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III. Goodreads Readers > Why don't more people read Self-published authors?

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message 1951: by Aidana (new)

Aidana WillowRaven (aidanawillowraven) | 58 comments Lynda wrote: "he said that as an indie author, he didn't have the funds for it"

I've heard this same rationalization for a bad book cover. They did it themselves because they are low on funds and would rather put it out NOW than invest in BOTH a good editor or good cover artist/designer.

What that tells me, as well as most readers, is that the book wasn't worth the investment on the author's part. So why would I as a reader, pay for a book and devote my time to read a poorly written book, when the book obviously wasn't that important to the author.


message 1952: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Lynda wrote: "Gisela wrote: "I saw a funny blurb yesterday:
"...Jane Doe* is a wildly successful erotic novelist living in a small town that is sexy and kind with a good heart...."

Ahh, those sexy small towns. ..."


LOL, Lynda, you are hysterical. I don't write "funny books" but if one if these days I come up with one you are my editor of choice.
Plus, you are 100% correct.

Thanks for presenting your thoughts so eloquently and funny.


message 1953: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Allow me to point toward a bigger problem.

There are hundreds of book marketing services who want to sell "all kinds of stuff (from Twitter promos to expensive marketing services)." Many of them are really Internet marketing services. Book marketing and Internet marketing are not the same.

The typical Internet marketing strategy is to create a surge of interest by offering “the product” for free or extremely reduced. In an ideal world, customers who acquired the free or extremely reduced product spread the word, which leads to follow-up sales.

However, books are not typical products; it takes time to read books.

So, in order to keep authors "hooked", till they are ready to spend "big bucks," these services offer all kinds of free tips, like "let's all beta-read and edit each others' work" or "let's review trade to boost our numbers."

If you are an indie author you just can't believe that stuff.

There are less than 1 million plumbers in the US who offer a service many people really need.

I am betting there are more than 1 million authors in the US who offer a product people don't necessarily need.

To succeed indie authors have to produce quality work, just like plumbers who apprentice, take courses, etc.

And, don't believe anybody who wants to make you a bestselling author for free.


message 1954: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments Aidana wrote: "I've heard this same rationalization for a bad book cover.

. . . What that tells me, as well as most readers, is that the book wasn't worth the investment on the author's part. So why would I as a reader, pay for a book and devote my time to read a poorly written book, when the book obviously wasn't that important to the author."


Gisela wrote: "There are less than 1 million plumbers in the US who offer a service many people really need.

I am betting there are more than 1 million authors in the US who offer a product people don't necessarily need.

To succeed indie authors have to produce quality work, just like plumbers who apprentice, take courses, etc. "


Oh, my goodness, yes. Yes, on all counts. If the author doesn't care enough to put every effort into the work, why should we pay good money for it? We would never think to hire a surgeon who took the medical school classes he/she enjoyed but skipped the boring ones, or who didn't finish med school because it took too long, was too expensive, etc. We wouldn't hire a plumber who didn't finish his apprenticeship because we're trusting (and hoping really, really hard) that he won't explode our toilets somehow.

And Gisela, I think I now have your next book idea . . . it's about a sexy young plumber in a sexy small town . . . you're welcome. ;)


message 1955: by Simi (last edited Aug 31, 2017 04:58PM) (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments I think there some people out there, who can read self-published books. I think if you have cover that doesn't look interesting or looks like it's been photo-shopped, you would think that this writer is not that professional. That's how I felt, when I came across a book cover that looks like it was Photo-shopped, and it was from a self-published author.

But if I find a book that sounds enticing, I would read it. I won't discriminate the book by its cover, as long as it sounds enticing to me. And I hope you guys would feel the same if found out about my book. :)


message 1956: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Lynda wrote: "Aidana wrote: "I've heard this same rationalization for a bad book cover.

. . . What that tells me, as well as most readers, is that the book wasn't worth the investment on the author's part. So ..."



LOL - Lynda,
I am a non fiction author. As such, I use a lot of practical examples and comparisons in my books. In one of my "practical" books about "how to get book reviews" I recommend:

"People, stop complaining!!! Give before you expect to receive!

