woman. Maybe I'm wrong but sex is a very important part of marriage and when one partner would rather sleep instead you can expect that eventually there will be problems. Nick and Valerie's affair being my case in point.
This response seems to be mostly about Nick and Tessa's sex life (message #105) You refer my reply to BULL$(#%. You asked me at one point why I think that Tessa was not as interested in sex now as she was. You then add an attachment the proves my point. She said she would rather sleep than have sex.
In message #121 I said that another incident happened that made me believe that Tessa had lost a lot of interest in sex. I said that I was writing by memory so I may not have the wording exactly as Tessa said it.
She said "in the early days when everything comes so easily and we had sex 2 or even 3 times a night. Something I haven't felt like doing in a very long time". Those are Tessa's own words and I think they clearly prove my point. Tessa had lost a lot of interest in sex. When she started to suspect that Nick was having an affair she wanted sex with him again (I guess to prove to herself that he still wanted her) but now that Nick was with Valerie he wouldn't be intimate with Tessa.
I still maintain that if Tessa had continued to have sex regularly with Nick he would not have turned to another woman. Maybe I'm wrong but sex is a very important part of marriage and when one partner would rather sleep instead you can expect that eventually there will be problems. Nick and Valerie's affair being my case in point.
Tegan wrote: "Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Linda wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even..."
Yes I do disagree with you about Tessa taking Nick back. I really do think that Nick was her man and she loved him dearly - flaws and all.
Yes I do disagree with you about Tessa taking Nick back. I really do think that Nick was her man and she loved him dearly - flaws and all.
Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 loved each other."I honestly don't think that EITHER would give the other one another chance if there weren't kids involved. At least not in the near future!
I think Tessa's pride would have been too hurt and that the smug and arrogant way Nick treated her for a while now (even before the affair) had already gotten to her...
Nick would have had NO reason to break off his affair with Valerie (hot sex with a new woman, when his wife wasn't really providing this to him for quite some time)... And if he did get sick and tired of Valerie, maybe eventually he would try to crawl back to Tessa... But right off the bat - i don't think he would even think of breaking up with Valerie if he didn't have kids to consider - he seemed to think Valerie was great and "deep", while he thought his wife was shallow and compared her to a sheep!
Granted - we don't know what Nick and Tessa's relationship would have been like had they NOT had kids! Maybe a lot of the strain sthat they had on their marriage just wouldn't be there without the kids... Maybe they wouldn't have stopped having sex, etc...
Elena wrote: "Tegan wrote: "Just a random question for you all...do you think Tessa would have given Nick another chance if they didn't have kids together? I don't, even thought I believe these 2 loved each othe..."
I agree in part but I think if Nick became his old self again - the one that Tessa fell in love with she would have taken him back again. Probably not instantly but eventually. Remember - when Nick told her about his affair with Valerie on Dec. 15th she kicked him out and she didn't take him back until the end of January. That was with kids of course so it may have taken her longer to take him back if there were no kids.
I agree that Nick would not have left Valerie immediately. His feelings for her were very intense (enough so that he risked his marriage, his children, his home, his job and his reputation) to be with her. As Tegan and I have agreed numerous times in the past - Nick didn't know the real Valerie at that point. All he saw was what Valerie wanted him to see - the perfect Valerie. She wanted him and she would say all the right things to get him. BUT once the newness of the affair wore off (and it always does) Nick would begin to see Valerie as she really was - Valerie would begin to revert back to her true self (the one that is so needy and self pitying). Nick would never be able to stay with a woman like that for long.
Nick was attracted to Tessa the first second he saw her on the subway. They became a couple but he didn't rush things. He didn't propose to her until he had known her for 6 months. I don't think EG tells us how long the engagement was until they married so we can only guess.
Tessa and Nick married. They were very happy together (sex 2 or 3 times a night) etc. They both had satisfying jobs and they would have set up their live on the basis of 2 incomes (size of their mortgage etc.) Along came Ruby. Tessa was still working.
