The Stand
discussion
King - can he write decent endings?
It's a common and valid criticism of King that his resolutions do not live up to their premises. That's a fair critique as well as a huge compliment to the creativitiy of the man himself. We're disappointed because we love so much of what he writes.
moore wrote: "It's a common and valid criticism of King that his resolutions do not live up to their premises. That's a fair critique as well as a huge compliment to the creativitiy of the man himself. We're d..."I kind of agree with your comment. The man writes such a great story. It builds up so much that it can only end with a bang. But the story sometimes is just so great that it's almost a case of how do you top that momentum with a perfect ending. "It" is the perfect example of this. I agree that it is a compliment to SK because despite some bad endings, you still end up loving the book. The story is just too good to dismiss the ride because the ending didn't live up to expectation.
Veeral wrote: "My thoughts exactly Helen! I really think that King can't write decent ends. But he did it good comparatively in his recent novel '11/22/63'."In the credits for 11/22/63, King thanks his son Joe Hill for helping with the ending. Joe Hill can write fantastic endings...King, no. :)
Tracey wrote: "I think it would be easier to list his books with decent endings; Bag of Bones and Duma Key are a few.The Stand is one of my favorite books but the ending just kind of fizzles out."
Tracey, I have to disagree about the ending in Duma Key. I felt the ending was fairly...what's the word....sucky? :)
Regarding King and endings: I have still not forgiven him for the Turtle thing in the ending of "It". As a long-time King fan, I have come to the conclusion that his books are about the journey and not the destination/ending. He has to be considered one of the worst ending-writers there is, living or dead. :)
Pamela wrote: "Regarding King and endings: I have still not forgiven him for the Turtle thing in the ending of "It". As a long-time King fan, I have come to the conclusion that his books are about the journey a..."I have to agree with you on the "It" ending. What an incredible ride but what a letdown at the end. However, I still consider it one of my favorites. You can't deny how good the overall story is and what great characters SK created. For as spooky as the story is we should all be so lucky to experience childhood friends like these.
I am SO with you! I have always said the same thing. King grabs me right out of the gate and I am loving the story. Then it reaches the end and I have ALWAYS wanted to throw the book! I read The Stand in the 80's and remember being terrified and then disappointed at the end. I just gave it a re-read and it really is a drag. Remember "IT"? I swore off King after that for a long time. Just read "The Dome" and now I'm completely done....I am a great lover of an ambiguous ending-these are just plain terrible. Sometimes (as in "The Dome") I seriously thought the author lost interest and just found a quick way out.
(In the spirit of full disclosure I am still a "Creepshow" fan)
Helen wrote: "Now let me say that for the most part, I LOVE every Stephen King book I've read...until I get towards the end. Then I always feel as if he wasn't sure how to wrap everything up and his endings cons..."I totally agree!
What a great thread. Everyone I've ever met who reads a lot of Stephen King always has a comment about his endings. I seem to recall Girl who Loved Tom Gordon had a particularly feeble ending, and Rose Madder too, though it's years since I read them.I think, certainly earlier on in his career, he was so prolific and, as has been covered on this topic, he didnt always have an ending until he got there, that his endings suffered as a result. He'd start crafting a typically engaging, entertaining story and three quarters of the way through he'd have another great idea and want to get to that so we're left with a series of weak endings.
However, as anyone who has read my profile, blog etc will know, I'm a huge King fan and when he's on form I honestly don't think there's a better storyteller.
Agrimorfee wrote: "It is weird how many people have different views of bad endings in SK's works. Sometimes he just takes too long to end. Really Bad endings, IMHO: Cell, Through a Buick 8, Colorado Kid, Black House..."I agree with you about the Dark Tower ending. I liked it as well. It made me want to start reading the series again.
Most of his endings are a let down. I agree with others who say it seems as though he's not sure how to end the story. I think that 11/22/63 was definitely one of his better endings in a long time. It was kind of open ended which in a way made it good because it left it up to the reader to decide what happened. Yes, Jake went and found Sadie but that's where it ended, it doesn't say if he just saw her the one time or if they stated together...
Sometimes the endings are good. The one in Needful Things was. And, although the ones in Pet Sematery and Cujo were negative, they were still good endings.But, if you asked me (and the fact that it's a discussion I took to mean people would be interested in my viewpoint) I think he should either stick with what he knows or at the very least, ask a person who does that work what the work is really like.
