Mockingjay
discussion
Did anyone else find Katniss annoying?
I do like Katniss, but she was annoying at some points of the series. I was annoyed that she just now discovered she was in love with Peeta by the end of the last book. Also, I hated the fact that she voted 'Yes' on continuing the Hunger Games for the Capitol children. Are you effing serious!?!? Really!?! Was not the rebellion started because people were tired of the Hunger Games and the way they were treated by the Capitol? That part got me very upset. But she did get revenge on her Prim's death by killing Coin, which was a smart choice. But other than my remaining anger, Katniss is a strong and confident person. She was the one (and Peeta) who had me hooked on the series.
Aleah wrote: "I do like Katniss, but she was annoying at some points of the series. I was annoyed that she just now discovered she was in love with Peeta by the end of the last book. Also, I hated the fact that ..."She said yes for the next hunger games because she was going to kill coin, so at first she had to say yes so coin wouldnt susspect anything, once katniss killed coin there was no last hunger games
Ryeleigh wrote: Of course you wouldnt, she said so herself she wasnt likeable, i mean i would like her, but she said in general she was quiet and unlikeable Well yes, that's exactly what I meant. That was the question, whether we found Katniss annoying. She was real and raw and so on and so on but that doesn't excuse her from being unlikable and that's not necessarily wrong, I mean characters must be believable in order to create a good story but just because they are believable doesn't mean we have to like them. I'm glad you like her though.
I did love the books though because Peeta and well... there is that awesome story about the capitol and all that but still PEETA! All that goodness!
I don't really understand why people are confused by the change in Katniss' character. Further, I do not agree that she is supposed to be unlikable at all. I think that maybe you all are as desensitized to violence as the characters. Lest we forget, Katniss is a human being, not a superhero. She is also a teenager who has been through a HORRENDOUS trauma! At the start of the series her only goal is to keep herself and her family, the people she loves, alive. That never changes. Her reticence to be the Mockingjay stems from that. In her mind, and I think Collins portrays this beautifully, is that being the symbol of the resistance means she's a target, and of course she's right. That may seem selfish, but when you've survived the kind of grotesque brutality that she has, how can you blame her for wanting to have a chance at life? When Haymitch implores the room full of observers after the dismal recording of her first propo to tell him about a time when Katniss touched them -not because of her story or because of what other people say about her, but because of HER the deep love and obligation she has toward her family and those she cares about is reiterated.
The fact is, Katniss isn't a politician, she's not even a soldier, she's just a myopic teenaged girl, which, again, is so much more realistic to me. She can't make herself care about a movement if she doesn't understand how it affects her personally and if her loved ones die in spite of it.
Not to mention Coin is an evil b who was controlling Katniss as much, if not more than Snow.
I think Katniss was human, she had major trauma and stress issues, and it's a marvel she didn't kill herself in MJ. To me, that makes her more realistic. I would have hated it if she turned into this mindless killing machine, which is the other option.
No, not all. Seriously. I don't know why, but I can relate to Katniss more than I can relate to any other YA female heroines these days. Yes; she had made bad decisions and reckless actions and a lot of complaints throughout the entire series. But could you really blame her? She was 16 when she entered the Games. In my opinion, that was such a young age to be emotionally tortured. Their family was very poor; barely eating real meals. She had lost her father and was forced to be the breadwinner of the family instead. Katniss had been through so much considering her age.So, what did you expect from her? Be like 'Oh... it's alright. I won't complain. I'll just go through with it.'
No. Katniss was human; flawed, imperfect, capable of breaking down. Her character development was realistic. She might have started off as strong, and then weaker later on. But as I said, it's realistic.
What I liked about how Suzanne Collins wrote her was that Katniss admitted to herself what kind of person she was:
“All those months of taking it for granted that Peeta thought I was wonderful are over. Finally, he can see me for who I really am. Violent. Distrustful. Manipulative. Deadly. And I hate him for it.”
She knew she was not perfect, that she had done wrong things, decisions. But Katniss was aware of it and was not pretending that she's always right.
