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General IR Book Discussion > IR's that are "Undercooked" & Not "Well Done"

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message 1: by Anino (last edited Feb 15, 2012 08:12AM) (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments I just finished reading a 22 page IR that I purchased from an author (who shall not be named, lol) via her website. The sex was heavy handed & there really wasn't much in the way of character development/storyline. Why is it that some IR authors feel that it's ok to hand us (their readers) a plate of sloppy non-edited IR, & expect us to eat it (buy it)?

I can think of 1 author in particular that has a track record of poor editing, so much to the point that I want to offer her my services for free.

Has anyone else taken the time to ponder this?




message 2: by Nana (new)

Nana Malone (nanamalone) | 31 comments I think the problem is that because the IR genre isn't as large as say a paranormal genre or a steam punk genre some authors feel like they have a captive audience who are starve for anything IR and will just accept whatever.

*shrug*

Makes me sad.


message 3: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
I think that part of the issue is that some readers decide they want to write IR books but don't really understand the mechanics and craft that goes into writing. And probably they don't have good people in their lives who can give them a valuable critique of their work prior to the publication process.

I often wonder if some writers even read widely. I feel that reading is the first step to being a good writer. If you don't read, how can you know what good writing is? And also, reading outside of the one genre, and getting exposure to the wide variety of literature out there (and I don't mean literary fiction necessarily, because I think there is a lot of great writing in genre fiction alone).

Writing is a gift and a talent for some writers, but it's also an art and craft and it takes hard work. Sometimes, I think some writers sidestep some of that work and go right to the published author status.

Honestly, that's why I've taken a step back and I don't buy as much IR as I did. I love IRR, with a passion, but I want a good quality story with good quality writing as well.


message 4: by Arch , Mod (last edited Feb 15, 2012 04:56PM) (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
I'm not an author, but I'm a writer. This year will make 25 years that I have been writing. I know that writing is my talent and yet, I know that I still have a lot to learn about writing. I'm a storyteller. I love telling a story. A lot of people can write, but writing isn't a lot of people's talent. I'm not trying to knock anyone, but a lot of people don't know how to tell a story and that's why they fill their stories with sex. Sex doesn't move me. I love tension and writing tension. I don't read erotic books and I don't care for detailed sex scenes. It's nothing for me to skip a detailed sex scene. I like the leave it to your imagination and yes, a lot of sex scenes that's aren't written behind closed doors are leave it to your imagination scenes in my opinion.

When I read a story, I'm not looking to see if A and B are in love, I want to see that they are in love. I want to see how they have fallen in love. I want to see interaction between the two. I want to see them making love all the time. When a hero save a heroine from danger - he's making love to her.

I want to see passion. I'm sorry, it's the writer in me coming out. I don't buy a lot of IR books, due to them being ebooks and plus, due to a lot of them being erotic stories.

Edit to say: I'm my own worst critic. I know that my stories have holes in them and I'm not afraid to make it known. I can overlook errors in other writer's story, but a writer's story has to catch my attention. I want a story at all times.


message 5: by Tina (new)

Tina | 1373 comments @Danielle - yes I think your whole post points to the crux of the matter.

This is where I think the historical lack of traditional pub contracts and a relationship with a trained editorial staff works against the IRR niche. I think while a lot of writing is art and talent, a lot more is science and technique. It is like anything that needs to be learned and honed.

And so many of these writers simply have never been exposed to that. Hence you get these stories that are chock full of cliches, malapropisms, bad grammar, continuity errors, faulty plotting etc. And all of it overlayed with copious sex.

The big disappointment I feel with IRR these days is that more and more I feel that some of the books I am reading are simply the product of a reader who think they are also a professional writer. While I think self publishing has been a great boon to the IRR sub-genre, it has also been a great bane. The lack of quality control is is out of control.

