A Dance with Dragons
discussion
So a few thoughts on A Dance With Dragons (possible spoilers)
P.Anika wrote: "The thing, that buggs me about Jon, is he got burn. Dragons shouldn't be effected by the fire, right?"Half dragon, half wolf? The dornish prince could control/soothe one of them for a little while.
Plus Jon's a warg, which would set him up nicly to slip his skin into a dragon.
I kept thinking about this too. When I was not thinking that Jon is the son of Ned and Ashara Dayne, (who turns out to be Barristan Selmys own true love, imagine that. (and who rumor has it is also Septa Lemore), I dither into Jon being the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. They did say that Arya and Jon look alike, and somebody said that Arya is the spitting image of Lyanna. Only thing that throws me off is the hair and the eyes. Targaryens have Silver Hair and Violet Eyes. Jon has neither. He also burned (which might be GRRM telling us something).
Alunsina wrote: "I kept thinking about this too. When I was not thinking that Jon is the son of Ned and Ashara Dayne, (who turns out to be Barristan Selmys own true love, imagine that. (and who rumor has it is also..."Viserys burned to death...and he was a dragon.
John looks like Lyanna, just like Arya, maybe he isn't half Targaryen but he isn't Ned's. Lannisters have blond hair, unless it's mixed with Baratheon...just a thought. Same may be said with dragons and wolves.
You are absolutly right about Septa Lamore which means she has the true Light Bringer.
How I can forget Viserys is beyond me. Lol. The blood is strong on the Baratheon line and it might be that it was Robert who raped Lyanna! OMG. Kidding.
You lost me on Septa Lemore ergo Lightbringer. We have 5 more years to discuss this. Tell me more!
:P
I tend to be in the "Ned/Ashara are Jon's Parents" party. However, if it were Rhaegar and Lyanna, I could totally see Jon riding the white dragon. As for getting burned, Dany picked the dragon who was fire incarnate. Perhaps it isn't necessary to be fireproof in order to ride the others? Perhaps, (see Viserys for evidence) not all Targaryens are flame retardant. Dany's just special in that regard.Oh, theories are so fun... now I'm tempted to reread the entire series just looking for evidence...
I think Dany might be fertile again.
The only problems I see with the numerous theories and plot lines out there (dragon riding bastards, twin bastard Targaryens, and the 97 other partially completed storylines- the Hound, Catelyn/Stoneheart, the Mountain/Ser Robert, Jaime & Brienne, Arya, little Ric, Bran, Gendry, Benjin, Manse, Sansa & Petyr & Catelyn ((something HAS to happen there...)) you get the idea...) is that that is a LOT of action to put in the remaining 2 books. I have nothing bad to say at all about GRRM's presentation of this world- I love it. But it does move slowly at times. Do you think the pace will increase to account for all these characters' stories, or is the conclusion of this series going to be like the end of Lost where everyone is staring at the screen/page going "...wtf?? what about _____!!"
Rosanna wrote: "I tend to be in the "Ned/Ashara are Jon's Parents" party. However, if it were Rhaegar and Lyanna, I could totally see Jon riding the white dragon. As for getting burned, Dany picked the dragon wh..."Uhh, wow, hadn't gotten to the end of lost...thanks. I for one like your idea of the re-read. If you ignore the plot and focus on the details i think it will resolve a lot of questions. Like the first chapter of DWD and Seven Skins, does Jon "warg" out? Is the spider actually a Faceless one? Is ser Loras faking the whole time. I don't know everything. In Littlefinger we trust? Probably not. Book 4 was a big set up. Book five a bigger one. I mean the most pivotal chaper was the last one. The spider was hanging arround the whole time to kill the only "good" Lannister, and Grand Maester!? The pace has to increas...two books? All i can hope for is more sex and violence, oh yeah and some good stuff with the book too.
Diver wrote: "Uhh, wow, hadn't gotten to the end of lost...thanks..." Sorry :(
stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS FATHER? I am so...shocked?
Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS FATHER? I am so...shocked?"It doesn't ever. I'm reading in to the context around the plot. It's just a theroy i've been working on. Jon looks like Arya, who is a spitting image of Lyanna. Lyanna was kidnaped by Rhaegar, the last thing that she said to Ned was "promise* me" Ned comes home with a baby boy...Who supposedly is his with another woman who may or may not be dead, he never talks about her, and told Jon that the next time they meet he'll tell him all about it. Obviously that never happened, but a few people in Westros know the truth. It's all about the song of fire and ice. Context~! Love your picture!
Rosanna wrote: " Diver wrote: "Uhh, wow, hadn't gotten to the end of lost...thanks..." Sorry :("
It's ok, i DVR'd it.
Rosanna wrote: "Do you think the pace will increase to account for all these characters' stories, or is the conclusion of this series going to be like the end of Lost where everyone is staring at the screen/page going "...wtf?? what about _____!!" "I hope it works out to answer the loose ends but I don't see that in 2 books unless his writing pace quickens. Short of that I could see more than 2 books or some 'hack job' leaving various plot lines unresolved.
