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message 1: by Midu, loves Ratatouille (new)

Midu Hadi | 6726 comments Mod
This article states that according to The American Library Association (ALA) , the top 10 most frequently challenged books of 2011 were:



1) ttyl (Internet Girls, #1) by Lauren Myracle ttfn (Internet Girls, #2) by Lauren Myracle l8r, g8r (Internet Girls, #3) by Lauren Myracle by Lauren Myracle
Reasons: Offensive language; religious viewpoint; sexually explicit; unsuited to age group

2) The Color of Earth (Color Trilogy, #1) by Kim Dong Hwa The Color of Water (Color Trilogy, #2) by Kim Dong Hwa The Color of Heaven (Color Trilogy, #3) by Kim Dong Hwa by Kim Dong Hwa
Reasons: Nudity; sex education; sexually explicit; unsuited to age group

3) The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, #1) by Suzanne Collins Mockingjay (The Hunger Games, #3) by Suzanne Collins Catching Fire (The Hunger Games, #2) by Suzanne Collins by Suzanne Collins
Reasons: Anti-ethnic; anti-family; insensitivity; offensive language; occult/satanic; violence

4) My Mom's Having a Baby! A Kid's Month-By-Month Guide to Pregnancy by Dori Hillestad Butler by Dori Hillestad Butler
Reasons: Nudity; sex education; sexually explicit; unsuited to age group

5) The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie by Sherman Alexie
Reasons: Offensive language; racism; religious viewpoint; sexually explicit; unsuited to age group

6) The Agony of Alice (Alice, #1) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor Alice in Rapture, Sort of (Alice, #2) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor Reluctantly Alice (Alice, #3) by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
Reasons: Nudity; offensive language; religious viewpoint

7) Brave New World by Aldous Huxley by Aldous Huxley
Reasons: Insensitivity; nudity; racism; religious viewpoint; sexually explicit

8) What My Mother Doesn't Know (What My Mother Doesn't Know, #1) by Sonya Sones by Sonya Sones
Reasons: Nudity; offensive language; sexually explicit

9) Gossip Girl (Gossip Girl, #1) by Cecily von Ziegesar You Know You Love Me (Gossip Girl, #2) by Cecily von Ziegesar All I Want Is Everything (Gossip Girl, #3) by Cecily von Ziegesar by Cecily Von Ziegesar
Reasons: Drugs; offensive language; sexually explicit

10) To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee by Harper Lee
Reasons: Offensive language; racism

The website also mentions:
Top ten most frequently challenged books of 2009

10 Most Frequently Challenged Library Books of 2010

The only book that I've read on this list is To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee and I loved it. Which book(s) have you read and what are your thoughts on the book(s) being challenged?


Kayleigh {K-Books} (kayley_12) You haven't read The Hunger Games?
Really?
They are my favourite books ever. Absolutely amazing.


message 3: by Charina (new)

Charina (charinathebookkeeper) | 10 comments OMG!!! are this people serious? "-.-"
For The Hunger Games:
Violence - I get it.
Occult/Satanic - WHAT???? HOW? WHERE?
Offensive Language - WHAT?????
Insensitivity - If you are that sensitive, maybe you shouldn't have pick up that book.
Anti-family - WAS I THE ONLY ONE THAT READ ABOUT A KID THAT WAS SACRIFICING EVERYTHING FOR HER FAMILY?
Anti-ethnic - please explain this part to me, like I'm a five year old "-.-"


message 4: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 92 comments I haven't read any of the books on that list actually!

At the top it says they were requested to be removed from school library bookshelves which puts things in context a little bit.

Some the of reasons and justifications are hilarious though.


message 5: by Michael (new)

Michael Cargill (michaelcargill) | 92 comments Charina wrote: "Anti-ethnic - please explain this part to me, like I'm a five year old "-.-" "

I haven't seen or read it but I am guessing it means that everyone in the book is white.


