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Typos - To forgive or not forgive
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Typos are very much a distraction. With the technology available now on all our computers, there should be very few. I used to correct freshmen essays for my work study on college, so I am used to reading critically. If the misspellings ate deliberate, as in the case of a character's type of dialect, that's one thing....careless typos ate quite another.
Yeah, the deliberate stuff doesn't bother me. I can even ignore the your vs you're or there vs they're kinda stuff because we all do that when we're typing fast and on a roll. What kills me are missing words.
I went the store for milk.
or
Did you ask him go with you?
Its the kind of stuff that you can easily overlook in your own writing but is sooo annoying when reading a novel that you want to get lost in.
;-)
(NOTE: I'm very aware that I've probably made 5 typos in this post so no need to correct me. LOL)
Yes typos are distracting, especially if there are a lot of them. A few are just par for the course. We're human and it's near impossible to catch every single one even with a professional editor. Simon, that's horrible! I can't even imagine.
Kris wrote: "Yeah, the deliberate stuff doesn't bother me. I can even ignore the your vs you're or there vs they're kinda stuff because we all do that when we're typing fast and on a roll. What kills me are m..."
Its funny you mention these missing words as these are the "small" words that we tend to skim over and still read just fine. I used to run a resume writing svc. and the style was to eliminate such "small" words like "the" and "and" and "also" to utilize valuable space on the page...but the sentences still had to make sense!
Simon wrote: "Sherri wrote: "Yes typos are distracting, especially if there are a lot of them. A few are just par for the course. We're human and it's near impossible to catch every single one even with a profes..."That truely sounds like a nightmare, Simon. Glad you eventually got it fixed.
Typos are definitely a distraction, whether it's in a self-published book or one by a big name publisher. I know that some are inevitable and like you, I can excuse it. However, it becomes a detriment if there are too many. A lot of this can be overcome by not hurrying to get your book published. Things become invisible to you when you stare at them all the time. Set the manuscript aside for 6-8 weeks and those typos will jump out at you.
One must take enough pride in one's work to ensure typos are nonexistent--or at least minimal. I will forgive a couple of typos, as even the most professional of big six publisher books sometimes contain them; however, numerous typos and editing phantoms are not forgivable.A book needs several pairs of eyes sifting through it in order to catch them all. Even then, multiple readings are a must. Self-published authors have a lot to prove. Publishing a manuscript containing multiple errors only decreases an Indy author's credibility.
Reading typos is my pet peeve, because, the way I see things, it reflects poorly on the writer's work ethic.Being in a rush is one thing, and we are all human, but to have many typos in a finished product is just not acceptable.
Heck, I even make sure my posts online are perfect before sending!
Leigh wrote: "One must take enough pride in one's work to ensure typos are nonexistent--or at least minimal. ..."I think that's key to my irritation Leigh. I know that things get overlooked and that being a good grammarian or typist is not equal to being a good storyteller. but take a little pride in the finished product and make it the best it can be. Too many mistakes will ruin the book for me. Usually it's more than mere typos. There are downright errors in spelling, grammar, punctuation, word usage, etc. Drives me nuts!
Kris wrote: "I read a ton of self-published books, and do the copy editing on several of them, and I have to say it's so hard for me to ignore typos when I'm reading.If they are scarce and the kind of thing..."
You are not the only one bothered by that. I was a copy editor for newspapers for roughly 10 years. One or two typos are not enough to register glaringly on my radar, unless those typos are in necessary information. If there are more than one or two, then I have a major problem.
I couldn't agree more: typos and/or grammatical errors can be jolting and interfere with enjoying a book that otherwise, may be flowing nicely. After I worked with editors to make certain my final MS was flawless, when I turned it over to the layout designers, new errors appeared in both the print layout, and the eBook conversion.
For nearly two months, I was receiving proofs of two separate editions; both contained quite a few utterly different errors. I was told this often results from "pouring" the text into "In Design" for the layout.
I thought I would lose my mind, finding new errors in every proof that came to me, after having corrected the previous ones. I can't be the only author this has happened to!
