Advertising on Goodreads - Who's tried it? How'd it go?

[Gary]

Thought I give a whirl at an ad for my book on Goodreads to see what would happen. So far it's appeared nearly 12,000 times but only two people have clicked on it. Curious to know what has been the experience of others.

[Reena]

I've advertised with Goodreads. My stats ranged from 0.04-0.19%, depending on the ad. Goodreads shows you should be shooting between 0.05-0.5% in terms of clicks. If you're not, you might want to consider new ads... Try ads with different wording to see what works best.

[Gary]

Thanks, Reena. This is the second go-round with a reworded ad. Same results as the first time around. Maybe the 3rd rewrite will be the lucky charm. :-)

[Gary]

Deb wrote: "If someone gives me a bad review because they like happy endings, I won't feel bad - I warned them. "

LOL! I love that. :-)
Maybe I should try "This book will creep you out." That way if someone gives it a bad review because they like warm, cozy mysteries, I won't feel bad - I warned them. :-)

[John]

Hi Gary, I've tried it several times. Plenty of clicks although the % appears low. I've tried several ads, all with the same result. Problem I have is figuring out what's better: linking to Amazon or member Goodreads TBR pile. Let it run a month. If clicks completely die, then kill the ad or revise it.

[Gary]

Hey John! How are you??? Peeps, if you haven't read John's book, No Greater Sacrifice, I highly recommend it. It's truly a "Goodread". :-)
No Greater Sacrifice

Thanks for chiming in, John. I'll let the ad run for a couple more weeks and see what happens. :-)

[Judith]

I'm glad to see this thread. I've been trying for a couple of weeks to do a Goodreads ad for my mystery and am getting nowhere. I've tweaked the language again and again -- short, long, bold, understated, the works. I've tried very specific targeting, general targeting, and no targeting at all. Thousands of views -- and not a single click. I have no idea what the problem is at this point.

[Judith]

Version 1: Tinker, tailor, scientist, quant. Death comes to Wall Street.
Version 1: Death comes to Wall Street. Now available in paperback or on Kindle.
Version 3: Shifty bioscientists! Enigmatic mathematicians! Female Wall Street power brokers! Death hits The Street. Now available in p/b and Kindle.

[Judith]

(Sorry, that second one should say Version 2.)

[Judith]

Currently, it's targeted only at Mystery. Oddly, I've never seen it appear on the Goodreads page when I launch it even though I've got mysteries galore on my bookshelf. Maybe I'm not understanding targeting?

[Judith]

Thank you, Deb! I will tweak the language again with your advice in mind. (I linked the ad to my Goodreads page too, btw -- just thought I'd mention in the ad where to pick up a copy/look inside it.)

[Reena]

You might consider not excluding so many genres. Though your book is a mystery, it may appeal to other types of readers.

Take for example I Loved You First. It's a college-aged (coming-of-age) love story but includes the following genres in the self-serve advertising: Chick-lit, Contemporary, Ebooks, Gay and Lesbian, Romance, and Young-adult.

The protagonist is too young and the topic a bit deep to classify as chick-lit, but I believe women who enjoy chick-lit could relate to the story line. It's not a romance, but it has romantic elements. It's a coming-of-age novel, but many young adults are fascinated with the next step after college.

Open up your ads to folks who walk the genre line. :)

Though Deb linked to the Goodreads page, which is recommended by Goodreads, keep in mind you can run more than one ad under a single campaign. I have ads for Goodreads, Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, etc. under a single campaign. Since Amazon separates their websites by country, I even have separate country ads. Remember to only include the country listed. You don't want folks in the UK clicking on Amazon.com. A lot of people are too lazy to search for a book if the link doesn't automatically bring them there. For the heading, I'd put something like "I Loved You First on Kindle" usually with the price tag.

I don't know if that helps, but I add the location and price to help weed out the non-buyers.

Also, running multiple ads at once will help you determine which ads are more effective. Then you can create more ads which yield similar or better results and ditch the others.

