Pandemonium
discussion
Alex or Julian???

Here is what I come up with for why their relationship is a complete and utter joke:
1. They know bits and pieces of each other.
Alex and Lena knew EVERYTHING about each other. Yes I know Lena's previous life was "dead" but if I really loved a person I would tell them at least a little about why I am the way I am.
2. Lena feels an overwhelming need to protect Julian and is confusing it with love. Lena and Julian had to survive by protecting each other and is confusing it with love.
3. Lena's love just "died" and she was emotionally desperate she would have fell in love with a pole at that point. Julian hadn't even touched a girl before and was trapped in a cell for days of course feelings were going to develop.
4. Pity pure pity. Julian is just a big bucket of blue-eyed pity I'm sorry but he is. He had brain tumors when he was little, his relationship with his father isn't exactly a hallmark card, his brother "dying" (yes I put quotes because you know Tack's his brother but that's another day and discussion), and the fact he has to be cured even though its going to kill him. Lena felt pity for little fella and again CONFUSING it with love.
5. They never just spent time together getting to know each other. Julian and Lena never spent one moment together without someone trying to kill them. Alex and Lena spent time together getting to know each other becoming best friends and falling in love. They had a true connection one that was lacking in Julian and Lena's relationship.
6. Julian knows how much Alex means to Lena. Like when they were sleeping in the cell and Lena woke up screaming Alex's name. Julian knows Lena's in love with Alex.
7. I love you remember they cannot take it. . .that's pretty self explanatory. Lena and Julian never said I love you to each other it was IMPLIED but they never said it. Alex and Lena said it....twice :)

Here is what I come up with for why their relationship..."
I get your reason for saying those things i just dont agree with any of them, end of, i would argue every point but i dont want to change your mind, your entitled to your own opinion, if it makes you happy we could just say that Lena gets Alex and I get Julian, fair? ;) xxx

Who cares about his "eyes"? Alex's hair is fiercly awesome!!! Who's with me?..."
Im not offended dont worry, and true auburn hair is brillaint too ;) xxx

Here is what I come up wi..."
Ha-ha sure but c'mon I'm all prepared for an argument my fingers are all stretched out lol :D Plus I doubt you can change my mind if you scroll through all 21 pages of the discussion you can see I am pretty solidly team Alex ;)
Your pretty cool...for a Julian lover ha-ha :D but for pure curiosity purposes I want to know why you like Julian

Alex can't be cured, "Don't believe her" that shows Alex still remembers Lena and their love and the promises that she made him. The cured don't have strong feelings and don't remember much about their past life.
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "After reading Pandemonium *cough* for the third time *cough* trying to see what people see in Julian other then pity (I still come up blank).
Her..."
Ya same here I will never like Julian I am solid Alex and will stay like that forever!!!!!
Her..."
Ya same here I will never like Julian I am solid Alex and will stay like that forever!!!!!
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Temi wrote: "Okay let's get this straight we all know lena is gonna die so why all this bs? Lauren Oliver is evil...I mean... uh...likes to end in tragedy? so that means someones gonna die and face..."
Exactly! Just because he looks different dosent mean he's cured lena probley looks a lot different but Alex still loves her (well maybe)
Exactly! Just because he looks different dosent mean he's cured lena probley looks a lot different but Alex still loves her (well maybe)

Her..."
Ok then here it goes, i like Julian because even though we spent less time with him i still felt i knew more about HIM as a person, not just facts but the way he is in general. I also think him and Lena have more things in common and understand eachothers troubles better. Mostly i guess i have to say that i like Julian more because of how Lena is with him. In Delirium she was weak minded and she kind of annoyed me, but in Pandemonium she was stronger and fiercer, i personally like a heroine that doesnt need to be saved every five minutes, i felt Julian knew more about Lena's short comings and loved her anyway, the way i see it is that Julian didnt give up and go to his death, he simply chose to believe in Lena and to choose the feelings of love he had for Lena instead of living a life without love/Lena. Somewhere in the book i also remember Lena saying that she felt more comfortable talking to Julian or something like that, for me that wasnt just put in there fo no reason. Julian and Lena had PLENTY of time together to talk about lot of in depth things, i dont feel any more sorry for Julian than i did for Alex, both have suffered, and i think Julian is braver becaue he had to go against EVERYHING he was taught, which must be scary as hell. I think in the last book we will see Julian coming out of his shell even more and being just as tough as Alex, i think he's a survivor just like Lena and that they will be better for eachother in the long run. Plus i dont care what anyone says i think Lena HAS changed, and i like the new her way better. She even says near the end of the book that she knows the person she wants to be and that she has become that person by saving Julian, all in all i just think Julian was more genuine and that him and Lena worked better than she and Alex did, just my opinion but there it is. xxx

hmmmmm ok I guess that makes since although I am still team Alex forever and always ;)but its funny the way you feel about Alex is how I feel about Julian. You think Julian is more genuine when I think Alex is more genuine ha funny how things work out.
But it all comes down to Requiem WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO US LAUREN OLIVER WHY!!!!!