So, like Danielle, my book buying in the sub-genre has tapered off because more and more I am handing out 1-and-2- stars when I finish the story. It is so disappointing and really puts a damper on your enthusiasm after awhile.


message 6: by Anino (last edited Feb 17, 2012 06:47AM) (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I think that part of the issue is that some readers decide they want to write IR books but don't really understand the mechanics and craft that goes into writing. And probably they don't have good..."

And that is sooo true! I can tell the difference between authors who have an understanding of the mechanics and those who don't. Savannah J. Frierson, is a writer who understands the mechanics and as a result has won awards for her hard work. Other writers, who shall remain nameless, have yet to reach for that level of excellence. As an amateur proofreader (lol), it drives me up a wall when I'm reading IR fiction & it's dreadfully apparent that the author thought more about sales than character development.


message 7: by Anino (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments Overall, I just wish that some IR writers would just stop producing the mediocre pieces of crap that they've been writing and kick their game up a notch or two. I want to be excited about buying an upcoming IR release, just as excited when I buy the newest Charlaine Harris, Patricia Briggs, or Jeaniene Frost novel. I want quality and I want to be captivated when I read a book. If I spend my hard earned money to buy your book, you as the author should do your absolute best to ensure that you deliver a quality product.


message 8: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments I've said this repeatedly, but will say it again; for most writers self-publishing your first book is probably a really bad idea. For one thing, most writer's first book is not very good. You have to get a few under your belt before you're ready for prime time. I actually wish my first book hadn't been published. It's not the book I eould have written with more experience. In addition, going through the process a few times with a REPUTABLE publising house is an invaluable experience. A few years ago, back before I started writing fiction, I read an absolutely execrable IR book. It was so bad I slammed it everywhere I could. Well, the author came at me and in the ensuing discussion revealed she had NEVER READ A ROMANCE BEFORE. Yes, you heard me right, she'd never. read. a. romance. I wanted to scream. Look, I've read the genre for nearly forty years. Been writing fiction for ten. Been a professional writer for more than twenty. And I still "go to school." That is, there are some books that I literally consider to be my primers on how to tell a story. Almost all were written back in the 80s. One was written in the sixties! But every time I finish a book I go to my shelf and read one of those before I start the next one. And I always, always learn something new. If you're not constantly working on your craft you do a disservice to the genre and most importantly to readers. The genre is getting a bad reputation because of this. It's time to step up our game, ladies.


message 9: by Shiree (last edited Feb 16, 2012 03:55PM) (new)

Shiree McCarver | 305 comments As a independent writer of BW/WM and BW/AM novels I tried to give enough of my work away as either free reads or at least 3 chapters of the book on my website so the reader will have some idea. There are a lot of good points mentioned here and I know that majority of the authors can't offer a 3 chapter sample of their books when their books may only be 1 chapter. If you read my work you will know 22 pages could be one chapter of my books in some cases. My books are by no means perfect but I know my faults and lackings as a writer and I try to make up for it by at least telling a good story. I will not hit it out of the park all the time but it wasn't for lack of trying to at the very least make you feel as if you get your money's worth. It hurts all of us when you have those that just want to get your money but they don't last long trust me because what is the reasoning in getting a reader to buy your book if you can't entice them in coming back. After years of struggling last year has been the first time I realized I could actually make a living doing this if I keep working at it. I don't think there is a writer alive, not one that cares about the characters and the people reading their work ever feel as if they have the perfect formula for creating a perfect story. I think the key is to remain humble no matter how much great things you hear about yourself. I found some writers believe their own hype and have the ego's to go with it. It surprised me considering I didn't see no screenplay oscars on their bookshelf yet. LOL The best thing you can do for an author is not just stop buying their work but write them and let them know what you loved and what you didn't love about a book. I don't mind because at the end of the day it is my book and my decision but there may be something that hits me enough that I unconsiously may find myself working harder to make it better. So Thank all of you for the input you have placed on this posting.


message 10: by Nana (new)

Nana Malone (nanamalone) | 31 comments Ouch, never read a romance. Wow. I think you guys are right. a lot of readers have gotten up and said, "I can do that. How hard can it be." without any understanding of writing mechanics and story structure. then making it worse and not hiring a good editor. It kills me. Some stories wouldn't even be bad if they'd hired a decent copy editor.