Jp36 wrote: "Rosanna wrote: "Do you think the pace will increase to account for all these characters' stories, or is the conclusion of this series going to be like the end of Lost where everyone is staring at t..."It's not likely he'll leave any loose ends. I have been told that the series was originally supposed to only be three books, then three turned in to five and now five to seven, whose to say he won't do ten. I believe he'll write untill he's satisfied, and we all will read in awe and suspence.
Diver, don't take this the wrong way, but please learn how to spell the word "promise."
Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS FATHER? I am so...shocked?"It doesn'..."
Oh goodness. Sorry. Hehe, that's just my tired brain. And thank you! I have no idea where I found it. But it's awesome. Also, that is a very good theory...In GoT, Ned told Robert that Jon's mother was named Wylla, but since he was talking to Robert...
Will wrote: "Diver, don't take this the wrong way, but please learn how to spell the word "promise.""Sorry, I get going and don't bother to check the spelling, I'll be better in the future, I promise*.
Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS FATHER? I am so...shocked?..."I think he simply corrected what Robert was saying when the king misquoted Ned's dalience. The thing that i always fall back on was the promise that he made his sister..
“I will,” Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he’d paid to keep them."
We are led to believe, sort of, that he was swearing to take her home. What price could he have paid by bringing his sister to her final resting place.
Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS FATHER? I am ..."Now that you say it, yes. It makes sense, andI wouldn't be surprised if you were right. Well, you know when in ADwD how actually one of the Targaryans (I forget the name), but anyways, the child, was still alive...he had died his hair blue...anyways, it's clear that the other children could have possibly lived....
Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RHAEGAR WAS HIS..."I agree. I'm really excited to see what he has in store for us. GRRM has been quoted saying that he will reveal who Jons parents are. There's also a lot of hints when Dany goes in to the House of the Undying in Clash of Kings.
Like i've said earlier, i will be re-reading the series and focusing on the minor details... that's what you do when you get stuck on an island for weeks...
Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID IT SAY THAT RH..."Definitely. Also...oh my goodness...2 days (well basically 1) until season 2 comes out. I am sooo excited.
Jp36 wrote: I hope it works out to answer the loose ends but I don't see that in 2 books unless his writing pace quickens. Short of that I could see more than 2 books or some 'hack job' leaving various plot lines unresolved. "Well then I will hope for more books. Unresolved plots would be more than I could bare. I think (I hope) he won't change his writing style. I'd love it if we could see a book every three years (300pp/year?) but the man has a life to live outside of Westeros, so I won't complain if they're 1 per 5 years... I'll just know the first 5 by heart before #6 hits the shelves. :)
Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, but: WHERE DID ..."Thank god Tyrian lives so long, so Peter Dinklage can collect more awards!
Rosanna wrote: "Jp36 wrote: I hope it works out to answer the loose ends but I don't see that in 2 books unless his writing pace quickens. Short of that I could see more than 2 books or some 'hack job' leaving var..."Definatly, there is so much more to learn by reading them again, it helps to brain storm with friends too!! The first thing i'll be re-reading is the House of the Undying.
Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds really stupid, bu..."heehee yeah! He's so great.
Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "Diver wrote: "Ruby wrote: "stop the madness. I've read the book, but it's been a while. I'm sorry if this sounds rea..."I'd watch a spin off if it were just him and Bronn...
yes, I totally need to reread the house of the undying. Dany's story... I don't want to say it became boring for me, but shortly before that part, her chapters became the ones I would zone out on. (I still miss Khal Drogo...)
I know. Dany...well, in ADwD, Dany became sort of passive.
In GoT she was one of my favorites. Since then- I know it's not a fair statement, and had I paid better attention I would know as much even better- Dany's story doesn't progress too much. I don't care which desert she's in or how many slaves she's freed, whether she'll buy this ship or that one. ( I do care that she will be a great ruler someday... she's not doing a bad job at all considering her age and upbringing- and I respect that it takes time to learn how to rule wisely). She isn't in Westeros, therefore she isn't a top priority to me. with the dragons coming of age, I had hope for her storyline. then she goes and marries what's-his-face... really? WHY? just sail west, already. the title for book 5 had me hoping to see Dany's story move along. I'll just keep hoping... (also, random, the names of many in her POV bother me- Brown Ben Plum? I see prunes.)
Rosanna wrote: "In GoT she was one of my favorites. Since then- I know it's not a fair statement, and had I paid better attention I would know as much even better- Dany's story doesn't progress too much. I don't c..."Yeah, exactly. I agree.
Rosanna wrote: "In GoT she was one of my favorites. Since then- I know it's not a fair statement, and had I paid better attention I would know as much even better- Dany's story doesn't progress too much. I don't c..."couldn't agree more
Tyrion and Jorah was a highlight for me.
Knightstocker wrote: "Tyrion and Jorah was a highlight for me."It was a great contrast in the whole book, especially since Tyrion and Joer got along so well..
