Pandemonium
discussion
Alex or Julian???
Nic wrote: "Emily wrote: "Nic wrote: "Emily wrote: "I think Julian's sweet but I rekon Lena and Alex have way more of a connection, he helped her through everything and showed her so much about the world that ..."Well that would certainly be unexpected and different but I hope there's some kind of happiness in the end or that someone survives...
Yeah, Isn't there a short book from Hana's POV or a story about her? Or am I getting confused with a different series?
ALEX ofcourse... i love him for lena..... Want the requiem badly... cant wait... :-(
its funny how most people want Alex when Lena in the 2nd book felt more conferrable with Julian than with Alex, Alex open a new Lena who turn out to be stronger than she thought and caring, Now that Lena knows she can be strong all by herself she doesn't need Alex and this real new Lena will choose Julian over Alex. To tell you the truth Alex will just create more trouble for Lena and make hold her back.
I equally love both of them. that's why I love this book....ughhhhh! I can't decide, can't imagine how will Lena deal on Alex's return... hmmmmm.. ok still I'll go for Alex because,they've been through hell together and also apart from each other. for sure there will be lots of changes in Alex and I can't wait to find it out... their love triangle is tragic.. they were all victim. victim of fate, I really adore Lauren Oliver for writing a love triangle where in you can't find any wrong or any fault or the one you can put the blame on but to fate... I hope Requiem will be able to keep up the hype of the story and meet reader's expectation.
Erica wrote: "its funny how most people want Alex when Lena in the 2nd book felt more conferrable with Julian than with Alex, Alex open a new Lena who turn out to be stronger than she thought and caring, Now tha..."That is a good point and i agree x Although the Alex fans may hate on us for it ;)
I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the only strong argument they could come up with in defending Julian PS: Don't hate me I just love Alex and it's funny how it hurts me whenever I feel Alex would end up alone :(
Peaceout :))
Clary wrote: "I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the only strong argument they could come up with in defending Julian PS: ..."
We feel the same way about Alex fans though, because the only argument they come up with is that Alex taught her how to love, so really it goes both ways, its just what is best or Lena long term. It all depends how she reacts to Alex coming back xxx
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the only strong argument they could come up with in defending..."I'm sorry to disagree, try to remember the sacrifice he did and by the way its not just love that he taught Lena, actually everything Lena did in pandemonium was actually Alex doings. and mind you there's a lot of arguments team Alex points out through out this thread and call me biased because I am but everything they said made a perfect sense.
Nic wrote: "Feñaa wrote: "Nic wrote: "Michaela wrote: "Guys...Lauren said that one of them doesn't love her. I honestly don't think that Alex has stopped loving her. But Julian? He barely understands love, he'..."That is very interesting...although his father was killed in the getaway. So I'm not so sure. But the DFA is sure to be crumbling right now.
I love Julian and Lena's relationship more than Alex and Lena's. Julian's one of those people who's against love,he's one of those people in the town that's just 100% against it, which makes it more interesting to read about. Alex is from the wilds, he's allowed to love. I find forbidden love more interesting and romantic than just normal love. So Julian.
Qi wrote: "I love Julian and Lena's relationship more than Alex and Lena's. Julian's one of those people who's against love,he's one of those people in the town that's just 100% against it, which makes it mor..."Lena feels for Julian, but its more pity affection due to what happened to his brother, his illness and his relationship with his father. She feels an overwhelming need to protect him and save him and is confusing this with love. This whole Julian thing is a total joke. They only knew bits and pieces of each other. I think she only felt as if she loved him because of the fact they had to survive by helping each other.
Julian and Lena's relationship just isn't real to me. Lena's first love was "dead" and she was emotionally desperate and starved for affection she wanted to feel loved the way she did with Alex which is why I think she started a relationship with Julian so quickly. Julian found out that his whole life was a lie he didn't even know what to believe anymore plus he never even touched a girl before.
They were both locked in a confined space for a period of time so of course feelings were going to start developing. To me Julian was more of a rebound for Lena because like I said she was in a emotionally desperate state she would have "fell in love" with anyone at that point.
Alex and Lena spent actual time together. At 37 brooks , in his trailer in the wilds, and racing in the sea. Julian and Lena never spent one moment with each other without someone trying to kill them. Alex and Lena's love goes so much deeper and is more real than Lena and Julian's and they know everything about each other. Yes I know Lena couldn't tell Julian everything because her previous life is "dead" but if I really loved someone I would tell him. Plus Julian and Lena never said "I love you" to each other. It was implied but Alex and Lena said it TWICE.
"I love you remember they cannot take it" Lena said that to Alex not to Julian.
