Hardcore Faith discussion
Introductions
Justin wrote: "Hi-ho, all! I am brand new to goodreads and was ultra excited to find this group! My name is Justin Joe Sherman, and I cast aside my pharmacist cloak during the day to read (and sometimes even wr..."I'm also tired of the anit-Christian perspective in a lot of contemp novels out there. It's in crime fiction too. If there's a Christian character in many contemp crime fic novels they're the murderer, or they're awful people.
John Connolly is horrid. He writes paranormal crime fiction. His hero is a PI who has two gay hitman friends. The hitmen are depicted as wonderful...and they kill people. The "badguy killer" is a evangelical, nazi-like preacher. And the author carries this theme into more than one novelin the series.
Justin wrote: "So sorry! I just read my intro in context with everyone else's, and I am very embarrassed. Too much, sorry. Can I close the door behind me and knock politely this time?"I didn't see anything wrong w/your intro. :)
Nike wrote: "Justin wrote: "So sorry! I just read my intro in context with everyone else's, and I am very embarrassed. Too much, sorry. Can I close the door behind me and knock politely this time?"I didn't..."
Hi, Justin-
I saw nothing wrong with your introduction, either!
I'm glad to have you here with us.:)
And BTW, have you read Adam by Ted Dekker? Later in the month, Tracy and I plan on reading it together, and you're certainly welcome to join us (the invitation's open to anyone, actually.:))
Nike - thanks for the heads-up on Connolly. I've never read any of his books. Creative characterization is important, but to me the "oh, shocker, the bad guy was the preacher/priest all along!" is not even fresh - let alone something I'd want to read. My favorite crime fiction so far has been from the late Robert B. Parker's Spenser novels, mostly due to his wonderful use of dialogue. Then again, maybe I've not read enough in the field. Do you have any suggestions for crime fiction?
Dustin - I haven't read Adam, but I have read Three and Boneman's Daughters, which I enjoyed very much. Some of Dekker's, though, I've started and not been able to finish. The Tension is always great, but sometimes the speed leaves me in the dust and wanting more characterization. I'm finishing The Resurrection by Mike Duran, now, and really into it. I'll see if I can get my hands on Adam, if you are going to start it later in the month, and join you reading it.
I hope you're able to join us, Justin!
Justin wrote: "Nike - thanks for the heads-up on Connolly. I've never read any of his books. Creative characterization is important, but to me the "oh, shocker, the bad guy was the preacher/priest all along!" i..."In Christian crime fiction J. Mark Bertrand in this order.
Back On Murder
Pattern of WoundsHe has a third one out. I've got it but haven't read it yet.
Steven James Patrick Bowers series...about an FBI agent who hunts serial killers...past gritty and into gory. Well, the subject matter...
The Pawn
The Rook
The Knight (won the Inspy Awards Mystery/Thriller category in 2010 I think it was)In general Market...
Stone Angel (this author has some strange stuff going on in her novels, good writer)
Shell GameIf you like PI stories w/dark or sarcastic humor the Elvis Cole series by Robert Crais. Start at book #1. They're all good.
Monkey's RaincoatIf you like a noir police detective with personal demons, Michael Connelly's Harry Bosch series. Connelly was the crime beat reporter for the LA times for 25 years. On this one start w/#1 too. There are characters that reprise in the later novels and they grow w/Harry.
Angel's Flight (the first one or close to it)
Void Moon
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Jason wrote: "Personally, I love the Patrick Bowers Files from Steven James (can't wait for Opening Moves to come out, let The King and Checkmate)."Me too...me three. LOL
Hi, I'm Robin (obviously), and I'm excited to find this group because I want more moral support for the fiction I have been working on. I've gotten a lot of flack from other Christians when I say I'm writing about vampires--even, and possibly especially, if I say the stories have a Christian message. People make all kinds of assumptions, from thinking the vampires are Christian, to thinking I believe vampires are good, to thinking I believe vampires are real, to thinking I believe I'm a vampire myself! Their underlying theme is that I am evil-hearted and sinful for undertaking such a project and that I must repent from writing about such a subject. Here, I hope I don't have to be defensive, although I enjoy laying out my thoughts over the matter. Of course, few if any of those who make such criticisms have ever read Bram Stoker's Dracula and noted the relatively Christian message within. I wondered for a while whether such a genre as Christian horror even existed. This group will help me to explore the category and find more books and publishers in it. Thanks, everybody. Looking forward to getting to know you all.