@Shiree - good call. I wish more authors would do this. It can give the reader a taste of what they're going to get. A taste of your voice so to speak. As a rule I always offer a sample. The first chapter is a good indication of my voice. If you don't like it, fair enough.

I'm a little more cautious about what I buy now. I read samples first, I check to see if they have previously published first. It's not a guarantee of no errors,but it means at some point, some editor was willing to publish them. Right?

And I mostly work on word of mouth. Alas, even some of my tried and true favorites have let me down recently.


message 11: by Stacy-Deanne (last edited Feb 18, 2012 11:02AM) (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) A lot of these people aren't even real writers. Let's be real. They are writing this stuff because they think it's an easy sale. I've heard from more than one IR author say that they write what they do because, "It looked easy." Are you kidding me?

So that's why the quality in a lot of the IR books suck. These people are not even writers. You can tell the difference between someone who is writing for their career and someone who is just writing first drafts and throwing them out to make a buck. You can tell the ones who have lucked up and gotten sales so they continue to just throw out mess. One author in particular is always criticized about her lack of editing and bad writing yet people continue to eat up all her books. What I don't get is why do these readers complain about the lack of quality of her books yet still buy them? I'm sorry but once I read a few books from you and if I see you're not up to par then I don't spend more money on you.

Maybe IR readers are so desperate for the type of literature they like that they take anything as long as it's got white men and black women in it. I don't get it but if people complain about a particular author's books being horrid and still scooping them up, it makes no sense.

Another thing I see in the IR genre is the quantity over quality thing. Some have a new book out every week then when you read it, you see the author threw up the story in less than three hours and didn't do a darn thing to polish it. I consider these folks posers, not real writers.

I'm not saying that you can't have books out fast and be a good writer. Some people are very good writers who release books rather quickly but most authors who rush out books believe in quantity over quality and are more concerned about just getting books out there to build up the book count instead of actually writing something decent.

Whether you self publish or not, if you take your craft seriously, people can tell. You can tell the difference between an author who throws up junk and one who actually takes their time to write something well. A lot of these people jumped on the erotica IR bandwagon because it was selling. We know it's true.

Some know nothing about writing. As Rosalyn pointed out, some of them have never even read in the genre they're writing in! What? How can you not read and try to write? Please.

What's sad is that not only do readers continue to buy some of the badly written stuff, folks continue to publish it. So as long as money is being made the quality of the badly written books will stay the same. The author isn't in it to improve but get money. If you wanted to improve then your books would be getting better each time.

Another thing people need to stop publishing with these author mills. They take anything and there are a lot of pubs I no longer buy from because of this fact.

I don't even read IR anymore. The books I came across weren't holding my interest and seemed to be the same recycled plot over and over. BW or WM lusting over BW or WM they've wanted for years and they hook up (on page 2) and have nasty sex. This was the same plot in some of the books, over and over.

There are some IR romance authors I still enjoy and they are very good writers. Unfortunately the posers are beginning to outnumber them.

Best Wishes!

http://www.stacy-deanne.net


message 12: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) Nana, I agree with you on your first comment especially about why IR isn't as big as paranormal, etc.


message 13: by Stacy-Deanne (new)

Stacy-Deanne Stacy-Deanne (wwwgoodreadscomstacydeanne) And as someone pointed out, not everyone will like your voice or style. As an author I respect that. You gotta be true to yourself as a writer and you can't please everyone. We all have different ways of getting a story out that's unique to us. I know I've read famous authors who some folks loved and I couldn't understand why anyone bought their work. LOL! Then I've read folks that I really enjoyed and some other readers might not like them at all.

In terms of people liking the writer's voice, that's a matter of the reader's opinion. Not everyone will like the writer's style or voice and that's fine because every author is different and it's not meant for everyone to feel the same about every writer.