Not only authors, many other professionals will benefit from reviews, too. For instance, tens of thousands of employees work for $8.50 per hour in the retail industry. These employees’ advancements may depend on your “review.”

So, start paying it forward! Ask these excellent employees if you can deposit a review on their company’s website.

Maybe, an opportunity arises, where you can mention that you are an author. If previously, you looked liked a generous "star-author" these employees may want to read your book.

Behave as if you were JK Rowling or Stephen King.
And, if you reviewed these employees work, maybe they'll review your work. This is how it works.


message 1957: by Jaime (new)

Jaime Olmos | 17 comments I am finding out Kindle is flooded with Erotica ....


message 1958: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments Gisela wrote: "People, stop complaining!!! Give before you expect to receive!"

Excellent advice.


message 1959: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments Jaime wrote: "I am finding out Kindle is flooded with Erotica ...."

I'm not sure that has anything to do with self-published or traditionally published works, though I would imagine self-pubbing erotica may sound like an easy way to make a dollar or two for some writers.

Thoughts on this, writer-people? I'm curious. My guess would be that Kindle is a good market for erotica because there is still a large segment of the population that feels the need to hide that type of reading, and may not feel comfortable purchasing a print book or getting one from the library. Maybe that's just conservative me speaking.

Is that getting off the self-pub topic, though?


message 1960: by Davida (new)

Davida Chazan (chocolatelady) | 94 comments Why don't I read more self-published authors?

1) Quality - so far, it hasn't been so good.
2) Rude - why are self-published authors so annoying? Some even have the chutzpah to ask me to buy their books. Furthermore, right now I'm not accepting new titles for review, which they'd know if they read my blog (see 4 below).
3) Quality - so far, it hasn't been so good.
4) Audience - if an author wants me to read their books, they should believe I'm their audience. To find that out, they really should look at my blog and see what types of books I read. I have made it perfectly clear that there are some genres that simply don't interest me, and yet, they don't care and they still try to push their work on me.
5) Quality - so far, it hasn't been so good.
6) Options - this refers to both the format of the book and the requests from the authors. Regarding the format, PDF files don't always convert well to my Kindle, and not all self-published authors have MOBI files available. Regarding the requests, authors should know that not all reviewers are interested in their books or have time to read their books (see above). They'd get more traction if they didn't just try to get us to read their books, but also gave us alternatives such as their writing a guest post for our blogs.


message 1961: by Davida (new)

Davida Chazan (chocolatelady) | 94 comments There is a difference between indie publishing and self-publishing. I have read quite a few marvelous indie published books. I have read almost no good quality self-published books.


message 1962: by Gisela (last edited Sep 01, 2017 05:58AM) (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Davida wrote: "There is a difference between indie publishing and self-publishing. I have read quite a few marvelous indie published books. I have read almost no good quality self-published books."

That's a nice and eloquent way to put it, Davida.

Here is my pet-peeve as a reviewer.
I turn down every single author who asks me to read "my (their) book.

It is such an unprofessional request. The comment shows that the author has not done anything to educate themselves professionally.

It's a self-publisher comment vs. an indie author request. Indie authors know that they compete in a tough market, self-publishers think the world is waiting for their book.

Most people cannot recite all of Hemingway's or Shakespeare's titles. So, how is anybody supposed to know what "my book" is?

"Could you please check out "my book" to see if you want to review it?"
is a way of saying, "Hey, YOU do the work. You need to find out that I am "the next Hemingway." I am not going to bother with explaining what my book is about."

Indie authors need to explain to "other/the public/reviewers" WHAT their book is all about & HOW readers will profit from reading it & HOW their book is different from others.

Sitting down with a piece of paper and jotting down these items is a good self-assessment. It's also a perfect rehearsal to practice what to say when the opportunity arises. When the moment comes, authors don't need to say, "Want to read my book?" but can "advertise it" properly.

I wrote a blog about this topic, it's called "What authors can learn from car salesmen" (on blogger)


message 1963: by Lynda (new)

Lynda Dietz | 354 comments I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

I tire of the "please read my book" posts, because—even though there are TONS of new books out there—I somehow manage to find well-written books by indie authors, based on recommendations. In fact, I had to add a "please don't ask me to read your book" section to my profile here.