The perfect-bound edition still has a couple of errors (repeated words in one case), that need to be corrected before the second print run. Argggh!
Kris, typos drive me nuts (I did quite a rant on them in my blog: http://mjb-wordlovers.blogspot.com/20...), but they are very difficult to get rid of! I have gone over printouts of my books with a fine-toothed comb, even read one book one-word-at-a-time (very painstaking!) and still my brain insists of showing me what it thinks I want to see, not what's on the page. Believe me, it's not about rushing or scanning or being lazy. One thing I've just found recently, thanks to Smashwords' "nuke" process to strip out Word formatting for e-books, is that copying and pasting the entire book into Notepad, then copying and pasting that back into a new Word doc reveals errors not caught in earlier scans by the Word spelling and grammar checker. Who knew?? GREAT resource!
I have always been very harsh in issues of typo's, missing words, and the various errors that one runs across in books (old and new). (I find them in ALL books, not just self-published!) Having gone through the process with my own book, I must confess that, while I missed a lot myself, I found errors that were not in my galleys in the print version. I think it is crucial to do the very best possible, with as many sets of eyes as we can, to eliminate all errors. I also think it's essential to recognize that some will slip through, and that it's not always the writer's error. We are all human. I'm not nearly as critical as I used to be, even though I still notice them. Unless the errors make the text unreadable or impossible to understand, I'm much more forgiving than I used to be. Melissa, thanks for the tip-I never would have thought of that!
And one huge benefit of self-publishing is that whenever I do find typos that were missed earlier, I can always upload a new correct version of my book with very little downtime. Last time I asked a traditional publisher to correct some errors, they made me sign a contract that I would NEVER, EVER ask for any more changes. With POD, this should not even be an issue.
Uh, yeah, I'm very forgiving of the human element of making mistakes. Especially since I have never read a book, best seller included, that didn't have some mistakes.
If you can't get over it and enjoy a good book that the author has charged so little for, them stick with the best sellers who have the backing of a publisher.
If you can't get over it and enjoy a good book that the author has charged so little for, them stick with the best sellers who have the backing of a publisher.
I guesss I read so fast, I don't pick up on it.
Valerie, if you have your last galleys and can show that they were correct when you submitted them but the book was printed differently, you should be able to get them to correct those. There's no excuse for that. I had one publisher change something in one of my books without telling me (I found it in the galleys) and I immediately lost all trust. That's not good.
I'll overlook it if (a) it's not too bad, and (b) the plot is compelling enough. Otherwise I stop reading. And if I do read on, I'll try to make notes (via Kindle highlights) to let the author know after I've finished.
Kris says: "If they are scarce and the kind of thing that is easily overlooked, then I can generally ignore it. But, in some books it looks like they just slapped a cover on their first draft and sent it off to be printed."Same here. I don't review indies if there are too many typos and it looks like they uploaded their first draft without having anyone going through it.
English is not my mother tongue, so it adds to the confusion if words are misused (I can get pat "your" "you're", but having "shown" instead of "shone" is more confusing, know what I mean?), although I'm proficient enough to understand the sentence - after reading it twice. It's distracting, though, and takes out some excitement.
And there are cheaper editors out there, no need to spend thousands... And if you're lucky enough to have friends good with grammar, you might even ask your beta-readers to check your typos! :-)
Peggy wrote: "I guesss I read so fast, I don't pick up on it."Me too. I generally read way too fast to notice them. However, one of my favorite indie books, Casino Shuffle, had tons of mistakes. I reviewed the novel and almost gave it three stars, but I loved the plot so much I left it at four. I contacted the author and let him know what bothered me. He was very happy to hear the feedback. So much, he sent his next book of the series to an editor and said he'd proofread the current title one more time.
I agree that some grammar in indie books sucks, but I think some people use it as an excuse to rank an indie book lower. Because indie authors seem more "mortal", for lack of a better word, their readers feel more obligated to point out their flaws.
If a book has such poor draftsmanship that I'm distracted, I'll stop reading it and will never buy another piece from that author again, but I won't go out of my way to critique them unless the story had potential.
