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Buddy Reads Discussions > Count of Monte Cristo Chap. 35 thru 39

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message 1: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 10, 2012 02:04PM) (new)

This thread WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS. Please limit the discussion to content from chapters 35 thru 39. No need to mark spoilers, but please don't discuss events beyond chapter 39.

Chapter 39 ends with the count arriving for breakfast with Albert, Morel, Debray and Morcerf and others


message 2: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments Now I know why Via del Corso is called Via del Corso. I knew what it meant before, but not where the name came from. I like acquiring random bits of information!


message 3: by [deleted user] (new)

Good morning, earlybird!


message 4: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments Good afternoon, Jeannette. I'm about to head off either to the gym or for a walk. Haven't decided which as yet.


message 5: by [deleted user] (new)

Isn't it fun when you learn things like that? I'm always learning new things about my city.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

I had to look up the word mazzolata. Luckily, I found a German wiki entry, and asked Andreas to translate the one word I didn't know. It was not a pleasant way to die.


message 7: by [deleted user] (new)

I just loved the chapter during carnival! A lot of action, and a lot of Edmond's philosophical take on life and mankind, too.

Is carnival in Rome still like that (minus the carriages)?


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Does anyone think that the Count orchestrated the abduction? I can't imagine that Vampa didn't know who Albert was. It certainly had the effect the Count was planning on.

"I accept," said the Count. "I assure you that I was only waiting for this opportunity to carry out some plans that I have been considering for a long while."


message 9: by [deleted user] (new)

A question for Kim:

In the beginning of chapter 39, the narrator describes Albert de Morcerf's lodge, or pavillion. At one point the reader is told of a well concealed little door. "This sly little door [...] cocked a snook at the concierge, escaping both his vigilance and his jurisdiction.

cocked a snook, a great bit of British English! In the US we would say "thumbed its nose" to mean the same thing. I am most curious if you know the French phrase for this one!


message 10: by [deleted user] (new)

I'll take the Italian, too, Hayes!


message 11: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments The text in French is not particularly colourful:

Cette petite porte .... se moquait du concierge ....

The verb "se moquer de" can have different meanings, but the closest to "thumbing a nose" or "cocking a snook" would be "to ignore" or "to disregard".

There is a colloquial expression equivalent to "thumb one's nose", which is "faire un pied de nez" - something like "foot the nose", but that's not the expression used in the text.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

I love the phrase, cocking a snook!


message 13: by [deleted user] (new)

Jeannette wrote: "Does anyone think that the Count orchestrated the abduction? I can't imagine that Vampa didn't know who Albert was. It certainly had the effect the Count was planning on.

"I accept," said the Co..."


Oh, I never thought of that - but that does make a lot of sense.


message 14: by [deleted user] (new)

The Count/SInbad seems to be in all of the details.


message 15: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 12, 2012 06:47AM) (new)

Jeannette wrote: "I just loved the chapter during carnival! A lot of action, and a lot of Edmond's philosophical take on life and mankind, too.

Is carnival in Rome still like that (minus the carriages)?"


No, not at all. I mentioned in another section something about carnevale, which has become a Halloween spin-off here in Rome. In other cities it's more "traditional", Venice and Viareggio are the biggies: Venice for the costumes and masks (and the location, obviously) and Viareggio for the floats:


often with a political theme:



message 16: by [deleted user] (new)

I love it! Except for New Orleans, we don't really do carnival in the US. But, Fasching is still a big deal in Germany!


message 17: by Lee, Mod Mama (new)

Lee (leekat) | 3959 comments Mod
Jeannette, I think the Count orchestrated the abduction. There's no way his friend the bandit would not have recognized his carriage.


message 18: by [deleted user] (new)

I think so, too. It certainly makes him look like the hero!


message 19: by [deleted user] (new)

I have finally finished 31-34... took forever. Let's see how much I can read this evening before falling asleep.


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

It's already getting late, so good luck! If I read this in bed, I'd be up until 1am. I might finish it if I did! lol


message 21: by [deleted user] (new)

I've become narcoleptic in my old age. Not even a good book will keep me awake anymore.


message 22: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 17, 2012 04:38AM) (new)

p 416:
... he was paying the meal the compliment one would expect from a man who has been condemned for four or five months to suffer Italian cooking (which is among the worst in the world).

hahahaha! The French and the Italians do hate each other's cooking.


message 23: by [deleted user] (new)

Well, don't ask Andreas about French cooking, either! lol


message 24: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 17, 2012 01:14PM) (new)

Chapter 37: The Catacombs of Saint Sebastian.

My son was baptized at the church of Saint Sebastian (we live nearby, so it's the parish church). It's gorgeous inside. Will look for a photo.

ETA: http://www.catacombe.org/uk_index.html

This is the ceiling:




message 25: by [deleted user] (new)

Beautiful!


message 26: by Lee, Mod Mama (new)

Lee (leekat) | 3959 comments Mod
Wow, that's a gorgeous ceiling! So much rich detail.