I read reviews prior to purchasing anything, whether it's a book or an appliance, and I think I've learned to sift the facts that are important to me. I've read books I ended up not liking because of content, but the writing was good, so I couldn't give anything but a decent review. I've also read books I wanted to like, but had to leave a negative review due to writing/editing/formatting errors in abundance.

Gisela, I've read your blog (and have enjoyed many posts!) and realy liked the comparison to the car salesmen technique when authors are trying to promote. I think part of the learning process is stepping back and thinking, "What kind of impression would I have if someone said this to me?" and if it's not positive, then we shouldn't expect that anyone else will respond positively to us. For some reason, the things we find off-putting on the receiving end are often the same things we don't realize are off-putting when we dish it out.


message 1964: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments Lynda wrote: "I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

I tire of the "please read my..."


Very well said, Lynda.

Here is my collection of funniest requests with my comments in [...]

This should also be a warning for authors who hire book marketing services to get book reviews. Some of these book marketing services and publicists write idiotic emails (and they charge authors for writing such nonsense.)


11 Wacky Review Requests that Don't Work

Considering that every day about 4,500 books get published, phrasing review requests to known reviewers and bloggers is more important than ever. Here are parts of eleven request emails that made me wonder.

*1*

I understand you are a reliable, experienced reviewer.

[Really? Who told you that?...]

*2*

You’ve been handpicked as a qualified and highly esteemed reviewer to hopefully...

[Hand-picked? This wording sounds as if I had been selected for a dangerous clandestine operation... Thx, but no thanks...]

*3*

I wanted to drop you an email after coming across your thoughtful and sincere reviews on Amazon.

[Unspecific platitude! Flattery? ... If you want to score with this approach you have to be more specific.]

*4*

“... I’ve decided to go ahead and put together a review crew and would love to offer you first dibs at joining!...”

[First dibs? ? ? Apparently you are looking for YA reviewers. Sorry, I am a bit older...]

*5*

If you’re not interested in reviewing ... (genre)..., just let me know! I will make sure you don’t receive any review requests from us. By the way, sometimes e-mails get lost, so to make sure I know you’re not interested, feel free to fill this very brief form: ... It makes it a lot easier for me. :)

[Sorry! I don’t fill out any forms about things I don’t do...]

*6*

I noticed that you have reviewed a book in Amazon which the category is related to the book I have just published.

[Pleeease, take a few writing classes...]

*7*

My book is available right now on Amazon for only $0.99 for the Kindle version (will later raise to $7.99.)

[DON’T threaten me with a higher price...]

*8*

I would also be more than willing to send you my book as a gift so you don’t have to purchase it!

[Hmm... Come to think of it, I don’t HAVE TO purchase your book...]

*9*

You MUST post your review to Amazon and Goodreads. We’ll confirm your reviews and as long as you have posted them, you will be put on the list to receive the next upcoming release for review.

[Maybe you should read Amazon’s Reviewer Guidelines, again or for the first time...]

*10*

We’re looking for honest reviews from people who love books. Real reviews let other readers know what to expect. Our small company doesn’t have the same resources as the large publishing houses, so every review counts.

[As the marketing expert of your company, shouldn’t you know that your job is to make a case why a reviewer would want to read your author’s book, instead of explaining your business concept ...]

*11*

Our company specializes in helping the self-published and small print author maximize their marketing outreach to increase sales. As you know, book reviews are highly coveted when it comes to book marketing. We are committed to helping our authors succeed, and would love to elicit your help in doing so.

[BIG, big words!!! Did they teach you that in college? If I understand you correctly, you are charging your client for asking me to do your work for free. - What exactly is your specialty?]

*


message 1965: by T.L. (new)

T.L. Clark (tlcauthor) | 145 comments Gisela wrote: "Davida wrote: "There is a difference between indie publishing and self-publishing. I have read quite a few marvelous indie published books. I have read almost no good quality self-published books."..."

Ooh, I think I'm doing it right.

When submitting a book for review, I will mention where I saw the reviewer's name (usually on a long list of 'people who review your genre').

I supply title, word count, genre along with a brief synopsis.
I let the reviewer know which formats I can supply the book in, and ask if they would reply with their preference if they're interested in reading/reviewing it.