And I think your forgetting Lena wasn't allowed to love and Alex was. They had to sneak around and if they were caught Alex could have died or they would have cured them early (which is basically death)or trapped them in the crypts. A lot more forbidden and interesting or the same as Lena and Julian's relationship (I refuse to call it love).
Nic wrote: "But the Julian love felt like puppy love, like it wasn't even real love."
Exactly it was pity not love, people!!!!!
Exactly it was pity not love, people!!!!!
Lena's relationship with Julian wasn't real. They didn't really got to know eachother, they were confined in a small space and were depending on eachother for survival. Lena felt pity for him, not affection. Since her love had "died" she was looking for so something to fill the hole in her heart, and Julian was there. They didn't get to know eachother really. Lena felt pity for him over his brother and the seizures, and she didn't really connect with him like she did with Alex. Plus, Julian had never touched or spoken to a girl before, so most of his feelings for Lena came out of curiosity and impulse.
Lena really got to know Alex, she spent actual time with him in an open space. They really got to know eachother, they spent time in 37 brooks, on the beach, and even when they first met. This was real love, when they went to the wilds she said she wasn't sure about anything but then she said she belonged with Alex. Also the part where Alex walked in the store she almost toppled off the stool. She felt real love for him, and he showed her how to live.
Lena really got to know Alex, she spent actual time with him in an open space. They really got to know eachother, they spent time in 37 brooks, on the beach, and even when they first met. This was real love, when they went to the wilds she said she wasn't sure about anything but then she said she belonged with Alex. Also the part where Alex walked in the store she almost toppled off the stool. She felt real love for him, and he showed her how to live.
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Qi wrote: "I love Julian and Lena's relationship more than Alex and Lena's. Julian's one of those people who's against love,he's one of those people in the town that's just 100% against it, which m..."Exactly. I feel like Julian and Lena's relationship was based off being trapped together in jail. I thought that Lena felt more comfortable around Julian because he wasn't as strong a character as Alex. In this relationship, Lena was the leader. But don't you remember how in everything she did, Alex was in her mind?? And I refuse to believe this whole 'Alex has changed' nonsense. If you (this is a spoiler, but if you're reading you probably already know this) came back from the dead, don't you think you'd be a little pissed that you're girlfriend was kissing another guy promising HIM she'd love HIM forever?!? I would. I mean, it wasn't even that long Lena....
Oh and 1000th comment, yeahh!!!!!
I would say Alex! But I don't know Julian has that something that captivated me!! LOL
Definitely Alex!!! Julian made me think of a child who needed taking care of, whereas Alex was a lot stronger... can't wait for the third book!
Bianca wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Qi wrote: "I love Julian and Lena's relationship more than Alex and Lena's. Julian's one of those people who's against love,he's one of those people in the town that's ..."I think Alex has changed but not as drastically as many think. But yeah "I love you they cannot take it" mmmhmmm put that in your juice box and suck it Julian!
Maybe in Requiem he will end up with Hana or die that would be even better XD
Clary wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the only strong argument they could com..."Sorry im not disagreeing but i do think that just because someone saves your life it isnt a good reason to be with them forever, thats like saying you should stay together because you have children. Also i dont think its fair to say Lena did all the things she did because of Alex, id say she made those decisions herself despite her grief for Alex. And i think the idea that Julian and Lena's relationship was only because they were locked up is complete rubbish, they got to know eachother BECAUSE they were locked up sure, and they found they had a connection because of their experiences, but they carried on even when they escaped. Alex may have been on Lena's mind a lot but that didnt stop her from falling for Julian, surely if they had such a deep connection those thoughts would have stopped her, and just because someone was your first love doesnt mean they should be their last. Im not trying to change your mind, i just think that for every opinion there is an opposite. xxx ;)
Ahhhhhhhh!!! BLOOOOW MIND!!!
Nic wrote: "I think the problem is that Lena thinks she has to have love, I mean frick, its good be single, to get some perspective on things. But she suddenly latches on Julian, as if he may be the last perso..."yeah right :)
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the only strong argument ..."I didn't say anything about Lena staying with Alex because he sacrificed his life for her. my point is all the things Alex did for her is something that Lena should think about before jumping to another guy which is very bullsh*t.
PS: yeah right we have different opinion.
Alex saved Lena's life twice. And how many times did Julian did that?None.All the apposite. Lena was the one that was always saving Julian's life. STRONG BOY + STRONG GIRL=STRONG COUPLE THAT CAN SAVE THE WORLD!!! STRONG GIRL + SICK BOY= GIRL THAT WILL CARE MORE ABOUT THE BOY MEANWHILE THE WORLD IS FULL OF DARKNESS!!! lay of the jungle, people. Lay of life!