Hi Robin, it's nice to meet you. Most Christians think Stephen King is Satan himself. I don't think many of those who pass judgement has ever even read a horror book before. Ted Dekker is a wonderful Christian based author and many of his novels are horror. You can listen to what other people say but you can't take everything to heart. Glad you are with us.
Hi, Robin, it's so great to have you with us! Welcome to the group!!You are right: there's absolutely no need to be defensive around us.
Per Tracy's recommendation, have you read any of Ted Dekker's work? While reading your post, I immediately thought of his Circle series, which I think is most excellent and EPIC. I really cannot rave about it highly or often enough!!
No, I don't think I'd heard of Dekker before joining this group. I'll have to check him out. Not too long ago, I read Frank Peretti's "Monster." That was fun. I have struggled with wondering what genre my novel is (besides YA), because, although it concerns a vampire and it has some scary aspects and scenes, it's primary purpose is not to frighten. I read somewhere that that's what horror is, and I'm not sure I agree. I'm not into Freddy Kruger or anything. I like Stephen King; I think he's a very good writer. I haven't read a lot of horror in general, though. In the past, I read and wrote a lot of fantasy, but it seemed as time went on that fantasies became shallower with time. How much of this was a change in the books and how much a change in me, I don't know. But I came to take it to heart that the Bible forbids magic, so only characters who are disobedient to God would do it. With my vampire stories, I feel I'm writing more moral stuff because it's only the bad guys that are doing magic--or if the good guys try it, not knowing better, it backfires on them. Ironically, the same people who condemn my vampire stories condone and love fantasy stories in which the good guys do magic. Can't say I don't like reading or watching those stories, because I love the wonder and symbolism of the better ones, but I don't write them anymore. That left me praying for books to write that wouldn't compromise God's truth and would glorify Him. Then I had this dream that laid out the beginnings of a certain plot, and then I immediately dreamed I was telling a teen friend that I had had this dream and that it was a good idea for a novel. I've had dreams that gave me ideas for stories before, but never any that actually stated that was what they were for. Then I thought about the question the dream raised, and when the answer occurred to me, I said, "This has got to be written and shared with people." The project has taken a very long time as far as others judge the writing of books, interrupted by a lot of other uses of my time. I have to admit that the lack of moral support is part of what has slowed me down. It's nice to think it doesn't matter what people think and that I don't need anyone but God and myself, but I do need other people and a sense of hope.That said, how would the rest of you define horror? How does it differ from dark fantasy?
Robin Layne wrote: "Hi, I'm Robin (obviously), and I'm excited to find this group because I want more moral support for the fiction I have been working on. I've gotten a lot of flack from other Christians when I say I..."Welcome, Robin! It's good to see more Christian "horror nuts" joining the group!
If you're a fan of vampire novels, you might wanna check out Immanuel's Veins by Ted Dekker. (We tend to obsess over his books in this neck of the literary woods, in case you couldn't tell.)
I'm not really sure what the difference between horror and dark fantasy is. Perhaps horror is, shall we say, more horrifying?
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It. Very funny! Hm, the title of the Dekker book sounds like Dekker might have already tackled the theme I'm attempting. My novel is called "Blood of the Willing," and it takes a long time for its four non-Christian teen heroes to discover such blood is needed to solve the problem, whose blood it has to be, and how it can be accessed. I am trying to weave hints of Christianity into the story throughout so that the theme doesn't hit them like a jackhammer in the last sections of the book, but it's hard because, like I say, these characters aren't Christians yet. I also don't want to slow down the action even more than it already is with influences and reflections that seem irrelevant to the characters at the time. Open to suggestions, of course.
In reference to detective novels in which the murderer always turns up to be a Christian/pastor/priest, I haven't read any of those--not into murder mysteries, as they seem so formulaic and such a cold, intellectual approach to a subject that ought to really upset a reader--but it fits as part of a trend to villainize and so criminalize Christians worldwide so that the (soon-to-be-worldwide) government and all "good, loyal citizens" can snatch away all their rights and destroy them. The movement is so overwhelming it has brainwashed my own daughter, even though I raised her as a Christian. We needn't read "Left Behind" to see the nightmares prophesied taking place. We only have to open our eyes and look around us.At the same time, God is pouring out His Spirit on all flesh and doing greater miracles than ever before. The media ignores these things at present, permitting many to go on being atheists because they think there is no proof that God exists. I believe that it is not all dark and gloomy in the last days because God is using His people and angels to spread His glory throughout the world before the end comes. So there are no more exciting times in which to live. Horror and wonder can live in the same world, the same lives, and the same stories at once. It is an exciting time to be a writer, and an exciting privilege to be chosen to write in this genre.
