Middlemarch 02: Chapters 6-11

[Loretta]

Please discuss this section below.

[Liz]

What does everyone think of the new characters introduced in this section?

I was amused by Mrs Cadwallader. Growing up in a very small town, I drew parallels to those in my town who share her gossipy nature. Reminds me of everyone sitting around in the beauty shop, talking about everyone else in the town.

I was immediately drawn to Ladislaw. He seems quite the opposite of old fuddy-duddy Casaubon. I hope we see more of him.

[Juliette]

I was hoping to see more of Ladislaw too, but then he left.

I'm also a bit concerned for Dodo and her marriage, it does not seem her husband shares her affection.

[Sera]

I found that my initial impression of Dodo as an independent, sharp thinking woman was way off considering how much she caters to Casaubon after they get together. I felt badly for her and couldn't help thinking whether she had "daddy" issues? Or, is it that she feels comfortable with someone who is as repressed as she is?

[Shea]

Dorothea was terribly annoying to me in this section. I am irritated by the way she acts around Casaubon. When she offers to learn to read Greek or Latin just to be helpful but fears she will be wearisome and then rejoices in his "permission" I wanted to scream at her.


In this section it is definitely clear that Casaubon does not have strong feelings for Dodo and is marrying her so that he has someone to take care of him as he ages. She is tolerable to him so she was chosen. I like him even less after this section as well.

Sir James continues to grow in my esteem especially after these passages "Sir James felt with some sadness that she was to have perfect liberty of misjudgement. It was a sign of his good disposition that he did not slacken at all in his intention of carrying out Dorothea's design of the cottages" and "pride only helps us to be generous; it never makes us so." I think he sees the writing on the wall as far as Dorothea's future happiness even if she cannot.

[Everyman]

Liz Vegas wrote: "What does everyone think of the new characters introduced in this section?

I was amused by Mrs Cadwallader. "

Mrs. Cadwallader is a delight. I can only imagine how much fun Eliot had writing her character.

[Everyman]

Juliette wrote: "I'm also a bit concerned for Dodo and her marriage, it does not seem her husband shares her affection. "

Did he marry for affection? Or did he marry for some other purposes, and if so what?

I have my thoughts, but want to hear others first!

[Everyman]

I'm delighted by the passage in Book 6:

"Mr. Brooke again winced inwardly, for Dorothea's engagement had no sooner been decided, than he had thought of Mrs. Cadwallader's prospective taunts. It might have been easy for ignorant observers to say, " Quarrel with Mrs. Cadwallader;" but where is a country gentleman to go who quarrels with his oldest neighbors? Who could taste the fine flavor in the name of Brooke if it were delivered casually, like wine without a seal? Certainly a man can only be cosmopolitan up to a certain point. "

As one who grew up in a small community, lived for awhile in cities, and am now back in a very small town, I know exactly what Eliot is saying. This is, after all, a story of Provincial Life, and this is a perfect example of what one must accept to live comfortably in a small town.

[Denise]

I liked Mrs. Cadwallader also...

And I think Dorothea feels by marrying Casaubon she is improving herself because she thinks she will be his "partner" on some level, but really I think most of her time in Rome she is going to be ignored and miserable.

[Nina]

Denise wrote: "And I think Dorothea feels by marrying Casaubon she is improving herself because she thinks she will be his "partner" on some level, but really I think most of her..."

I agree. I think she thinks that Casaubon sees her as more than just a "silly wife", she feels that Casaubon will help her to achieve something because he respects her intelligence. I can understand her need to be more than a silly wife who only cares about clothes and dinner parties, but I am not sure marrying Casaubon is the right way to go.

[Juliette]

Everyman wrote: "Did he marry for affection? Or did he marry for some other purposes, and if so what? ..."

So far it seems he married her because he wanted a cheap and easy caretaker, though I do feel he thought he would get excited as the wedding date got closer, but Dodo's simpering pleasing way is probably a turn off.

[Bookworm Adventure Girl]

The conversation about why characters marry reminds me a bit of Vanity Fair. There seems to be similar relationships and perhaps its the sign of the times. I was wondering if Eliot did as Thackeray did which is release each book separately which would sometimes leave the reader hanging. If so, it changes how I read each section.

[Sera]

Juliette wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Did he marry for affection? Or did he marry for some other purposes, and if so what? ..."

So far it seems he married her because he wanted a cheap and easy caretaker, though I do..."

Juliette, you make a good point. If I as a reader was turned off by what seemed to be initially an independent, educated and strong-willed woman who then became this whiny, co-dependent and over pleasing wife, then I can imagine how Casaubon felt.

Did marriage change Dodo or was she always like that?

[Becky]

I don't think that the marriage changed Dodo, I think her actions towards Causaban are an extension of her personality. It states in the beginning that she could be strong-willed with her Uncle, and that he frusterated her with his lack of doing. Yet, towards Causaban she is meek. I think it is because she sees her marriage as an act of religious devotion, and the more subservient and helpful to her "oh-so-notable" husband, the more pious she is.

HOWEVER, I dont think that she does all these things to bring glory to God, but so that she can be seen as respectable and worthy. She wants to be worth something, and recognized for it, and I believe she uses religion as that means.

Some quotes that I feel illustrate this point

"How can one ever do anything nobly Christian, living among people with such petty thoughts?"

""She felt some disappointment, of which she was yet ashamed, that there was nothing for her to do in Lowick; and in the next few minutes her mind had glanced over the possibility, which she would have preferred, of finding that her home would be in a parish which had a larger share of the world's misery, so that she might have had more active duties in it."

" --- At least at this she had the good sense to be ashamed. She doesn't care about the suffering, she cares about being the one to fix it.