Kashif wrote: "If a book has such poor draftsmanship that I'm distracted, I'll stop reading it and will never buy another piece from that author again..."I agree that it's difficult to really get into a book if it has a lot of editorial or grammatical errors. Whenever I come across them, they kind of jar me out of the story a bit, but then I just continue on if the storyline itself is interesting.
I think that, as long as you consider an author's work to have potential, you might want to try later books by him or her. Hopefully, the mistakes made in the first book won't be repeated and the author will have improved on his or her writing by taking advantage of constructive criticism from readers. You might be missing out on a great gem by refusing to buy another book by the same author.
Just my two cents. :D
What a great discussion, thanks for bringing it up Kris. It seems as if my thoughts are in tune with the general consensus so far.
I overlook typos, spelling, errors in grammar and punctuation for the most part. I understand writing quickly and not stopping to fine tune. I also know a book is someone's hard work and I don't want to bash on it just because they made some mistakes along the way.
However, I have twice now mentioned these things in a review because it does interfere with the story when the reader (in this case myself) has to stop, go back, and re-read something to make sure they're understanding it correctly. It's a moment of "Wait. Did I read that wrong? Maybe I inadvertently skipped something."
I do agree that mistakes happen for both indie authors and the big bestsellers.
And I can't even imagine the frustration level for those of you who have had problems with formatting issues causing those mistakes. I think it's a brave thing what writers do, so hang in there!
I'm glad you gave it a four instead of three star, kristi. The number of stars I give a book is based entirely on whether I enjoyed the content, the plot etc. of a book. If I really enjoyed it and there were some gramatical error, I still give it five star. I think we all improve. What I object to is when someone buys one of my books for $0.99 and then takes the time to totally trash it. It was in the minority but one bad review with a one start can bring your ratings down.
If I buy an outfit at Wal Mart, I don't expect the designer who designed the outfit to be as good as say Michael Kors, but it's not going to cost as much as Michael Kors either. Maybe a few years down the line, the designer will improve with experience and be even better than Michael Kors. Do you get my point?
If I buy an outfit at Wal Mart, I don't expect the designer who designed the outfit to be as good as say Michael Kors, but it's not going to cost as much as Michael Kors either. Maybe a few years down the line, the designer will improve with experience and be even better than Michael Kors. Do you get my point?
Really? I just enjoy reading the book and I'm wondering if it's an approach to life in general. I don't try to find error in anything and if I do I chalk it up to being human. Mary Higgins Clark said that your books are like your children. You have to eventually send them out into the world hoping you did a good enough job. And yes, I've found mistakes in her books too, not that I was trying to find them. They show up more because you know an enormous amount of money went into getting that book out there.
An occasional typo can be forgiven but not the ignorance of spelling, grammar and good storytelling.
One weird mistake in one novel I read was that fact that a whole chapter was in the wrong place.The chapters weren't marked sequentially and all of a sudden the whole scene had changed.
Then the next three chapters went back to where we left off before the errant chapter, to take the story up to the misplaced chapter.
The novel - The Gum Thief by Douglas Copeland
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38...
I can deal with some typos and some grammatical errors. I am such the grammar Nazi that I realize not everyone knows all the grammar rules. If the story is good, then it is easier to overlook minor errors.I remember reading a story that discussed the female "heroin." Throughout the whole book instead of "heroine," it came up "heroin." In my mind I replaced it with the correct word.
The funny part of that story was the next book I picked up, the author mentioned taking several hits of "heroine."
Andrea wrote: "An occasional typo can be forgiven but not the ignorance of spelling, grammar and good storytelling."That's how I feel. Also some genres I think would be more forgiving than others.
I just got two free e-books, one a children's story and one a fantasy. Both have a lot of editing issues: commas in the wrong place, run on sentences, just generally weak grammar. The problem for a children's book is that children are in the process of being taught proper grammar at school (or at least I hope so). Having them read books that don't follow those rules are counter-productive. The problem for a fantasy book is that it's trying to use "fantasy" type language- a little more flowery, a little more old-fashioned, the kind you expect in an average epic. That atmosphere gets blown to smithereens when you get a run-on or "there" instead of "their" etc. In a realistic fiction I wouldn't mind it as much, but here I do.