No matter how much a man helps his wife when she is a working mother the woman ALWAYS ends up with the bulk of the responsibilities. Tessa began to complain about that. Then comes Frankie - things are really tough for Tessa now. Nick tells her to leave her job, they can get by on only one paycheck. Tessa does quite - suddenly they are getting by on much less income, Tessa is not the stay at home mother type. She becomes unhappy. She looses interest in sex. Nick is unhappy. As Nick said when he and Tessa were getting back together "marriage can be tough and it's not the romantic ride you think it's going to be in the beginning". He went on to say that that didn't give him the right to do what he did and that is very true.
Now back to your reply Elena - your final statement (we don't know what Nick and Tessa's relationship would have been like had they never had children). So very true and something I hadn't thought about until you mentioned it. I think they would be tremendously happy together without children. Nick loved his work and so did Tessa. Nick was attracted to strong women and that is what Tessa was. Tessa would be happy and therefore not so tired all the time. They obviously loved each other very much so I can't see how their relationship wouldn't be happy.
I agree in part but I think if Nick became his old self again - the one that Tessa fell in love with she would have taken him back again. Probably not instantly but eventually. Remember - when Nick told her about his affair with Valerie on Dec. 15th she kicked him out and she didn't take him back until the end of January. That was with kids of course so it may have taken her longer to take him back if there were no kids.
I agree that Nick would not have left Valerie immediately. His feelings for her were very intense (enough so that he risked his marriage, his children, his home, his job and his reputation) to be with her. As Tegan and I have agreed numerous times in the past - Nick didn't know the real Valerie at that point. All he saw was what Valerie wanted him to see - the perfect Valerie. She wanted him and she would say all the right things to get him. BUT once the newness of the affair wore off (and it always does) Nick would begin to see Valerie as she really was - Valerie would begin to revert back to her true self (the one that is so needy and self pitying). Nick would never be able to stay with a woman like that for long.
Nick was attracted to Tessa the first second he saw her on the subway. They became a couple but he didn't rush things. He didn't propose to her until he had known her for 6 months. I don't think EG tells us how long the engagement was until they married so we can only guess.
Tessa and Nick married. They were very happy together (sex 2 or 3 times a night) etc. They both had satisfying jobs and they would have set up their live on the basis of 2 incomes (size of their mortgage etc.) Along came Ruby. Tessa was still working.
No matter how much a man helps his wife when she is a working mother the woman ALWAYS ends up with the bulk of the responsibilities. Tessa began to complain about that. Then comes Frankie - things are really tough for Tessa now. Nick tells her to leave her job, they can get by on only one paycheck. Tessa does quite - suddenly they are getting by on much less income, Tessa is not the stay at home mother type. She becomes unhappy. She looses interest in sex. Nick is unhappy. As Nick said when he and Tessa were getting back together "marriage can be tough and it's not the romantic ride you think it's going to be in the beginning". He went on to say that that didn't give him the right to do what he did and that is very true.
Now back to your reply Elena - your final statement (we don't know what Nick and Tessa's relationship would have been like had they never had children). So very true and something I hadn't thought about until you mentioned it. I think they would be tremendously happy together without children. Nick loved his work and so did Tessa. Nick was attracted to strong women and that is what Tessa was. Tessa would be happy and therefore not so tired all the time. They obviously loved each other very much so I can't see how their relationship wouldn't be happy.
Another thing I am thinking about is my statement - Nick is attracted to strong women. Actually his very first attraction to Tessa on the subway was that she looked sad and unhappy - with that ring on her finger. He wanted to help her. Same thing with Valerie - in the hospital she was frantic with worry over Charlie and Nick wanted to help her.
HOWEVER: When Tessa called Nick the first time she showed sign's of her strength when he asked her if she called to "ask him" out". She replied - I called, the asking out is up to you. She had already broken her engagement and Nick would be seeing her as the very strong woman she really was.
In Valerie's case - after time - would have shown Nick the very self pitying woman she really was.
HOWEVER: When Tessa called Nick the first time she showed sign's of her strength when he asked her if she called to "ask him" out". She replied - I called, the asking out is up to you. She had already broken her engagement and Nick would be seeing her as the very strong woman she really was.
In Valerie's case - after time - would have shown Nick the very self pitying woman she really was.