Anyone who hates Katniss doesn't understand what it feels like to be a real human.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still liked her but she was so ANNOYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gwynneth wrote: "A lot of people are saying that she can be excused for becoming a drug-dependent, self-absorbed whiner in Mockingjay because of all she had lived through,but I don't buy that. It wasn't the premise..."I agree. People always excuse Katniss by using her "realistic character" and "she had gone through hell" and "she has reason to be selfish". I don't buy any of these.
She had gone through hell? Haven't Gale, Peeta and Haymitch been there too?
She had reasons to be selfish? Shouldn't almost all of the other characters also have reasons to be selfish and think only about how to save their own hide?
Her personality being realistic? Then can anyone explain why she started as a character who can at least hold her ground at the beginning only to become Bella Swan who is constantly being manipulated, who cried and hid herself when other people are fighting and dying outside? That's no character's growth in her. Instead what SC had done to Katniss is anti-character's growth.
Jake wrote: "I hated Katniss as a character. I especially find it laughable when I come across those who say she is a "strong" female character.Other than the initial volunteering to replace her younger siste..."
Thank you! You've expressed my feelings perfectly.
My son liked the movie much more than the book for this reason. I explained how she was a loner and didn't want all this attention, but he still didn't like her. I thought she did well for a loner. :)
she was great in the first and second book, but in the third i just got sick of her.
you know what i love this thread i found katniss SOOOO ANNOYING and love how others agree!
Wayan wrote: "you know what i love this thread i found katniss SOOOO ANNOYING and love how others agree!"
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Every time someone mentions the books I say, "The plot was decent, but Katniss was annoying to the point I wanted to shake her." I think Jennifer Lawrence does a better job portraying her as a less irritable character.
No more annoying than the author, the story, the whole series of inane books, the mendacious buzz and hoopla, the moronic quality of the whole story concept, the derivative and borrowed nature of the narrative in the first place..no more annoying than any of the other idiotic and flimsy characters with stupid/catchy names; their unrealistic behavior and preposterous relationships and decisions; no more annoying than the poor writing, or the cud-chewing, bovine fans of this execrable pop-culture fad.
Katniss is probably my least favorite character. She is so whiny and ignorant to the two great guys that love her. Also, when she said in MJ that Peeta was just another one of Snow's mutts, then Haymitch yelled at her over the phone about being too hostile, I was like: yeah you go, Haymitch! Katniss is also so naive that she needs everything spelled out for her. SC ruined the last book with short, confusing endings for great characters (Prim, Finnick, etc) and just a horrible ending for others (Gale doesn't say goodbye, her mother gets only a brief mention, Annie is left a widow, and we don't hear about Johanna at all after voting for the last games with Coin).Ugggggghhhhhh, soooooo annoying!!!
Katniss was unbearable in the 3rd book. She was really annoying and overly dramatic in the 3rd book. That was the worst book in the series.
I agree. I didn't mind her in the beginning but in mocking jay I disliked her. Some of the choices she made just seemed selfish and irrational.
Stephanie wrote: "Katniss never annoyed me. She was real. People aren't meant to be perfect and say exactly what everybody wants or thinks they should or should not say. Yes, at times Katniss was off. She went throu..."agreed.
Katniss was a great character. Her flaws are what made her real. She went through hell and back, and it's a miracle that she even survived. Most people would have lost their minds (or probably would have died, considering most people don't have Katniss's cleverness and strength.) Also, I found Katniss to be at her strongest in Mockingjay. She had been through SO much. But she STILL defended others, and was still fearless. After going through TWO Hunger Games, losing so many people, and being under so much pressure - how could you expect her to be perfectly fine? She was suffering. She was scared. She was only seventeen. Of course she was going to be at least a little mixed up. I think people are too hard on her. She's the strongest heroine I've read about in a long time - not only going through so much, but taking care of others. Of herself. And she had been doing it since she was eleven. She's amazing.
Isabella wrote: "Katniss is actually one of my favourite characters out of any book ever. And I mean, ever. She's actually realistic. She's not all happy and perfect all the time, like a lot of other characters I c..."Preach!
Jules:) wrote: "In MJ yes she pissed me off. Too complainy and sedated all the time. (is complainy even a word?:P) But I think she voted for the games because she had in her head to kill Coin. Collins didn't let u..."Yes thats how I read it also. She voted yes and Haymitch was just following her lead because he knew she was up to something…probably to kill Coin.
