The Sword and Laser discussion
Mass Effect as good science fiction
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I'm half way throguh Mass Effect 2 - as a writer I am looking at the construction of the characters and storyline, as well as shooting the hell out of collectors and other perps! I think the story is very good so far, entertaining, complex, and it keeps me on my toes in terms of trying to figure out how to deal with these different characters - so I think I agree with you, the stroy line from this game is better than a lot of written sci fi fiction
I love Mass Effect. Obviously introduced to the world as a game. I've played both games for a total of around 130 hours and I'm totally invested into the universe. I've read the first 3 novels and I really enjoyed them. I've stayed away from the graphic novels as they aren't my favorite things and the 4th novel because some frankly horrible reviews. To me Mass Effect is the most interesting Sci-fi universe to date. I love the fact Shepard is totally customizable to be the most relatable character he or she can be. I'd really enjoy some more novels made about the universe.
I completely agree with you guys, compare the depth of character development in the ME series to the Matrix or some other blockbuster SF franchise and ME wins by a mile. In fact, I often describe the ME games as being the closest thing yet to living a great scifi movie where you experienced the personal emotional context wrapped up in each major choice. However, ME is exceptional in this quality, Gears of War didnt leave me with much emotional context other than boredom.Another interesting wrinkle is that each persons game becomes unique, I first noticed this when talking with people about Fallout and how each person had their own unique narrative created simply by the variety of choices people made to go after different missions. Lately I have been hearing the phrase "My Shepard" quite a bit, even outside of podcasts
I don't view the Mass Effects as I would novels I view them more as a really good movie. Like a choose your own adventure movie.My friends at work laugh at me because I try to describe my feelings that this game invokes when it comes to my connection to the other characters in the game. Like recently there was a scene where one of the characters died and just like in a movie they played the moving music and I swear I almost shed a tear.
I love games that allow me to play females. Because when I role play I am not that creative at playing a different gender then what I am. I have been a gamer along time and have played alot of RPGs and the majority have had male protagonists and while they had excellent stories I did not get as invested in the relationships in the game with other characters because it was not me. I did not put myself in the game. So when I lose someone or talk to them I am connected.
I am going to say it the Mass Effect games are my top game picks. I have the same emotional connection / love I have for one of my favorite books.
I do consider the Mass Effect series some of the best games out there. (Full disclosure: I haven't played ME3 yet.) Which is why I'm saddened such a great story has such glaring flaws.Adrian wrote: "The only real problem with ME as a series is that sometimes the needs of gameplay supersede the needs of the story. "
This is the big one, and can be laid at the feet of the Paragon/Renegade system. There are several heavy decisions in the games that have many shades of grey and could be explored in multiple ways with diverse consequences. Instead, most are reduced to a binary game mechanic that's heavily influenced by metagame thinking (ie, if you don't play a fully Paragon or fully Renegade run, you basically cripple Shepard's future decisions), and often the choice is between naive idealism and moronic dickery. The end of ME2 was the worst for me. In contrast, the decisions in the Dragon Age series seem a lot more nuanced and grey, and in something like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, they feel a lot more real and consequential.
My other main problem is the main plot of ME2. Which is unfortunate, because almost all the squad recruitment and loyalty missions ranged from quite good to amazingly awesome. But anything that involved Cerberus or the Collectors was just stupid. Almost nothing about them was logical. To make it worse, half the NPCs call you out on working for Cerberus, but you're never allowed the option to leave. I haven't played ME3 yet but from what I've heard, it almost dismisses your tenure with Cerberus as just a bad dream, so even the developers may have come to the realization it was a stupid plot.
Although Mass Effect has a fantastic story line and some very interesting and well developed characters, having only played ME3 so far I have to say the writing itself, i.e. the dialogue/interaction between characters is rather...dull?I see this great hero Shepard talking to various people, aliens etc and it just seems boring and rather plain to me.
As this isn't a game review forum, and we're looking at Mass Effect as good science fiction I won't go into the brilliant other aspects of the game itself (design, gameplay etc), for me it seems a little cliched and unspectacular.
Though of course, that's not why most people play games. :D
Joseph wrote: "Although Mass Effect has a fantastic story line and some very interesting and well developed characters, having only played ME3 so far I have to say the writing itself, i.e. the dialogue/interactio..."Why did you start at ME3?
Joseph wrote: "Although Mass Effect has a fantastic story line and some very interesting and well developed characters, having only played ME3 so far I have to say the writing itself, i.e. the dialogue/interactio..."I've had trouble with most RPG dialogue, dating back to when it was just text. The problem for me is that despite the efforts they've gone to to make the process more interactive, you're still mostly playing or talking in separate chunks. Wading through text or dialogue between two heads isn't interesting, but then neither is watching a cutscene. I've tried to fully immerse and never hit a skip button, but my God...I usually go right back to blazing through the text and skipping the voices.
