Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
Book & Author Page Issues
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A Handful of Darkness by PKD
Mod
Perhaps a note in each of the respective books' info boxes?
This brings up a couple of things I've been thinking about w.r.t. librarians.1. Would it be worth constructing some sort of "training" module that has to be completed before someone can become a librarian? Nothing outrageously hard, long, or complicated, but something which forces them to read some of the basic rules and regulations a little more closely and perhaps answer a simple quiz? (I've been thinking about it for a few days and can't decide if this would annoy me or not, so I'm throwing it out for consideration)
2. Some sort of system which makes librarians contactable, at least by other librarians (or super-librarians?). I don't think we should require all librarians to have public profiles, but some sort of system which allows them to be contacted. One could view it as part-and-parcel with the responsibility being granted them as keeper of the database.
3. This is another case where the edition-lock would be useful.
Michael, I like your two suggestions. I'm also interested what others think of them.
Mod
#2 would definitely be good, but I'm not sure there's any sort of quiz for #1 that would be applicable -- there are all sorts of different librarian skills, and many people specialize in, say, editing quotes or editing trivia. I know I couldn't tell you much about editing trivia!
There was a discussion similar to this in the feedback group - about trying to improve the quality of librarians, I guess you could say, since it is so easy to become one and many new librarians start doing things without really understanding the system.I've thought about this too, since I get so tired of going around undoing mistakes. Personally, I hate the auto-combine feature. I've had to undo the same changes on one author's profile more times than I can remember.
I've wondered about the possibility of a master librarian for authors...like someone who is very knowledgeable about an author getting status as ML for that author, and then being able to approve changes others suggest. Which is probably too involved a system.
It just drives me nuts sometimes to think that for a couple authors I've done extensive editing on, someone can come through and change things on a whim.
But I don't know that there's a feasible way to try to prevent the kinds of things brought up here.
One thing I'd like is a master edit log for authors - one that included every change to their books (even newly added ones) so that librarians trying to keep certain authors accurate would have an easier way to find out what's been going on with that author's books.
As a new-ish librarian, I definitely think that a training document would be helpful. I've been mostly correcting HTML formatting errors, typos, incorrect punctuation, etc because I'm not really comfortable with some of the more major changes yet, such as separating, or combining & merging. It would be great if any training document that's created included examples, preferably with screen-shots. :)
I don't know if a quiz would be all that great, unless it's based mainly on the info in the training, but it might work to weed out those who either flunk the test or aren't serious about the responsibility and just think it's cool to be able to change things up.
I do like the idea of having a way to communicate directly with other Librarians. I'd definitely like to know if I had made an error and caused someone to have to clean up after me. I'd rather be shown the right way to do something than have someone silently fuming at me!
Perhaps rather than having to navigate to their profile to send a message, there could be an option right from the Librarian Change Log. It's recorded when a change is made, for the most part, so why not a "Contact this Librarian" link which would send a message to the user's inbox? Not sure how difficult that would be to set up, but it would be user-friendly.
Like Becky, I'm new. I really like the idea of a training document of some sort and wouldn't be against a quiz of some sort on the training material.I would be very upset with myself if I made changes that caused someone else a lot of work and would hope that I'd be contacted. I'd rather know the right way of doing something than 'think' I'm doing well but really just have someone cleaning up after me.
I think Becky's idea of a "Contact this librarian" link would work. It could be something similar to commenting on someone's review. I've used the comment section on a review to contact someone with a private profile when I had a question about that book. It works well as long as that person's account is set to receive email notifications when someone comments on their review. Maybe it could be "Comment on this edit?"I do think that some sort of training thing would be helpful.
I'm liking the idea of locking up authors/editions more and more. I try to keep an eye on authors I've cleaned up, but it's hard to immediately see everything. And who wants to keep redoing the same thing over and over?
JG, maybe one of the pre-requisites of being a Librarian is that you agree to accept messages from other Librarians, even if your profile is set to private...?
I like the idea of being able to comment on an edit -- it makes it very clear that this is a business-related message, not a "hey, we're both librarians, let's chat" kind of thing....
Aaaaaaaaaargh! That same unreachable librarian combined the books AGAIN. What is the point?
What if you put in a parenthetical that distiguishes them, i.e.A Handful of Darkness (15 Short Stories)
A Handful of Darkness (13 Short Stories)
Also, there is a note in the description that the two works contain a different number of stories, but it is at the end. Maybe putting it at the beginning would help...?
All good ideas. Thanks! Better than sitting here pulling my hair out anyway--I can't spare the hair!
SF SQRL wrote: "All good ideas. Thanks! Better than sitting here pulling my hair out anyway--I can't spare the hair!"It's possible that person is using the auto-combine feature on that author SF SQRL. And even though you added the distinction in parenthesis, the auto-combine feature will combine them. It doesn't take into account parenthesis.
Interesting points :). But iirc, auto-combine doesn't show up in the librarian log, therefore if it IS in the log, it wasn't auto-combined? am I right?
SF SQRL wrote: "Interesting points :). But iirc, auto-combine doesn't show up in the librarian log, therefore if it IS in the log, it wasn't auto-combined? am I right?"I've seen books auto-combined in the log...it just says they were combined.
Hmm. *scrit*Looking at the log for one of the Handful books, it has me separating it four times, without any record of combinations! I look like a manic separator :D.