If you can think of a zinger of a byline, it'll attract more attention. It's tough when you don't have a lot of room to work with though. This is one I use for I Loved You First. "Alexandria guards two secrets close to her heart. One—she’s in love with her best friend, Seth. Two—he’s gay."

The first two sentences are so what, but the last throws in the twist. What's the shocker factor for your piece? Once you determine it, find a way to put it in your ads.

[Judith]

Reena, I can't thank you enough -- this comment is loaded with valuable information.

I don't know how I managed to miss the incredibly important point that one campaign can contain multiple ads. I will generate some new ones right away. I particularly like the idea of separate ads for separate countries. Very interesting! (Is there a limit on how many ads one campaign can contain?)

Also, about targeting. It's never been clear to me: does a list of genres get the ad in front of people who are interested in Genre A, Genre B AND Genre C or Genre A, Genre B OR Genre C? I had attributed the failure of the first incarnation of my ad to the fact that I had targeted it to seven groups. Maybe that was actually an asset.

As you can see, I'm new to the marketing game. Thank you for helping me out!

[Sarah]

Judith (or anyone else trying to write effective ad copy)

I've got a series of blogs you might find useful. I know it's a bit of vested self-interest to point you to my blog and tell you to go read my posts but I think a certain level of education, done privately, not on this thread, is in order. I can't help but think that sounds truly condescending of me to say but I'm sorry, your ad copy is simply not click-worthy. You don't motivate viewers of the ad to actually take any action at all. Even your mention of Kindle isn't an imperative command. Your ad is just...there.

One of the most basic and hardest to internalize tenets of writing effective ad copy is to actually ASK FOR THE SALE. I know, I know! This sure seems like it'd be obvious but look at your variations of ad copy. Not once did you actually tell me to "click here" or "buy now" did you? I need to be ordered to purchase your book or I'll read your ad and ...move on. Try this to start:

Webbiegrrl's 2d Blog on Writing Headlines that Work

I've been blogging on this subject to remind myself to do it. Writing headlines is not natural for a novelist. This blog and the one I wrote last year were in the context of writing promo tweets--a 140-character sales pitch (or shorter, given 10 or so characters are required for your shortened URL)--but you can totally extend that into writing other kinds of ad copy.

I actually took most of the discussion's content from the Copyblogger's advice on writing headlines for blog posts. I link to them all over the place so you can read their source material, too. Writing ad copy is writing ad copy. Get into the mood of it.

Getting a customer through the bazillion "no's" and to the "yes" is an art form. Novelists tend to truly suck at headline writing. We like 100k words, not 100 characters. Unless it's a cast of characters (LOL) I'd also HIGHLY recommend you read one of the best books ever written on how to effectively sales-pitch just about anything to anyone:



If you do, in fact, visit my blog, please also take a look at the links across the top of the page. The first one is the Twitter series where I previously discussed headline-writing but please take a look at the others, where I discuss the marketing and branding basics you need to have inside your head when you make choices about how to pitch your sales tent. Positioning, marketing strategies and branding are an industry unto themselves. Even the Big Six Traditional publishers aren't necessarily all that much on top of how to do these activities effectively. Certainly, they aren't keeping up with the ever-changing impact digital publishing is having and we Indie Authors and Indie Publishers are completely blowing them away. Know why? We're willing to adapt and be flexible while they cling to their laurels.

Let's see, Darwin said the "fittest" would be those species who are able to adapt and be flexible so if you add that up, carry the one....yeah, I think that means we win :)

One last piece of advice just for you, Judith, specifically regarding your ad copy. I think you're struggling to stuff every last "relevant" facet of your book into your ad copy. Don't. It's like job-hunting. Your resume is just supposed to get you in the door, to get the interview, not the job. It's once you're in that you sell yourself into the job, right? Likewise, the ad is just supposed to get the reader to click through, not sell the entire book in one "eye shot." In that one eye shot, all you need to do is get them curious, ask a question they'll want answered, give them a reason to care what that (your ad copy) means exactly. Tell them what exactly is "in it" for them?

