Georgette Heyer Fans discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
Group Reads
>
April Group Read - Lady of Quality - ch1 - 5
date
newest »
newest »
As it turns out, I just finished listening to LoQ, so I'm ready with a couple of questions to pose. Picking a title for a book is always a challenge and of course we can't really go back and ask GH why she chose to call this one 'Lady of Quality' when in actuality all of her books are about 'the Quality.' Is this title ironic or tongue in cheek? Does it really refer to the heroine and is she really a 'lady of quality'?
Listening to GH is a bit different from reading book in hand. Listening to a book being read to you means that you are saddled with the narrator's interpretation of the characters and the readers choice of emphasis. Sometimes I just go along for the ride and other times it really makes me think about what I am reading.
Hmm good question Peregrine , re the title. I haven't read LOQ in ages so had to go back and find it again to have next to me, so I may be way off, but on reflection, I think the word Quality in the title, apart from referring to the idea of Quality-as-upper- class, also refers to Annis W's 'sterling qualities'.She is quite bold and self sufficient, and given to having her own way in a period when all those qualities must have been hard for a single woman to manage.
Pehaps also, the title refers to Amanda learning to be a LOQ - she has the birth ( and courage) but not the experience or judgement.
I went looking for a copy on my bookshelf (because it is hard to flip pages on an iPod) and found that while I may have multiple copies of These Old Shades, I don't have a single copy of LOQ. I wonder what that means?I have to ponder this business of 'Quality' vs qualities a bit more and get back to you with some thoughts. It's complex and I have to think out my answer.
Peregrina651 wrote: "Picking a title for a book is always a challenge and of course we can't really go back and ask GH why she chose to call this one 'Lady of Quality' when in actuality all of her books are about 'the Quality.' Is this title ironic or tongue in cheek? Does it really refer to the heroine and is she really a 'lady of quality'"Since I have an ebook version of the book I search for the word quality in the book and "lady of quality" is used quite a few times in the novel. In Annis and Oliver's first meeting he mentions it
"I do like you, but I'm damned if I know why! It isn't
your beauty, though that is remarkable; and it certainly isn't anything you have said or done. I think it must be your quality—that certain sort of something about you!"
So I think he was first attracted to her because she was a lady of quality and from his remarks later in the novel that he never "seduces ladies of quality" that he probably hasn't met many ladies of breeding that had a sense of humor and were witty most of them probably were either vulgar or of the lower class such as lady birds etc who were intelligent and had a sense of humor. That's my take on it. :)
I am curious does Heyer have a thing against brothers of heroines? Because in most of her novels the brother of the heroine is either unintelligent such as Pelham from the Convenient Marriage or they are prigs such as Geoffrey from LOQ. The only brothers that are neither are Frederica's but even then Harry isn't the greatest brother in the world. So maybe only young brothers are cool?
Sometimes older brothers are the father figures--the rule enforcers, symbols of the way things used to be done, should be done. Brothers can be foils for the rule breaking heroines, the way by which GH instructs her readers as to what the norms and mores of the society are. Someone has to have that role so we can see how different our heroines are.Harry isn't bad as brothers go, but he has his own life to live and he isn't quite ready to the head of the family. He is still growing up himself. If he is not careful, he will turn into a pompous prig--but perhaps not with Frederica guide him.
I think that Heyer was particularly good at depicting young men. Very often the young brothers are lively mischief makers who will probably grow out of their bad behaviour. Harry from Frederica is a good example, as is Arabella's brother (forgotten his name). By and large they are not unintelligent, but they are wild. Heyer had two younger brothers, to whom she was very close (particularly the brother closest to her in age). She also had a son. I suspect that a lot of her skill in depicting young men came from her experiences with her brothers and her son.
I agree with Peregrina that the older brothers often act as a foil for rule-breaking heroines. Annis' brother in this book is a great example. To some extent Conway (in Venetia) serves a similar purpose. Even though he doesn't actually appear in the book, he is still an important character. Not that Venetia is a rule-breaker, but her very different brothers underline Venetia's personality and temperament.