I don't assume just because someone reads the genre that they will want or have time to read my little book baby.
But I am ever so happy & grateful if they do.

Kudos to the book reviewers & bloggers.
You must get SO many requests. And you read LOADS.
Thank you (even to those who don't review mine, as there's authors out there who you kindly show support to) xx


message 1966: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments T.L. wrote: "Gisela wrote: "Davida wrote: "There is a difference between indie publishing and self-publishing. I have read quite a few marvelous indie published books. I have read almost no good quality self-pu..."

Hello T.L.,
thank you :))
Don't know if this was for Davida or me but 'thank-you' from me, right away.
Responses such as yours make me sooo happy. Yes, reviewing is a lot of work but I refuse to write bla or insufficient reviews. Either it's great or it has to wait. Online reviews are such a blessing, I try to aspire to the highest standards.
Thank you again and have a wonderful, long weekend,
Gisela


message 1967: by Vicky (new)

Vicky | 33 comments Going to back to the original question, I think lack of visibility is our major problem.

Indie authors, even those who spend money on good covers and good editors like I do, do not have the resources to print the quantity of books required to be purchased by a bookstore or large bulk store with a book section.

And no one here (that I noticed but I might have missed a comment) has taken into account that bookstores return the unsold books to the distributor/indie author after a period of 90 days. As an indie, I just can't afford to have 9000 books sitting in my garage.

Most of my sales comes from e-books and the print books I sell myself through word of mouth and library/service clubs talks and book festivals etc.


message 1968: by T.L. (new)

T.L. Clark (tlcauthor) | 145 comments Vicky wrote: "Going to back to the original question, I think lack of visibility is our major problem.

Indie authors, even those who spend money on good covers and good editors like I do, do not have the resou..."



Yeah, visibility is a problem.
It is nigh on impossible to get into the big bookstores (in the UK).
My own paperback was done with Createspace as a trial, but because it's not physically in stores it has sold just the one copy. :-/

ebooks are the preferred option for readers who do read indie authors, apparently. As they don't want to risk the larger investment on an uknown (their words, not mine, please don't start yelling at me).

But there are some very successful indie authors, it just takes a LOT of work and time.
After all, Beatrix Potter was technically self published and even EL James started out that way. :-)

And people are increasingly open to reading new authors.

We have hope!

xx

(and Gisela; the thank you was to all wonderful reviewers. I'm glad it helped you smile)


message 1969: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments Hooray! ^-^ So there'll be hope for all of us.


message 1970: by J.D. (new)

J.D. Hughes (jdhughes) | 46 comments Gisela wrote: "Lynda wrote: "I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

I tire of the "..."


Gisela wrote: "Lynda wrote: "I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

I tire of the "..."


Gisela wrote: "Lynda wrote: "I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

I tire of the "..."


Enjoyed your list, Gisela, it brightened a day otherwise dedicated to grass cutting and acquiring lower back problems.


message 1971: by Gisela (new)

Gisela Hausmann | 187 comments J.D. wrote: "Gisela wrote: "Lynda wrote: "I have never thought about the difference between indie publishing and self-publishing, but the way you two (Davida and Gisela) have explained it makes perfect sense.

..."


Thank you @J.D. Still I don't claim creativity, I see myself only as the curator of this list. What shocks me the most that even so called "professionals" write such nonsense. There may be indie authors who invest sour earned money into organizations who "do THAT"? Shocking


message 1972: by Jim (last edited Sep 03, 2017 09:37AM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments Regarding the "lack of visibility" comments: The adage "Unable to see the forest for the trees." applies.

There was a time, not very long ago, when the title published author could be claimed by only a few thousand living writers. The advent of the personal computer and self-publishing has resulted in hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of writers being able to legitimately claim the title.

The absence of gate keepers is often offered as the primary incentive by self-published authors as their reasoning to avoid the traditional route altogether. Perhaps the very reason self-published works are mocked or avoided altogether by many avid readers is the absence of the disparaged gate keepers whose job it is to critique and evaluate manuscripts submitted by novice writers and decide whether or not they should to be advanced to the next level within the traditional publishing apparatus or rejected immediately.


message 1973: by Diane (last edited Sep 03, 2017 10:02AM) (new)

Diane Meier (goodreadscomDEMeier) | 9 comments Regarding sale of indie books, I think the best advice I've seen is to write for a particular niche. That would fit the car salesman analogy - or the marketing of any product. People that create products without thinking a little about the market aren't going to sell much. That sounds awful in relation to books. But the hard fact is that just because an author thinks of a plot and characters doesn't mean that will appeal to other people.

