Goodreads Librarians Group discussion
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Amazon is going away as a data source
Helen wrote: "1) The import from Ingram (never heard of them) will they have details that cove..."Ingram are the world's largest distributors of English-language books. They don't sell to consumers so if you aren't in the book trade in some way it is unlikely you would have heard of them. However, they have very few books that do not have distribution rights in the US, so are useless for UK editions. Also their catalogue of out-of-print books isn't very good. But for in-print US books, they are, to me, the best possible source of data.
Petra I know what you mean, if a book retains only an ISBN, you could probably google it and then add details. If it's completely blank, how would you know what book it is to miss?
Helen wrote: "Petra I know what you mean, if a book retains only an ISBN, you could probably google it and then add details. If it's completely blank, how would you know what book it is to miss?"I presume it would still have the internal book id, but what will that reference?
It would be very upsetting to find a load of ratings with Unknown Author, Unknown Title, Unknown ISBN.
Maria wrote: "Actually I'm kinda having fun with it :) If the functionality to see another user's books becomes available I might volunteer to help out :)"
I just spied a link down the bottom of my rescue page, which links to other people's rescue books! Here :)
Yup, I've seen that link too, S. Bell, and I've been busy working my way through it, but I'd love to see one per user (e.g. where I could enter a username and see which books that user are in risk of losing), rather than just all books lumped together.
Sara ♥ wrote: "Okay, maybe this is a dumb question, but can someone recommend a few good websites for English books? The audiobooks (my majority) are no big deal, because there are 2 main publishers and they hav..."I agree, an internet search does not work. The British Library is probably the best source for UK books.
http://www.bl.uk/
BTW, my books in need of rescue are being useful for checking the mistakes in the first imports. I didn't know I read in German :D Or I had the English edition of a book (I have the American one and I loathe this cover ;) ) Anyway, after I switch my review to the proper book, the original books is still in my list, it is not refreshed.
Wow, I'm down to 49 books! All but one in the "may be merged" category. That's a nice change from the initial list.
I just spied a link down the bottom of my rescue page, which links to other people's rescue books! Here :) I only see 34 books on that link. Either the problem is solved or safari is pulling my leg.
Mayakda wrote: "I just spied a link down the bottom of my rescue page, which links to other people's rescue books! Here :) I only see 34 books on that link. Either the problem is solved or safari is pulling my ..."
In an earlier post, it was explained that the list is small and randomized to help prevent lots of librarians attempting to rescue the same book. You can refresh the page to generate a new list.
I believe they give a few at a time, but once some are cleared you can click on the link again and it will list more. At least that's what it did for me yesterday.
Aaron wrote: "What's the policy on cover images obtained from amazon? I didn't see anything about this in the warning. Would it be acceptable to add an image from amazon, if the cover is exactly the same as one ..."Yes, you can. Last time I check, cover images belongs legally to the publishers and not to Amazon. This thread will be helpful for you: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
D wrote: "I believe they give a few at a time, but once some are cleared you can click on the link again and it will list more. At least that's what it did for me yesterday."I missed that post, sorry. But refreshing it (or clicking the button that says View More At Risk Books) gives me the same exact list.
I don't want to complain though since obviously the staff is busy.
Just noting it as feedback for the randomizing algo.
I clicked on it I think two or three times and then it gave me a new list. I think it needs to be 'pursuaded' to give you a new list :)
Mod
As for the technical details about what the blank books will look like, I haven't been involved in that end of things so I don't know. I suspect one of the developers would have to answer that.
rivka wrote: "As for the technical details about what the blank books will look like, I haven't been involved in that end of things so I don't know. I suspect one of the developers would have to answer that."I hope one does soon!
I have what might be a silly question. What happens to books that have not been shelved on anyone's bookshelves and are not part of the data import? Do the titles just disappear after Jan 30th? I'm asking because I know that there are a lot of German books in that position.
Mod
Good point, Rivka. I don't see this current situation, or immediate source of data, being the end of it. From what I'm reading, GR will continue to seek and identify and many sources.
If Amazon is going away does that mean that all those items marked as NOT A BOOK can finally be deleted?
Mod
We have a plan for those.
I've spent about 6 hours checking my books. So many I never added that are at risk, so many added for correct covers rather than isbn. I hate that new covers get the same ISBN no - that's my big rant! i remember books by cover so it doesn't help me.