And, by that, I DON'T mean a doctor. Most doctors don't have a clue what goes on in emergency medicine, b/c the medical field has become too specialized for any one doctor to know everything there is to know about it. And, they only take one first aid course if they're not Emergency Physicians or Surgeons, so they can forget what they learned when they don't use it very often.
I work in Prehospital Care, and I'd like just once to be able to read a book in which it was obvious that the author asked the RIGHT person about Emergency Medicine. It's really obvious to a Paramedic that they didn't ask the right kind of doctor about emergency procedures, and yes it's a pet peeve of mine.
I don't appreciate working on a Trauma 3 patient, one who's just conscious enough to be obnoxious and telling me I don't know what I'm talking about b/c "Stephen King says you're wrong about that."
That MIGHT be a LITTLE ego on my part, but it's also making my job more difficult to have to argue with someone about his treatment when I'm supposed to be treating him, not arguing. Our captain has made it brain-bendingly clear what our responsibilities are and arguing with patients is definitely NOT one of them.
At the very least, Stephen King has to be aware that certain people take what he says like it was sent straight down from the burning bush. I mean he's been a writer way longer than I have; I'm in fact not really a writer, but I have college credits in Creative Writing.
Anyway, that's just a little wish of mine, to be able to read a book in which they know or research my profession, but I know it probably won't happen outside of Robin Cook, a writer I love for all the obvious reasons.
I think it was in the afterword in the Dark Tower that King said himself that some people will be disappointed with what happend in the end but he hoped that by reading all 7 books comprised of thousands of pages the reader would come to the realization that it is the journey to get there is what really matters. I for one at once hated the ending, laughing out loud that King was a maniacal evil genius trickster who duped everyone who read the entire series. Then I thought back on what he said and now I consider it completely appropriate and one of my favorite endings."It" got a little too weird with an awkward moment with the kids...
The Long Walk was great! I read it years ago but still think about it all the time.
The Stand ending was a little hokey to me but overall did not ruin the book.
Pet Semetary was also an awesome ending!
So to answer the question I say yes of course he CAN write good endings. Does he always do so? No...
I agree that many King endings aren't that great. I thought Firestarter (novel) was a fitting end. Many would probably disagree with this, but I thought Apt Pupil(short story) also had a strong, (warped) ending.My hate list for King endings would include Black House, Wizard and Glass, Salem's Lot, and The Stand
Pet Semetary has a great ending.Re Dark Tower books-never go into them either! (That talking train was the last straw...)
The only King book I like is "The Stand". I initially had the same blah reaction to the ending, but upon further reflection, I came to realize that he may have ended it like that on purpose to communicate that the tension between good and evil will never be resolved as long as there are humans.
I think a decent ending is being accomplished for the person who feels the author has delivered a decent ending. There are no rules how to end a story. Speaking as an author, myself. (I've learnt a little literature lessons during my education).
Marica wrote: "I think a decent ending is being accomplished for the person who feels the author has delivered a decent ending. There are no rules how to end a story. Speaking as an author, myself. (I've learnt a..."I lost two pretty good manuscripts for want of a decent ending. My epiphany upon getting it right was that I really can't figure it out. It's alchemy.
In my opinion, it's a dynamic that grows out of the interplay of plot and story. Can't be planned. You can stack the deck by inserting subtle elements that tie the beginning to the end, but that's an art and you have to make certain that the gears don't show.
The writer can (hopefully) recognize failure or success, but other than that --in my opinion-- we're all flying blind.
I love King, he's one of my favorites. I've never felt dissatisfied with his endings. Everyone I know complained about the Dark Tower ending but I loved it, even though I thought he was a bastard for what he did to poor Roland, I felt the ending suited the whole story, it made me go what the F oh crap! because it made me remember EVERYTHING Roland sacrificed which is all I'll say 'cause I don't want to be a spoiler. I do however have books of his that I just don't like period. Like the Tommyknockers,*snore* and Under the Dome which was basically just the same characters from the Stand...under a dome lol
Michael wrote: "Marica wrote: "I think a decent ending is being accomplished for the person who feels the author has delivered a decent ending. There are no rules how to end a story. Speaking as an author, myself...."What a great way to describe this process Michael. That is sometimes the hardest part of writing, being able to end it without making a reader feel cheated and most important, like you mentioned, being able to end a story without letting the reader see the gears.
