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Any authors in the KDP Select Program?
Who can say what to expect? It all depends on people, what they are interested in, what money they have to spend, what time they have to spend, and what mood they are in. As for KDP conspiracies screwing with your ranking based on negative comments or what you are enrolled in, I just don't see it. There are thousands of titles involved here. Don't be so arrogant as to think Amazon is paying any attention to you. They would have to hire thousands of people to spy on you and then mess with your account. That's sort of odd to think they would. William, as far as numbers, they could be all over the place. I put a lot of effort in exposure for a book, and I've only sold about one book a month. Another book, which I made no effort to tell anyone about, has done better. The fact is, none of this is anything you can count on. The good part of self-publishing is the control you have. But we just can't promote like the big houses. And without that, you are relying on a very small portion of people out there to notice, take interest, decide to spend the money, then actually take the time to read something that is very time consuming. So don't set your expectations. Just enjoy writing, get it out there when you are sure it is ready, and then don't worry too much about it. And don't quit your day-job.
I just ran a 2-day promo and hoped for at least 10,000 downloads (I had 15,000 of the same book for a 2-day promo in March), but I ended up with only 4000. I knew that wouldn't be enough. Sales and rankings have only very slightly gone up since the promotion ended - and I suspect that may be more to do with Christmas than my promo. Got 2 reviews. One good. One bad.I noticed that my novel was showing up in free listings of nonfiction when the free rankings kicked in (on. com, not .co.uk). I've emailed Amazon about it and they said they'd get back to me in a few days. Not sure that helped visibility... :(
Jason, I think you're right!
Jason wrote: "Who can say what to expect? It all depends on people, what they are interested in, what money they have to spend, what time they have to spend, and what mood they are in. As for KDP conspiracies ..."Thanks, Jason!! Good advice. One thing I've found is that investing the time to be at a fair or bookstore gets about 10 times the result as the same time investment in on-line promos. Just my experience.
Jason wrote: "So don't set your expectations. Just enjoy writing, get it out there when you are sure it is ready, and then don't worry too much about it. And don't quit your day-job. ..."Well said. Brilliant and succinct. I'm going to print it out and stick it on my pinboard as a reminder!
D.M. Andrews (GoodReads Author) wrote: "I just ran a 2-day promo and hoped for at least 10,000 downloads (I had 15,000 of the same book for a 2-day promo in March), but I ended up with only 4000. I knew that wouldn't be enough. Sales and..."Your example is precisely the kind of anecdotal evidence that I've understood is at the heart of why so many authors write off Select as being useless without understanding how it works. To have a successful free campaign, those are exactly the kinds of numbers of downloads required to achieve the visibility that's necessary to ride a sales wave on the back of a campaign. Hundreds of downloads won't do it. Thousands of downloads probably won't work either. Tens of thousands of downloads during a free campaign is the most effective way to get those after-promo sales. 10,000 downloads is probably a respectable baseline for cutting through the glut of free books to get noticed enough by Amazon customers to get piggy back sales. Anything less, and you're probably wasting time using Select.
Kevis wrote: "D.M. Andrews (GoodReads Author) wrote: "I just ran a 2-day promo and hoped for at least 10,000 downloads (I had 15,000 of the same book for a 2-day promo in March), but I ended up with only 4000. I..."Kevis, I think you're right!
Marian wrote: "Kevis wrote: "Kevis, I think you're right!"It's estimated that there are almost 50,000 new books published on Amazon every month. If only a third of those books are enrolled in Select (and I suspect the number is much higher), that's more than 16,000 new books in the program every month. If a half of those books are given away for free every month, that's 8,000 new books every month fighting for a single reader's attention on the free lists (that's not even including the thousands of books already in Select or the ones that are permanently priced at free). How many books do you think one reader will download in a month? Better still, since there is only so much store space (screen width and lists) to feature free books, how many of these books will go unnoticed by readers?
When we do the math, it's easy to see why it's so hard to get noticed during a free promotion. That's why it annoys me to hear people say Select doesn't work, when it's working quite well for the authors who know how to promote their free books. Too many authors heard about the great success that some authors had with the program and think they can just enroll their books in Select, run a couple of free promotions, and ride that wave to the bank. Sadly, that couldn't be further from the truth.
