Moby-Dick discussion
Weekly Discussions (Moby-Dick)
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Week 12: Chapter 130 to END!
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Sarah
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Jan 27, 2012 07:17AM
Ok, folks. Who made it?
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Me. I was surprised that the whale fight was the last two pages of the book.
I'm here. Back from New Bedford to celebrate -- although, as I posted elsewhere, I was in New Bedford on the single worst day of the year, a snowstorm so bad even the whaling museum was closed. Did get to see it and at least the outside of Father Mapple's chapel -- Seamen's Bethel -- which was a bit grander than I expected.At the end, after carefully focusing attention on the whale and Melville's discursions, I found myself disappointed to return to the people and terribly sympathetic to the whale, despite wanting Starbuck, Stubbs and Ishmael (who HAD to make it) to survive and knowing they wouldn't.
It was like rereading King Lear and hoping Cordelia would survive.
In retrospect, for a reread, I'd be really interesting in just how the extensive detail and poetry about whales and whaling, the attitudes influenced by Sartor Resartus (the mock philosophical-expert voice,) function to create the ultimate effect of Moby-Dick -- because they seem to be a very large part (most) of the story.
How this functions, whole and parts, seems of enormous interest.
Starbuck was Ahab's polar opposite. They had to go down together. I was sorry too.
My captain, my captain! -- Abe Lincoln, not Ahab, actually.Anyway, I've been here for a few weeks. You know, cleaning up the tavern for the "Welcome home!" party. Too bad so few sailors are here to tell their tales. But you only need ONE, after all.
That is correct especially one with a whale of a tale.
I made it and enjoyed the ride..er..sail. So glad I learned of this group as otherwise I doubt I ever would have read the book and it's definitely worth reading.I too was surprised that the ultimate conflict between Ahab and the whale was so brief and in the very final pages of the book, but I suppose there wasn't anything else to do or say after that except that brief postscript.
I really enjoy Bill's idea of re-reading a book and hoping it would end differently 'this' time. I've done that, too. Funny how the heart works.
It was almost like an afterthought. "Oh yes, I forgot to tell about the whale fight, or let's see who can last till the end." I am thinking more of the second ,due to Melville's sense of humor.
Kitty wrote: "It was almost like an afterthought. "Oh yes, I forgot to tell about the whale fight, or let's see who can last till the end." I am thinking more of the second ,due to Melville's sense of humor."I like that idea Kitty and I can see that having experienced his sense of humor now. I'm afraid the long wait for that climactic scene probably contributed to the novel's lack of success in its day.
I am sure it helped the process along..
I’ve read the books thrice with this reading; but even the first time I remember that the whole of my attention and “feeling” for this book kept concentrating in these last chapters. It is a real Apotheosis, THE BOOK is here. It’s as if we’ve been waiting for these lines these last two months, as if everything bended toward here as in a perspective study. The chase is furious; totally coinciding with what Fedallah foretold Ahab only 15 chapters ago. Not only Ahab but the whole crew is open eyes rushing towards death as if there’s no other alternative to the struggle with what will never be defeated because can never be understood. But to understand, to KNOW is the ultimate goal of human life, in itself different from all the other animals.I remember the first time I read it, these passage reminded me of the story of Ulisses as narrated by Dante, our most important and famous poet, in his Inferno: a man who wouldn’t stop where all the others did, because he wanted to know. And he made all his
ship mates fallow him to destruction.
Done! Wonderful voyage. Now I can say I didn't just see the movie! LOL. I really enjoyed Melville's narrative skills throughout. He has a talent for seeing the connection between disparate things. And I enjoy how he skillfully wove Greek and Roman mythology with Biblical allusions. I always love anything related to 'King Lear" and certainly it was no accident towards the end that Ahab sounded much like Lear!The two things that gave me pause during the reading was the already mentioned narrative switching between 1st person and 3rd person.(Certainly Ishmael couldn't have known what Ahab said to Starbuck in private.) The other was the handling of the Fedallah
crew. I think Melville built up a certain mystery about Fedallah, then left that plot cold and went on to several chapters of description.