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

How lovely!


message 28: by [deleted user] (last edited Jan 19, 2012 09:32AM) (new)

Another question for y'all:

p 473-4:
'Take no notice, Morcerf,' Debray said offhandedly. 'Get married. You will be marrying the label on a moneybag, won't you? So what does it matter? Better that the label should have one more nought and one less shield on it. There are seven blackbirds on your own coat of arms: well, you can give three to your wife and still have four left for yourself...'

Are the blackbirds referring to a specific family, or specific heraldry device? Or was it just a fictitious example?

Thre's no footnote, so it's probably just an example, but I thought I'd ask.


message 29: by [deleted user] (new)

We'll wait for Kim! :)


Susanna - Censored by GoodReads (susannag) | 529 comments I think the intent is to suggest, "yes, you're marrying money, but you have enough 'noble' blood for both of you."


message 31: by [deleted user] (new)

That sounds right, Susanna. Thanks.


message 32: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments I agree with Susanna. Morcef gets the money, his wife gets to share his family name and whatever that represents. Not that the family name is all that much to write home about, as Morcef's family is just as "parvenu" as Danglar's. However, I suppose they had the appearance of greater gentility.


message 33: by [deleted user] (new)

Morcerf bought a family history to go with his title, as well as becoming French. At least Danglers stayed Danglers.


message 34: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments Ah yes, I'd forgotten about buying the family history. The Major-General from The Pirates of Penzance did much the same thing!


message 35: by [deleted user] (new)

I was just talking with Ivan about Penzance! :)


message 36: by Kim (new)

Kim (kimmr) | 931 comments It's a family fave. I think it was the first theatrical production I ever took B to see, when she was about five. The kids were all addicted to the Kevin Kline / Linda Ronstadt film version of the Broadway production when they were kids. We've had a family outing to see the Australian Opera's production and then a couple of years ago B directed a school production which we all dutifully went to see!


message 37: by [deleted user] (new)

funny! We love the Kline film, which finally is back on dvd. The first time we watched it, we almost turned it off. It gets better with repeated viewings.

I think the first play we took Lea to was a local production of My Fair Lady. Then we saw CATS in London when she was 5. I don't think she remembers much about it.


message 38: by Tracey (new)

Tracey (stewartry) Still plodding along – finally just hit chapter 41. Obviously I'm not doing as much cleaning as I ought to, and when I try to listen before bed I tend to pick it up the next day and say "What?! Who -?" and realize I dozed off and missed a big chunk. So that leaves mostly commutes.

I never thought of the Count orchestrating the abduction – until he said something himself about his carriage, at which point I got suspicious. Vampa's not stupid, and he knows which side his bread is buttered on – he would absolutely know the Count's carriage. It was almightily convenient for His Countship – in fact, the more I think about it the more certain I am that he had to be behind it all. I wonder how many other situations he engineered so that strategic people would be indebted to him.

Anyone else miss Edmond? I could like and sympathize with him. The Count – subsisting on opium and other drugs, completely unmoved by brutality and execution, manipulative, a slave-owner – is off-putting.

Oh, how boring – both the translation I'm listening to and the "annotated" one on my Kindle have it that the door made a mockery of the concierge. Rats. (I guess you get what you pay for – I paid $1.99 for an annotated digital CofMC, and the annotations are simply biographical notes about Dumas. Which is nice, but I was hoping more for things like, say, for these chapters, a definition of mazzolata and a bit of heraldry.)

I just came upon this site: http://www.shmoop.com/count-of-monte-... - chatty and YA, but still informative. "That last one sounds pretty crude and pretty cruel, yeah? Well, it is; but it's also highly ritualized and regulated. It's called la mazzolata. Derived from the Italian mazza – mace – what it comes down to is being beaten to death with a big club. And then some." Bring the kids!


message 39: by [deleted user] (new)

The torture scene was rather gruesome. I think Dumas puts these scenes in to separate the Count from Edmond, to show us how he has hardened his heart against humanity and his enemies. It does not make him likeable. Kim and I talked about this at the end of the book, too. We'll see how you feel about the Count by the time the dust settles.


message 40: by Tracey (new)

Tracey (stewartry) The Abbe would not be happy. At least Albert is fun – he reminds me, possibly because of the way he's read, of Bertie Wooster. A little.


message 41: by [deleted user] (new)

Not as stupid. ;)


message 42: by [deleted user] (new)

I still can't decide if the Count has really become cold and cruel, unmoved by the cruelty of the executions for example, or if he is putting on a show, playing a part.


message 43: by Tracey (new)

Tracey (stewartry) Jeannette wrote: "Not as stupid. ;)"

He just gave the appearance in the beginning. Nevermind...


message 44: by [deleted user] (new)

I just read The Code of the Woosters, so Bertie is very fresh in my mind! I didn't mean to offend. (Bertie Wooster is one of the most "stupid" characters ever written, imo. I love him, but he's a bit dense.)


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