But writers need to remain true to their voice regardless because that's what makes you, you.


message 14: by Arch , Mod (last edited Feb 18, 2012 12:36PM) (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
As a writer, I can only speak for myself. I can't write a book or should I say a full story in three hours nor could I have multiple full stories coming out in the same week. I don't like rush stories and it seems that a lot of the interracial stories are rushed. I love reading interracial stories about bw/wm, but it has to be good stories. I will never just read a bw/wm story, because they are a pairing that I like reading about. I want a true story; Not something that has just been slapped together.

I wish there were interracial stories that were more like Julie Garwood, Anne Stuart, Linda Howard and Suzanne Brockmann line of storytelling. I want to read contemporary, action pack, suspense interracial stories. Too many interracial stories are "dramas" and I honestly don't like those kind of stories.

I honestly believe that interracial writers needs to grab a Julie Garwood, Anne Stuart, Linda Howard and Suzanne Brockmann book and learn how to tell a story from them. We need interracial stories like these stories. I want dangerous bad boy interracial stories.


message 15: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (last edited Feb 18, 2012 12:10PM) (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
I believe that somewhere along the way, the idea of a meaty plot and story got lost in IRR. Like Arch said, I won't just read a book because it's BWWM. I used to be less selective because I was so excited to see these books, and initially the quality was much better in this genre. Now, I am very picky because about 8 out of 10 synopses for BWWM IR just don't interest me. Like Stacy said, the storylines are all the same. Wealthy white man gets a hankering for a black chick, does her, several times, and then they fall in love. That just doesn't work for me. It seems sort of exploitative, honestly. I have to agree with Arch that I wished that some of these authors would read plain old good quality romance by good writers and realize there is so much variety and quality of storytelling out there, and go back to basics. Ask themselves, is their story interesting, or is it just a bunch of sex scenes and a lukewarm, barely there story thrown together.

I am not a published author, but I do write. My writing is on this site for anyone to read. I make mistakes, but I try very hard to write something I believe in and I am proud of. I was raised to put my heart and soul into everything I do, and I don't agree with publishing a mediocre book just to make money or to become famous. I don't think you should ever put your name on something you're not proud of.

As Stacy said, everyone has their own voice and style, and what interests them, and there is room in IRR for many different voices and styles. Just make sure it's well-written is all I ask. If it's erotica, I won't read it, but I know that many will read and enjoy it, and they deserve a good book for the money they spend. For me, I love romantic suspense, and old fashioned romance with a strong bond and love between the characters, excellent chemistry, and great dialogue, with 3-dimensional characters, and I hope IRR will publish great books in those genres.

I am not a picky person as far as editing and grammar. I will overlook a few errors if the story is good. But I do want a quality story, especially if the person doesn't write like they have a PhD in grammar and writing mechanics. I like to see a real connection between the characters, and I like characters to meet in novel ways, not just for hooking up.

I honestly believe that poor quality writing in this genre is hurting it. I hope that this changes, because I want to see IRR become mainstream, like it should be, and not some fetish-type genre, like it seems to be right now.


message 16: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
I have to say that Danielle is a good storyteller. If you get a chance to read her stories, please do so. I was going to say this in my last comment, but didn't, but now I will. Danielle and Rae knows how to write a dangerous bad boy bw/wm interracial story. Their stories are story themes that I would love to see more interracial writers write. They don't write the same bw/wm theme that a lot of writers are writing. They have stepped onto Anne Stuart, Julie Garwood, Linda Howard and Suzanne Brockmann's storytelling road.

Does anyone knows where I can let publishers know what I want to see in interracial stories? I would let them know that I want the interracial Hitman, Transporter, Navy Seal, Lawmen, etc. storylines.

I want the beef. Where's the beef?


message 17: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
Thanks for saying so, Arch.


message 18: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "Thanks for saying so, Arch."