Kevin, it depends on what you mean by "working quite well." If you mean one is successful in giving away thousands of copies of one's book, then I agree with you because I've done that. If you mean converting those promotions into significant numbers of sales (say, more than single digits a month), then I disagree based on my experience and that of other so-called successful writers as reported in this thread and elsewhere. Finding more readers is nice, but been there, done that, game over, time to move on and hope to slowly build sales through word of mouth (i.e., social media).
Lee wrote: "Kevin, it depends on what you mean by "working quite well." If you mean one is successful in giving away thousands of copies of one's book, then I agree with you because I've done that. If you mean..."As far as Select being used as a vehicle to get an author's book onto new Kindles, the program works like a dream. As you say, the trick is getting those readers to become paying customers, and that's where things do become a little fuzzy.
Personally, I don't like the idea of giving away potentially thousands of books just to sell 10. I also think there are way too many free books out there and it is changing the buying habits of readers to expect something for nothing. I don't mind the occasional giveaway (I've been playing this free game longer than most). But at some point, I believe authors need to be paid for their work and that's where I draw the line.
I'm less concerned with the Exclusivity option with Amazon, or their ability to get a stranglehold on the market with their aggressive marketing schemes to readers and authors. But I do see the market becoming saturated, if it isn't already, with all these free books and suspect that it will hurt authors in the long run. Last time I checked even the grocery stores are smart enough to give away samples, not their entire supply. Maybe authors could do well to take a cue from those guys.
I liked what you said, Kevis.Down here at the grocery the people grazing at the giveaway table are called moochers. I'm told that the greatest number of them never buy a thing.
I read around the net from people who say they're in the know. Most of these say that actual sales and actual loyal customers (fans) are earned. I read a day or two ago that word of mouth sells more books than anything else. I guess that means, like a politician, we need to go out amongst the people and press the flesh.
Have any of you had a book recommended to you by someone who got it for free? I haven't - but then I'm kind of a hermit.
Maybe we could do better giving away bookmarks and keychains than our bread-and-butter books.
I'm doing KDP and trying to nuture the skill of patience.
Steven wrote: "I liked what you said, Kevis.Down here at the grocery the people grazing at the giveaway table are called moochers. I'm told that the greatest number of them never buy a thing.
I read around the..."
Excellent post, Steven. I agree with what you and Lee say about cultivating a readership. I can't blame anyone for trying to chum the waters with free books to speed things along. This is a tough business. But it's a Darwinian industry. And only the fittest will survive. I think patience, even more than talent, is a prerequisite for success in this industry.
The one constant I've noticed is very much the same thing you have mentioned: word of mouth trumps any other form of marketing. That means it really comes down to the product you're putting out and if your books are connecting with readers. That's why I left Select and rarely bother with the hard pitch in trying to promote my books. Way I see it, if my book covers, blurbs, and samples can't get readers to one-click, then I need to get back to the lab and produce books that will. As one of my best friends said to me the other day: "The reader is the one with all the power. They have the power to put your book down, or not buy it at all." Once an author takes his ego out of the equation, it's easy to see that the reader is indeed King and writing the books they want to read is what makes all the difference in the number of books an author sells.
My books are classified as children's, so you should get better results with a thriller, romance, etc.Yup, I'd agree that 10,000 is probably a good number to shoot for.
Don't pay for any ads - in my experience, they never work and I've had them on the big sites, too. Spend the money on an editor and cover artists instead.
I've not renewed with Select.I agree that it's the book that sells - writing more books = more exposure = more readers = more sales.
William wrote: "Jason wrote: "Who can say what to expect? It all depends on people, what they are interested in, what money they have to spend, what time they have to spend, and what mood they are in. As for KDP..."I agree. I recently was invited to speak about my book and writing in general in front of a group and I sold as many books as I normally do in about a month. Now this may be because the group consisted of mostly 9 year olds, my target audience, and they probably don't do a lot of their book shopping online. But I think it's generally easier to get people excited about your books in person. I think your own excitement and passion can be contagious. It's hard to convey that as well online.