Who cares about his "eyes"? Alex's hair is fiercely awesom..."
Okay. That's all good.
True to my word, I actually think blue eyes are super cool. But I like green eyes a little better. <3
Plus, you're pretty awesome for a Team Julian lover.

I know right! I'm am so obsessed with Delirium. I've been begging my best friend Ale to start reading it and she finally did like yesterday or something and I'm psyched. I was reading her book in class today and I was so sad because I knew how it was going to end. Reading the ending, even knowing he'snot really dead, isn't any better than the first time. But at least I didn't burst into tears in the middle of class. But, it's true, I also fell in love with him all over again and remembered why I love him so much!!!
Say what????!!!! Lauren actually emailed you back?!?! She never replies to me!! But anyway, I know what you mean. If Alex is the one who can't love her back, well shoot me silly. My favorite series's ending will be the death of me!
Catherine wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Catherine wrote: "My friend just started reading Delirium. She keeps talking about Alex. I'm having serious de va ju, and now I can't help myself from feeling a pang of agony every ..."
Haha exactly!!! Lauren emailed me back and then I sent her another one and she didn't reply maybe she thinks I'm a stalker fan haha but seriously I am LOSING IT because I have to wait till stikin MARCH 5TH to read the last book!!!!!!!! WHY LAUREN WHY?!?!?!?
Haha exactly!!! Lauren emailed me back and then I sent her another one and she didn't reply maybe she thinks I'm a stalker fan haha but seriously I am LOSING IT because I have to wait till stikin MARCH 5TH to read the last book!!!!!!!! WHY LAUREN WHY?!?!?!?
Catherine wrote: "P.S. Anyone care to tell me how you get your profile pictures to be the Delirium cover?!?!?!"
Um I can try so u go to your profile settings and then I think you click on your pic (you have to do this on the coumpter) and it will say select a file and you go to the one that says desktop ( u should drag the delirium cover on ur desktop from google) and select that pic and it should set it but I'm not sure hope this helps :)
Um I can try so u go to your profile settings and then I think you click on your pic (you have to do this on the coumpter) and it will say select a file and you go to the one that says desktop ( u should drag the delirium cover on ur desktop from google) and select that pic and it should set it but I'm not sure hope this helps :)
Haylee' Marie wrote: "havent talked to yall in forever!!!"
Haha ikr??
Haha ikr??

Um I can try so u go to your profile settings and then I think you click on your pi..."
Oh. Hmm. I can't do that on my library's computer. Darn.

WHAT???? March 5th!!!!!!!!! Okay, I am officially asking every single one of my friends to get me the Delirium books for my birthday or I will die!!!
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "After reading Pandemonium *cough* for the third time *cough* trying to see what people see in J..."
GOD it killing me I am the worst person when it comes to cliffhangers cuz I'm super impatient and I am trying to think of how lena will end up with but I can't get ANYWHERE thank you Lauren Oliver!!! But seriously this is the longest wait of my life
GOD it killing me I am the worst person when it comes to cliffhangers cuz I'm super impatient and I am trying to think of how lena will end up with but I can't get ANYWHERE thank you Lauren Oliver!!! But seriously this is the longest wait of my life
Catherine wrote: "Andrea wrote: "Catherine wrote: "My friend just started reading Delirium. She keeps talking about Alex. I'm having serious de va ju, and now I can't help myself from feeling a pang of agony every ..."
I did the same thing with my friend and I got her hooked and now whenever I see her (which is like everyday cuz we carpool) we always babble about delirium and Alex and it normally turns into an argument about who likes Alex more ( I always claim me cause I never beliver he was dead) but on my iPod I have like a gazillion delirium pic lol we r so obsessed :)
I did the same thing with my friend and I got her hooked and now whenever I see her (which is like everyday cuz we carpool) we always babble about delirium and Alex and it normally turns into an argument about who likes Alex more ( I always claim me cause I never beliver he was dead) but on my iPod I have like a gazillion delirium pic lol we r so obsessed :)
Hey Catherine I'd like to be your friend but Im not allowed to be friends with ppl I don't know in real life srry :(
hey guys bibliopunkk is having a giveaway! you can get arcs of delirirum pandemonium and reqium! heres the link: http://www.bibliopunkk.net/2012/09/la...