You know...out of all of the girls in Portland, or even in the wilds, Alex picked Lena! He knew about love his entire life, and probably wasn't planning on falling in love anytime soon. But it just kind of naturally happened. Then...something made Lena pick him back. She went against everything she ever knew for him and became an entirely new person. THE PERSON ALEX SAW HER AS. This "new Lena" is what I think Alex had seen all along. Now...Lena was the first girl Julian has ever really even had contact with, and Lena was broken. I think Julian could get over Lena. He went to the wilds to be free, and could pretty easily find someone else. But I don't think Alex could get over her. He gave his everything to Lena. His identity, his home, his love, and his life. And Lena never really let go of him...I just think that Lena and Alex belong together more (personal preferences aside even). There is just something about them.
....also I think that Julian has been through enough where he deserves someone to love him with everything she has. I don't think Lena could do that with Alex back.
I prefer Julian. Here's why.When I read Delirium, I was totally all for Alex just like everyone else. I thought Alex was adorable, and I cried when he "died". Going into Pandemonium, I just wanted Alex to come back. Really badly. When Julian was introduced, I was like, "Oh, hell no. Who is this guy?". But as I continued reading, I sort of fell in love with Julian's character. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized Julian/Lena makes a lot more sense than Alex/Lena. It took me awhile to come to that conclusion, but now I am unwavering in my preference for Julian. Here are my reasons why I think Lena should remain with Julian...
1)A common complaint among fans is that Lena moved on from Alex too quickly. But, that's not entirely true. There were at least a good six months that passed between the last pages of Delirium and Lena in Pandemonium. They go through different seasons and everything.
2)While I do love Alex a lot, I felt like I didn't really, truly know him. For the short amount of time that we are exposed to Julian, I felt like I really got to know him as a character. He developed well. He was interested in Lena's story too. He is just a genuinely caring, curious guy, and I love that about him. With Alex, there wasn't much to learn about him. He didn't progress much.
3)As the son of a big member of the DFA, Julian didn't know any better than what he was taught and raised to believe. I thought it was a nice change for the female to have the influence on the guy. I thought it was amazing that Julian was even able to change his mind considering his upbringing. That says a lot about him as a person. He was able to trust Lena and give her a chance to prove who she is. He didn't hate her.
4)Lauren Oliver does mention that there will be no love triangle in the 3rd book. I mean, unless Lena is just a horrible person and leaves Julian for Alex on the spot, I think she is content with Julian. Oliver also mentioned how Alex is in a dark place right now. I think he probably needs time to become the person he used to be again.
5)In Pandemonium, after Lena and Julian escape the sewers, they go to that house. And I remember how Lena was thinking how she felt so comfortable talking with Julian. Even more so than she did with Alex. I don't have the book with me, but I know for sure that she thinks this. It's in there. And feeling comfortable with a person is definitely as sign of a good relationship. I'm not saying Lena wasn't comfortable with Alex, but he had his tendencies to be unpredictable. I think Lena and Julian's comfort in one another is really a contributing factor in their relationship growth. And you can sense this, I think.
6)When Alex was shot, Lena kept running, knowing he could die at any moment. I don't blame Lena. She did exactly what Alex told her. But, she never goes back, looking for him. She never makes sure that he is dead. She accepts it without confirmation. But later in Pandemonium, when Julian is brought to be executed, Lena is certain she has to save him. She seeks him out, and is persistent in saving Julian.
7)When Lena finds out that everything was a set up with her and Julian, she is genuinely angry. She actually really cares about Julian and wonders how Tack and Raven could do that to them. She doesn't want to leave without knowing Julian is okay. And Raven even says something along the lines of, "You really like this boy, don't you?" I think if Lena had not voiced her concern for Julian so strongly, Raven wouldn't have been compelled to help save him. Lena convinced Raven that she truly cares about Julian.
8)Yes, the idea of being with your first love is appealing and romantic, but it's not actually all that realistic. So, saying that Alex was Lena's first love and so therefore they belong together isn't sensible. Many people fall in love many times. I just don't think that's a very valid argument.
Just a couple other things to add. I think it's sad that some people actually wish ill will on Julian just because Lena started having feelings for him, hoping that he'll die from his tumor. Why though? What has Julian done to deserve to die? I just think that just because it's a popular opinion to prefer Alex doesn't mean you can speak badly about Julian as if it's a joke. Alex is a wonderful character, but I just don't understand why anyone despises Julian to the point of wishing him dead.