You are welcome Danielle. It's so true. I'm glad that I have had the opportunity to read your stories.


message 19: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments I write a lot of action adventure stories. My latest, Dark Star, is action adventure and it's not erotic.


message 20: by Karen (new)

Karen Scott (karenknowsbest) | 26 comments I am not a picky person as far as editing and grammar. I will overlook a few errors if the story is good.

The problem I have though is sometimes a perfectly good plot/story etc, can be absolutely wrecked by bad grammar, lots of typos, and generally bad presentation. I've read too many IR books where bad grammar, and glaring spelling mistakes took me out of the story.

I want to always feel the same way as I do when I pick up a Brenda Jackson book. To know I'm in safe hands in terms of the quality of the editing. That's not too much to ask for is it?


message 21: by Arch , Mod (last edited Feb 19, 2012 08:07AM) (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
All writers have errors in their stories. I have not read one story that didn't have errors. I know that my stories have errors in them and I'm not afraid to admit that. English was one of my favorite subjects in school and I know that if I was to take an author's book, no matter who she or he is and compare grammar rules to each page of their story, I will find all the errors they have made in their stories.

Again, writing isn't every writer's talent. And having a talent doesn't exempt a person from errors.

This year will make 25 years that I have been writing. I don't desire to be published and no, I'm not afraid of rejection. A rejection wouldn't mean that writing isn't my talent. I know that I wouldn't write stories someone else wanted me to write.

I believe that if a writer wants to get published, he or she should always present a readable story. This doesn't mean that the writer's story will not have errors in them, because every writer's story have errors in them. I don't care what anyone says.

I don't know if they still do this, because I haven't been looking to be honest, but back in the day, a lot of authors would have their email address in their book, so that readers could contact them. I feel that if a reader is going to contact and author about errors in their book, they need to be nice and better be perfect in grammar. One thing that I hate and that is, a person telling me that I don't know how to write and they don't even know how to write themselves.

Being nice is always the key for both parties.


message 22: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
Karen wrote: "I am not a picky person as far as editing and grammar. I will overlook a few errors if the story is good.

The problem I have though is sometimes a perfectly good plot/story etc, can be absolutely ..."


Karen, I can see your point. For me, I don't get to that when I see a few errors. If the whole book is like that and it's completely unpolished and unprofessional looking, then I might feel that way.


message 23: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (last edited Feb 19, 2012 12:41PM) (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
Arch wrote: "All writers have errors in their stories. I have not read one story that didn't have errors. I know that my stories have errors in them and I'm not afraid to admit that. English was one of my favor..."


Arch, regarding contacting a writer with all the errors in their book, that's pretty rude, IMO. Although I don't personally agree with snarky, mean-spirited reviews, I think a reader has the freedom to address those issues in a review. It's their review, after all. However, to approach a reviewer to give them an unwanted critique of their work...not appropriate in my opinion.


message 24: by Karen (new)

Karen Scott (karenknowsbest) | 26 comments Arch, regarding contacting a writer with all the errors in their book, that's pretty rude, IMO.

I have to disagree with you actually, I think as long as the reader is polite, pointing out grammatical errors to an author who might have missed it the first time round, is valuable. It's not something I would do, but that's because I just couldn't be bothered.


message 25: by Nana (new)

Nana Malone (nanamalone) | 31 comments As an IR writer, all I can say is I've been really disappointed lately by my fellow IR romance writers. I think some writers start out initially strong, especially the ones published by traditional houses, but then peter out just slapping it together and making it hot, but not taking their time.

For me, I try and think about the last book I read more than once and challenge myself to be on that level. If I'm writing in contemporary, I want to be as good as Jane Green, Sophie Kinsella or Nora Roberts. I aim to have a crossover novel that's aimed at everyone just with a heroine that happens to look like me. As far as I'm concerned, that should be the only distinguishable difference between and IRR book and a mainstream romance.

I think other authors get caught up in the rush to get something out that they don't hire professional independent editors and don't do professional covers etc.