Kayleigh {K-Books} (kayley_12) But they're not. Rue/Thresh/Cinna and the stylists are all described as having 'darker' skin.


message 7: by B. (new)

B.  Barron (drcarstairs) Gee, they forgot to include “Huckleberry Finn” because of its offensive use of the 'N' word!
God, people are dim!
Okay, I can see a high school library not carrying Playboy – but these?
God I wish people would get a life, grow the Hades up, and quit worrying someone else's children might be exposed to ideas and concepts they don’t agree with.


message 8: by A.M. (new)

A.M. Hargrove (amhargrove1) | 48 comments It drives me crazy when people bash works of fiction because they don't agree with the premise on which they were written. The Hunger Games was violent, but what would you expect in a post-apocolyptic dystopia? Hearts and flowers? Doubtful. In my humble opinion, it was a brilliant work of fiction that depicted what could happen when laziness, greed and the desire for power overrule hard work and basic necessities. Not to mention--it was a work of FICTION. Those comments probably came from the same people that bashed Harry Potter for devil-worshipping... Get over it already!
Great thread Midu!


message 9: by B. (new)

B.  Barron (drcarstairs) Hmm. I just noted that 6, or 7 if you count the children's book on mommy being pregnant, have female lead characters and discuss female coming-of-age.
Makes one wonder if someone feels a bit threatened by that.

Naaa. That couldn’t be. Who could possibly feel threatened, or even unease, at that.

;)


message 10: by Caedy (last edited Apr 14, 2012 06:12AM) (new)

Caedy  Eries (karida) | 46 comments I've read The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, #1) by Suzanne Collins , and want to read the next two in the series. I've also read To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee . My roommate's son has read The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian by Sherman Alexie for homeschooling, and seriously, I see very little wrong with it, especially the claim that it is unsuited for the age group.

As far as The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, #1) by Suzanne Collins being anti-family...WTF? Katniss is all about her freakin family, she keeps her sister from going into that hell, and basically takes Rue on as a little sister type role until Rue dies (sorry for the spoiler...not really). She also, flat out refuses to allow any additional chances for her mother or her sister to have their names in that nightmare drawing more than once! I mean REALLY? She focuses so much on her family, and that is part of the reason she has to survive.

People make my head hurt -.-' Seriously.

Also, looking at these lists only makes me want to add more of them to my to-read list :D


message 11: by Caedy (last edited Apr 14, 2012 06:19AM) (new)

Caedy  Eries (karida) | 46 comments Also, I am surprised that they took And Tango Makes Three by Justin Richardson off the list!

I've read it, it is ADORABLE, and so very, very cute and based on a true story!


message 12: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Street (alicia_street) | 4 comments You're right, Ryan. In the Naylor books the protagonist gets a bra and experiences her first menstrual period. And even though it's okay to be deluged with offensive Viagra and Cialis commercials on TV, we don't dare allow anyone to talk about what happens to the female body when a girl reaches adolescence.
I've read most of the books in the list and all I can say is they were probably challenged in communities where narrow minded, ignorant people have there own agenda about how everyone else should live. There are places in the US where they are actually rewriting and falsifying history books to be used in schools. Horrifying.


message 13: by Caedy (new)

Caedy  Eries (karida) | 46 comments Ryan, of course! That's gotta be it!

Us women are scary, scary people that make the men of this nation quiver in fear..

*cough*

Sorry. Um. Yeah. Don't know where I was going with that, but one of the uppity female characters in my head demanded I say that, and I supported her on it. :D


message 14: by A.M. (new)

A.M. Hargrove (amhargrove1) | 48 comments ROTLF! Woo hoo!


message 15: by Laura (new)

Laura Thomas (laurathomas) | 105 comments We have come a long way from Freedom of Speech eh!!


message 16: by Abby (last edited Apr 14, 2012 07:21AM) (new)

Abby  | 69 comments Charina wrote: "OMG!!! are this people serious? "-.-"
For The Hunger Games:
Violence - I get it.
Occult/Satanic - WHAT???? HOW? WHERE?
Offensive Language - WHAT?????
Insensitivity - If you are that sensitive, ma..."


ummm yea... she pretty much just summed up what I was thinking when I read this... WTF have they been smoking?!?! Satanic? anti ethnic? Anti family??? The whole reason she's doing what she's doing is for her family for god sakes!! Are they stupid???


message 17: by Sheri (last edited Apr 14, 2012 08:38AM) (new)

Sheri From that list I've read The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, #1) by Suzanne Collins Mockingjay (The Hunger Games, #3) by Suzanne Collins Catching Fire (The Hunger Games, #2) by Suzanne Collins and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley , which we had actually read in high school. Apparently it wasn't too racey for my school.