Robin Layne wrote: "In reference to detective novels in which the murderer always turns up to be a Christian/pastor/priest, I haven't read any of those--not into murder mysteries, as they seem so formulaic and such a ..."Wow, you are spot-on, Robin! Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU so very much!!
That one was for free. Next time you'll have to pay. Mwahahahaha!
Robin Layne wrote: "That one was for free. Next time you'll have to pay. Mwahahahaha!":)
First and foremost, this group is great even though I am not active. I joined since the very beginning and I like reading about the books and what people thought of them. ~My name is NSA and Christian Horror is one of my favorite genres, right next to fantasy. My favorite authors are: Ted Dekkar, Frank Peretti, Robert Liparulo, Travis Thrasher, and Randy Alcorn (Who's read Deadline?).
Sorry I haven't posted anything for a while and hopefully I will get to some of the suggested reads.
*Also can you guys check out a short ghost story I wrote? Thanks. http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/3...*
Hi, NSA. I haven't been very active in Goodreads at all lately, except for occasional blogposts and weekly installments of a short story, because of busy things going on in my life. Good to hear you are active in reading and writing the genre, and hope I will have the time to read your story. Right now I have to get off and read bunches and bunches of homework before my midterm, which is somewhat different from a ghost story, but the idea will haunt me until the work is done.
Hello, I have done something very naughty, and asked to be included in a promo before I even introduced myself. Please forgive me. Thank you, Nike, for bearing with me. I am Mary C. Findley, and I have been writing for over 30 years and publishing about 4. I'm from upstate New York, and I'd love to have you join me for tea and mechanicals at my Sophronia Belle Lyon Author page. My book will be free tomorrow and Wednesday and likes would be much appreciated. https://www.facebook.com/SophroniaBel...
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Happy to see that! I have been looking for Christian groups to join that are "out of the ordinary!"
Mary wrote: "Happy to see that! I have been looking for Christian groups to join that are "out of the ordinary!""It's great to have you here with us, Mary!
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Almost two months ago, I submitted a poem to International Who's Who in Poetry 2012 and my poem got selected! It's called "Soulless Sanctuary", dealing with the stark contrast between cold religion, and warm acceptance and a woman with a past that shows the revelations between the two and how she reacts to both.
WOW, that is AWESOME, Jason!! I'm very happy for you, man! Thank you so much for sharing!
Jason wrote: "Hey all! Just wanted you all to be the first on this site to know something really cool.Almost two months ago, I submitted a poem to International Who's Who in Poetry 2012 and my poem got selected..."
Congratulations! That's exciting!
Hi, my name is Ardy. I'm a horror author and a Christian and was very surprised and pleased to find this group here on gr. I've been a fan of horror novels since reading Stephen King's The Stand and a fan of Christian horror since my dad read me This Present Darkness when I was a kid. I enjoy lots of different kinds of literature, but especially horror, and especially that horror, like King's work, The Omen, and The Exorcist that tell horrific stories with strong Christian themes. It is something that I like to incorporate into my works often. One novel I wrote, a darkish Christian fantasy called Dawn is Coming, has some of the scariest parts of anything I have published, and my vampire novel Akeldama: The Field of Blood, while not a "Christian" piece, has very strong Christian themes. I've always believed that there was a place in the Christian literary world for horror, as has been proven with the success of writers like Ted Dekker and Frank Peretti and the fact that books like The Stand and Desperation are so successful proves that the horror world can embrace even the most obvious Christian undertones. BTW, I was raised by a former witch and a former exorcist in the Satanic Church (now a Free Methodist Pastor) so I know that the elements of what we consider horror fiction are all too true sometimes.
My books can be found at https://www.smashwords.com/profile/vi... and my website is http://ardybooks.simplesite.com/17078...
Look forward to some great dicussions here.
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Robin wrote: "In reference to detective novels in which the murderer always turns up to be a Christian/pastor/priest, I haven't read any of those--not into murder mysteries, as they seem so formulaic and such a ..."This is not a comment about you because my daughter is in public HS...though I had her in Christian school and homeschooling in elementary school. She was adopted at age 6 and had some very early idea set into her head in her bio-home and in foster care. She is not really a Christian though she knows it's the real way. She's mad at God and doesn't see His goodness because of the early abuse that happened to her and her sisters.
But here's my point...why do so many serious, blood bought Christians keep their children in public school? It's a proven fact that the public schools will pressure them to leave the faith. The teachers will insinuate that the parents aren't that smart and Christianity if for dummies and lames. And if the kid gets into the hands of a school counselor for any reason it's even worse antiChristianity.