I'm sorry that I'm new to this, and am asking such a basic question: But, on January 30, books on our bookshelves have the potential of "going away" if GR can't find a reliable, non-Amazon source for the listing. What will this look like for the typical GR user on February 1? Will there be "empty" entries on bookshelves, with no title and no way to figure out what had been shelved there the day before? Or will the books just vanish, and people will wake up with less books shelved than the day before. Some of the books on my rescue list are at my local library, some are in storage (especially the German lang. kids' books), and some are e-books. So, I need time to rescue these, but I can manage.
What will the "uninformed" GR user see on February 1?
What will the "uninformed" GR user see on February 1?
Question about "may be merged" editions: if these editions are merged, will this be like the existing merge that librarians do on duplicate editions, where the original is completely deleted, there's no record of its unique values, and people's reviews are permanently shifted onto the kept edition? Or will this be some sort of conditional merge where if data is imported later for the merged edition it will be restored on people's shelves the way the "may be deleted" editions could be?
Jeannette wrote: "I'm sorry that I'm new to this, and am asking such a basic question: But, on January 30, books on our bookshelves have the potential of "going away" if GR can't find a reliable, non-Amazon source ..."I have a feeling that for many uninformed GR users, it will be a rude awakening if they suddenly have a bunch of empty shelves or "books" shelved with no title/author etc. I know if I suddenly ended up with hundreds of books like that, I would be seriously worried and more than a bit angry. I think that no matter what, the titles of all books should be kept, otherwise there will likely be many, many GR members with books shelved that have no titles (and I know I would not remember those missing titles).
This seems to have potential to be a huge mess. Couldn't all the "unreliable" books just be marked that way? Is amazon demanding that GR remove any/all data obtained from the site?
Once the titles go away, then the book is gone forever. What does it matter if I have a spot on my tbr shelf, if I can't see the book that is supposed to be there?
Once the titles go away, then the book is gone forever. What does it matter if I have a spot on my tbr shelf, if I can't see the book that is supposed to be there?
Gundula, I think that even GR agrees that that is what "should" happen, but as far as I've understood they could get into serious trouble with Amazon if they do so...Petra, perhaps they've been allowed to keep an internal table to cross-reference internal ids with ISBN? That's my guess at least.
Jeannette wrote: "Is amazon demanding that GR remove any/all data obtained from the site?"Unfortunately, yes.
I don't see why the title has to be removed.
I'm a lightweight at 1600 books, and I only had 80 on my recuse list (unless that's only a sample). I hope they back things up before they roll in these changes.
I'm a lightweight at 1600 books, and I only had 80 on my recuse list (unless that's only a sample). I hope they back things up before they roll in these changes.
Jeannette wrote: "I don't see why the title has to be removed."Apparently, such are the demands that Amazon has put on Goodreads. At least, that's what I gather from the mods' posts in this thread. I don't get it either, but I'm afraid this is a situation where "might makes right"... and Amazon has the might...
Maria wrote: "Gundula, I think that even GR agrees that that is what "should" happen, but as far as I've understood they could get into serious trouble with Amazon if they do so...Petra, perhaps they've been a..."
I know one thing, if I end up with huge amounts of books with no titles, I will be very angry mostly with Amazon (because I know the situation), but also a bit with Goodreads. And for GR members who are not aware of the situation with Amazon (and there will likely be a huge amount members in that situation), I am sure that they will be very, very angry with Goodreads and only Goodreads if they suddenly have lots of books with no titles etc. on their bookshelves (especially with to-read books or books that people have only rated and not reviewed).
Weird, indeed. I guess I'll have to go back through the 700 posts to get the big picture. :(
So, what's to stop people from re-adding books? Will we have to provide a non-amazon source to re-add, like we do for a book rescue?
I hope the new source for book info is all-encompassing, and this won't be a fiasco.
So, what's to stop people from re-adding books? Will we have to provide a non-amazon source to re-add, like we do for a book rescue?
I hope the new source for book info is all-encompassing, and this won't be a fiasco.
Gundula -- would you send me a PM with a summary of what's going on with amazon? :)
Basically, get your book off the shelf, put in the isbn, hit the rescue button and fill ou the boxes. I've had 100s that were not on my list. So far, I've put in about 10 hours sorting the books I own. I have started encountering books already rescued.
Jeannette wrote: "Gundula -- would you send me a PM with a summary of what's going on with amazon? :)"Sure, though I only know what I have gleaned from the information in this thread (the messages from GR staff).
Would it not make sense to send an email or update to all authors instead of burying this info in a post? I just happened to see the "please rescue this book" on one of my titles. Had I not logged in and happen to click on that particular title, it would have been lost. This is a BIG change so better publicity please.