Linda wrote: "Another thing I am thinking about is my statement - Nick is attracted to strong women. Actually his very first attraction to Tessa on the subway was that she looked sad and unhappy - with that rin..."I totally agree with u. Nick would have tired of always being the hero...be a strong woman and rescue yourself!
I just wanted to add that I think betrayal of this kind is VERY hard to recover from even though Nick and Tessa love each other.I think the road ahead would be very hard...
Not sure if they could overcome it, but I don't question their love.
One more thing that really clinches for me how much Nick loved Tessa. When Tessa threw him out on Dec. 15th. why didn't he go back to Valerie?
He could have divorced Tessa. More than likely they would have gotten "joint custody" of their children and Nick would have had them 50% of the time. Probably a little more than he saw them before.
BUT HE DIDN'T. Instead he stayed goodness know's where for another month and a half (EG doesn't tell us where Nick was staying) while he continually begged Tessa to take him back.
He could have had it all! He would have had Valerie and Charlie full time and his own children 50% of the time and he would never have had to see Tessa again.
Divorce is never a good idea financially but Valerie made good money and she had a house. He could have moved in with her (or if his pride would have prevented that, and I can understand why it would) they could have sold her house and bought a house between then.
WHY DIDN'T HE?? If he was concerned about the "Board of Ethics" at the hospital giving him a hard time he had already taken care of that by referring Charlie to a different Dr.
For me, all of this proves his love for Tessa - without a doubt.
He could have divorced Tessa. More than likely they would have gotten "joint custody" of their children and Nick would have had them 50% of the time. Probably a little more than he saw them before.
BUT HE DIDN'T. Instead he stayed goodness know's where for another month and a half (EG doesn't tell us where Nick was staying) while he continually begged Tessa to take him back.
He could have had it all! He would have had Valerie and Charlie full time and his own children 50% of the time and he would never have had to see Tessa again.
Divorce is never a good idea financially but Valerie made good money and she had a house. He could have moved in with her (or if his pride would have prevented that, and I can understand why it would) they could have sold her house and bought a house between then.
WHY DIDN'T HE?? If he was concerned about the "Board of Ethics" at the hospital giving him a hard time he had already taken care of that by referring Charlie to a different Dr.
For me, all of this proves his love for Tessa - without a doubt.
Linda wrote: "One more thing that really clinches for me how much Nick loved Tessa. When Tessa threw him out on Dec. 15th. why didn't he go back to Valerie?He could have divorced Tessa. More than likely they..."
Yes Linda!! yes :)
I couldn't agree with this statement ANYMORE.
That showed to me, how much he did love Tessa. He wanted Tessa and loved her!!
Stephanie wrote: "Linda wrote: "Tessa said that Nick had cleaned the house but she thought that Carolyn had left the basket of clean laundry.
Anyways, I agree that Nick was an idiot. In the end he apologized to Te..."
Stephanie, in your reply #107 you say that it is all just speculation who cleaned the house. That really isn't so. Caroline stayed with the kids the night before when Nick was slobbering all over Valerie in her house. He came home later and Caroline would have gone home then too.
The next morning Nick prepared breakfast etc. When Tessa came home that afternoon the beds were made and the kitchen was spotless. Unless Caroline came back the next morning while Nick was home with the kids - and I really don't think she did, (Nick would hardly pay a baby sitter when he was home himself). I assume they all slept in their beds so if Nick didn't make them - who did. Another thing that Tessa mentioned was that Ruby even had a bow in her hair. She considered that a major accomplishment. Who would have put the bow in her hair if it wasn't Nick.
I keep coming across things I hadn't read before (or maybe hadn't absorbed before is a better description). You say that Nick is a lying b-----d because when he was breaking up with Valerie he told her he respected Tessa and cared for her deeply. Valerie was the woman he was cheating with - when would a man who is having an affair ever talk with his girlfriend and tell her how much he loved his wife. Nick lied continually to Tessa about everything that happened during the affair, that's what an affair is - one partner cheating on the other. The guilty party would hardly come home after he was with his girl friend and tell his wife all about it. Affairs are ugly and disgusting. The guilty parties are cheating on, lying to and betraying their partner. Nick was just as disgusting as everyone else who is having an affair.