Thanks to S and NewEngland for putting the Group together and to the crew members for their insightful comments!
Anyone pursuing more Melville in the near future? I want to read Israel Potter and Typee, then maybe to the more difficult "Confidence Man" and his long poem "Clarel."
And I want to read the Nathaniel Philbrick book on THIS book. I know that's backwards, but nevertheless....
I read that book NE, you can polish that off in two sittings! Worthwhile read though. that's the book that got me RE-INTERESTED in Melville!
On another subject, I'd be interested in this type of read of another daunting, lengthy classic in the future.
Let's see, War & Peace, Don Quixote, and I'm sure there are more that I've distantly considered reading. If there is ever a call for nominations I'll do some researching. Maybe Proust's Swann's Way (in part) or Ulysses, which I've always intended to read.So many big books out there that I haven't jumped into.
Don Quixote would be a good one, I re-read it every several years. War and Peace, Anna Karenina,Les Misearbles(sic) and Swann would all be good foreign language choices. I read Ulysses in my earlier twenties, and I have it on my "If a live to be a hundred" list to reread. Finnegan's Wake - forget it! A good book to peruse after a few drinks, but to read from cover to cover - only serious Joyce scholars would expend the time required. Two long, Not yet classics, but might become one someday books: Thomas Pynchon's "Mason & Dixon" and Don DeLillo's "UnderWorld." I read "Mason & Dixon" book once and was one of the best books I ever read! And I'm no Pynchon fan, it's a real departure for him. I bought "Underworld" but haven't read it yet.
I have Mason & Dixon on my shelf. found it at a yard sale and grabbed it at $1 but haven't read it yet though I know I want to. I'm glad to hear your report of it. Haven't ready any Pynchon.I read Anna Karenina last year and really liked it. I'm now half way through Brothers Karamazov but stopped it several months ago for other reading projects and never got back to it. I need to finish it.
Sue - Read the first sentence of M&D, if you're notimpressed, put the book down, or return it and get your $1 back! Or, search M&D on Goodreads and read some of the reviews, don't think there's a bad review in the bunch. I've read all of Pynchon up and including M&D with one asterisk - I got to page 476 in Gravity's Rainbow and ran out of steam. I hate when that happens it's like having a pea under your mattress - intend to go back and finish at some point. "Against the Day" is an even bigger Tome than M&D 1300-1400 pages, but I'm interested in how Pynchon handles the 1890's after hitting a Home run with the pre-revolutionary time!
I'm feeling the challenge Donald. Perhaps I'll try it later this year. I have several scheduled reads going in a few groups especially this spring but maybe I can plan to start it sometime this summer. You've whetted my appetite. (I really like the James Taylor/Mark Knopfler song that commemorates some of the story. Can't think of the title)
Sue, James Taylor/Mark Knopfler - don't these guys believe in retirement? I'll Google it and take a listen.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_...
I read Don Quixote last year on my own. I definitely would find it exhilarating to read with you all .
Donald wrote: "Sue, James Taylor/Mark Knopfler - don't these guys believe in retirement? I'll Google it and take a listen.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_..."
Yes..."Sailing to Philadelphia". I actually like all the experimentation in different styles that Knopfler is doing. I think his voice blended well with Taylor in this song.
Kitty wrote: "I read Don Quixote last year on my own. I definitely would find it exhilarating to read with you all ."
Sounds like we're may have a mini group started for next year. Judy, you and me so far.
I bought the Edith Grossman translation of Don Quixote during the I've read earlier translations up to around p. 150 -- MUCH further than earlier dalliances with Moby Dick.