I actually read an article (couldn't find it to post here, but I'll keep looking) that stated Twilight was satanic because Stephanie Meyer had dreamed up Edward, and he was really a demon who wanted her to write about him for attention...true story.


message 18: by Sheri (new)

Sheri BTW...I love all of these articles you find Midu!


message 19: by Midu, loves Ratatouille (new)

Midu Hadi | 6726 comments Mod
Thanks,Sheri!


message 20: by Abby (new)

Abby  | 69 comments Sheri wrote: "From that list I've read The Hunger Games (The Hunger Games, #1) by Suzanne CollinsMockingjay (The Hunger Games, #3) by Suzanne CollinsCatching Fire (The Hunger Games, #2) by Suzanne Collins and Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, which we had actually read in high school. Apparently it was..."

OMG... are you serious??? That's a laugh and a half ... Good lord the crap they come up with now...


Julie(Reading By The Beach) (httpwwwgoodreadscomjulie_odron) | 3 comments To Kill A Mockingbird? That one kills me, it's a literature piece that's part of our history just like Huck Finn. Our history isn't pretty people, therefore the books aren't going to be pretty either! These must be the people that hide in their houses in a constant battle of obliviousness and denial. What's the next step? Burning the books that they don't approve of?


message 22: by Wei (last edited Apr 14, 2012 09:40AM) (new)

Wei Cho (lunexian) You've got to be kidding me, how is "To Kill a Mockingbird" in that list? I vaguely know the other books listed so I cannot comment much on them, but it defies logic why Harper Lee's classic is even in the list! First of all, the pattern that the rest of the books share is that most of them are young adults fiction. Mockingbird is not (not that I know of, anyway). There are a lot of books using the word negro, read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" if you really want a racist book. Disclaimer: I know the authors did not set out to write a racist book. They set out to write about racism!!! So, it infuriates me that Lee's novel is there. Atticus Finch was not racist. Lee was just exposing the racist America in the 1930's, not being a racist. Geez people, get the difference. Why is it even racist? Thumbs down to the publication. There are books that really should be there but aren't. Someone (the person who wrote the article) is in dire needs to check their facts.


Julie(Reading By The Beach) (httpwwwgoodreadscomjulie_odron) | 3 comments Alicia wrote: "There are places in the US where they are actually rewriting and falsifying history books to be used in schools. Horrifying. ..."

That is crazy! I just had a conversation with the nicest lady, she grew up in a small village in England where there was an old school (the kind with desks that had inkwells) and I guess the town decided to rebuild, or re-do the building. Any guess as to what they did with all that old school stuff, even the extremely old books steeped in history?

They burned it. . . all. Such a shame, right? It made me physically sick to hear that. Not only am I a huge book lover, but history calls to me too.


message 24: by Lissa Smith Reads'~A Bookaholics Bookshelf (last edited Apr 14, 2012 10:21AM) (new)

 Lissa Smith Reads'~A Bookaholics Bookshelf (lissasmithreads) Well as a mother I have to say this… So forgive me if I offend anyone!!!

It just goes to show how in my opinion how stupid and narrow minded some have come. I get the whole lets clean up our libraries so our children will not be exposed to literature they are not emotionally ready to handle. Which is why I agree that playboy/play girl is not fit for any school library shelf.

However, if certain members of these great States want to remove to kill a mockingbird and other in the list for reasons such as violence and whatever else they can come up with to justify their ridicules notions. Then maybe these good Christian people who obviously read the books to know its content show also ban the Bible!

Yes I said it! I know I am not the perfect example of how to live one’s life according to laws of God. But come on… if you are going to ban books because of violence, sexuality and racism; the Bible should have been at the top of list.

Sorry for the mini-rant and again my apologies to anyone I might have offended. It was not my intentions, it was a point. A point that I hope everyone will understand.

