Stranger in a Strange Land
discussion
Did anyone else feel changed after this book?
It's been years since I've ready this, but I do remember feeling very differently when I finished reading it. I found myself looking at the world in ways I hadn't before, and yes, I think maybe I was happier for a time. You're making me wonder what the effect would be of re-reading it now, so many years later. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say.
No. It was boring and preachy. Maybe if I had read it in my youth?
Timothy--exactly! I read it as a precocious pre-teen (older brothers and a tolerant librarian) and it warped my mind. It is still one of my favorites, because of that. Many of Heinlein's earlier books were "juvies" so that was where he came from. It was like all those mind-expanding, half-drunk conversations you had in college that were silly when you're older and sober. I did reread other books by him, in particular, PODKAYNE FROM MARS, which devastated me because I read it when I was 10, right after my brother was killed. It was wonderful for a girl my age, because here was a female character who was having adventures. I was devastated at the end of it, but when I re-read it 20+ years later, I saw I'd misinterpreted it. I mentioned it at a Boston WorldCon where Ian and Betty Ballantine were guests and they said what I thought I'd read as a child was the original ending and they'd made him change it. Soon after, Tor released a trade paperback with both endings.
I'm grateful to my brothers for introducing me to RAH at exactly the right time. STRANGER is a mind game and you have to admit, there was absolutely nothing like it out there at the time. It was a SF game changer that affected a generation.
I read it in high school on a whim, I saw it collecting dust on my mother's bookshelf, read the description and decided to give it a go. It was the unedited version as well. It was a period of time in my life where I was going through a decidedly existential phase, as I think most people in their late teens do, and I think it was the perfect time to read it. I think this book and Demian by Hermann Hesse, which I also read around the same time as Stranger, both have done wonders in shaping who I am today.
Perhaps that is the best explanation to it - those of use who felt strongly moved read it at just the right time of our lives. What's funny though, is that even now I rate it 2 stars. Why? Because I loved it...and it disturbed me. It shook my world and made me think differently. Isn't it odd that I hold out at 2 because there is still that residual anger of 'how dare you make me think outside what I have up until now.' I wonder if anyone else felt that at all.I read this book 25 years ago and it STILL is impacting me. Imagine that. How many books can you say that about?
I read Stranger, when it first appeared on the shelves. I've read it enough to have been forced to buy a new copy. It is and always has been a great escape for me.Look at a list of Heinlein books, and you'll see how many of them I've read. I like the way I think he thinks.
My memory is developing some sizable holes, But as far as I can remember,The fiction I have read has not had any effect on my lifw. I read for the pure pleasure of it.I have read several thousand books, No exaggeration. Many of them I have read many times. I look at the titles on this site, and see a lot of old friends. In a lot of cases, I get the hunger, to reread. there are many I do not want to read again They disappointed me.I won't live long enough to read all of the books I'd like to read, but I hope there is a good book in my hand, when I close my eyes for the last time.
Oh yeah, this one was important. I may have the sequence wrong, but it may have his first "adult" book that included his more egalitarian themes, including strong female characters (as opposed to Starship Troopers). In Friday, these themes are repeated, as well as better definitions of an open family: "A collection of people living together for mutual benefit including the raising and nurturing of children." The Lazarus Long series continues this as well.Plus there are the little things: "Grass was meant to be walked on."
Kenneth - don't you sometimes quote a line from a book? Or recognize a real-world situation mirroring something you've read? If Yes, then those books have had an effect on you.
When I first read it back in the '60s, I recall it had an effect on me. If nothing else, I think it allowed me to open myself up to new experiences and try things I would have never tried before. I don't know if I read it now how I would feel. I think it's one of those books that I feel was perfect at one time, but could never touch me in the same way.
I read it in 1969 as a 13 year old, and it changed my life... I became sceptical of government and religion and much more open in affection with my friends.