There's of course a ton of translations out there. I started off with the Samuel Putnam translation. (He's the one that said that a person should read DQ 3 times in their life, youth, middle age and old age.) Next time I read it, I would like to get the Tobias Smollett translation. Smollett was of course a noted novelist and (Physician) in his own right in the 18th Century. I can't vouch for how reliable his translation is, I've even read that it is a bit of a hoax. Anyway it is still readily available at bookstores and Amazon. i currently have the Walter Starkie translation.Nabokov published a book of Lectures on DQ which I have. Although he called it "a crude book!" I can see how DQ was a precursor to "Pale Fire."
Ironic how the author of Lolita can call Don Quixote a "crude book." Of course, it depends on your definition of "crude."
I have the Grossman translation and it was wonderful. NE the humor and irony is priceless in the Don. I still chuckle over many of the passages.
My guess is that he means crudely put together. It's an episodic book and lacks the detailed structure of a Ulysses or Pale Fire.
Yes it does have a rough structure, but Grossman made it fairly simple to follow. I had tried other translations and got lost like Don Quixote, and wandered around in circles.
Oh. You should try Dante's Inferno. Very circular. Lots of wandering, too.
I have a copy of the Grossman translation too.Actually, NE, Dante's Inferno is another of those classics I want to read. I know I read excerpts while in college but not the full work.
Grossman's translation is a work of genius.I might be up for Cervantes or Dante next year.
Most immediately I'm leading a discussion on Brain Pain on Eliot's "The Waste Land" starting March 5 and following it with The Great Gatsby in the context of "The Waste Land" and to a lesser extent Conrad's "Heart of Darkness"
DQ is such a fun read that I don't think it's going to take much to keep everything on track.
Sounds good to me. I enjoyed the Moby Dick experience so much and I don't have the "white whale" baggage going into Don Quixote, if you know what I mean.
Sue - Haven't a clue what you mean by the "white whale" baggage. One thing I think may be interesting about reading DQ now is, we in the US are in about the same position as Cervantes' Spain was vis-a-vis our empires! DQ was written post-Armada, 1605 or thereabouts. Spain was able to live on fumes for quite a few years. The US is in almost the identical position of decline now as Spain had been then, but in our case there is such an incredible amount of bad karma that has been accumulated - Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Panama, Columbia, The Mideast, Granada - that our decline will be a lot more precipitous, like witnessing the "barbarians" sacking Rome! One possible advantage of being a "senior citizen" now is those in that group my not have to witness the Endgame!Another thing to remember about DQ - the last stages of the Inquisition were still active when Cervantes was writing DQ. In my earlier readings of DQ, I found this very interesting indeed! Kudos to Cervantes for being able to write successfully within such a straight-jacketted society!
My "white whale" baggage was the high school failed attempt to read the book and my further decision to never read it that this group helped me overcome.
Let's all go to
Starbucks
to celebrate. LOL
I am also grateful to the group for making me stick to my commitment!
I have enjoyed this group very much. I want to thank the moderators and the participants, for a most enjoyable and, informative discussion. The intimacy of the group, I think added to the enjoyment. I am looking forward to another book to read with you all.
I agree completely with S and Kitty. I'm looking forward to another group read with you all too.
All thanks to S., who did the nuts and bolts of thread-making, etc.
And repairing the sails, cleaning the whales, etc.
Everyone made the experience enjoyable. Thank you very much S for all the hard work. NE you were not slouching to Bethlehem either.
Greetings. Thought I'd mention for those whose interest was not limited to MD, but to Melville more generally, there is a Melville Goodreads group:http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1...
The moderator does respond and one or two other members, from my experience, however many threads are pretty much dead. There is some interesting archive threads - Hershel Parker, the Melville Biographer is still, I believe, a member of the group and has participated in this group.
Hi Donald, and company,I've lamented over the fact that the only other Melville group seems long dead. Instead of trying to resurrect it, I thought that perhaps creating a new group altogether might stimulate interest. For that reason, I've created a new Melville group. Please feel free to join, and to invite people that you know that might be able to add to the discussion. I'm hoping that, in addition to general discussions, perhaps we can get some group reads going on as well.
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/6...
Steve Sounds like a great idea, I'll be joining asap.