Add to that they don't understand story structure and hone their craft and you get shoddy work. Writing isn't an easy endeavor. It takes time.


message 26: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments I don't think it's rude to contact the swriter either, and frankly, the reader diesn't even have to be polite. To me, when a reader puts her money down we have a contract--for that money I am to provide a service--several hours of entertainment. At the bare minimum a reader has the right to expect a professionally written and edited book. PERIOD. If I fail to provide that service she has the right to let me know. In fact I appreciate her putting forth the effort. I owe her an apology, and I owe future readers a greater effort. This is no game. Times are hard and people have limited resources. Nothing makes me angrier than a poorly written book. It's a waste if both my time and money.


message 27: by Dahlia (new)

Dahlia DeWinters (dahliadewinters) | 56 comments I have to agree with most of this discussion. Before I even submitted my first book to my publisher, I had several people read it over for continuity and error. I then had it "read aloud" to me via a software program which helped me find repeated words and overused phrases.

I read books and/or articles about the writer's craft daily. I write at least 1k words daily to keep in practice. I have betas. And my book went through two rounds of edits. This is AFTER I toiled over it.

Writing is a craft that you feel is never done. Even now, I don't re-read my book because I KNOW I'll find places where "I could have expressed that better". But the point is, keep at it, keep learning, keep growing.

On the other hand, I've seen stories posted to various website that are just horridly done. And I'm not merely referenced technical errors. I'm talking dialogue, cardboard characters, etc. Next thing you know, these stories are up on Amazon for sale! And people buy them...then complain that they are poorly written and/or silly or unbelievable. Then, they write "Maybe their next one will be better."

It makes the authors that are working hard at their craft look bad. It's rather disheartening, to say the least. It's difficult enough to get your name out there and when people are putting out poor product in your genre, well...what can you do but continue to put forth your best effort?


message 28: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments Check out a post over at Dear Author today about writers gaming the review system. Creating dozens of accounts so they can write sock puppet reviews. That certainly explains at least one book I bought last year that's riddled with errors to the point I had to DNF it, yet at last count it had nearly a hundred 5 star reviews. And you're right Dahlia it dies a disservice to those of us who work to produce a quality product. I didn't know you could create multiple accounts, and I thought you had to buy the book you reviewed.


message 29: by Dahlia (new)

Dahlia DeWinters (dahliadewinters) | 56 comments @Roslyn,

That's just sad and makes the people not trust the Amazon reviews.


message 30: by The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears (last edited Feb 20, 2012 12:50PM) (new)

The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears (thefountainpendiva) | 1210 comments About Amazon reviews: I've pretty much given up on anything coming from that direction because there's just been way too much drama, most of it coming from the authors themselves. They do themselves no great favor by padding the reviews because a savvy reader once burned will never read anything from them again. In the end they lose out.

Now, everyone here pretty much knows that I am a HUGE fantasy junkie and I would LOVE to see more IR high fantasy books that are as sweeping as A Game of Thronesor Tolkien's works (though perhaps not as long, LOL). The same way with Steampunk, though there's a lot more happening with this genre due in a large part to fans of color who are demanding their place in this alternate universe and are doing something about it. If you haven't read them yet, Robert Roman's Iron Angel duology The Strange Fate of Capricious Jones and A Christmas Evening Vigil are excellent steampunk novels with black women as heroines. I really urge you to check them out!

Having said that, I'm just one reader in the wilderness. Authors are going to write what they think we black women want to read, which tends to be the "rich white man falls for poor, but virtuous black woman" or the "we're in love but he's white and I'm black and no one will accept us" plots. I don't know how many times I've heard some black women readers say they wouldn't read either sci-fi or fantasy, or worse, whenever a black woman heroine is involved in an atypical profession, there's backlash from some readers about "black women don't do those things/talk that way/etc." That's got to be pretty disheartening as an author and probably leads some of them to just go back to what's safe.

I am one who rewards authors, especially in this genre, who take risks and give me what I crave. When I find authors who write what speaks deeply to me and who make me a better writer as a whole, I'm your fan for life, LOL!