Well Tyrion seems to get along with evryone (except maybe his sister, and even they have a certain chemistry) It was good to see two characters that I didn't think would meet actually interact with each other. Also when Sam meets Arya. I wanted her to tell him who she was so bad!
Yep me too! I almost hit her on the head! Lol.
Knightstocker wrote: "Well Tyrion seems to get along with evryone (except maybe his sister, and even they have a certain chemistry) It was good to see two characters that I didn't think would meet actually interact with..."I'm just waiting for Sam to meet Sansa!
I was thinking.. all the talk about the "dragon has 3 heads" and the likely conclusion that Dany and Aegon are 2 of them.. the third could possibly be Jon Snow. Looking at that I never stop thinking about Stanis. Could Melisandre be so wrong? She said many times that she might misinterpret things, but she is sure Stanis will seat the iron throne. And in the TV series Stanis actually seem to have a glimpse of himself as king. At some point of the story I remember there was a talk about how the Baratheons have a bit of dragon blood in them. So, is it too unlikely that Stanis might be the 3rd head or at least sit the iron throne "for a while"? Another point: what if Dany simply decided not to go and help "prince Aegon"? She has the dragons. Apparently she can deal with them. Even if she decided to support Aegon's cause, she is the "mother of dragons" and I realy doubt a man (Aegon) is likely to accept the rule of a woman. My point is she would always be more powerful than him cause she has the true dragon control e power.
Ana wrote: "I was thinking.. all the talk about the "dragon has 3 heads" and the likely conclusion that Dany and Aegon are 2 of them.. the third could possibly be Jon Snow. Looking at that I never stop thinkin..."Before I respond, have you finished book five? (My response involves major spoilers so I dont want to accidentally ruin things for you.)
Rosanna, just use the HTML spoiler tag.
well, maybe I remembered wrong, but didn't stanis die? I know that means little, since Jon died but I refuse to believe he's dead, but if he killed of stanis, I'm pretty sure he's going to stay dead.
And let me apologize now for my syntax, grammar, punctuation and lack of html code. I'm typing via my phone. ^.^
You should know by now to not trust that anyone is dead. Especially when it's from the words of other characters.
Especially from THAT character^^ I don't know.. I have this feeling that he will stay longer in the story.
I think so as well, but I'm also not convinced that he will ever sit on the throne. I think Melisandre sees what she wants to see in her fires, much like any religion of today, where the leaders claim to speak in the voice of god.
I think the old gods are more likely the real deal than any of the others. I'm strongly advocating the return of Jon, and doubtful of Stanis' return in his typical form. now, if he becomes something else, that's a possibility. but personally I doubt he will ride a dragon. great thinking, though. I hadn't even considered it until you mentioned it. :)
I do agree with you on the view that Melisandre might be mistaken. The only thing is they allowed that scene in the TV show where he sees himself in the iron throne. Why would the author allow that? Maybe when he knows about Daenerys he will come to support her claim and, who knows, become the Hand?!! THAT would make him seat the iron throne every once in a while LOL!
I would not put it past Mr. Martin in the least to do some fake foreshadowing just to screw with his audience. This series is so fun, in part because its unpredictable. at least for me. Which is why I'm here, guessing what's going to happen next. You could be completely right, but I think in the end, none of us will expect what he throws at us.
Ana wrote: "The only thing is they allowed that scene in the TV show where he sees himself in the iron throne. Why would the author allow that?"I mean, don't you think he wants to see himself on the Iron Throne? I just doubt that it has any significant meaning beyond his own desires, and I also doubt it holds any prophetic significance.
I just don't see Stannis as a leader, and he certainly doesn't hold a great amount of love from his people, aside from the Davos. Most follow out of duty, it was Renly the people loved until Melisandre took care of that.
Don't get me wrong. I was just trying to find Stanis a bigger part in the plot. Personally I don't believe he is one of the 3 heads. But I do believe he could still have a greater part in the story. And of course Jon didn't die "for good". He can't be. It would be a waste of a really good character. It would be a true mistake. ^^Anyway, I was just wondering and trying to see hints everywhere because the books are unpredictable. And, same as you, this is the reason they are so wonderful in my opinion. I'm also very intrigued about the animals, like the Old Bear/Jon's crow. I could bet there is some warg "living" in that bird.
And what about the cat without an ear, in King's Landing? Since Arya was chasing cats he was described. Every once in a while he's back again. Well, in this case I do believe he is just a tomcat... but it's fun to guess stuff!!
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A few of my friends and i have come up with a few ideas. Oh by the way, there may or may not be some SPOILERS.
Jon Snow is half dragon. Ned is his uncle. Think of what Lyannna said to Ned befor she died. "Promise* me Ned." Promise* that Ned would never tell that Jon's father was Rhaegar Targyrean. Because, Robert would have killed Jon. Only Ned and Howland Reed knew. Ned loved his sister so much he promised to keep the secret and the kid as his own.
Which I forsee him being a possible dragon rider. I believe that Jon's obligation to the nights watch is over, obviously...with the stabbing.
Also, I think Danys may be able to have children again, just a thought.
Your thoughts?