One thing I decided early on is that I'm not going to beg for reviews. For one thing, I see reviews where people say they just love a book and then give it a four. It almost seems as if they begrudge the 5 stars. My thought is that I'd rather have an organic review than a 3 or 2 star review from a reviewer who likes to trash books. And I believe there are some folks who do enjoy doing that.

Also when people hand out PDF files of their book to reviewers, there's more of a chance it will end up online for free download. That's happened twice to me and I did not hand out PDF files. Since I paid my $35 for copyright, I can at least report it to google.

If royalties are your objective, get the copyright and then periodically search for your book and name on google and see what turns up. My royalties go to a nonprofit animal sanctuary, so I don't want to see them robbed by free downloads.

I read something by the smashwords people to the effect that there's no way to avoid that. But I disagree.


message 1974: by Marie (new)

Marie I hope I can post on this thread and hope it is not for authors only.

I have been reading all the posts on here and I would just like to say that being a reader, it doesn't bother me reading self published authors. I noticed someone mentioned on a post that "people are not going to delve 40 pages deep into amazon looking for books". Well not normal people, but I am not normal. lol

I literally spent near 2 hours one night going through 100 pages looking for horror authors. I did find some and if the books were in my price range then I did buy them. Also I overlook the editing as everyone makes mistakes and yes, maybe they should have done a better job of editing the book before they stuck it out there for everyone to see, but it doesn't deter me from reading their story.

I will read anything that pertains to my genre no matter if the author wrote one book or 50. It doesn't matter to me as like I have told a couple of author friends of mine awhile back that every author has to start somewhere. Even some of the most famous authors had to start at the bottom and work their way up.

I know there are readers out there that won't touch a book by a self published author or even an indy author and that the only authors they read are mainstream. I am not one of those readers. I also don't follow the crowd. I do my own thing and I decide based on the story of the author if I will like it.

Also I don't go by the covers of the book. There are many readers that go by cover art. I don't go by the cover. I go by the story as that is what it is all about anyway. The stories within the pages of plain covers are just as good as the stories within beautiful covers. The outside of the book doesn't make the story as it is the words inside. :)


message 1975: by [deleted user] (new)

Marie wrote: "I have been reading all the posts on here and I would just like to say that being a reader, it doesn't bother me reading self published authors."

Your words are very refreshing Marie! On the whole there is a distrust when it comes to self published work because there are those who flood the market with crappy books trying to make a quick buck.

Their books usually feature terrible grammar and half baked ideas and as such, many people simply steer clear of anyone who does not have an established reputation or a solid following.

It's sad but true. The great thing is that there are readers like yourself who are willing to give new authors a try!


message 1976: by Loretta (last edited Oct 22, 2017 10:08AM) (new)

Loretta (lorettalivingstone) | 134 comments Marie wrote: "I hope I can post on this thread and hope it is not for authors only.

I have been reading all the posts on here and I would just like to say that being a reader, it doesn't bother me reading self..."


Lol, Marie, I'm guessing absolutely no author will complain about your encouraging words here. It's always interesting to have reader feedback about indie books, but such positive views will cheer all the authors up.

I confess to have gone through pages and pages of Amazon books trying to find some that suited me. Glad I'm not the only one. And I will always take a chance on indie authors - since I am one myself, not to do so would be awfully hypocritical, haha.

Having said that, I have to have my interest caught by a good blurb. Then, and only then, will I download the sample. I can live with the odd mistake, but if the sample is littered with them, I won't go on to buy a copy.


message 1977: by M.K. (new)

M.K. Theodoratus (mktheodoratus) | 79 comments Think there's more than the traditional publishing machine blather about quality keeping people from buying indie books.

I'm sure there are many reader reasons for not buying ebooks--which most independent authors use. After looking at a screen "all day", I'm not about to look at another screen for relaxation. I rather pet the cat who got to my lap first.