Annoying! If only you know what shes been through! I bet your annoying yourself! Shes brave and confident! I bet your not brave and confident! I cried when I finished the book s because I knew its over! Lets put you in an arena and send a pack of wild dogs, 23 people hunting you down, a new horror every hour, someone threatening you and the people you love unless you marry a guy you dont even like, and putting you in war with the president stalking you!
Dont be baka! ( yah, look up what that means! (: )
She just got blown up and all, and shes mentally disoriented,
AND HER LITTLE SISTER JUST DIED!!!
Thats what got her there in the first place, Primrose Everdeen, and now its all gone! At first I didnt know what happened and then it said, "...he killed my sister..."
Dont be "baka". DONT!!!
Especially since you dont know what shes been through.
In my opinion, you wouldnt last the Cornucopia!
And THATS what I think.
Funny how a lot of Divergent fans called Katniss selfish especially how Tris is the main character in Divergent. Just saying, since a couple fans of it commented on this.
Abigail wrote: "Annoying! If only you know what shes been through! I bet your annoying yourself! Shes brave and confident! I bet your not brave and confident! I cried when I finished the book s because I knew its..."
Primrose died at the end of the book, right?
Then how about at the beginning of Mockingjay (I mean the first 100 of pages), the brave Katniss spent the longest of time hiding in a corner DOING NOTHING whilst other people were fighting for their freedom and dying outside? What had the brave Katniss done about this?
Jake wrote: "I hated Katniss as a character. I especially find it laughable when I come across those who say she is a "strong" female character.Other than the initial volunteering to replace her younger siste..."
My words exactly.
Abigail wrote: "Annoying! If only you know what shes been through! I bet your annoying yourself! Shes brave and confident! I bet your not brave and confident! I cried when I finished the book s because I knew its..."
Katniss wasn't the only one to go into the arena. Finnick and Haymitch went in there as well and unlike Katniss they were actively taking part in the rebellion. I'm not expecting Katniss to be perfect, I just wanted to see her fighting back rather than crying over the things she couldn't change.
you voiced out my opinion, Ayesha.
^^^^ Katniss WAS fighting back. Have you not read the books? She was the one who started the whole thing, even! And she wasn't the o ly one "crying" - they were all pretty mixed up.
Haymitch and the rebels started and fought for the revolution, Katniss never wants to have anything to do with it---she basically wants everything to magically go back to 'normal' but when it comes to actually get the tough jobs done, her involvement and effort is pitiful at best. Instead she threw a bitch fit against Haymitch at the end of Catching Fire, complaining about being used by him (she keeps blaming him even when everything else is at stake, give me a break), and then cried and whined and did nothing when other people fought.
Don't give Katniss so much credit.
My biggest issue with Mockingjay was that for half the book Katniss didn't do anything, and the action sequence at the end wasn't enough to save it. The first book was amazing and the second was good, but the third was a big disappointment.
She reminded me of Bella from Twilight, always brooding and calling herself selfish, and whining about her situation. By the End of MockingJay I wanted to slap some sense into her.
Nancy wrote: "She reminded me of Bella from Twilight, always brooding and calling herself selfish, and whining about her situation. By the End of MockingJay I wanted to slap some sense into her."And mind you, Katniss isn't the only victim of the Hunger Games, Finnick and Haymitch had suffered just as much, also Johanna lost everyone she had ever loved, Annie was taken as a hostage in order to threat Finnick, but I haven't seen any of these people giving up fighting and whine about their suffering.
I didn't really hate her, i just thought she was very dry. Almost no emotion, it seemed.
I liked Katniss in that she represents how realistic people would act if we were in her position. Even as people explain the reasons why they hate Katniss, I feel like they aren't understanding why Collins wrote the series this way. By the way, Katniss never really wanted the Hunger Games to continue. Like somebody else said, it's to lull Coin into thinking that she's on her side.
I liked Katniss in the beginning because she wanted to protect her sister and she was logical, but by the end of the series it felt like she just wanted to do whatever she wanted, and how she tugged between Peeta and Gale was terrible. Like make up your mind, yeah of course people get lonely but they probably wouldn't go kissing other people for the heck of it.Also, I hated how she didn't do much for the uprising.