I'm much more keen on the dialogue that comes during gameplay, like in something like Infamous. Not saying that had great dialogue, but it had more of its dialogue coming through while you were running around. It was mostly radio chatter, but still. Prince of Persia is another successful example, where you had your princess friend running around and that great shift from loathing to loving in their relationship, but then that had a relatively simple plot.
Joseph wrote: "Although Mass Effect has a fantastic story line and some very interesting and well developed characters, having only played ME3 so far I have to say the writing itself, i.e. the dialogue/interaction between characters is rather...dull?"Clunky. Awkward, especially in some of the romantic scenes. I agree with just about everything that's been said -- the Mass Effect series has pulled me into the story emotionally in a way I've not experienced in film in a very long time. But some of the dialogue choices make me squirm.
That said, if ANYONE messes with Liara, they'll have my Angry Shep to deal with
Joseph wrote: "Although Mass Effect has a fantastic story line and some very interesting and well developed characters, having only played ME3 so far I have to say the writing itself, i.e. the dialogue/interactio..."It was a friends copy, they let me borrow it. :)
I have high hopes and low expectations for the film adaptation of a story this intense and complex. Adrian wrote: "The only real problem with ME as a series is that sometimes the needs of gameplay supersede the needs of the story."
I solved this problem by playing the first game 3x and the second one 10x. (On my second play of ME3) I mean c'mon. Who doesn't have an extra 1,000 or so hours on their hands?
I think the games are amazing story telling for video games. The character imports between games is a great new way to tell stories.In the first game however the computer at the end that fills in the whole mystery in like 10 minutes of dialogue stands out as being pretty lame.
To comment on the ending, because it was brough up in the most recent episode. Having actual endings in Video games, and not "to be continued," is actually pretty rare. The first two chapters in this trilogy end with a promise that the story continues with your character and all that he does is remembered to the next game. This last one is an ending. The story of Sheppard and his friends, ends here. The world may get used again, you may see side stories, but that story is done. It ends and that is pretty awesome. It is also, apparently, not what some people want.
The real point of contention seems to boil down to the fact that this is an actual ending. Your choices have been made and you will not see what comes next. This bothers some people.
It bothered people with Sherlock Holmes when Doyle killed the character. It bothered people when Firefly ended. We like our serialized and recurring heroes. Comic books superheroes are proof of that. There is nothing wrong with that.
The caveat to that is that, in fiction, in stories, endings have power. Not every story needs to be quite as final, but there should be some that are. Mass Effect 3 is the kind of story that apparently needed that final ending. It's scope was epic, sacrifices were made, and the galaxy is changed. There are some minor issues with continuity, but it was a good and satisfying end to the series.
Don't take that to mean that I don't want more in that universe. I look forward to the future DLC for the game. I am certain in a couple of years we will hear about new game set at different time in the same universe. I will of course buy those and love it. I am just saying that I am satisfied with this ending.
As to the dialog concern, I will agree the quality of the dialog is variable. Mass Effect 3 has some of the best of the series, though. There is a lot more subtlety to be found there. Also, it takes some real talent to write dialog so it sounds like romantic tension if you want it too, but can still stand as reasonable friendly or familiar professionals if you are not looking for the romantic tension.
I should add, this is the first video game to ever make me tear up over the death of a character.
There is a lot of good stuff laid out in this universe. What I think makes it so strong is that even after (or perhaps even forgetting) the Shepard story, there is enough meat here to explore other characters and stories in a variety of mediums. The foundation that is put in place for the protheans and the relations of all of the races is very good. There is also plenty of good history to draw upon too like the rachni wars, etc. The Black Library makes a living off of stories around a single universe and a set of battles. Certainly it could be well done in the Mass Effect universe too.
Jeremiah wrote: "I should add, this is the first video game to ever make me tear up over the death of a character."I can't admit to tearing up, but there were some scenes that definitely evoked an emotional response from me.
You won't actually jump off the cliff. You jumped off the cliff!
I think I'm about half way through and I'm itching to get back to it.
It deals with some really heady concepts, such as the true definition of intelligent life, the nature of free will, the egocentric way we look at our selves, and all of that embedded in a high adventure epic story. The presentation of characters reflects a range of not found in a lot of media. The level detail is deep enough that you can't know all of it, which is nice for verisimilitude. All in all it is everythign I would want a scifi series to be. Am I alone in thinking of it in that light?
Sadly, the actual novels set in the world are not as well told as the games. They are not terrible, but they are not really outstanding either.