I KNOW RIGHT! In fact when I started reading Delirium I bought Pandemonium so I could read them back to back so I WOULDN'T have to deal with a cliff hanger ha-ha :)

Now...people are saying that Lena will "pick" Julian because he is more like her. They've had the same upbringing. But wouldn't it be hard for either of them to grow? They wouldn't challenge each other. Now Lena and Alex...they are the perfect mix. They give to the other what they need. They (and there is no not corny way to say this) complete each other. Lena is who she is because of Alex, and Alex has done what he's done because of Lena. They make each other better.

That is SO true!
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "After reading Pandemonium *cough* for the thi..."
Haha smart I shoulda done that I read delirium like right after pandy came out and I couldn't find it for like 2 weeks and it was KILLING ME lol
Haha smart I shoulda done that I read delirium like right after pandy came out and I couldn't find it for like 2 weeks and it was KILLING ME lol

and knowing that, i never totally connected to julian. i hope hope hope things work out with her and alex.

two weeks is nothing compared to 7 freaking months!!
In teenage girl time, 7 months is like 7 freakig years!!!!!!!!!!

Or they could end up fighting about everything, because at the end of the day i agree that having differences is a good thing but for a couple to work they need balance and they really do need to have at least some of the same principles and a basic level of understanding for eachothers choices so they can form a united front because otherwise things will end badly. I mean its one thing to disagree about the types of books you like or what religion you choose, or even what you think about ducks (i.e. secretly evil or just plain annoying) , it's quite another to have a difference of opinion on how a life or death situation should be handled, which is what Lena and Alex would probably have to deal with. Like i said before i think Julian treated Lena more like an equal rather than someone who needs constant protection. Also i quite like the idea that Lena should not be defined by either boy. I have a feeling Julian will be more accepting of Lena's choices in the last book, because he see's her as a strong person, not the weak girl she was in the first book. This is just my opinion, you are completely entitled to yours ;) xxx Side note, the answer to the duck thing is EVIL!, every time people.
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Michaela wrote: "You know what I just thought of? (Bring on the Hunger Games references) One if the big reasons Katniss didn't end up romantically loving Gale is because they were too similar. Peet..."
Haha you make a valid point and I give u cudos for that most ppl say I like Julian cuz he has blue eyes... Psh thats cool but why do you really like him??? But good job on giving real points but as you know I will be forever Alex :)
Haha you make a valid point and I give u cudos for that most ppl say I like Julian cuz he has blue eyes... Psh thats cool but why do you really like him??? But good job on giving real points but as you know I will be forever Alex :)
Michaela wrote: "You know what I just thought of? (Bring on the Hunger Games references) One if the big reasons Katniss didn't end up romantically loving Gale is because they were too similar. Peeta was different, ..."
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Michaela wrote: "You know what I just thought of? (Bring on the Hunger Games references) One if the big reasons Katniss didn't end up romantically loving Gale is because they were too similar. Peet..."
You are SO right Alex and Lena are the perfect mix because they contrast eachother... Why didnt I think of that cudos to u :)
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Michaela wrote: "You know what I just thought of? (Bring on the Hunger Games references) One if the big reasons Katniss didn't end up romantically loving Gale is because they were too similar. Peet..."
You are SO right Alex and Lena are the perfect mix because they contrast eachother... Why didnt I think of that cudos to u :)
Catherine wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Catherine wrote: "P.S. Anyone care to tell me how you get your profile pictures to be the Delirium cover?!?!?!"
Um I can try so u go to your profile settings and then I think..."
Aww srry :(
Um I can try so u go to your profile settings and then I think..."
Aww srry :(