While Stranger did effect me, I'd have to say that The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson, had a more profound impact. I was already into government conspiracies, etc. but the Trilogy blew me away. This was back in the mid-70s remember, with things like Watergate a recent memory.That's something I should probably re-read one of these days.
I recall, after reading Stranger, waiting to for news, Announcing that Robert heinlein had been burned at the stake. Every tine I think about him, I have to smile. He knew how to keep you awake nights, and Stranger was a book, that could stir the blood.You're right LAZ. He did affect me, I was entertained.
This was the book that really opened my eyes to the problem of sexism in science fiction. The only thing that changed within me was a new sense of astonishment at how many people are willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that this book is sexist and homophobic junk, perhaps because it's been so consistently highly rated. The supposed deep ideas of this book are actually pretty superficial and mundane.
Absolutely!I read this book about 20 years ago when I was about 20 or so. I felt quite different and looked at the world slightly different afterward. I still mark it as one of the books that left the deepest mark on me.
I still use the term "grok" now and then.
Timothy wrote: "No. It was boring and preachy. Maybe if I had read it in my youth?"I read this book as an adult and didn't care much for it, it is one of my least like books by RAH
Boy, I haven't read Heinlein in years, but I remember his books fondly for both their entertainment value and as a profound part of my "question-authority-and-doubt-received-wisdom" education. I first read STRANGER as a teenager when it came out in the early 60s. It was his declaration of personal independence and his proof that science fiction could be serious literature, and it was thrilling! If you think Bob was sexist, well, all I can say is, context is everything. He created strong female characters in a genre directed at adolescent males where such alien beings were nonexistent, and at a time that was more sexist and conformist than you could possibly believe unless you lived through it. As to the depth of his philosophy, I think "Thou art God" is still pretty potent. You grok?
Ali wrote: "This was the book that really opened my eyes to the problem of sexism in science fiction. The only thing that changed within me was a new sense of astonishment at how many people are willing to tu..."What did you think of Friday?
Keep in mind that I haven't opened any of these in at least a decade (I'm 62), but Friday was one of my favorites among his late books. Yes, she's something of a sex kitten, but the point of her quest is her discovery of who she is for herself. The other thing to take into account is that Heinlein was born in Missouri early in the 20th Century and his constant challenging of the prejudices he was brought up in is one of the most inspiring aspects of his work--even if he's unable to stretch to what we would consider PC. I think his adoration of, and profound respect for, his wife Virginia was the inspiration for his ongoing inquiry into the possibilities of womanhood, of which Friday is one example.
Does anyone ever come into these discussions, who reads a book for pleasure? I don't care, what Heinlein's view was on equality, or on religion. He wrote lively, interesting stories. If I don't like a book, it goes out with the garbage. As for Heinlein, I've worn his books out, but I've never thrown one out, until I got a replacement copy.
Exactly Kenneth, I only read for pleasure, especially when a book is older than 30 years I have to remember the time period it was written in.And I agree he wrote a great lively story here, and I was shocked at how much it affected me.
Bill, I really hated "Thou art God" the first time Michael uses it in the book, but by the end of the book the depth of it hit me, and I understood it for what it was. "Grok" too is such a great term it's stuck with me.
It has been so many decades since I read this book that I don't remember how I felt, just that I liked it. Guess it's time to read again.
Frank wrote: "After finishing this book, I felt quite odd. I absolutely loved the book, but it's been a couple weeks and I still feel "different". Maybe more content or something, but I've noticed I appear fri..."Frank I totally grok what you said. I felt it too. This book actually started me on the path to questioning all my basic belief systems till I arrived where I am now.
Bill wrote: "Keep in mind that I haven't opened any of these in at least a decade (I'm 62), but Friday was one of my favorites among his late books. Yes, she's something of a sex kitten, but the point of her qu..."Fair point, Kenneth! Over the years, whenever I've wanted a pure escape, Heinlein has been one of my go-to guys.
i too read it as a teen, now after reading these posts i'm wondering if in reading it again i would still feel that sense of peace and wonderment i felt so many years ago, or just wondeer what was i thinking
Are we still talking about STRANGER, Or Heinlein overall? I've lost track. I've always thought, that He wrote about women in a way that was bound to stir them up. I picture him sitting back in his chair, with a big grin on his face, waiting for the uproar. He liked to tease them, because he was skared of them. I know I am!