My daughters have read most of the books on this list and many more. In all honesty we read them together. Lord, what does that say about my parenting skills…. Let me tell you! My youngest daughter read the book Beautiful Disasters by Jamie McGuire. Macy is only 12 and it’s clearly out of her age range. However, all her friends were reading it. Does it make e wrong for letting her read it??? NO! And you know why??? It allowed me to open up to her and explain her that not every girl in Abby’s situation gets a happy ending. It allowed us to talk about the different signs of an abusive boyfriend/ partners are and the steps she can take to protect herself. On a side note, I am not a complete idiot; I didn’t let her read the sexual contents we skipped over that. She is after all only 12!

In other words books of FICTION can be great teaching tools. It allows the young to learn without giving too much power to the past and it can also be a great escape from reality.

I have rambled so much I forgot my point!!! So I will just say…. the list is garbage and for me to continue feeding it gives it velocity which I think it doesn’t deserve!


message 25: by Sheri (last edited Apr 14, 2012 12:40PM) (new)

Sheri Here's the article where Stephanie talks about her dream of Edward, but I still can't find the one that called him a demon:
http://www.twilightgear.net/twilight-...


message 26: by J.A. (new)

J.A. Beard (jabeard) | 654 comments I specifically read Brave New World in high school because someone at my school argued it should be banned. I did that with a number of books. :)

Nice to see some of the classics still holding up somewhat in the outraging people department.

Heck, sometimes I think if an author isn't ticking at least one person off, maybe they aren't doing their job. ;)


message 27: by Sheri (new)

Sheri J.A. wrote: "Heck, sometimes I think if an author isn't ticking at least one person off, maybe they aren't doing their job. ;)..."

Lol! That's what I say about parenting...if my kids like me all the time, I'm not doing a good job :)


message 28: by Nawnee (new)

Nawnee (nawnees) | 2 comments I don't agree with this list at all if people think our libraries need to be cleaned up for our kids maybe they should start by monitoring what there children are reading and what's brought into their house and leave the rest of us to decide. Whats appropriate for our own children inencourage my 13yr old to read the hunger games cause it showed that you fight for your family and friends no matter what I thought the series was a great example of standing up to peer pressure. I thought we had left book burning fabrication of our history behind us along time ago.


message 29: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Street (alicia_street) | 4 comments Julie(Reading By The Beach) wrote: "Alicia wrote: "There are places in the US where they are actually rewriting and falsifying history books to be used in schools. Horrifying. ..."

That is crazy! I just had a conversation with the n..."


Julie, I don't see how your reply has anything to do with what I said. Do you think I'm picking on small towns? I am not. There are many I love and I happen to write novels about a rural place I love very much.
But the article at this link happens to be based on facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/edu...


message 30: by Michelle (new)

Michelle Scott (michellescottfiction) I read Brave, New World and To Kill a Mockingbird (both rank among my favorite books.)

If the only things we (or our kids) were allowed to read were those books that were so bland that no one found them offensive, I believe we'd end up with only one:

One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish by Dr. Seuss


message 31: by Lanie (new)

Lanie Malone | 39 comments The only book on the list that I've read is To Kill a Mocking Bird. I read it in class, in middle school. It was required. I should also mention that I live in the deep south.

I can't comment on the others, but as far as Mocking Bird goes, I think it should remain a required part of the curriculum, especially at that early an age. It is about racism. Its purpose is to educate people on the evils of racism. While an ugly truth, our history, and even our present, is filled with acts of violence and hatred based on race alone. To try and ignore or erase that past, only increases the odds that we will continue to repeat our mistakes. Educating our kids, teaching them to embrace our differences or at least respect them, is by far, the more logical course.


message 32: by Gaijinmama (new)

Gaijinmama | 2 comments Hi, this is my first post in this group!

I'm 44, a parent and a university English instructor. I'm probably also the only person on Earth who hasn't read The Hunger Games.
Seeing books on a list like this one makes me want to go right out and read them! And I'm sure most teenagers feel that way as well. When I was a kid, the big one that we secretly passed around was Forever by Judy Blume by Judy Blume. My parents were liberal about these things, but many others were freaked out by the idea of a book that realistically depicts...shock, gasp...a couple of high school students having sex!


message 33: by Midu, loves Ratatouille (new)

Midu Hadi | 6726 comments Mod
@Gaijinmama:
*raises hand* haven't read it either!


message 34: by Michelle (new)

Michelle Scott (michellescottfiction) Gaijinmama wrote: "Hi, this is my first post in this group!