Also, there's price which is always a consideration. Fewer and fewer people have spare cash. Still, I skim and check out interesting covers. Even buy a few if the blurb intrigues me.


message 1978: by Marie (new)

Marie Loretta wrote: "Marie wrote: "I hope I can post on this thread and hope it is not for authors only.

I have been reading all the posts on here and I would just like to say that being a reader, it doesn't bother m..."


The funny thing is I don't do samples! lol I figure if the book is "right up my alley so to speak" I will out right buy it. I have been doing that ever since I have had a kindle. I think of it like this too which I am sure many authors on here will understand, but what did everyone do before "samples" were available to readers to download?

We didn't have samples when we use to buy real books in the bookstore as we bought the book and took it home to read. I still even do that when it comes to buying the real books. I have a bookstore online that I buy from once in awhile and I have literally bought books of authors that I have never read. I guess I am kind of like a risk taker. lol :)


message 1979: by Marie (new)

Marie T.C. wrote: "Marie wrote: "I have been reading all the posts on here and I would just like to say that being a reader, it doesn't bother me reading self published authors."

Your words are very refreshing Marie..."


Well T.C., you are right, as I have come across some authors that the books are a little rough to get through with grammer errors and the like, but what I do is I just slosh through it the best I can and in my mind insert the word that is suppose to go in the sentence.

I just feel that some readers are very hard on authors to the point where they only give 1 star reviews for grammar errors. Sometimes I get upset with readers that give out harsh reviews because I think to myself what makes them so perfect. Lets see them write a novel without errors. (oh dear did I sound like I was ranting - sorry). :(


message 1980: by [deleted user] (new)

Marie wrote: "I just feel that some readers are very hard on authors to the point where they only give 1 star reviews for grammar errors..."

I really hate to see that. I've read so many wonderful books only to see harsh reviews that I believe are rooted in nitpicking.

It's important to look at the picture. If the story is interesting or the book is helpful, then a positive review should be given.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning faults but people judge any book that isn't perfect far too harshly.

Looks like I'm ranting too ;)


message 1981: by Alicia (last edited Oct 22, 2017 03:55PM) (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Marie wrote: "some readers are very hard on authors..."

Some authors don't keep very high standards, which makes it very hard for those of us who try to, when we attempt to get readers: we're all tarred by the same brush! A priori! With readers blaming us for things we've been very careful not to do.

It's enough to thoroughly discourage an indie with the intention of publishing novels about topics traditional publishers never get around to, and which everyone says 'we need more diversity' about. I'm not the only one.


message 1982: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments I think Amazon (and maybe Goodreads) don't accept reviews that are not constructive. So we can just delete a review that is harsh.

And hey, not all writers are perfect. I've seen best selling writers like Cassandra Claire have few mistakes on her book (seriously, I know).

As long as aour story plot is well-developed and juicy, and our story is polished, we'll be ok. :)


message 1983: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) Amazon accepts most reviews - it's up to the reviewers to decide what to write about, and many things that are not at all appropriate (in the sense of being about the book) nevertheless don't go against the Amazon terms.

Readers can view the reviews, and look for the kind they believe, so it's not bad even when they're not constructive. Some negative reviews are so bad they make people read the book.


message 1984: by Christine (last edited Oct 23, 2017 09:02AM) (new)

Christine Goodnough (christinev-g) Alicia wrote: "Readers can view the reviews and look for the kind they believe... Some negative reviews are so bad they make people read the book."

Guilty as charged, your Honor! I've picked up a few that way. But when I see consistent comments about a flaw I believe them. I've read through reviews after reading a book myself and agreed with those who mentioned certain flaws. So I'm not the only one with a negative opinion.

There are reviewers who, you can see, have given careful thought to their comment. there are others who dash off, "This is the worst drivel..." I've seen the odd reviewer, commenting on a book I thought was poorly done, "This is really a grate book! when I read it I just coldnt put it down until I was done." I concluded that reviewer would be quite easily satisfied.

Writing reviews, I try to be kind. I'm hoping my comments will encourage a writer as well as being an honest evaluation for a reader. If the book's well plotted & believable, I say so. If there are serious flaws, I note them, hoping this will encourage a writer to look at something she's not doing right. I don't note spelling errors unless there are oodles.