Anyways, I agree that Nick was an idiot. In the end he apologized to Te..."
Stephanie, in your reply #107 you say that it is all just speculation who cleaned the house. That really isn't so. Caroline stayed with the kids the night before when Nick was slobbering all over Valerie in her house. He came home later and Caroline would have gone home then too.
The next morning Nick prepared breakfast etc. When Tessa came home that afternoon the beds were made and the kitchen was spotless. Unless Caroline came back the next morning while Nick was home with the kids - and I really don't think she did, (Nick would hardly pay a baby sitter when he was home himself). I assume they all slept in their beds so if Nick didn't make them - who did. Another thing that Tessa mentioned was that Ruby even had a bow in her hair. She considered that a major accomplishment. Who would have put the bow in her hair if it wasn't Nick.
I keep coming across things I hadn't read before (or maybe hadn't absorbed before is a better description). You say that Nick is a lying b-----d because when he was breaking up with Valerie he told her he respected Tessa and cared for her deeply. Valerie was the woman he was cheating with - when would a man who is having an affair ever talk with his girlfriend and tell her how much he loved his wife. Nick lied continually to Tessa about everything that happened during the affair, that's what an affair is - one partner cheating on the other. The guilty party would hardly come home after he was with his girl friend and tell his wife all about it. Affairs are ugly and disgusting. The guilty parties are cheating on, lying to and betraying their partner. Nick was just as disgusting as everyone else who is having an affair.
Another thing I think about (I seem to be obsessed with this stupid book right now) is the actual affair itself. They have a 7 week affair. They are soooo in love but Nick doesn't even kiss her until the end of the 6th week they are together. The night he gives Charlie his coin he kisses Valerie goodbye for the first time. Valerie says it's not the first kiss she imagined - more sweet than passionate - but that was it.
The night before Thanksgiving after Jason leaves Nick tells Valerie that he is going to stay and sit beside her and continue to torture himself. Valerie then leans into him and Nick lowers her to the couch and lays on top of her - AND PROMPTLY FALLS ASLEEP!!!
WHAT KIND OF AN AFFAIR IS THAT???
I know it's called an emotion affair rather than a sexual one but if Nick is so tortured then why didn't he make love to her then. This guy has more bodily control than anyone I've ever hear of.
The night before Thanksgiving after Jason leaves Nick tells Valerie that he is going to stay and sit beside her and continue to torture himself. Valerie then leans into him and Nick lowers her to the couch and lays on top of her - AND PROMPTLY FALLS ASLEEP!!!
WHAT KIND OF AN AFFAIR IS THAT???
I know it's called an emotion affair rather than a sexual one but if Nick is so tortured then why didn't he make love to her then. This guy has more bodily control than anyone I've ever hear of.
I have said this before, but this affair was so boring!! Totally not worth it. I actually was embarrassed for Nick, I never saw the passion between him and Valerie.While we hear Nick refer to Tessa as beautiful, I never got the sense that he thought Valerie was beautiful.
One last thing to comment on, at the end when Nick is talking to Tessa, he says the feelings he had for Valerie don't compare to his love for Tessa...right from his mouth. He also said he was trying to tell Tessa how much her loved HER.
I think why people have so much trouble with this book, is that we never hear Nick speak and because the ending is so abrupt.What was Nick really thinking? Why did he risk everything? What was going on with him after Tessa kicked him out? So many questions...and no answers.
And the ending...just so unsatisfying.
We are never really sure what happens with Tessa and Nick. All we know she is going to TRY and forgive him. Is she able to forgive him? What is their marriage like? How does Nick change and make amends for his horrible behavior? When he looks back in his affair, what does HE really think?
I know that authors like to leave things to the imagination of the reader...but this ending, in my opinion, is TOO open ended. What is the heart of the matter? Forgiveness? We are never sure if Tessa does forgive Nick.
Sarah wrote: "I think why people have so much trouble with this book, is that we never hear Nick speak and because the ending is so abrupt.What was Nick really thinking? Why did he risk everything? What was go..."
exactly, exactly...EXACTLY!