And lastly, I respect you all no matter who you like more, and I just really can't wait for the 3rd book! I have no idea what's going to happen or how everything will be resolved in the end. It's a lot of fun to speculate though! Lauren Oliver is such a lovely writer, and I respect her for being able to keep us guessing. I don't think the outcome is predictable, and she's done a wonderful job of making me conflicted throughout reading the 2 books. I'm sure the 3rd one is going to be fantastic no matter what the final outcome is! :)
Veronica wrote: "I prefer Julian. Here's why.When I read Delirium, I was totally all for Alex just like everyone else. I thought Alex was adorable, and I cried when he "died". Going into Pandemonium, I just wante..."
Oh you just wrote everything i was too lazy to write, i love it. I agree with everything you said, Julian just seems a better fit to me for the person Lena is now. xxx
Clary wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Clary wrote: "I cannot blame team Julian for always pointing out that Lena is more comfortable with him than Alex because I know that's the..."So what your saying is Lena should stay with Alex because she OWES HIM, thats a piss poor argument to use. Also may i direct you to Veronica's arguments just above she makes some damn good points. Just because it is popular to love Alex doesnt mean i have to, i just think i know more about Julian as a person and a character, from that i like him, more than i ever liked Alex, not saying you have to agree its just my choice. xxx
for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena is better with Julian...GO TEAM "JUNA" or "LELIAN"...or whatever but my vote is on JULIAN...
I don't care if Lena ends up with Julian or Alex or even alone...i just want Alex to be happy...well a of them :)
Veronica wrote: "I prefer Julian. Here's why.When I read Delirium, I was totally all for Alex just like everyone else. I thought Alex was adorable, and I cried when he "died". Going into Pandemonium, I just wante..."
Ok although I love Alex and I currently hate Lena and Julian and can argue with every single idem on your list. I give you kudos for having actual valid reasons for liking Julian. Because I hate when people are like "I love Julian" but don't give any good reasons for it. So kudos to you! :)
Mekiri_19 wrote: "for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena is better with Julian...GO TEAM "JUNA" or "LE..."
Why??
I love Alex and can give you many reasons why but I want to know why you think Julian is better then Alex please enlighten me...
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Mekiri_19 wrote: "for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena is better with Julian...GO ..."
Im actually interested as to why people like Alex so much, he just seems to have very little personlity, and the little he does have makes him seem like every other main boy in books like this. I like Julian because he's different and i think i know him better, its just my opinion, so far the only arguments i have seen for Alex is a)he was her first love so that means she should be with him, all i can say to that is that it is unrealistic and makes little sense, b)he saved her, thats not a real reason its basically saying she should be with him because she OWES him which is bullshit, c)he taught her how to love, yeah so what, Lena taught Julian the same thing so that argument kind of contradicts itself. Let me say for the record that i dont dislike Alex, i just think that Julian is a better fit for Lena, but thats only my opinion id like to know yours if that ok, for simple curiousity purposes ;) xxx
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Catherine wrote: "BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Julian, blue eyes win out for me every time, sorry ;) x"Who cares about his "eyes"? Alex's hair is fiercly awesome!!! Who's with me?"
I care...obviously!..."
True. And I didn't mean that offensively. Sorry. Blue eyes are cool. But auburn hair gets to me every time.
BridieJDRAGON wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Mekiri_19 wrote: "for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena ..."I've said this before the reason why we don't know so much about Alex is because the first book was about Lena ( well the whole series) but in the first book she was discovering herself and I think the Alex character received enough exposure whereas in Pandemonium Lena is helping Julian figure things out and I think that's why she got to know him better and us too...
I have to admit I still like Alex better
Michaela wrote: "Guys...Lauren said that one of them doesn't love her. I honestly don't think that Alex has stopped loving her. But Julian? He barely understands love, he's fought against it his whole life. I don't..."When did she say that?! God, I hope that doesn't apply to Alex!!! My soul will rip and tear!
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Bianca wrote: "Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Qi wrote: "I love Julian and Lena's relationship more than Alex and Lena's. Julian's one of those people who's against love,he's one of those people in t..."So cruel; you want him to die?
. . .Okay, I admit I've thought the same!!! XD
Michaela wrote: "You know...out of all of the girls in Portland, or even in the wilds, Alex picked Lena! He knew about love his entire life, and probably wasn't planning on falling in love anytime soon. But it just..."Omigosh, I never thought of that. You have a great point.
Alex picked Lena out of the tons and tons of girls he saw. Julian fell for Lena because she was the only girl he'd ever talked to. Who knows if he actually understands what he's got himself into?