I've read this book man, many times and every time I find something new. I read it before it became a cultural icon in the 60s. When people started going around saying they "groked this and groked that" I just laughed, I had groked it when it was not "cool". And yes, it did change me in some way but I'm not sure how.
Dodie, I too, read this book, When you had to lock the door, and pull down the shades, to read a SciFi book or a pulp magazine called AMAZING STORIES. This book was right there, with the best. Next month, I'll probably read it again. I love SciFi.
Read this in the 70s, missed the sexism and homophobia entirely, and glowed for a long time after I finished it. Don't think I'll re-read it, though--I'm finding sexism and homophobia in enough places as an adult and don't need that former feeling of discovery to be overshadowed by my own analysis!
Although it has been a really long time since reading this book, Stranger held a concept that has stayed with me for many years. When trying to understand 'jokes' and 'humor', Smith supposes that humor is always at the expense of someone else. I don't agree entirely with that supposition, as I do think that someone can be funny without being hurtful or denigrating to another person. However, that thought stayed with me, informing many of my decisions in joke-telling or humorous observations. I became far more conscious of who might be hurt in the name of humor.
Robert Hienlien was a Naval Officer Becky. that would have had an effect on his sense of humor. Officers are not always gentlemen. I always thought, he gave his female characters fair treatment. Fave you read FRIDAY?
As a young hippioid this kindled a lifelong belief that if Jesus returned we'd just kill him again, we did the movie Teary Sockets a few years ago and included this as an essential plot point.
Michael was identified as the Arch Angel of the same name, Russell. If Jesus comes back, He will be wearing Kevlar.The human race, is to the earth, as Smallpox is to the human being. My personal opinion.
One of my all time favorites. I've read it, given copies away many times, recommended it, even read it aloud to my wife. I think how it hits you is based on where your 'deep self' is at the time you read it. I was grappling with concepts to which Michael put words. I didn't even have to completely agree with his words, to find it easier to develop my own.
Read it in my early 20s (early '90s), and the only thing that changed was my opinion of Heinlein—which took a severe beating.This and Cat Who Walks Through Walls cemented Heinlein as a deeply frustrating author, as I found both books to have a great first half mated to a horrible second half.
One of my favorite books, and a tie, for favorite sci-fi, with Asimov's "I, Robot."
I first read this in the late 60's, when I was about 20 or 21, and found it amazing. Many years later I learned that Heinlein was not regarded as "politically correct", but his book made me think and feel differently about a lot of things and it had a profound impression on me. I still re-read it every few years, along with "Glory Road", "Double Star", "Job" "The Door Into Summer", etc., etc. ("Starship Troopers" also gets a re-read, but not so much since I was unfortunate enough to see the film)
Bill wrote: "Boy, I haven't read Heinlein in years, but I remember his books fondly for both their entertainment value and as a profound part of my "question-authority-and-doubt-received-wisdom" education. I fi...""Thou Art God" and "Namaste" always seemed kinda similar to me.
Grok from Stranger in a Strange Land and TANSTAAFL fromThe Moon is a Harsh Mistress are still in my vocabulary.Stranger in a Strange Land was a pre-teen read for me (I guess early 70s?) and I had already been a Heinlein fan. I found a lot of it funny with him poking at so many conventions, starting with the laws on bastard-y, sexual mores, politicians, evangelists, etc. Sexist or not, Heinlein was big for me in having actually female characters playing a part in the storyline, frequently strong characters, and usually not all saintly or all wicked.