Mizuki wrote: "Abigail wrote: "Annoying! If only you know what shes been through! I bet your annoying yourself! Shes brave and confident! I bet your not brave and confident! I cried when I finished the book s be..."
Katniss isn't a coward for mourning her sister. Realistically, NO ONE would get over their beloved younger sister in, like, 2 seconds. Plus, the whole thing started BECAUSE K A T N I S S started fighting back. So, yeah - she IS brave.
Mizuki wrote: "Nancy wrote: "She reminded me of Bella from Twilight, always brooding and calling herself selfish, and whining about her situation. By the End of MockingJay I wanted to slap some sense into her."..."
No offense, but your reasons for hating/disliking Katniss are unreasonable. Everyone was upset in the book, it's just that we could read what Katniss was thinking. And like I said: she WAS fighting back. You can't expect her to do everything - adults are involved too. She's only seventeen..
Erica wrote: "I liked Katniss in the beginning because she wanted to protect her sister and she was logical, but by the end of the series it felt like she just wanted to do whatever she wanted, and how she tugge..."Her relationship with Gale and Peeta is a little more complex than "just kissing for the heck of it."
Katniss didn't want to be the Mockingjay because she realized the rebels and Coin was using her. Coin was setting herself up to take President Snow's place. As far as her being whiny and complaining a lot, yes, it did seem like she did that a lot. However, it makes sense since she had been through TWO Hunger Games, and Coin and Petrarch were still using her. She was tired of being their pawn. She wanted to keep Peeta safe, and Coin didn't understand that Peeta was the one who would be best at bringing the country together again after the Hunger Games and rebellion were over. He knew how to lead and talk to people. When Coin allowed him to be tortured by the Capital instead of getting him back right away, he was basically almost ruined. She lost hope, and then her whole reason for going through all of this - to keep Prim safe - became null and void when she dies. I will admit that I almost didn't read Hunger Games because the first time I read it, I didn't really like Katniss, but then I gave it another shot, and I've read it several times. I agree with Ryeleigh. Katniss is supposed to be unlikeable, but even so I came to like her.
Sandra wrote: "Erica wrote: "I liked Katniss in the beginning because she wanted to protect her sister and she was logical, but by the end of the series it felt like she just wanted to do whatever she wanted, and..."I'm not saying it's not complex, it's her thoughts that make me mad. There was a chapter that she did kiss Gale "just for the heck of it" to keep him from talking/looking sad AND Gale knew if he made that look she would kiss him.
It's been sometime I read the novel and probably would have to read it again, but I do remember she admitted to herself that she was lonely and ended up kissing Peeta because of that as well.
I would have still liked her if she came to realize she loved Peeta when she woke up, realized he was gone and found out she loved him or realized that Gale isn't the one for her. She had those thoughts too late into the book.
Erica wrote: "Sandra wrote: "Erica wrote: "I liked Katniss in the beginning because she wanted to protect her sister and she was logical, but by the end of the series it felt like she just wanted to do whatever ..."Her feelings of them don't make her an unlikable character. She did feel lonely sometimes, but there was this one part that I thought was really nice where she was like "Well, I could survive without either of them."
Anyways, her love interests weren't the main topic of the novel(s).
I admit that her other qualities are good, but the romance bit did become a bit more important in the third book. When she did say "I could survive without either of them" she was angry at the fact that Gale had said "Katniss will pick whoever she can't live without" That was the only time she said that, because afterwards she had those thoughts about not being able to decide who she loved.
Erica wrote: "I admit that her other qualities are good, but the romance bit did become a bit more important in the third book. When she did say "I could survive without either of them" she was angry at the fa..."
And I don't see the problem with that..?
And yeah, I know, but I think it's because they're kinda like two different sides to her - Gale being the old her, the hunter and head of the home, and Peeta being who she became after the Games.
Sandra wrote: "Erica wrote: "I admit that her other qualities are good, but the romance bit did become a bit more important in the third book. When she did say "I could survive without either of them" she was a..."
I do agree that Gale is her before the games, I really don't think Peeta is her after the games. She is still similar to Gale but she changed.
Kathleen wrote: "Katniss didn't want to be the Mockingjay because she realized the rebels and Coin was using her. Coin was setting herself up to take President Snow's place. As far as her being whiny and complaini..."