Catherine wrote: "Michaela wrote: "You know...out of all of the girls in Portland, or even in the wilds, Alex picked Lena! He knew about love his entire life, and probably wasn't planning on falling in love anytime ..."That's true...Alex fell for Lena way before she met him, when he saw her running at the governor and after that he didn't fall for anybody else. Lena fell for Julian because she was stuck with him in a room and didn't have anything else to do.
Veronica wrote: "I prefer Julian. Here's why.When I read Delirium, I was totally all for Alex just like everyone else. I thought Alex was adorable, and I cried when he "died". Going into Pandemonium, I just wante..."
Though I am still Team Alex, I love what you wrote and I am now coming to a sort of respect for Julian. I feel kind of sorry for anything mean I've said about him.
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Mekiri_19 wrote: "for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena is better with Julian...GO ..."
Then let's scream it to the world:
GO "LELEX"! OR "ALENA"!
My friend just started reading Delirium. She keeps talking about Alex. I'm having serious de va ju, and now I can't help myself from feeling a pang of agony every time she talks about him. Because no matter what we have to say, it's obvious he's a different person. Seeing the past Alex brings fresh pain thinking about the new Alex. Still Alex forever. Reading about him made me remember why I loved him. He was so mysterious, yet he loved Lena to this extent where he would do anything for her. He helped her find out where her mom went. He saved her from a raid. He showed her love.
He was funny and beautiful and sweet, and if he's not like that in Requiem will somebody shoot me?
Catherine wrote: "My friend just started reading Delirium. She keeps talking about Alex. I'm having serious de va ju, and now I can't help myself from feeling a pang of agony every time she talks about him. Because ..."I know...I re read Delirium a few weeks ago and I fell in love with him all over again...but it does bring pain like you said because I know Alex is not the same and I'm afraid Lena will not stay with him. I even emailed Lauren Oliver pleading for her to not kill Alex or make him suffer in the third book and she did email back even though she didn't give me any hints. All I want is for Lena to stay with Alex but Lauren said one of them won't love her back and I'm afraid it's him :(
Okay let's get this straight we all know lena is gonna die so why all this bs? Lauren Oliver is evil...I mean... uh...likes to end in tragedy? so that means someones gonna die and face it who ever does is gonna end this messed up coming back from the dead and being cured love triangle... P.s I think Alex came back cured...and evil plus I really luv Julian but seriously someone is gonna die maybe multiple people so don't get crazy stalker fan on it (it's okay I'm one too ;)
Temi wrote: "Okay let's get this straight we all know lena is gonna die so why all this bs? Lauren Oliver is evil...I mean... uh...likes to end in tragedy? so that means someones gonna die and face it who ever ..."I was just thinking about how Lauren likes to kill off the main character...hey it's a possibility
ALEX!!! You can give a thousand reasons but with Julian you draw a blank
Lenasheathes wrote: "ALEX!!! You can give a thousand reasons but with Julian you draw a blank"right :)
Temi wrote: "Okay let's get this straight we all know lena is gonna die so why all this bs? Lauren Oliver is evil...I mean... uh...likes to end in tragedy? so that means someones gonna die and face it who ever ..."
Ok think about this though if Alex escaped back to lena why whould he be cured?? plus since you said Lauren Oliver likes to kill ppl off isn't there a possiblity that Julian could die of a seizure??
Ok think about this though if Alex escaped back to lena why whould he be cured?? plus since you said Lauren Oliver likes to kill ppl off isn't there a possiblity that Julian could die of a seizure??
Clary wrote: "Lenasheathes wrote: "ALEX!!! You can give a thousand reasons but with Julian you draw a blank"
right :)"
Clary u should join r delirium group Spread the Deliria it's really awsome we talk about delirium, predictions for the next book, random stuff and of corse, Alex. The only rules are be nice. hers the link: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/7...
right :)"
Clary u should join r delirium group Spread the Deliria it's really awsome we talk about delirium, predictions for the next book, random stuff and of corse, Alex. The only rules are be nice. hers the link: http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/7...
Sheyenne Sheathes ;) wrote: "Mekiri_19 wrote: "for me Julian is better than Alex...No offense on those who like Ales than Julian, but this is my opinion and I like to scream to the world that Lena is better with Julian...
GO ..."
Yes do tell! But seriously I really don't understand why Julian is better.
GO ..."
Yes do tell! But seriously I really don't understand why Julian is better.
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True, it's been a while since I've read it so I can't remember some of the details. I'm hoping that Alex doesn't hate her because I want them to be together. Although someone said earier that the author may not do what's expected so who knows, everything is confusing me so much! I don't know what to think!