'Yes,' faltered Lucilla, dismayed by Miss Wychwood's obvious pity. 'The Honourable Mrs. Nibley, which made me think she must be a perfectly respectable person.'I went and bought an e-copy of this book because I realize that there is just no way for me to keep track of all the juicy quotes without a 'hard' copy. So imagine if you will, me, in front of my computer, with my headphones plugged in, listening to the text while I read it on screen.
There is a whole series of remarks in this book where the speaker or the narrator comments about how something must be right or good or proper because of that person's rank or status and not because that person is essentially a good person, where one's status confers honors rather than one's actual behavior (am I making sense?). I find it a constant theme in the GH Regencies.
Lucilla is positively naive!! But I still like her a whole lot more than I like that Farlow creature.
I actually hadn't read this one before, so it became my Easter present. :) I noticed this afternoon that she uses the precise phrase "lady of quality" a number of times. The fact that Annis is a "lady of quality" is key to her ability to take up Lucilla without causing talk, and to Lucilla's uncle being considered quite unsuitable for her to know. That pretty much sums up the major sources of tension in the plot! so maybe that's why the title.I thought the initial interactions among Annis, Lucilla, and Ninian were hilarious. Annis is so hard put to keep her composure at the younger folks' sillier interactions, but it's quite sweet of her to do so. (Another indication that she is a lady of quality, perhaps!)
Victoria wrote: " thought the initial interactions among Annis, Lucilla, and Ninian were hilarious. Annis is so hard put to keep her composure at the younger folks' sillier interactions, but it's quite sweet of her to do so. (Another indication that she is a lady of quality, perhaps!) "Nah, it's more fun to try to keep a straight face. No one then asks you why you are laughing. :D
I've just read up to Ch. 6 and I'm definitely enjoying the ride. Have to agree with Victoria; the interactions with Lucilla & Ninian are quite amusing (and annoying at times, alternately). Also is it just me or does the name 'Ninian' bring with it implications of 'ninny-hammer', 'nincompoop', etc? In that case, it's obviously not very flattering to him.
LadyDisdain wrote: "I've just read up to Ch. 6 and I'm definitely enjoying the ride. Have to agree with Victoria; the interactions with Lucilla & Ninian are quite amusing (and annoying at times, alternately). Also is ..."I kept thinking the same thing! But oh the joys of the internet. Ninian was a Scots saint: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Ni... and http://www.behindthename.com/name/ninian
I just looked at a time line of her books. LoQ was published in 1972; it was her last book. I always think of her stuff as older than that and forget that she actually wrote across her entire lifetime. In fact LoQ was published after I started reading her, which I don't think I ever realized until just now. I'll have to give this some thought: are her later heroines different from her earlier heroines?
The relationship between Annis and her sister-in-law Amabel is particularly well drawn, I thought. They aren't a bit alike, Amabel being much more conventional than Annis, but they seem to be in perfect sympathy with each other even as they disagree. I like the fact that Amabel doesn't try to defend Geoffrey's character when Annis criticizes him, and even laughs with her about some of her barbs. Even though she's portrayed as a conventionally gentle and biddable wife, she's got her own strength of character.
The big question for me with LoQ is the comparison with Black Sheep. The two books are so similar that it's hard to believe it was accidental. There are other Heyer books which reuse tropes and other Heyer characters who are very alike, but I can't think of another pair of books that have so much in common. Was it just the pressure of having to keep bringing out new books? Was it Heyer's way of demonstrating how bored she was with the Regency romances?
And do you prefer one over the other? Personally I think I slightly prefer Black Sheep, because I like the secondary characters better in that.
And do you prefer one over the other? Personally I think I slightly prefer Black Sheep, because I like the secondary characters better in that.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
New threads can be created for the characters as we go along.
Otherwise: fire away :)