Ardy wrote: "Hi, my name is Ardy. I'm a horror author and a Christian and was very surprised and pleased to find this group here on gr. I've been a fan of horror novels since reading Stephen King's The Stand an..."I replied to you somewhere else here I think, but if you'd like be to showcase your novel on my annual All Hallows Eve/Halloween Christian Horror Novel Fest message me here on Goodreads.
Hello, everyone. I'm Mike, and I'm a horror author from the Chicago area. I'm looking forward to being a part of the group, and to meeting other people who enjoy books that aren't afraid to mix the light with the dark.
My first published novel, Try Not to Burn, is about a police officer who died and went to Hell, and is now trying to figure out a way to not only redeem his sins, but escape from the afterlife, as well.
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Jason wrote: "Sorry to take a long time to get back, but glad you're here with us, Michael. Honestly, your book's premise does sound intriguing."Thank you very much, Jason. :)
Nike wrote: "Robin wrote: "In reference to detective novels in which the murderer always turns up to be a Christian/pastor/priest, I haven't read any of those--not into murder mysteries, as they seem so formula..."Hello, everyone! Long time, no contact!
I haven't seen a lot of posts on this group, so I didn't see this one until just now. Nike, I didn't want to raise my daughter in the public school, but I was poor, and private schools cost money I didn't have. I didn't try homeschooling because I and my daughter were very isolated and she was high-strung with ADHD and there was no way I could get her to sit still while I taught her by myself. There simply was no support that I knew about. The only Christian school I knew of was in a little Lutheran church we once went to, and I couldn't even get childcare for her during the Sunday service when she was little. Yeah, I wish I had tried hard to get a scholarship for her to go there. But would it have been any better? I have no way of knowing. The church did not treat my daughter well, and Satan blew it all out of proportion in her heart, as I believe. She has abandoned the faith and some of the morals she was taught. And she moved far away. We talk online sometimes, but I don't talk to her about God because people have told me it'll just push her farther away from Him.
I would like to look into the books mentioned above. Good to see some activity in this group. I was afraid it was totally abandoned.
I didn't do much on my vampire novel for some time; now I'm back on working on it a lot, thanks to a skills class I'm taking asking us to set up steps toward a long-term goal and actually do them. It is helping me to guide and inspire myself with tools that help me see the whole novel rather than just chapters or scenes at a time. I have been working on character emotional arcs to go with the novel's premise, on improving the extended synopsis I wrote for my own use (which includes a description of every scene in every chapter), reordering some of the events on that synopsis to help them make better sense, and re-writing some of the chapters. The premise is: Mercy triumphs over judgment--or Compassion toward an enemy pays off...even when that enemy is a murderous vampire. (Time was when one wouldn't have to add the word "murderous," but these days vampires have taken on quite a range of moral levels.) It really helps to focus my work around this premise so I'm not just meandering and getting lost. My story is too long. Someone suggested I break it into two books, but I've been told when you do a series (which I intend) it's best for the first book to work as a stand-alone, in case the next books are not successful. I really don't know where the two books would be split if I did that. I assumed I just would be cutting a lot of unnecessary parts in my rewrite.
I had a "locker" in the YA group, but it has apparently been erased, along with almost everyone else's private section. I don't know what those big groups can offer me now, although they were recommended to me.
Oh, and I got an e-reader as a Christmas present, but it's a Nook and therefore may be close to useless for getting free or low-priced new books. I haven't registered it yet because I was daunted by the 74-page terms of service. I got through page 35 in one sitting and never picked up the device again.
I started reading "The Sociopath Next Door" recently. It defines sociopaths/psychopaths as people who have no conscience. Didn't get far before the book mysteriously disappeared. Ordered it from a different library so I can continue to read it. I know from scripture that some people have consciences seared by red hot irons, but whether people can be born that way or become that way very young is a disturbing question to say the least. Such people make interesting characters for writers.
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I've been told of another book I have yet to read, called "The Lucifer Effect." It shows examples of ordinary people becoming extraordinary cruel under certain circumstances--such as an experiment that set up a pseudo-prison. The guards so traumatized the prisoners the experiment had to be cut short. The guards said they were just playing the game, but the prisoners said they were afraid of them.
Hardcore Faith
Books mentioned in this topic
The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil (other topics)The Sociopath Next Door (other topics)
Immanuel's Veins (other topics)
Back on Murder (other topics)
Stone Angel (other topics)
More...
Jason - Thanks, glad to have found the group. Looking forward to some interesting conversations!