That's my problem - I wish i could get Nick's side too, his feelings and thoughts - that way I could actually judge the situation more accurately... This way - I'm just speculating and all I can think of is "once a cheater, always a cheater" ... But maybe a few pages from his perspective would have warmed me up to him!
Elena wrote: "Sarah wrote: "I think why people have so much trouble with this book, is that we never hear Nick speak and because the ending is so abrupt.
What was Nick really thinking? Why did he risk everythin..."
I'm not sure I agree with "once a cheater, always a cheater" any more than "once a thief, always a thief." There are always extenuating circumstances. In the case of this story - two people find themselves drifting apart in their relationship. We see both of their faults and the mistakes they make. Nick reacts by having a brief affair (which I think is without question the wrong decision). The reason I believe this is because I think he really does love Tessa. Actually an affair is the WRONG decision ANYTIME, and rarely ends in happiness for anyone.
When Tessa threw Nick out after he confessed, he was lost and (I think) in shock. He lost his wife, his children and his home practically overnight. He had just told Valerie that he would always love her and yet he never contacted her again even when Tessa refused to talk to him for the next 7 or 8 weeks. After he left Valerie I don't think he would ever give her another thought.
I believe that when Tessa finally agreed to talk to him he was a "broken man". Tessa's description of him from the day before when he left her a birthday greeting on the phone was that she detected a note of "desperation" in his voice.
I don't think Nick will ever cheat again. Why? because he loves Tessa and his children and would never do anything to jeopardize them again. A very secondary reason would be that affairs show weakness. Nick is a very proud man and would not be able to stand being portrayed as weak. But as I said, that is a very minor reason. He was remorseful, ashamed and embarrassed that he had done such a thing.
The bottom line is he loves his family and will spend the rest of his life making it up to them and regretting what he did.
That is my humble opinion.
What was Nick really thinking? Why did he risk everythin..."
I'm not sure I agree with "once a cheater, always a cheater" any more than "once a thief, always a thief." There are always extenuating circumstances. In the case of this story - two people find themselves drifting apart in their relationship. We see both of their faults and the mistakes they make. Nick reacts by having a brief affair (which I think is without question the wrong decision). The reason I believe this is because I think he really does love Tessa. Actually an affair is the WRONG decision ANYTIME, and rarely ends in happiness for anyone.
When Tessa threw Nick out after he confessed, he was lost and (I think) in shock. He lost his wife, his children and his home practically overnight. He had just told Valerie that he would always love her and yet he never contacted her again even when Tessa refused to talk to him for the next 7 or 8 weeks. After he left Valerie I don't think he would ever give her another thought.
I believe that when Tessa finally agreed to talk to him he was a "broken man". Tessa's description of him from the day before when he left her a birthday greeting on the phone was that she detected a note of "desperation" in his voice.
I don't think Nick will ever cheat again. Why? because he loves Tessa and his children and would never do anything to jeopardize them again. A very secondary reason would be that affairs show weakness. Nick is a very proud man and would not be able to stand being portrayed as weak. But as I said, that is a very minor reason. He was remorseful, ashamed and embarrassed that he had done such a thing.
The bottom line is he loves his family and will spend the rest of his life making it up to them and regretting what he did.
That is my humble opinion.
I agree with Linda, I don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater. That is way too simplistic view on it. Do I think nick will cheat again? NO. He clearly learned a hard lesson.While Linda has given a good insight onto Nick's feelings and thoughts, and I agree with them, I wish EG would have included his view. He really did seem like a broken man at the end...living with the damage you caused must be unbearable.
I think the greatest point in proving Nick's love of Tessa, is that he didn't go back to Valerie after Tessa tossed him out. Without a doubt, Valerie would have welcomed him with open arms.
The question I pose is, who is Nick Russo? With Valerie, he is sweet and romantic. With his WIFE, he is cold and distant.
Sarah wrote: "I agree with Linda, I don't believe once a cheater, always a cheater. That is way too simplistic view on it. Do I think nick will cheat again? NO. He clearly learned a hard lesson.