You asked wy i like Julian, i wrote it a page ago but i'll redo it for you because im AMAZING like that, no joke i am amazing it just has to be said, or im just mental...either way ;)
Ok then here it goes, i like Julian because even though we spent less time with him i still felt i knew more about HIM as a person, not just facts but the way he is in general. I also think him and Lena have more things in common and understand eachothers troubles better. Mostly i guess i have to say that i like Julian more because of how Lena is with him. In Delirium she was weak minded and she kind of annoyed me, but in Pandemonium she was stronger and fiercer, i personally like a heroine that doesnt need to be saved every five minutes, i felt Julian knew more about Lena's short comings and loved her anyway, the way i see it is that Julian didnt give up and go to his death, he simply chose to believe in Lena and to choose the feelings of love he had for Lena instead of living a life without love/Lena. Somewhere in the book i also remember Lena saying that she felt more comfortable talking to Julian or something like that, for me that wasnt just put in there fo no reason. Julian and Lena had PLENTY of time together to talk about lot of in depth things, i dont feel any more sorry for Julian than i did for Alex, both have suffered, and i think Julian is braver becaue he had to go against EVERYHING he was taught, which must be scary as hell. I think in the last book we will see Julian coming out of his shell even more and being just as tough as Alex, i think he's a survivor just like Lena and that they will be better for eachother in the long run. Plus i dont care what anyone says i think Lena HAS changed, and i like the new her way better. She even says near the end of the book that she knows the person she wants to be and that she has become that person by saving Julian, all in all i just think Julian was more genuine and that him and Lena worked better than she and Alex did, just my opinion but there it is. xxx


but Alex has eyes deep brown eyes warm like syrup pouring over pancakes *swoon*
Now it's my turn... ;)
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationship which was based on pity and survival. Lena was sure where she belonged with Alex, and with Julian she still wasn't over Alex, and needed something to fill the hole in her heart, and Julian was there at the time. Also, most of Julian's feeling to Lena was came out of curiosity too, because he had never talked or touched a girl, let an lone anyone his age. Also I think Lena partly "fell" for Julian is because of raven, she was telling Lena all the 'past is gone, one thing must die for another thing to live' and Lena was was loving by those words, and she was learning to push away the thought of Alex, and that is who I think she didn't have any hope that he es alive. Alex opened Lena's eyes to the world, sacrificed his life for Lena, and that is why I like Alex better and like him better
Ps. Srry if I'm like raining on ur parade cuz u seem really awsome ;)
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationship which was based on pity and survival. Lena was sure where she belonged with Alex, and with Julian she still wasn't over Alex, and needed something to fill the hole in her heart, and Julian was there at the time. Also, most of Julian's feeling to Lena was came out of curiosity too, because he had never talked or touched a girl, let an lone anyone his age. Also I think Lena partly "fell" for Julian is because of raven, she was telling Lena all the 'past is gone, one thing must die for another thing to live' and Lena was was loving by those words, and she was learning to push away the thought of Alex, and that is who I think she didn't have any hope that he es alive. Alex opened Lena's eyes to the world, sacrificed his life for Lena, and that is why I like Alex better and like him better
Ps. Srry if I'm like raining on ur parade cuz u seem really awsome ;)
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Michaela wrote: "You know what I just thought of? (Bring on the Hunger Games references) One if the big reasons Katniss didn't end up romantically loving ..."
True ;) oh and don't forget the most gorgues hair and rock solid abs ;)
True ;) oh and don't forget the most gorgues hair and rock solid abs ;)
Omg I though of my government teacher on this convo cuz he likes it when we deabte about stuff I should show him this lol

I do too but Alex's deliciousness is just a bonus ;)

Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationship which was based on ..."
OMG! That is SO TRUE!!
Julian's "love" for Lena was more curiosity because of him not touching a girl and wanting to know what love is ect. But out of all the girls in Portland with "perfect" bodies and glossy blonde hair (Hana) Alex chose Lena who is 5'3 and in between in every way.
Now if you will excuse me......:D
[image error]
I LOVE YOU ALEX!
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Now it's my turn... ;)
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationshi..."
Thank you :) I love that gif it sums all my feelings for Alex AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I invited LO to join r group :) :)
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationshi..."
Thank you :) I love that gif it sums all my feelings for Alex AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I invited LO to join r group :) :)
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Nic wrote: "I rather go for the personality than looks, or should i just say eyes? Therefore I choose Alex."
I do too but Alex's deliciousness is just a bonus ;)"
Haha TRUE DAT! But yes I go for personality too so ale is the complete package ;) ;)
I do too but Alex's deliciousness is just a bonus ;)"
Haha TRUE DAT! But yes I go for personality too so ale is the complete package ;) ;)

Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike Julian and Lena's relationshi..."
You could say the same thing about Lena though, that she only fell in lovewith Alex out of lack of choice and experience, like isaid before every argument has an opposite, i just highly doubt also that Lena will just go back to Alex simple as that, no way, she cares about Julian, if not loves him at the very least she will not dump Julian after everything, that would be stupid i dont think Lauren Oliver woud just go for the popular vote like some authors would. She even said in her blog somewhere that there wont be a real love triangle in the third book, but maybe Lena wil just get back with Alex and Julian wil get with Hana or maybe Lena will die, maybe they will all die end of, hope not but.... ;) xxx

yeah but that would leave out the surprise right? Plus to many people want Julian to die anyway.