I agree Eva. The entire community needs to know about this, after the final data is in place and before the titles get removed.
Helen wrote: "Basically, get your book off the shelf, put in the isbn, hit the rescue button and fill ou the boxes. I've had 100s that were not on my list. So far, I've put in about 10 hours sorting the books I ..."
What happens if a book on my tbr shelf disappears? I mark a lot of books that I don't necessarily own (I think everybody does). Once the title is gone from the GR database, I have to go to my "saved" file and reconstruct the lost titles (at least this is what I am assuming here. I'm still not 100% up to speed on this.)
What happens if a book on my tbr shelf disappears? I mark a lot of books that I don't necessarily own (I think everybody does). Once the title is gone from the GR database, I have to go to my "saved" file and reconstruct the lost titles (at least this is what I am assuming here. I'm still not 100% up to speed on this.)
Gundula wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Gundula -- would you send me a PM with a summary of what's going on with amazon? :)"
Sure, though I only know what I have gleaned from the information in this thread (the messag..."
I'm just being lazy -- 700 messages to go through, and books to rescue. Send me a PM only if you have more free time than I do! ;)
Sure, though I only know what I have gleaned from the information in this thread (the messag..."
I'm just being lazy -- 700 messages to go through, and books to rescue. Send me a PM only if you have more free time than I do! ;)
Jeannette wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Jeannette wrote: "Gundula -- would you send me a PM with a summary of what's going on with amazon? :)"Sure, though I only know what I have gleaned from the information in this th..."
I just did :-)
I think we need a separate thread, specifically a FAQs one since we're getting newcomers and people asking the same questions that's been answered like a hundred times. Having all of this issue isolated into one thread is not productive, imo.
A FAQ thread that is closed to comments would be nice.
Mod
While you're at it, Rivka, you might suggest to Otis a site-wide announcement later this week (Thursday?) so that everyone, including those not subscribed to the librarian group, knows what has happened to GR. Perhaps by then you'll be pretty well versed on whatever consequences Amazon has wreaked on GR.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "While you're at it, Rivka, you might suggest to Otis a site-wide announcement later this week (Thursday?) so that everyone, including those not subscribed to the librarian group, knows what has hap..."and it would be helpful to explain why this is happening
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "While you're at it, Rivka, you might suggest to Otis a site-wide announcement later this week (Thursday?) so that everyone, including those not subscribed to the librarian group, knows what has hap..."That would be a very good idea. At least people would then not be able to say that they did not know about this.
Carolyn wrote: "Mayanka, can you give us a timeframe for when the librarian attributed edits 'update' will be complete?I've got over 700 books on my Rescue Me shelf, and I've done thousands of edits. I figure I'..."
Carolyn, as indicated in another thread (http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...), the librarian edits 'update' is (mostly) complete now. You should probably go ahead.
There are a few more books that need to be reprocessed because my script skipped their edits, but it shouldn't be a huge number of books affected.
If any of you don't know what I'm referring to, you can read the other thread, or you can just get back to rescuing your books. A few librarians were waiting for this script to complete in case it ended up rescuing a few of the books they would've otherwise been rescuing.
Thanks everyone for all your help so far! :)
Question/suggestion....For books not covered by the database import and not rescued by a librarian, will they maintain the same Book ID once the rest of the book's data is removed??If so, then that would be a good way to identify a book on your shelf with no title or author listed. If a member exports their books, then the export file can be used later as a reference. To my knowledge, all books have a unique Goodreads book ID. Search for the ID # in the file and then a user will be able to see what title and author used to be attached to it. I hope that made sense! Would this work??
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "While you're at it, Rivka, you might suggest to Otis a site-wide announcement later this week (Thursday?) so that everyone, including those not subscribed to the librarian group, knows what has hap..."I agree. You're going to have a lot of people very angry with Goodreads (and for good reason too!) if this isn't made public in a proper way.
I can understand why GR hasn't told the general public yet (mass panic before the 14mill load has even completed), but I'd find it very, very reprehensible behaviour indeed if no announcement is made later this week.
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I know you said that my reviews wouldn't be deleted, but what happens if I reviewed a book and it doesn't get rescued?
First, let me repeat, your reviews and ratings rea..."
It doesn't address my issue. If a book that has only a rating and no review cannot be found on the imported databases, it is going to be without title and author, 'temporarily'. That could turn into permanently if there is no source for it which may be likely for an old book with only one rating. How will I know, without title or author, which book is which?