While Linda has..."
Cold and distant - yes. But not always. Tessa would never have fallen in love with him if that was so. Tessa too changed in that she became a different person than Nick married. The cold and distant and the changed personality were all part of the downward spiral in their relationship.
When Nick was with Valerie he was sweet and romantic - yes - because he was experiencing new romance and spending time with a woman who showed him a life with no complications. Valerie wanted him to see her as the "perfect woman", who always said and did the right things.
When he went home he walked into all of the problem of raising a family and caring for a home. Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when he was at home.
I am sure Nick wasn't in love with Valerie and was dealing with infatuation and the boost she was giving his ego. When he was home there was always problems and with children there always would be. After Tessa threw him out I think he would have given anything to be part of the "HOME PROBLEMS" again.
Once the novelty of Nick and Valerie's affair wore off Nick might have become cold and distant with her as well. We will never know because the affair didn't last that long.
As you say, we don't get to see who Nick really is. We can only surmise. We did get to see him as a younger man when he met Tessa and going into their early life together. We see the way he interacts with his children and the natural way he cares for them. We see the way he handles himself with Valerie and Charlie during his affair, we see how he is as a Dr. when he is caring for Charlie in the hospital. Unfortunately we also see him once he lets his guard down which he does with Tessa whenever he is home.
This is what we get to see of NICK RUSSO. We will probably all interpret it differently.
While Linda has..."
Cold and distant - yes. But not always. Tessa would never have fallen in love with him if that was so. Tessa too changed in that she became a different person than Nick married. The cold and distant and the changed personality were all part of the downward spiral in their relationship.
When Nick was with Valerie he was sweet and romantic - yes - because he was experiencing new romance and spending time with a woman who showed him a life with no complications. Valerie wanted him to see her as the "perfect woman", who always said and did the right things.
When he went home he walked into all of the problem of raising a family and caring for a home. Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when he was at home.
I am sure Nick wasn't in love with Valerie and was dealing with infatuation and the boost she was giving his ego. When he was home there was always problems and with children there always would be. After Tessa threw him out I think he would have given anything to be part of the "HOME PROBLEMS" again.
Once the novelty of Nick and Valerie's affair wore off Nick might have become cold and distant with her as well. We will never know because the affair didn't last that long.
As you say, we don't get to see who Nick really is. We can only surmise. We did get to see him as a younger man when he met Tessa and going into their early life together. We see the way he interacts with his children and the natural way he cares for them. We see the way he handles himself with Valerie and Charlie during his affair, we see how he is as a Dr. when he is caring for Charlie in the hospital. Unfortunately we also see him once he lets his guard down which he does with Tessa whenever he is home.
This is what we get to see of NICK RUSSO. We will probably all interpret it differently.
Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when he was at home. She wasn't putting on an act? I don't understand.
Sarah wrote: "Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when he was at home.
She wasn't..."
Sorry, that really isn't the way I meant it. I was comparing her to Valerie who I believe was REALLY putting on an act and making herself appear perfect whenever she was with Nick. That would be because their relationship was so new and she was doing everything she could to impress Nick.
Tessa on the other hand was simply herself and didn't need to pretend otherwise. I expect in the very beginning she was probably presenting herself in the best possible light as well. I believe we all do that. We are interested in someone so we do everything we can to impress them. Once a couple is together for a while they drop the pretence and let each other see themselves as they really are. Sorry for the confusing wording.
She wasn't..."
Sorry, that really isn't the way I meant it. I was comparing her to Valerie who I believe was REALLY putting on an act and making herself appear perfect whenever she was with Nick. That would be because their relationship was so new and she was doing everything she could to impress Nick.
Tessa on the other hand was simply herself and didn't need to pretend otherwise. I expect in the very beginning she was probably presenting herself in the best possible light as well. I believe we all do that. We are interested in someone so we do everything we can to impress them. Once a couple is together for a while they drop the pretence and let each other see themselves as they really are. Sorry for the confusing wording.
Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when he was at home..."No worries Linda, I totally understand and agree with you.
I always wish we would have heard Nick's voice in the phone messages, emails, and letters he left for Tessa.