I can be pretty forgiving with some spelling or grammatical errors, but that all depends on how well the story is overall. Nothing annoys me as much as spending three bucks on a less than one-hundred page e-book and not just finding a crap-stack of spelling mistakes, but just no plot or characters whatsoever. If it's erotic, fine, but I need to understand why these two (or more) people are getting together in the first place. And for goddess' sake, leave the purple prose alone! If I read about one more "thundering orgasm" or "flowing creme" one more time, it won't be too soon. Sometimes less is more and remember, the best sex organ is the brain. Explicit is one thing. Explicitly silly is something else entirely. Granted, writing good sex scenes is very hard, so it always helps to read some of the better erotica authors out there as well as the classics like Anais Nin to get a feel for the flow of a scene.


message 31: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with the rich dude falls for virtuous maiden stories. That type of rescue fantasy can be fun, and is popular across all demographics. if it wasn't Harlequin wouldn't have a billion books with the word billionaire in the title! But I like to mix things up too, snd yeah, it's a right pisser when those books don't sell. I think that whatever we choose to write should be the highest quality we can produce. I like paranormals and will do more. I'll even do more historicals though sales were bad. It's a fact of life: people claim that they want books that are different, but when you write it, they don't buy it. I have a lot of variety in my catalog, but my bestsellers by far are the rescue fantasies. I'll keep writing them. They're fun and they sell, but I won't stop exploring other genres as well.


message 32: by Dahlia (new)

Dahlia DeWinters (dahliadewinters) | 56 comments Same here, Roslyn. I write what I want to see. My first book is/was about a black woman who is cursed to be a shapeshifting cat until she can fine someone to break the spell. Real simple, straightforward and way fluffy.No high drama, no race discussion and no billionaires!

That's not to say that there isn't a place for the rescue fantasy. Who doesn't like to be whisked away? But I'll also agree with Vixenne that many of the IR I've read - that's the focus. Either that or a lot of high, crazy drama that is exhausting and not fun to read.

I'm also working stories that are sci-fi/horror based. Simply put, I write what I would like to read. It may not sell, but they are sure fun to put together!


message 33: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
That's why I started writing. Because I wanted to see more stories I wanted to read. I like a good variety of stories, which is why I read between genres on a regular basis. I just hope that IRR would stop pigeonholing itself into one genre/one story.


The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears (thefountainpendiva) | 1210 comments You're talking to someone who considers Princess Leia one of her favourite heroes, LOL. I like it when authors subvert standard tropes and rescue the prince instead of the other way around. Like Lady Danielle, I also wish IR's would expand genres the way I see happening with M/M romance and even erotica.


message 35: by Anino (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments Vixenne wrote: "You're talking to someone who considers Princess Leia one of her favourite heroes, LOL. I like it when authors subvert standard tropes and rescue the prince instead of the other way around. Like ..."

@Vixenne, Now that would be very interesting... The Rich High-Powered Socially-Inept Sista could fall for the Free-Spirited Coffee House Barista. Hmmmm.... Oh the Possibilities...


The FountainPenDiva, Old school geek chick and lover of teddy bears (thefountainpendiva) | 1210 comments Now that's exactly what I'm talking about, LOL! I'd definitely read something like that! I mean, why does the guy always have to be rich and powerful? Seriously, Oprah's not exactly hurting for cash, LOL.


message 37: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
I write stories that I want to see in the interracial genre. Maybe one day, the stories that I write and love reading will be there. I have to be patient and in the meanwhile, keep writing.


message 38: by Stephanie (new)

Stephanie | 5 comments OMG! I love this thread!!! You ladies are right on with your analyses of the IR genre market. Many a time I've had to keep from pulling my hair out due to frustration. I can't tell you all how many times I have bought something on Amazon only to be sorely disappointed.