Honest reviews: Every writer thinks her book is great, and passes it to friends who also think her writing's great. We are biased. I don't give my books to reviewers who won't like my style. So you get a dozen reviewers saying, "Terrific, awesome story!" Someone who has no emotional commitment to the writer usually judges by quality and may say, "This story just doesn't work." This character is insipid, or incredible (in the negative sense.)" or "Plot hole here."

In one book a man was shot and left bleeding in the bar cooler. Somehow everybody forgot about him, cops included, and went back to the party going on in the bar. In my review I mentioned that you just can't leave dying people lying around like that! You say it because you want the author to get their act together by their next book. And also, it's honest, in your opinion, and that's what reviews are all about.

It's good to have, as Simi says, a juicy, polished story. Spelling mistakes aren't a determining factor in good or bad. One can't have a slaphappy attitude toward editing, but the problem that generates bad reviews is usually that our story isn't as well planned, juicy, and polished as we'd like to think.

If people avoid self-published authors, it's probably because they think no professional eyes have caught these flaws. Traditional publishers have certain standards, where SP authors write their own widely divergent standards.


message 1985: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments Well-said, Christine. ^-^


message 1986: by Theresa (new)

Theresa (theresa99) | 535 comments T.C. wrote: "Marie wrote: "I just feel that some readers are very hard on authors to the point where they only give 1 star reviews for grammar errors..."
I really hate to see that. I've read so many wonderful books only to see harsh reviews that I believe are rooted in nitpicking. ..."


I don't like giving 1 star reviews for grammar errors, but there's an occasional time I must. If you have a smattering of spelling and/or grammar errors, you have nothing to fear from me. However, if I can't even understand who is talking or what character's pov I'm in, we have a problem.


message 1987: by [deleted user] (new)

Theresa wrote: "if I can't even understand who is talking or what character's pov I'm in, we have a problem."

I agree. The most important thing that an author needs to do is communicate clearly. That in and of itself deserves some credit. I get baffled by the quantity and reasoning behind one star reviews.

But then again, I as a reader and author, appreciate the difficulty that comes with writing a book As such, something would have to be horribly wrong with the authors ability to communicate, for me to give a one star review.


message 1988: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments I'm sure that I make my writining more clearly, since I took some creative classes. Plus, I take editing more seriously and I have empathy towards readers who reads a person's work.

So my suggestion, for authors who are starting a new book, try to read and reread you work while understanding your readers' shoes, edit until you're satisfied, and have someone read your work before publishing it.

And, if you are an author who doesn't know how to plot a story, then brainstorm! Have the who, what, why, and how.

Hope these tips help. :)


message 1989: by Jim (last edited Oct 23, 2017 11:02AM) (new)

Jim Vuksic | 1227 comments There are numerous books and articles in literary periodicals, available in most public libraries, that contain detailed information and useful exercises that should be learned and then utilized by aspiring writers via practical applications.

There are also seminars, classes and formal presentations, featuring authors who have already achieved various levels of commercial success within the literary field, available at little or no cost. They explain in great detail the need for an aspiring author to learn and master basic writing skills such as correct spelling, grammar, punctuation and syntax prior to creating and self-publishing their first manuscript. The advantages to be had from the services of a qualified, experienced technical editor, conceptual editor and layout design artist are also emphasized.

The temptation to impatiently self-publish is natural. However; the rewards to be had from learning, practicing and then applying the necessary skillset prior to publication are well worth the personal investment of time, effort and money.


message 1990: by Christine (new)

Christine Goodnough (christinev-g) Simi wrote: "And hey, not all writers are perfect. I've seen best selling writers..have a few mistakes in their book."

As someone else said, Amazon posts pretty well all reviews. I've read some pretty harsh ones. And I don't start out with, "Because some other writer has mistakes, mine are okay, too." It's true. Perfection is hard to attain and we have to accept our little flaws --- but with e-books nowadays you can go into the file and make corrections.