Perhaps these impressions will change over time, I don't know. I really feel Dodo and Causabon deserve each other.

[Sera]

Becky wrote: "I don't think that the marriage changed Dodo, I think her actions towards Causaban are an extension of her personality. It states in the beginning that she could be strong-willed with her Uncle, an..."

Well-supported points, Becky, of the notion that Dodo is trying to do something a grand scale, even though it may be cloaked behind religion. I'm wondering whether her gender is what's limiting her to do so, which is why she feels compelled to go through her husband instead.

I am really enjoying reading everyone's comments, which have given me much to think about that I wouldn't have otherwise. This is one of the reasons that I love this group so much.

[Becky]

Oh I would definitly say its because she feels gender limited. The 1860's were a HUGE time of social upheaval. Dodo seems to stick rigidly to the past (she reminds me of what we referred to in Art class as ECVMs Early Christian Virgin Martyrs) whereas Celia seems very much in the present. I think even if a different opportunity were presented to Dodo for self-realization, she would look at it with disdain. Maybe this marriage will wake her up to her silliness.

I think we will begin to see that more of the social change in this book, especially in the case of the young doctor with "methods." These people are still talking about the humors and having a particuar consititution, meanwhile in urban centers, there was beginning a scientific revolution. The book takes place on the cusp of the dawn of the modern world, but things happen at a slower pace provincially.

[Juliette]

Becky wrote: "HOWEVER, I dont think that she does all these things to bring glory to God, but so that she can be seen as respectable and worthy. She wants to be worth something, and recognized for it, and I believe she uses religion as that means..."

Well put.

[Glynis]

On reading about Dodo's disappointment during her tour of Lowick, I thought, surely it's a good thing that there are no destitute people there! I could sense her panic at the thought of being Casaubon's wife alone, not that he would have supported her had there been needy folk in Lowick to satisfy her philanthropic ambitions.

I sense and hope for a bit of frustrated flirting with the more carefree, seemingly hedonistic, arty and younger Ladislaw. He seems quite taken by Dodo:

"But what a voice! it was like the voice of a soul that had once lived in an Aeolian harp".

I liked that. But I imagine him the sort of unreliable handsome devil to break hearts.

It's funny to think this is set in the West Mids, not far from where I live. I can't help but picture the funny accent of the locals and the landscape of it has sadly changed somewhat since Eliot's day.

[Glynis]

oops it's not the Tipton I was thinking of! But I do believe Tipton Grange is based on a village/town near Coventry in the Midlands.

Silly me ;-)

[Glynis]

I think Dodo will be as miserable as Milton's daughters were when reading to their father. Milton was blind so I think a comparison to Casaubon and his failing eyesight is being made here; namely that Dorothea will not enjoy being his submissive wife, reading to him in an attempt to access the male intellectual world denied to women. She is an independent woman, too idealistic and lacking in self knowledge. Trying too hard to prove herself as different from women in general, denying her true self to shine through in the process. She is certainly repressed as a reader mentioned in a previous comment.

[Everyman]

Glynis wrote: "I think Dodo will be as miserable as Milton's daughters were when reading to their father. Milton was blind so I think a comparison to Casaubon and his failing eyesight is being made here; namely t..."

Good point. Though I think perhaps Dorothea would have been happier as a Milton's daughter than as a Casaubon's wife, because, after all, Casaubon is no Milton, though I'm not sure Dorothea realizes that yet.

[Izzy]

Juliette wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Did he marry for affection? Or did he marry for some other purposes, and if so what? ..."

So far it seems he married her because he wanted a cheap and easy caretaker, though I do..."

I agree but he did seem to expect to feel more passion and I think has decided that Dodo is the only chance he will have of marriage. I'd be interested to see as the book progresses whether he meets someone he would have been more suited to.

[Bookworm Adventure Girl]

Izzy wrote: "Juliette wrote: "Everyman wrote: "Did he marry for affection? Or did he marry for some other purposes, and if so what? ..."

So far it seems he married her because he wanted a cheap and easy caret..."

I agree. It seems like he is settling to me. I imagine him with his hands up in the air just seeing where the chips fall. This probably still happens in some marriages, but I find it very sad.

[Becky]

I think he finds her tolerable, but wanted more enthusiasm on her part, which is ironic and very descriptive of his character.

I think that we will find he isnt very up to speed with anything that he does.

[Amanda]

I tend to agree with the comments here. Dorethea and her husband seem to have very different expectations in marriage and different ideals of Christianity. It seems as though Dorethea is only just beginning to realise that all it's not as she had hoped for, but as Casaubon is not as emotionally invested in the relationship, he is the one who is likely to fare better out of the failure of the marriage.

[Andrea]

I just finished the forth section and I went to post my notes on this section and realized that they are not saved. Errrr

Reading through the comments of everyone else I was able to easily remember most of what I was thinking when I was reading this section and I agree that there is a huge discrepancy between Dorothy and Casaubon's idea of what their marriage is to be. I am wondering how long it will take before all of this dawns on Dodo and she realizes she made a mistake in not listening to her family.

[Alana]

Becky wrote: "I think we will begin to see that more of the social change in this book, especially in the case of the young doctor with "methods." These people are still talking about the humors and having a particuar consititution, meanwhile in urban centers, there was beginning a scientific revolution. The book takes place on the cusp of the dawn of the modern world, but things happen at a slower pace provincially. "

Yes, I found this to be interesting as well, the scientific changes that are coming about, and seeing how the provincial people respond to them.

Something about the tone of this book reminds me of Anna Karenina in some ways, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe the fact that Anna was married to a man 20 years older than her and she eventually grew disenchanted with it?