At least I know 1. that I am not alone, and 2. there are writers out there who feel like me and are aiming to do better.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


message 39: by Anino (last edited Feb 21, 2012 06:59AM) (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments @Arch, maybe you should consider publishing a compilation of IR short stories w/your favorite authors. If the writing is good and the cover art is top notch, I would definitely buy it. I don't have a problem paying over $5 for a well-written/produced product. As a matter of fact, if Savannah J. Frierson writes another great book, I will it via lulu.com for the listed price ($7.99-10.00). I'd rather pay $10 for a well-edited book, then pay $.99-3.50 for a book that is so grammatically incorrect, that it makes me want to scream.


message 40: by Anino (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments Stephanie wrote: "OMG! I love this thread!!! You ladies are right on with your analyses of the IR genre market. Many a time I've had to keep from pulling my hair out due to frustration. I can't tell you all how ..."

@Stephanie, I love the pricing on Amazon.com, but like you, I can tell that some of the books are mediocre at best, which is really a shame.


message 41: by Arch , Mod (new)

Arch  | 6568 comments Mod
Anino (aka the Whisperquiet Ninja) wrote: "@Arch, maybe you should consider publishing a compilation of IR short stories w/your favorite authors. If the writing is good and the cover art is top notch, I would definitely buy it. I don't have..."

Thanks Anino. I honestly don't desire to be published. If you want to check out my free dangerous bad body story with holes bka errors in it, then you are more than welcome to read it. You might find it to be horrible and that's okay. I'm my own worst critic.


message 42: by Anino (new)

Anino  (anino) | 773 comments Arch wrote: "Anino (aka the Whisperquiet Ninja) wrote: "@Arch, maybe you should consider publishing a compilation of IR short stories w/your favorite authors. If the writing is good and the cover art is top not..."

Believe me when I say that you are in good company...


message 43: by Stephanie (new)

Stephanie | 5 comments Anino (aka the Whisperquiet Ninja) wrote: "Arch wrote: "Anino (aka the Whisperquiet Ninja) wrote: "@Arch, maybe you should consider publishing a compilation of IR short stories w/your favorite authors. If the writing is good and the cover ..."

I second this!


message 44: by A.C. (new)

A.C. Mason (acmason) | 17 comments Lady Danielle "The Book Huntress" wrote: "I think that part of the issue is that some readers decide they want to write IR books but don't really understand the mechanics and craft that goes into writing. And probably they don't have good..."

Very well said.


message 45: by A.C. (new)

A.C. Mason (acmason) | 17 comments Stacy-Deanne wrote: "A lot of these people aren't even real writers. Let's be real. They are writing this stuff because they think it's an easy sale. I've heard from more than one IR author say that they write what the..."

Interesting... I do think some people are shying away from IR because of this.


message 46: by A.C. (new)

A.C. Mason (acmason) | 17 comments Given everything that has been going on with IR books, myself and a few others are trying to start an RWA chapter for interracial, multicultural, and cultural romance to have place where aspiring authors can learn about the craft, authors can network, host contest for published and unpublished work in the interracial, multicultural, and cultural (Historical; Short/Series Contemporary; Long/Single-Title Contemporary; Erotic; Futuristic, Fantasy &Paranormal; Romantic Suspense; Novel with Strong Romantic Elements; Young Adult.


message 47: by Stephanie (new)

Stephanie | 5 comments a.c. wrote: "Given everything that has been going on with IR books, myself and a few others are trying to start an RWA chapter for interracial, multicultural, and cultural romance to have place where aspiring a..."

Just tell me where and when, a.c!


message 48: by A.C. (new)

A.C. Mason (acmason) | 17 comments Stephanie wrote: "Just tell me where and when, a.c!"

Thanks for our interest. We need champions/ambassadors of the genre. I've sent you message on how to get in touch with us.



message 49: by Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More), Sees Love in All Colors (new)

 Danielle The Book Huntress (Wants to Read More) (gatadelafuente) | 7308 comments Mod
Thanks, AC. I think your idea of an RWA chapter is great. I'd probably join!


message 50: by Roslyn (new)

Roslyn | 249 comments Hit me up a.c. I'm all for it!


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