I just cant jump on "The Stands" bad ending bandwagon.I thought the book was great and finished well.Under the Dome on the other hand was silly, and the ending was straight from the TV series "The Twilight Zone", just plain awful in every aspect.
The Stand was fantastic... until the end. It's good enough that I might read it again, even knowing the end is weak. Deus ex machina pulls the life out of a story.
I have never been disappointed by any of his endings. I always felt they were extremely appropriate. They may not be the ending you want but that doesn't make them bad.
It has nothing to with being the ending I wanted.
I wasn't talking to anyone in particular, just saying you may feel that his endings aren't what you were hoping for but that is life, not everything ends happily or even actually has any resolution.
His endings have always been fine by me ~ but I never finished Cell because it could not come close to Pet Sematary, Carrie, Cujo, Misery, Salem's Lot and so on. I also did not read The Dark Tower series which could not sustain my interest.
Kimberly wrote: " Everyone I know complained about the Dark Tower ending but I loved it,... I do however have books of his that I just don't like period. Like the Tommyknockers,*snore* ..."
Never read Dark Tower, I've got the first two but can't get through part one, Tommyknockers on the other hand, which received a lot of flack, I simply loved, in large part because of how unashamedly silly it was.
It's a B-Movie SF-Horror novel, but with characters I did care for.
King is my favorite authour, hands down. He's writen a lot of my favourite books and I've always been a-ok with the endings. EXCEPT for Dark Tower. The last 3 books in that series were disappointing. And by disappointing, I mean devasting when it came to the last one. I felt as if I went through an amazing journey with those characters only to get shot out at the end. I'm a sucker though, anf am looking forward to reeading the latest installment. Anyone read it?
honestly probably not , for example the stand was amazing to me , the character development , plot , events , the characters themselves and then when it comes towards the end it just feels like I should stop before the ending .another novel the running man which is the kind of story I like , it had so much potential and he could have done more with it until you reach the ending .
Misery is a classic horror and very enjoyable but the ending needs more .
it just feels like because he writes horror the ending has to be very bleak as in death which is quite sad since the book in itself can be great , just don't get to the ending .
Helen wrote: "Now let me say that for the most part, I LOVE every Stephen King book I've read...until I get towards the end. Then I always feel as if he wasn't sure how to wrap everything up and his endings cons..."YES YES YES! I thought I was the only one with that impression. I have never once felt staisfied with any of his endings.
I dont get all the hate for IT 's conclusion. I feel as though folks with that opinion didnt read any of the final pages (minor spoilers here) that give an appropriate wrapup as to what the Losers lost or gained, and how one last vistage of the innocence of 1958 helps one of them survive the trauma of 1985.It was an epic tale that deserved a thoughtful wrapup, and it got it.
Stephen King has an understandable problem ending his long horror fiction. I think the trouble is that his monsters in these books are just so powerful and horrible that only deus ex machina works. Pretty much every supernatural antagonist I can think of in King's novels is defeated by some kind of ridiculous magic or the intervention of God or some alien force.
I'm not sure if this is due to the way King views the world or if it's just that King makes his villains so invincible and horrible that deus ex machina is the only way to get to a happy ending.
There was such a build up in The Stand. The ending was nothing. I expected more of a battle at the end.
David wrote: "There was such a build up in The Stand. The ending was nothing. I expected more of a battle at the end."I answer with an ironic, "amen".
The Stand is the only King I've ever read, and what bothers me the most about the ending is that I feel the same general events could have happened and been a great conclusion if only the execution had been more climactic. The bravery of the characters needed to be felt with more of a bang, not just with them walking in front of a bus because God told them to do it. And while the presence of God was pretty literal throughout, it bothered much less when it was mainly felt in the character's heads.Also, it irked me a little that out of the sacrificial four, Stu was spared for no real reason other than being the main character and having precious Fran to get back to.
Short answer: YES. In his short stories of novellas, definitely. I can give you three, and their last lines."....I hope the sea is as blue as it is in my dreams. I hope." -Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redeption
"There is something odd about her grip, and halfway through the second act he realizes what it was. The little finger on her right hand is missing." --Quitters, Inc., Night Shift (THE story from THE book that got me hooked on SK. PLEASE read this if you haven't!!!!)
"ladyfingers they taste like ladyfingers" --Survivor Type, Skeleton Crew (Ok, not great, but kind of funny.)