Okay.. I think that Lauren Oliver put that last scene of Alex's eyes to confuse us. To make us think that Alex is not the same- who, i'm sure he's not. That he's stronger but he stills being the same Alex that we met at Delirium- and to make us think that he won't be the same at Requiem and that he would hate Lena and probably would like to kill Julian. Maybe she wrote that last scene to make us a different idea of the sweet Alex. But please, i mean, put in Alex shoes. He saved Lena's life like two times, he risked his life and he's liberty saying that he loved her, he risk everything for that little... For Lena. He risked everything for Lena including his life. And suddenly, when he thinks that everything is such a mess in the society but that he knows that having Lena would help him and makes everything- the months without her, the pain and everything he must had been through- disappears because she "Loves him, remember, and they cannot take it" and he's like super really exited because they belong to each other and then, when they are just separated by a fucking door, he opens it waiting to see his love of his life and the only thing he founds out is Lena promising a forever love- as she did to him- and she kissing another guy. OF COURSE HIS EYES WERE SHINNING OF ANGER!!! What do people expected? To come to her, hug her and tell her that he doesn't care that he "replace" him in such a short time? I don't think so. I think that he is somehow the same Alex but stronger, and i think that his eyes where unprenetables because he was of course, hurt. But i don't think he hates her or that he has changed in a bad way
I really want Lena to end up with Alex, but i think she would end up alone. Why? Here's the reason:
Neither of two relationships were complete pure: Lena wouldn't have felt something for Julian is she really, really, really loved Alex. She just, really, really loved him. And i think that she was only with Julian because she was used to be loved-by my dear Alex, kissed- by my dear Alex- and hugged- by my dear Alex- and that's why she felt right away for Julian. Alex and Lena's relationship was more sincere and truthful. They're was more love embracing them and in Julian and Lena's relationship was more forced because Lena needed to be loved and Julian was curious about how been in love was. You may say that Lena was like Julian in the first book, discovering love, but it wasn't like that. Lena was loved by his mother and by his family, she knew about love and Julian didn't because he was never loved by his father. So... That's my point of view
Anyways... I'm Alex's team all the way! I think he and Lena should get married and adopt Julian because he's like a little baby. Just saying my realistic ideas...

Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was real affection, unlike ..."
Ya there is no way Lena would just dump Julian on the spot and run into Alex's arms because she has explaining to do to Alex and Julian plus then the whole war cured vs. "invalid" thingy going on. But I do think Lena loves Julian in a way not the way she loves Alex but in a way. I just hope she won't be one of those girls that shows affection to both guys but still can't make up her mind *cough* Katniss *cough*
That is true Lauren could do a whole romeo and juliet ending sence thats been an on going theme. . .
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "Now it's my turn... ;)
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was r..."
Ya that is a good point... But yes I think she really loves Alex and hopefully TRUE LOVE will conquer all!!!
Out of all the girls in Portland, Alex picked Lena, even with people like Hana! You can tell it was r..."
Ya that is a good point... But yes I think she really loves Alex and hopefully TRUE LOVE will conquer all!!!
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Well I am so glad you asked I'll give my reasons any day ;)
1. Alex is a much stronger character. Yes Julian did have his strong moments (like killing that guy trying to hurt Lena) but the bottom line is if it weren't for Lena he wouldn't be alive. I'm attracted (both in books and in real life ;)) to guys that can take care of themselves and are independent Julian is too fragile and puppy like for me ha-ha.
2. Alex doesn't just accept what happens to him but does something about it. Julian is like, "O well I have to be cured and die I guess that's just the way it has to be." He just gave up and WANTED to die.
"They are all asleep they've been asleep for years"
He said, closing his eyes and opening them again.
"I'm tired of sleeping" [Alex]
Yes I know that's all Julian ever knew and wanted to please his father and Alex grew up in the wilds. However, honestly Julian knew the "invalids" were real if he had been a bit more ambitious instead of staring at pictures of mountains imagining he was free and actually DOING something about his situation then I would like him more.
3. The way Alex handles his problems. Although Alex doesn't have as nearly has many problems as Julian has its the way he handles them that makes me love him :).
Like Alex's parents were taken by the cured, put into the crypts where they were tortured and eventually killed. Alex doesn't just sit around feeling sorry about himself but he USES that to fuel his determination to fight for what he believes in.
Julian's problems on the other hand emotionally paralyzed him to the point he just wanted to die. Alex is a very ambitious which is what I like about him. :)