I'm 44, a parent and a university English instructor. I'm probably also the only person on Earth who hasn't read The Hunger Games.
Seeing books on a list l..."


Lol. I remember that brewhaha, too!


Melissa (ladybug) Lissa wrote: "Well as a mother I have to say this… So forgive me if I offend anyone!!!

It just goes to show how in my opinion how stupid and narrow minded some have come. I get the whole lets clean up our libra..."


I can agree with your arguments, but where did the article even mention "Christians"? Just because someone wants to censor a book does not automatically mean "Christian". Sorry for my mini rant, but I am a Christian and it offends me for bias because of that.


message 36: by Janet (new)

Janet McNulty | 24 comments Charina wrote: "OMG!!! are this people serious? "-.-"
For The Hunger Games:
Violence - I get it.
Occult/Satanic - WHAT???? HOW? WHERE?
Offensive Language - WHAT?????
Insensitivity - If you are that sensitive, ma..."


I agree with you on the Hunger Games. This was far from being Satanic/Occultic, anti-family, and everything else. Anti-ethinic? What is that supposed to mean?


message 37: by Julie(Reading By The Beach) (last edited Apr 15, 2012 12:11AM) (new)

Julie(Reading By The Beach) (httpwwwgoodreadscomjulie_odron) | 3 comments Alicia wrote: " Julie, I don't see how your reply has anything to do with what I said. Do you think I'm picking on small towns? I am not. There are many I love and I happen to write novels about a rural place I love very much.
But the article at this link happens to be based on facts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/edu...
..."


Nope, wasn't disagreeing or saying that it wasn't a fact, I was simply saying that rewriting history was crazy, in other words, horrific. . . like you said. A simple misunderstanding, I think. I was in no way implying that you were picking on small towns, I was reminded of a conversation I had the other day and stated it. I'm sorry that you took it as me ridiculing your statement.


message 38: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Street (alicia_street) | 4 comments Julie(Reading By The Beach) wrote: "Alicia wrote: " Julie, I don't see how your reply has anything to do with what I said. Do you think I'm picking on small towns? I am not. There are many I love and I happen to write novels about a ..."

Thanks so much for clarifying that, Julie. I really like this group and certainly don't want any bad feelings going around. Now I understand what you meant.


Melissa (ladybug) There is censorship happening all over. See this article for more.

http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/...


message 40: by Lanie (new)

Lanie Malone | 39 comments A criminal investigation over a book? Ridiculous.

In response to some of the other comments:

No, we are not allowed to publicly discuss the changes a female goes through, unless it is done in the most vague way possible. Heaven forbid!

No, this kind of idiotic, blind censorship is not limited to Christians. Although, I have seen more Christians behave this way. But I consider them to be the extremists and not an accurate representation of an entire faith. I also think you see more Christian extremists in the news because the media is somewhat prejudiced against Christianity. But that's a conversation for another day.

The bottom line is, people these days love to put their blinders on and pretend that their reality is perfect and anything that intrudes on that fake perfection must be challenged and removed. It's the, "If I can't see it, it isn't there," mentality. It is easier to blame books, movies, and video games for the way kids turn out, than to look at ourselves as a community of parents and say, "Okay, maybe we f@*ked up."


message 41: by Marius (new)

Marius Trevelean (mtrevelean) If anything this list just goes to show how lazy and conservative the publishing industry has become if these are supposed to be offensive. The only thing I find offensive about the Hunger Games is that it's incredibly derivative. I sincerely hope that a Brave New World offends as many people as possible so that it might shake a few out of apathy.


message 42: by Marius (new)

Marius Trevelean (mtrevelean) J.A. wrote: "I specifically read Brave New World in high school because someone at my school argued it should be banned. I did that with a number of books. :)

Nice to see some of the classics still holding up ..."


Here, here!


message 43: by heather (new)

heather (12weddlehstudentsbcsck12inus) | 5 comments OCD Kay {K-Books} wrote: "You haven't read The Hunger Games?
Really?
They are my favourite books ever. Absolutely amazing."



message 44: by heather (new)

heather (12weddlehstudentsbcsck12inus) | 5 comments mine 2 i saw the movie saturday it was awesome but i pictured it more bloody and volient oh well still awesome lol :)!


message 45: by Michelle (new)

Michelle Scott (michellescottfiction) M. wrote: "If anything this list just goes to show how lazy and conservative the publishing industry has become if these are supposed to be offensive. The only thing I find offensive about the Hunger Games is..."