SF SQRL wrote: "Hmm. *scrit*Looking at the log for one of the Handful books, it has me separating it four times, without any record of combinations! I look like a manic separator :D."
I just went back to the logs for the set of books I've had this happen to. The separator is only shown on 1 set of books, not the other 3. So I don't know what the deal is. And now that I'm looking at that one log, I'm pretty sure I've had to separate more times than it's showing.
So...all I know is that sometimes auto-combine shows (the person told me that's what they'd done, and it was in the log)
Ah, so it may even depend which edition you're looking at.Eh.
Cait wrote: "I like the idea of being able to comment on an edit -- it makes it very clear that this is a business-related message, not a "hey, we're both librarians, let's chat" kind of thing...."Good point.
I had a (slightly) new idea on this which might help. I wanted it in it's own suggestion thread, though, so I dropped it over here.
SF SQRL, if it makes you feel better, you know that other librarian is sitting in front of his or her computer going "That squirrel person separated these books AGAIN! AAARRGGGHHH!" :-)
SQRL, I sent a message to the librarian with the private profile, asking him to contact you before making any further changes to the PDK book.
So they've been combined again, this time by PetraX (who isn't accepting messages). Seriously, I'm wondering why I bother.
Petra's pretty active in these groups...I'm surprised she didn't read this thread (although maybe she did and forgot about it).
SF SQRL wrote: "So they've been combined again, this time by PetraX (who isn't accepting messages)."I'm here! What did I do wrong? I generally check GR at least once a day, so you could always find me.
I stopped accepting messages from any except friends because there is a very annoying person here who didn't like a comment I made and endlessly messaged me. Blocking the person did no good as they just set up another identity, and another ad infinitum. It was a while ago now so maybe I'll enable messages again.
SF SQRL wrote: "... Seriously, I'm wondering why I bother."OK, I see what I did. Separated! Sorry about that. I do try and make sure editions are the same and I'm always separating other people's mistakes. But they are just that, not terribly serious crimes so I am sorry I annoyed you.
I did propose (as I am sure many people have) a note visible only on the combine page that Librarians could make about notes anything they thought germane.
Mod
True, although Squirrel has had to fix this particular problem about half a dozen times, so some frustration is not unreasonable.
Yes I could see that. I only did it once though (I hope).
Sorry, Petra. I shouldn't have had a go at you :). I've made plenty mistakes here on GR too.
Thanks for this thread. I am a new librarian, too (actually not yet approved). Speaking as a newbie and something of an outsider (a fresh perspective?), I would have to concur that there should be some sort of log visible to anyone who does edits, with not only the edit information but the capacity to include a note as to why the edit was made. Otherwise, you will always have this see-saw of two (or more) persons making what they feel is the proper edit, then being undone by someone who just as firmly feels they are making the proper edit. Without a stated reason for the edit, we all will feel we are in the right, no matter how wrong we remain!
Mod
It exists, but many librarians don't look at it.
rivka wrote: "Reid wrote: "I would have to concur that there should be some sort of log visible to anyone who does edits, with not only the edit information but the capacity to include a note as to why the edit ..."I more had in mind what the other thread mentioned: a pop-up or other unmissable message. Not that it would stop the sloppy or ill-intentioned, but the well-intentioned might take notice. Thanks for your prompt post, by the way.
Mod
I just drive other librarians crazy before I do anything. I just propose this, or maybe that, or what about this, and how about this over here, and what about that way over there. Huh? Huh? Whadda ya think?When they stop answering me, I assume I'm okay.
Lindig wrote: "I just drive other librarians crazy before I do anything. I just propose this, or maybe that, or what about this, and how about this over here, and what about that way over there. Huh? Huh? Whadda ..."Or you've worn them out! ;-}
rivka wrote: "It would have to be a pretty smart pop-up. If something popped up EVERY time a librarian made a change, it would become background noise exceedingly rapidly."Good point.
Mod
And I and some others keep an eye on some potentially problematic librarians (mostly over-enthusiastic newbies). But sometimes it comes down to a difference of opinion, or just a simple mistake.
That's what keeps things fun around here, I guess. ;)
I'd like to add that, even considering all the mistakes, the work the librarians have done has overall vastly improved the site. The improvements outweigh the errors, by a lot.
Mod
Pats on the back all around! :D
Reid wrote: "Lindig wrote: "I just drive other librarians crazy before I do anything. I just propose this, or maybe that, or what about this, and how about this over here, and what about that way over there. Hu..."Or you've worn them out! ;-}
Well, yes, that too. Heh.
Would it be worth constructing some sort of "training" module that has to be completed before someone can become a librarian? Nothing outrageously hard, long, or complicated, but something which forces them to read some of the basic rules and regulations a little more closely and perhaps answer a simple quiz? (I've been thinking about it for a few days and can't decide if this would annoy me or not, so I'm throwing it out for consideration)"This would not have annoyed me when I was applying for librarian status. I didn't take the status for granted when I applied, like I should automatically be granted the rights. That's very likely how most wanna-be librarians think (or people who joined after things were change so not everyone could add books). I think this is a very good idea.
Goodreads Librarians Group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Taste of Ashes (other topics)Portrait in Smoke (other topics)
I have fun separating the latter every so often. But atm I can't communicate with the latest librarian who I think combined all three--http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/11... --as their profile is set to private. Maybe a superuser could drop them a line? Thanks!