Sarah wrote: "Linda wrote: "Sarah wrote: "Tessa was comfortable in their relationship (before all of the cheating began) and therefore was not putting on an act and showed her true colours just as Nick did when ..."
Yes, I would have loved that too. I would especially have liked to hear the ones that Tessa describes as the late night calls when his messages were soft and sad.
Tessa admits that she was aching with loneliness too and I admire her strong will that helped her to ignore them.
Yes, I would have loved that too. I would especially have liked to hear the ones that Tessa describes as the late night calls when his messages were soft and sad.
Tessa admits that she was aching with loneliness too and I admire her strong will that helped her to ignore them.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Covet (other topics)
The Comfort of Lies (other topics)
Tear Stained Beaches (other topics)
The Husband's Secret (other topics)
More...
Books mentioned in this topic
Love the One You're With (other topics)Covet (other topics)
The Comfort of Lies (other topics)
Tear Stained Beaches (other topics)
The Husband's Secret (other topics)
More...
Part 2
-Regarding their sex life. If Nick wanted to have sex with his wife, I’m sure she would have during the time that we were reading, bc she felt it as a way to connect with him, which they weren’t doing, per their argument. The one time they do have sex, she indicates this in her thoughts because she feels she has something to prove about their relationship. I’d also like to add that in no way does Tessa indicate that she wouldn’t have sex with her husband if he tried to initiate it. ”I still love having sex with my husband, as much as ever once we’re under way. It just so happens that I now prefer sleep to most everything else—chocolate, red wine, HBO, and sex..
Also, where in the book can you say that it’s not a choice Nick would make, losing interest in sex? Just because he’s sexual, doesn’t mean he desires his wife, which could also be why they’re only having sex 2-3 a month. I'm interested in how you came to that conclusion
- To me, Nick is a judgmental a-hole, ignorant, and is slightly sexist, by default. I don’t necessarily believe it’s conscious, but it’s still there regardless. Hear me out: he has no idea what it is like to be a woman, a mother, and a stay at home mother at that. I didn’t like the way he generalized all those housewives. “Oh, let’s see,” he says, rubbing his jaw. “Superficial. Artificial. Sheep. They’re more worried about how they come across to others than who they really are. They exhaust themselves in their pursuit of things that don’t matter.” “Oh, I’m quite sure they’ve done a thorough background check on you.” “Yeah?” she says. “What else do they have to do with their time?” he says, looking into her eyes.
Where is his compassion, even the slightest attempt anywhere in the book to understand their plight? Maybe I'm getting this deep bc the book is meant to be contemporary. As such, I think I have a point. Look, how what he said can be flipped: They exhaust themselves in things that don't matter? So does lying cheating husband, who is especially doing it to chase vanity, his need to feel like a effing hero. It's about his pride. Those housewives battles to make homemade cookies as opposed to store brought, spending money on cosmetic procedures or products to maintain their looks, decision to ascend leadership roles among children/school parental groups, are also about their pride. Their pride as moms!
Those women, I believe, suffer from a greater problem regarding our culture as it relates to successful motherhood and being a woman. A lot of those women are going through their own problems that Nick’s own wife is also experiencing; which, funny enough he doesn’t seem to have any compassion for either. Those housewives are not unlike his own: they were accomplished educated women who are now struggling with losing a part of themselves and their happiness that came from their past ambition and accomplishments. They are no longer career driven and focused on their education for the workplace, but rather their roles as mothers and wives, and being the best at it. So what do they do? Sure, they get caught up in the labels and pressures that SOCIETY puts on them on what it takes to be a successful mom, and especially since they no longer work. So of course they often lose sight of the bigger picture of what matters, but I think most people would in their shoes. Ahem, Dr. Nicolas "CHEATING BASTARD" Russo (pot meet kettle). That is their ambition now, all they have (from their POV). IMO, it’s not too hard to draw that same parallel of how the competitiveness goes among colleagues in the workforce. THAT is why Nick is unable to understand what Tessa, his wife is going through. It’s much deeper than her not appearing to be happy! Not cursing at anyone, it’s just an issue in our society that hits home for me.