I'm an engineer and I write SciFi under a pen name. I can sooooo totally relate to your emotional craving to insert the math and science into your ad. Don't. Resist the urge, Judith!! You can do it. ^_^ You are SELLING not educating in that single eye shot. Just sell the mystery. Sell the money. Sell the sexy. Don't sell the science and math. Science doesn't sell, except for non-fiction, and even then you have to sell your credentials not the science. And Math scares your average Goodreads user, even those of us who are engineers! I do calculus in my head, fer gossake...and yet, when I come to Goodreads, if I'm not in "sell sell sell" mode, I'm here to relax, to NOT think and to find some entertainment. If you pitch me Mathematics, that's work. At least for non-mathematicians. It certainly isn't "fun" to read so it won't sell the idea of "fun" book, get it now!

Good luck and I hope some of my blog posts and series help anyone stopping by this thread. I'm about to release an amazingly-well-edited version of the 22 Laws of Marketing (for Indie Authors) series in eBook form. I'm currently blogging a chapter a week of the new one, 22 Laws of Branding (for Indie Authors) and yeah, totally based on the work of Madison Avenue Godfather, Al Ries. Check out his originals:

and then


Read those today, then read my blogs next on how to adapt them to our Indie Publishing industry.

-sry
@webbiegrrl

[Sarah]

Oh and I should say I'm still interested in real-life, first-person experiences with the Goodreads "self-serve" advertising system.

For instance, I started to investigate it and I seem to have to create a campaign before they'll even tell me about the pricing, let alone let me go off and choose a pricing scheme. Can anyone here explain how their pricing works?

I know an "impression" is a page load, the instance of "impressing" the image onto the eyeballs of a Goodreads visitor. It has nothing to do with clicks. Is it purely based on impressions?

Are there click-through fees as well?

Are there any other fees? Limits? (high or low limits)

Are there any other parameters Goodreads makes you choose? Can you use an animated ad to display multiple screens in one ad file? Does that cost more?

Without actually setting up to BUY an ad, apparently, Goodreads doesn't want me to know these things. Seems kind of silly. I should think they'd provide a pricing page where you can interactively customize your ad campaign and buy/decline what facets work best for you. Those kinds of interactive purchasing pages tend to sell more than "guided" and "secretive" (I won't tell you anything else until you tell me this first) often lose customers part way through the process. They lost me on the first click.

-sry
@webbiegrrl

[Jennifer]

I did a giveaway (2 paperback copies) on Goodreads and think it was a much better return on my investment than buying an ad -- at least for right now. More than 600 people entered to win, almost 200 added my book to their "to read" list* ... and what I spent was the cost of two books plus shipping -- and I definitely got two readers out of it!

Just my 2 cents...

*(Goodreads reminds everyone who enters the drawing to add the book to their "to read" list, but obviously only a small percentage actually do that!)

[Chris]

Jennifer wrote: "I did a giveaway (2 paperback copies) on Goodreads and think it was a much better return on my investment than buying an ad -- at least for right now. More than 600 people entered to win, almost 2..."

Jennifer - pure gold! Your 2 cents is actually worth A FORTUNE! Thank you for posting...it is so true, but so easy to forget and a very hard lesson learned. If there is anything the GR community proves is that good writing will be rewarded - over and over and over again!

[Marius]

How can I see my ad on the page where it's placed, its instantiations at a given moment?:-)

[[deleted user]]

I posted several ads for my 3 books and changed the wording several times. I had considerable trouble with the workings of the system. On one ad I had the clicks going to that book's page on my website but the stats on my website and the number of clicks I paid for were very different. The website number were much lower than the stats said. http://www.holygrail.ca I didn't see an increase in sales.

[Liam]

Sarah wrote: "Oh and I should say I'm still interested in real-life, first-person experiences with the Goodreads "self-serve" advertising system.

For instance, I started to investigate it and I seem to have to..."