I haven't read everything by Stephen King, but most of what I've read and finished, I've loved, or at least haven't forgotten. I LOVE his short stories. Even if can't get through all his novels, his short stories can be awesome.
I think if the end of his books didnt dissapoint you in some way he failed. And you are forgetting about THINNER. Now there was a proper ending...well if thats the end you think he is lacking.
What about THINNER??!?
Gary wrote: "As a Christian writer, he can only have one ending for his horror tales..."this, i have to say, is a very good point.
Ryan wrote: "He may struggle with endings to his novels, but he can end a short story like nobody's business.lady fingers they taste just like lady fingers"
YES. king is a short story badass. his longer stuff is, well, hit-and-miss, especially re: the endings of his longer stories.
i suppose my biggest gripe with king isn't necessarily so much his story endings, but his characterisation. king can build atmosphere and concepts like a champion... and then completely loses merit with the way he writes people, especially women.he's great at writing really fucked up things. he's great at writing people doing really fucked up things. he's terrible at writing normal, every day things about people; in other words, character-building. most of his characters read like caricatures to me. it's as if he doesn't have a clue how people work and operate.
he also needs a new editor because the amount of times i've spotted spelling and grammatical mistakes in his books is off the charts. (not to mention that king needs an editor to slash all of his rambling down - god *damn*, can the guy ramble. especially his earlier books - i can literally see king's drunkenness coming through his rambling in his earlier books.)
despite all that, i really enjoy reading him. haha. i guess i just accept that his books are problematic, to say the least, and take the most from his usually brilliant use of atmosphere and concepts.
i think the problem with this ending was that stephen king didn't really want to stop writing this.best. characters. ever.
shirty wrote: "i suppose my biggest gripe with king isn't necessarily so much his story endings, but his characterisation. king can build atmosphere and concepts like a champion... and then completely loses merit..."I have always found his characterization terrific. I can always relate characters to people that I actually know, you may not like his characterization of women but I have met women that behave exactly like the way he describes them.
With such a big body of work any author is going to have hit or miss endings. By the time we work our way through the tome that is the story we feel bonded with certain characters and really have our own endings in mind, so of course, when we come to his ending and its different....well, we may be disappointed.
Just as a point: there is a difference between a bad ending, as in one that disregards all rules set up by the author throughout the story; and that of an ending you don't like because it isn't happy.For example: the movie Seven. I hated the ending. Completely hated it. But, I had to admit that it was the only ending it could logically be. It fit the rules of the characters, it was true to the story, and it was the only conclusion to the events that had been set in place. The ending still sucked.
King's books often end in a dissatisfying manner because they are sucky endings, not because they are bad endings. (I don't know if I'm getting that point across or not.)
None of the endings to his books are really happy, per se, but they are consistent.
Only one book was satisfying in its ending, in my opinion (and I've read all but three of his novels), and that is The Talisman. I love this book. It has a good, satisfying, and consistent ending.
I can't think of a caricature to assign to more than just a couple characters in The Stand. Sometimes the bad guys fall a little flat, but for the most part they just feel like people.
IT is definitely the worst ending ever... I mean, really?
Sandyboy wrote: all except for The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon which i just can't be bothered with I'll save you the trouble...... decent read, with a terrible ending. One of the first books I read from him where I finished and thought..... WTF was that? What happened? How about a fucking epilogue.
The Long Walk is one of the most profound, inspiring, thought provoking books I have ever read, I am in the military though so I don't know if will have the same impact on everyone...... the only book from King I have ever read twice, but the ending, or lack there of, is absolutely fucking terrible. Some people here have stated they liked the ending.... but there wasn't one, there was just a line of text ending with "... and he found the strength to run" That is not an ending, at least not a good or complete one. Give me an epilogue, tell me he married the girlfriend he almost died for, tell me what he asked for, tell me what happened to him.
This is my biggest problem with King books, Gerald's Game, The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon, The Long Walk...... you get emotionally invested in these characters, who are put through absolutely ridiculous ordeals, they overcome everything and just when things look up.... BAM, book is over and your left with nothing.... Girl Who Loved TG is the same way, a final line and over, never to know what happens to her.
To date I have never read a King book with a satisfactory ending, let alone a good one, or even solid. I have since stopped reading/wasting my time with his books. I can't support someone who constantly and consistently half-asses their work.
To me, Stephen King is to readers what EA is to gamers.....
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