As an adult, this book and others by Heinlein still freaks me out as I see things like the uber churches (what locally we call the Six Flags Over Jesus) and some of the services some of them offer like advertising your business, health clubs, matchmaking services, etc. And politician speeches and attempted legislations that have sent a bad feeling up my spine thiking of some of the future-history timeline stuff with the Heinlein universe.
When I first caught Starship Troopers on tv, I didn't recognize it as Heinlein's book at all (there were some good parts and some good special effects but didn't track). I thought it just had same title.
Saw the tv show "Prophets of Science Fiction" recently , the Heinlein episode, that was interesting. I'd read in some forewords how he'd had some run-ins with the evangelism of the day; did not realize he lived so close to Cheyenne Mountain and in real life had a bunker (flashback to Farnham's Freehold), or his later involvement in the Star Wars defense think-tank.
Dodie wrote: "I've read this book man, many times and every time I find something new. I read it before it became a cultural icon in the 60s. When people started going around saying they "groked this and groke..."*smile* I was grokking when it wasn't cool too, answering "42" where possible, and I still have ... *gasp* a "Frodo Lives" button and some Hildenbrandt calendars from the first official USA LOTR books and fellowship fan club.
Deborah, I know what you mean about Starship Troopers. I liked the movie when I was younger, watched it recently after reading the book and was horrified at they somehow was able to get every single part and character wrong (with the exception of Instructor Zim). I've heard the director didn't even read the whole book, and I have to be honest that I can believe that.
Most of Heinlein's books can change the way you look at things. A Stranger in a Strange Land was the first book of his I read as part of my high school English teacher's recommendation. I have read several since.
When I ran across this book 40 years ago, I found myself questioning a great deal about myself. Many assumptions and beliefs were laid out on the cutting table. The following years involved a great deal of introspection, more under the guidance of Krishnamurti than Heinlein. To this day, "Thou art God" still has a ring of truth.
Frank wrote: "After finishing this book, I felt quite odd. I absolutely loved the book, but it's been a couple weeks and I still feel "different". Maybe more content or something, but I've noticed I appear fri..."Same here Frank, after all three times, first time at 7, second time at 18 and last time at 50. Each time makes the "feeling" stronger.
I loved this book. It was an interesting take on the whole savior complex that crops up in various sci-fi books. It was well done compared others I have read. I did feel a little changed when I read it. It re-enforced how society reacts to anything that threatens its current state off being. I'm actually going to buy a copy for niece. It did not change me in the way Heart of Darkness or the Dark Tower series did but it made an impact on me. Now if only all Young Adult fiction was this good. I think the world would be a better place if more kids read this and less read poorly pieced together schlock like Twilight.
I read it a long time ago...for Cultural Anthropology. I had to read it twice ( I jumped the gun) but how great, I got to read sci -fi for school. Our entire final exam was on the book. And the last question haunts me to this day, Was Michael Valentine Smith human? Its been 20 years since that class....and I still think about it.
I started my journey reading Heinlein juveniles at about 13 and moved on to his other books in my mid-teens. Read Stranger when I was 15 and reread it every year (along with many of his other books) for many years after. I kept finding things to think about: style, patterns of characterization, changes in his use of female characters... Funny, I never thought to place myself in the role of the female characters. I don't think he made it a requirement of his female readers to do so. Anybody could connect and find entertainment, thoughtful questioning or a cause in his writing.
I always thought of Heinlein's books falling broadly into 2 groups :~ 1/ Space Opera, cowboys in spacesuits & 2/ Mores serious Future Fiction.Re. the comments of sexism may be just a sign of the times in which it was written, as Friday and many others have female main characters, which at the time I was first reading them was definately unusual & hopefully this will stop some people just writting him off without giving him a chance (I bet most of us have change our views / the way we see the world through the course of our lives.)
Space Opera is more like E.E."Doc" Smith, or L. Ron Hubbard, Ralph I'm in my eighties, and i still enjoy pulling people's chains. To me Heinlein was the king of chain pullers. I still hope some one will find another unpublished Heinlein manuscript.
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I'm just curious if anyone else had a similar reaction.