I'm in the same state of uncertainty Sarah. If I read it right, we would pay per click, not per impression. And we set our own price that we will pay per click (from 10 cents to $300(!)). And then we somehow set a budget - either a max number of clicks or max amount we will spend per day. Goodreads then runs an algorithm that tries to get your ad in front of people until you get the clicks you've budgeted each day - but ads that get more clicks and that pay goodreads more per click get a better shot at showing up in front of people.

Furthermore, I believe these are the little 'sponsored' ads that appear toward the bottom right of the web site with a cover image, a link, and some text. NOT the bigger animated ads in the sidebar nor the banner ad along the top. Those are probably from the custom ad package you can inquire about apart from the self-serve ads. I submitted a request for information from goodreads yesterday regarding the custom ad packages, but haven't heard from anyone yet.

Liam

[Sarah]

Thanks for the update, Liam! It'll be really interesting to see what happens to "advertising" options now that Amazon has bought the site.

Although I have mixed feelings towards Amazon's exclusive and restrictive KDP Select program, I am really excited about the possibilities that exist for Amazon to leverage their sales and marketing tools against Goodreads readership.

[Liam]

I hope there will still be advertising options accessible to us small guys. The announcement may explain why I haven't received a response yet from Goodreads to my inquiry about the custom ad packages.

[Liam]

I got a response from my inquiry about Goodreads custom packages today. The gist of it is - if you've got more than $5000/month to spend let's talk, otherwise we (goodreads) recommend you (Liam) stick with self-serve ads.

So...I'll be over here in the self-serve line :)

[H.E.]

Has anyone ever seen a self-serve GR ad? I've invested in self-serve ads for both of my books. It worries me that I have not seen a single self-serve ad for ANYONE, ever. I wrote and asked, and was sent a screenshot with two SS ads in a tan box on the right of the screen, and was told to look for the "tan box." Which would be easy if there "was" a tan box, which I've never once seen in the hours I spend on this site. I don't mean my ads, but ANY ads. I'm starting to regret this investment.

It doesn't make sense that they wouldn't show the ads, as they only get paid by the click. I can tweak my ads, but it would be nice to know if anyone is actually seeing them. If you have seen any, would you please let me know? Thanks! ~ Helen

[Liam]

I see the ad section Helen. They are indeed in a tan box usually on the right side bar area if I scroll down toward the bottom of pages. The tan box usually has two book ads in it and in the top right corner are the words "sponsored books" - if I click "sponsored books" it takes me to this page: http://www.goodreads.com/advertisers/...

You should be able to find the kind of click-through rate you're getting on your ads though and that will tell you whether it's worth it for you or not. I would look for those stats in the self-serve ads part of goodreads. I have never used them myself.

Edited: I see the tan box in the page that I am reading this thread on. At the top right I see the name of the group, some links, a search box, a non-self-serve ad (the big flashy expensive ad box), and then right below that the two self-server "sponsored books" ads in the tan box followed by "Books mentioned in this topic"

[H.E.]

Thank you, Liam. Good to know. That's exactly what the screenshot Margo sent me looked like. I raised my daily cap and rewrote the ads for one campaign last night; I think I may have more luck with them. I am reassured! Thanks, Helen

[Simon]

Simple answer: don't do it.

I signed up for an ad campaign and then tried to add targeting after I'd paid. After much wasted time I worked out that the GoodReads ad UI is incompatible with both Firefox and ie10. When I flagged this up to the support desk, their only suggestion was "try another browser".

Er, hold on a minute, you mean I get to pay for a service that doesn't work properly, but it's up to me to fix it? Nah.

OK, says I, I'll delete my credit card details so that they can't take any more cash. Not so fast, "page error" - imagine my surprise.

Anyway, I've contacted the GR helpdesk asking for my money back so I can cancel the add. I hope they'll be savvy enough to comply.

Be warned!

[H.E.]

On the contrary. I've been running four self-serve ads for over a month and have seen a direct impact in sales. It's also taught me how to write advertising to tease the reader enough to want to learn more. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but I couldn't be happier with it.