I say this tongue and cheek, all of these rules of grammer are made by man, not God.
Barbara wrote: "I remember reading a story that discussed the female "heroin."The funny part of that story was the next book I picked up, the author mentioned taking several hits of "heroine." "
ha ha. That is funny Barbara.
A few typos sprinkled in, say, a 100K book will distract me from the reading experience (I'm an editor too, so they jump out at me) but I will excuse this. People (authors & editors) are human and some stuff can definitely get past us.However, a page riddled with typos, or typos every other line/paragraph will make me put the book down and not go back to it; furthermore, I'll tend to blacklist that author as well for not ensuring the work was up to par.
Am I too drastic?
In a later ms rewrite of DOASF, I had compressed the timeline somewhat. One of my beta readers pointed out to me that the protag had gone to sleep in September and woken up in October. He started calling him "Rip."Beta also discovered that he'd ordered a pastrami sandwich from the deli and gotten corned beef.
Pete wrote: "In a later ms rewrite of DOASF, I had compressed the timeline somewhat. One of my beta readers pointed out to me that the protag had gone to sleep in September and woken up in October. He started c..."LOL!!! Thanks for adding some humor to our discussion, Pete!
Zee wrote: "A few typos sprinkled in, say, a 100K book will distract me from the reading experience (I'm an editor too, so they jump out at me) but I will excuse this. People (authors & editors) are human and ..."Well, I do not think so. But I am a word snob.
LOL. You all have given me some great examples and I'm grateful I had good editors for my books (Full Disclosure: Kris does my final copy edits) But, I've definitely experienced things going wrong during the formatting process. It was painful but I had to order 3 or 4 printed proofs of my first book in order to feel comfortable that it was ready to be released to the public. Luckily I wasn't on a time constraint or I might not have been as diligent.
Well, I'm happy to hear that people are at least a little forgiving for the small stuff. Because I know I will never be 100% perfect, no matter how hard I try.
I recently read a blog post that the average published book contains 9 typos. I tried to research it later, but couldn't find where the alleged statistic came from, or if there's any truth to it. Nine sounds about right to me. My critique group went thru my thriller, The Assassins Club, very carefully, but I've still found 3 typos after it went up on Kindle. Fortunately, an e-book can easily be edited.
Lol Shelley! I am a word snob too, but depends on which day said book catches me :) Sometimes I am moe lenient
In so far as indie authors go I think you can forgive a few typos. Most indie authors like myself have done everything solo and even the most scrupulous of editing will still never be perfect.The key is knowing what the sentence was supposed to say,if that is clear than a to instead of a too is probably forgivable.
However I read a book last year published by Angry Robot, the story itself was fine but there were typos in every chapter. Given that a professional was probably paid to tidy the book up it was quite shocking and it really put me off the publishers as a possible place to send my book - oh look now I'm a snob as well - at least I'm in good company
Rachel wrote: "I'll overlook it if (a) it's not too bad, and (b) the plot is compelling enough. Otherwise I stop reading. And if I do read on, I'll try to make notes (via Kindle highlights) to let the author know..."?? you can do that? I've never heard of that...how does that work?
I don't mind the odd typo...no one is perfect and sometimes little things like "to" instead of "too" might get missed. But, what irks me is when an incorrect word keeps popping up throughout the book. Then, you know that it's not just a simple typo but a lack of understanding of the proper word to use in that particular context.
L.G. wrote: "review work and give an honest assessment …… I will never judge it."I think that's very, very well said L.G.
If they are scarce and the kind of thing that is easily overlooked, then I can generally ignore it. But, in some books it looks like they just slapped a cover on their first draft and sent it off to be printed.
Am I the only one frustrated by that? I know editors can be expensive and critical and all that but it seems like it makes more sense to just clean it up first than to have reviews that come back and say "I loved it but the typos were distracting".
What do you guys think? Are you more forgiving of typos in self-pub'd books? Or do you not even notice the mistakes in a book you love? I wonder if I'm just being critical?