And, re: the thread topic, I do buy self-published books a lot, but I've seen quite a few that could have stood an editor's advice. Sometimes it's a simple fix like: "Vary your sentence lengths more. Your paragraphs sounds like machine gun fire."


message 1991: by Theresa (new)

Theresa (theresa99) | 535 comments T.C. wrote: "But then again, I as a reader and author, appreciate the difficulty that comes with writing a book As such, something would have to be horribly wrong with the authors ability to communicate, for me to give a one star review..."

Sadly, I've seen one or two of those. The worst was that with a little re-reading and basic grammar know how (each character talks in a separate paragraph, quotation marks please!) those stories could be amazing.


message 1992: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments Christine wrote: "Simi wrote: "And hey, not all writers are perfect. I've seen best selling writers..have a few mistakes in their book."

As someone else said, Amazon posts pretty well all reviews. I've read some pr..."


Who knew. I try to make things perfect as possible. And how I learned to be a better writer was to read books. I feel like there are authors who don't read books. I have a friend who wants to be an author, but he doesn't read a lot books. I wasn't sure if it's possible or not. Though, he is pretty good. He just needs a lot of work.

Feel free to read my novel whenever you want. Reviews are welcome. :)


message 1993: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments You guys can check out my blog post, if they need help with writing. I tried to give as much as advice as possible for new writers, including self publishers. https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog...


message 1994: by Rachael (new)

Rachael Arsenault I think there's a few layers to the problem.

First, there's a stigma against self-published work as being low quality. While there certainly are self-published books that haven't seen an editor or feel "fanfic-y" (for lack of a better word) in their execution, that doesn't reflect the entire industry. Not to mention the fact that I've read plenty of traditionally published books that had atrocious editing, but those books and their publishers don't suffer the same dismissiveness or stigma as self-publishing.

Another issue is that some self-publishing is exclusively for ebooks, and not everyone is interested in digital copies of books.

Lastly, even if you do have physical copies of your book available, self-publishing can make marketing and distribution difficult because you're more likely to have to handle most or all of that work yourself. The less people you're able to reach with ads and physical copies, the fewer people read the book and the fewer reviews you receive. And if a book doesn't have many reviews, those who do come across it are less likely to buy it because there isn't enough information on how the book has been rated.


message 1995: by Jacob (new)

Jacob White (jacoblwhite) | 6 comments id just take one review at this point.


message 1996: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments Let's try not to lose hope when it comes to self-publishing. You just need to keep working hard on selling your books. Hey, find opportunities that will put your name out there. That's what I'm trying to do.

But more importantly, don't oversell yourself. I've seen self-publishers tweeting their posts about their books like 24/7. Don't do that; your followers will be annoyed to the point that they will have to mute or unfollow you.


message 1997: by Jacob (new)

Jacob White (jacoblwhite) | 6 comments Simi wrote: "Let's try not to lose hope when it comes to self-publishing. You just need to keep working hard on selling your books. Hey, find opportunities that will put your name out there. That's what I'm try..."

Much better way to look a it.


message 1998: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments Jacob wrote: "Simi wrote: "Let's try not to lose hope when it comes to self-publishing. You just need to keep working hard on selling your books. Hey, find opportunities that will put your name out there. That's..."

Thank you ^^ I really want keep myself positive. And I really want self-publishers to be positive for themselves, too.


message 1999: by Alicia (new)

Alicia Ehrhardt (aliciabutcherehrhardt) *Dr wrote: "Because there is no quality control in self-publishing. Sadly people ignore even good books that are self-published.
..."


There is no externally-applied quality control; there's plenty of quality control in the writers who know what they're doing.

There are great and necessary topics that publishers don't have room for in their catalogues - some of them make fascinating novels. Societal expectations of people in most traditionally-published books are stereotypical - have you noticed that most characters in books are young, healthy, and attractive?

And if there's something wrong with a character, he/she should hurry up, be inspirational, and either get better or vanish from the Earth conveniently. And the story should be only about whatever's wrong.

It gets tiring sometimes.


message 2000: by Simi (new)

Simi Sunny | 185 comments As much as I like to agree on the part with characters being attractive, but there has to be a character development. I mean, it's not just teenagers and young adults are going through changes, but older adults go through them as well.

I think a character needs to take time learning what's right and wrong. It's just my opinion.


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