Lol!

heather wrote: "mine 2 i saw the movie saturday it was awesome but i pictured it more bloody and volient oh well still awesome lol :)!"

I thought that the movie was much tamer as well. I was glad, though, since I didn't want to wade through the gore to get to the plot.


 Lissa Smith Reads'~A Bookaholics Bookshelf (lissasmithreads) Melissa wrote: " Lissa wrote: "Well as a mother I have to say this… So forgive me if I offend anyone!!!

It just goes to show how in my opinion how stupid and narrow minded some have come. I get the whole lets cle..."


Sorry! Like I said… I didn’t mean to offend anyone…. I guess I chose Christians to pick on because I am from what they call a Bible belt town. Anytime something remotely enjoyable happens the woman of the church ban together with their pitch forks and Godly Southern Values and demand their husbands start laying hand on the heathens and…… Oh man I know I did it again…. So I suck at apologizing and now owe you an apology for apologizing.

I get it…. I do… I believe there is a God, and that Jesus died for our sins… I am also a realist… The numbers don’t lie…. Not many will make it to heaven the road is but too narrow.


message 47: by Gaijinmama (last edited Apr 18, 2012 02:54AM) (new)

Gaijinmama | 2 comments Lissa, I was raised by two recomvering Preacher's Kids and I think your post was great! Thanks for making me smile.
I'd just like to quote Billy Joel and say:
I'd rather laugh with the sinners
than cry with the saints.
The sinners have much more fun.

Cheers. I'm new in this group but I get the feeling we are all intelligent enough to accept and appreciate one another.


message 48: by B. (last edited Apr 20, 2012 04:18AM) (new)

B.  Barron (drcarstairs) Have to say, in general, I am in favor of uppity females. Beats the whiny do nothings any day of the week and twice on Sundays! Probably why I am not a Twilight fan – Bella is kind of a passive lump (Saw the movies [visually gorgeous – the cinematographer's deserves kudos], didn’t bother with the books).

As for rants - Rant on my friend!

I have heard the story of the dream Myers had that inspired Edward. I am not surprised that some have made the demon conclusion. If you want to peek into the mind of pure evil, check out Chick Cartoons ( http://www.chick.com/ - Be warned - these arsehats give me the screaming willies and demonstrate the worst of my Christian brethren). Its just the kind of thing these dimwits would come up with.

Nawnee – be parents? Are you kidding? Besides they already make sure their little ones conform (just look at how well behaved the preachers kids usually are. Sweet and kind, and they would never drink or smoke or have sex! Mwahahahah[Chough]! I kill me). No they are concerned that you are not raising your kids right!

Lanie - “I also think you see more Christian extremists in the news because the media is somewhat prejudiced against Christianity.”
AMEN!

On Christian Censorship:
While I too tire of the constant barrage of “Christians Bad”, but in the case of censorship I have to say it does tend to be the far right evangelical Christians tossing the books onto the pyre.
I don’t like it, I wish it were not true – but so far I haven't seen a Druid Book Burnings. Now there is “Burning Man” – which looks like a Hades of a good time right up to that creepy little symbolic substitution immolation (which also gives me the screaming willies) – but I think that's less Druid and more drunken bohemians blowing off some steam.
Now I am sure some other major religions do have their bibliophobes, I know Islam has its share and I think I recall some Hindu shenanigans; but I have no examples to give.
In my brethren defense they actually think they are doing the right thing, protecting people and saving their souls. They are wrong, suppressing knowledge is never a good. Historically when such suppressions of knowledge are successful it tends to predicate the fall of civilization.

As for the Bible, its kind of important as it is one of the foundations of modern civilization and modern literature – but it sure is filled with nasty bits like slavery, genocide, incest, murder, treachery, and general mischief. One would think it would be near the top of books too nasty to expose our children too – but there you go.

Be well my friends.


message 49: by Sheri (new)


message 50: by Midu, loves Ratatouille (new)

Midu Hadi | 6726 comments Mod
hehehe nice,Sheri!


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