Katniss made a bargain with 13 and Coin at the first place, she agreed to be their Mockingjay after Coin agreed to follow her conditions, so please don't make it sound like Katniss is some innocent Snow White. Plus I don't like to argue on Coin's behalf, but hadn't she been stuck to Katniss's conditions?
And exactly what she had done after she realized the rebels may not be the all-good freedom fighters? She whined and complained about it, as if complaints can magically make everything alright again!
That isn't a strong person would do (I mean, can you imagine Katniss from the first book sits on her ass and complain instead of fighting back?!), a strong person would have tried to DO SOMETHING about the bad situation they had found themselves in, not throwing themselves pity party while other people are fighting and dying.
and Coin didn't understand that Peeta was the one who would be best at bringing the country together again after the Hunger Games and rebellion were over.
I beg to differ here. Didn't Katniss overhear Coin telling other rebels they should have saved Peeta instead of her from the Arena, just a few chapters into Mockingjay?
Why so nervous, Astoria? I always feel myself being respected when you're around.Haymitch drinks his pain out. Peeta deals with his through soft methods, like painting. Gale is angry. He wanted to riot against everyone, destroy everyone. Isn't that just as bad as Katniss. Johanna, again, feels like she is not loved because she lost her family.
While Johanna is cursing and being offensive and Haymitch drinks his pain out, they are still functioning and actively trying to fight, which I didn't see Katniss doing enough.
I don't know what to say about Gale, whilst being angry with the Capitol like you said, this guy actively gets things done and makes himself useful, which is so unlike Katniss.
and wait, I didn't say anything about Katniss want to continue the hunger games on this discussion. Although I would not put it past her. After I saw her leading the rest of her team through hell in order to get revenge from Snow. For god's sake, she leads her friends to death so she could seek revenge, this is beyond being 'annoying'; it's being downright hateful and selfish.
Suzanne Collins wanted to make her selfish and unforgiving, and if that grates on the readers' nerves, she has done the trick.
I doubt it's Collins' intention to make Katniss unlikable. Haven't you noticed through Katniss's narration, it's always everyone else but Katniss who is at fault? First it's her mother for 'checking out', then Haymitch for lying to her, then it's Gale for 'killing' Prim, then it's the rebels, blah blah blah. Nothing is Katniss's fault. Collins wants us to buy Katniss as the innocent victim more than anything.
I didn't feel like Katniss was completely ineffectual. In fact, she did accept to be the Mockingjay, she did make those video footages,I admit she did all these---but complaining about it every step of her way.
If I were in Katniss' place, feeling her rage, I might/ might not do the same. Not everyone is as kind as Peeta.
I admire you for admitting Katniss might actually agree to another Hunger Games against children from the Capitol.
It's off topic, but for the life in me, I still have no idea why Katniss shooting Coin to death can result in Hunger Games being stopped. Katniss is being viewed as insane, and she never publicly defends herself. So why would her action of killing Coin could be credited to the Hunger Games being stopped?
Actually, Suzanne Collins did not want to make her an antagonistic character, but neither did he make her a Mary Sue.
I agree Katniss is not a Mary Sue in the first two books, but very unluckily for her and Collins, in Mockingjay she becomes Bella Swan in the end.
And in my previous reply, I was not saying anything about Katniss being a Mary Sue, I'm talking about through her narration, she always holds other people responsible, even making others into the 'bad guys'. In the first book, she antagonized Cato and Foxface etc without even once admitting they were just humans who also only want to survive. In Mockingjay, she constantly holds Haymitch responsible for lying (whilst the old man tried to save her from the Arena), and then she holds Gale responsible for 'killing' Prim. In her mind, other people are always in the wrong. Now, she's getting pathetic.
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I wonder whether that was intentional? Katniss only knew the pain of losing a parent and couldn't bring herself to forgive her mom until much later. What her mom did was awful, but I think in the same position Katniss would have rather died than lose Peeta. I do think that if Prim survived and Peeta died, Katniss would have pressed on for Prim's sake but would never be whole again.
As for the question of why Katniss would ever agree to another Hunger Games- she says "For Prim" when she casts her vote. Prim would never want another Hunger Games, Katniss just needed to avoid becoming Coin's enemy and enable Coin's assassination at the same time.