Game of Thrones 12: Tyrion, Sansa, Eddard, Catelyn, Jon

[Kristi]

I'm posting this one a bit early since I will be on vacation! Did you enjoy this section?? What are your thoughts?

[Kristi]

Do we need another break week?? Seems like no one is commenting here yet.

[[deleted user]]

I've stopped commenting because it was a bit too slow for me. Sorry. I try and respond to comments if there are any but I don't want to start commenting in case I cause a spoiler

[Sandi]

Same here! And I would assume that most people are ahead and not behind. It's the book's fault, really :)

[Kristi]

Ahhhh...well that does make sense. Does anyone want to start??

[Ellen]

I'm actually slightly behind this week but I've been keeping with the schedule otherwise. As much of a page turner as the book is, I find it a bit fatiguing to read and can't read too much at once.

[Suzanne]

I finished the book, but I'll go back through to find the specific chapters and add some comments here soon. (Wish he'd numbered them!)

[Deana]

It is so odd that he didn't number the chapters, especially since so many of them have the same name. It does make things confusing when you are trying to share your thoughts with others.

I agree, no break needed!

I liked Sansa a little more for pleading for her father's life, but she is just so NAIVE and I can't believe she falls for their fake liking for her. It seems that Joffrey might have something decent in him -- as I'm sure HE does not know of his mother's deviousness and isn't in on it, and agreed to let Sansa see what she could do.

Poor Ned in the dungeon. His chapter was so horrible to read. I can't imagine being stuck in such a place. Such a hard choice for him -- he wants to do what is RIGHT, but that will be much more dangerous for him and his family.

And of course, Jon... stuck in the Black Brotherhood while he knows what is going on with his family back home. Really interesting to learn the "real" identity of master Aemon... at least Jon realizes that guy really DOES know what he is going through.

[[deleted user]]

I actually got a little frustrated with Ned. I think in that situation the best thing to do would have been to bend the knee to Joffrey and try to get back to his family. The time to War is not really when you're alone in your the castle of your enemy! I think he was a little too righteous and it ended up with him in the dungeon and his life at risk.

[Ellen]

Heather wrote: "I actually got a little frustrated with Ned. I think in that situation the best thing to do would have been to bend the knee to Joffrey and try to get back to his family. The time to War is not really when you're alone in your the castle of your enemy! I think he was a little too righteous and it ended up with him in the dungeon and his life at risk. "

That's a really good point. Although I do think he was at least partly motivated by his long friendship with a devotion to the king. It must have been galling to find out the truth.

I also think that one of the themes of the book is the foolish way that men behave to get and keep power. So Ned's foolishness there fits in.

[[deleted user]]

Ellen, I hadn't really picked up on that theme but that is an excellent point.
Martin seems to make men foolish and power-crazy and women fierce mothers without any common sense!

[Ellen]

I was thinking Daenerys and Catelyn are pretty shrewd about wielding power. Cersei, too. She just happens to be evil.

But I have not read ahead beyond where we're supposed to be. So maybe that changes.

[[deleted user]]

Ellen wrote: "I was thinking Daenerys and Catelyn are pretty shrewd about wielding power. Cersei, too. She just happens to be evil.

But I have not read ahead beyond where we're supposed to be. So maybe that cha..."

I'd forgotten about Daenerys, yeah she's actually pretty good with her power. But I don't really like Catelyn. I don't know why!

[Ellen]

I don't like Catelyn either. But she seems shrewd.

[Deana]

I would have to agree -- the women in general are pretty strong in this book, which is a good thing I think! I don't like Catelyn much, but I do think she has a good head on her shoulder in terms of doing what is good for her family in the end. But she is a bit ruthless, and her treatment of Jon is poor... then again, I feel like maybe that's the norm. I am hoping we get to find out the truth about Jon's mother in this book, but I kind of bet we don't.

[Catherine]

Yah I stopped commenting too because I just went ahead when we had that break week earlier.

It's noble of Ned to stay noble but the people that uphold morals in this book tend to not be rewarded very well while those that plot and scheme like the lannisters end up king. It's pretty bleak

I don't think the women are portrayed as strong at all really. Dany is much stronger but heavily reliant on drogo. Catelyn is strong willed but would not be able to have a say and override what rob wants. Sansa is naive and powerless. I think arya is the only fiesty heroine of the story in my eye. But the constraints of the society on women are quite binding

[Sandi]

Dany is still young though, wasn't she 13/14 when she married Drogo? And she already isn't a scared little child anymore, she has Drogo's and the khalasar's respect. It will be interesting to see how she developes over the next few years/books.
And while society doesn't seem to give women much room for development, there are other examples too. Lady Mormont and her daughters come to mind - though they probably aren't mentioned yet in the first book. Catelyn's sister holds the power while her son is a minor (though she doesn't do it very well). Catelyn herself seemed powerful to me when she arrested Tyrion on her own. So it also depends on whether women are content with their background role or not. Arya is definitely my favourite character, Martin's world needs more girls like her!

[Catherine]

I've only just finished the first book so I can't comment on the rest of the series yet.

Yeah for sure. I love Arya so much! I was going to bring up Catelyn's sister having the semblance of power, but she's also presented in a pretty bad light. I think that's why the book kinda leaves me feeling unsettled. Most of the women are just so unlikeable and weak in stereotypical womenly ways - Catelyn's sister being hysterical and unrational or Sansa being weak and blind to her love for Joffrey, who seems like a terrible person. I am interested to see where Dany goes. I do like her too...