@Kevis -thanks and you gave words of true wisdom.@DM - Amen & Amen on the paid ads. I'm gonna stick with KDP at least through 2 rounds. They've a lot of my money through years as a customer. So, maybe I'll get some back thru royalties.
@Elle - Great experience. Agreement and AMEN too!
I'm getting around 30 sales per month on my first KDP title. I'm putting up another soon, so I'll be interested to see if they each help me gain more exposure. Any day I get more than one sale I'm happy. And every sale I get I'm pretty amazed. I'm not sure if its my cover and title, or if it's just amazon's recommendation system or what that's getting my book in front of customers, but either way, I'm amazed that I get any sales at all.
I put this book up on November first, used all my free days early in November, got about 800 free dl's, and I've been making sales every day since.
I haven't paid for any advertising but I'm wondering if anyone has anything good to report on ads. I know you're against them DM Andrews, and I'm pretty sure I fully agree with you, but without any personal experience I would love to hear what others have to say abotu PoI, Kindle Nation, etc.
Kevis wrote: 'Personally, I don't like the idea of giving away potentially thousands of books just to sell 10. I also think there are way too many free books out there and it is changing the buying habits of readers to expect something for nothing. I don't mind the occasional giveaway (I've been playing this free game longer than most). But at some point, I believe authors need to be paid for their work and that's where I draw the line."I agree with you there. There is way to many free books out there. But KDP Select allows authors to give away their book for free for 5 days every 90. And a lot of writers are happy to just give their work away. I don't expect to ride the money train with my writing. But trying to get paying reader when I am just one in thousands screaming buy my book. Something has got to give somewhere. I also believe that a good deal of readers have adopted the wait and see approach knowing that sooner or later the book will go on a free promo. Not like we can offer any other type of promos.
D.M. Andrews (GoodReads Author) wrote: "Don't pay for any ads - in my experience, they never work and I've had them on the big sites, too. Spend the money on an editor and cover artists instead."A number of people have said the same thing, so I haven't spent any money on advertising. I know my editor and cover artist have made my work much better; they're worth every penny.
Steven wrote: "I liked what you said, Kevis.Down here at the grocery the people grazing at the giveaway table are called moochers. I'm told that the greatest number of them never buy a thing.
I read around the..."
Steven, you are dead-on the target. I do a bit of on-line promos plus one personal appearance each month. I get as many sales from that one appearance than from the other 29 days on-line. My soon-to-be-famous quote is "The surest selling shelf space for any book is the author's hand." - William Sewell
Since my book came out three months ago I have given away exactly 26 books and have been very selective as to who those books go to: Newspapers, chambers of commerce, magazine editors, and a few family members. I'm still looking at the conversations but remain a little skeptical of KDP.
Understanding buying habits is the real key to being successful.
My book, Ujasiri goes free from 23-27, December. Does having my free days consecutively affect the response I get, as opposed to spreading it?
I'd change that - if you don't do too well (i.e. less than 5000 downloads) your rankings will not recover easily from 5 days of no sales. And the way KDP is now, you probably won't get 5000 in 5 days. It'll probably tail off on the 3rd day as your listings get lost in all the other free book promos.2 days is best.
I agree with DM. I had my book on a four-day giveaway this month and it came off rated 400,000. It had been 100,000 before the give away. Took a week to climb back to where it started. And only got 800 dl's.
I did 4 days and got over 9000 downloads, but they really dropped off on day 4. In my experience, 3 days would be ok.The theory should be that you get a bounce, there's an algorithm that delivers info on your book to folks who might enjoy it. So it shouldn't just be a few lost days that you can't recover from. , but the algorithm has allegedly changed. I saw a bump, but nothing like what I had expected. Still, a bump.
Steven what steps did you take to achieve 9000 dl's?
I sent an announcement to every one of the websites that announce such things. One of them would give you more prominence for fifty bucks, I think, and I paid the fifty.I assume you know those but I can dig them up if you want. I also hired a guy who designed a web campaign for me. That was cheaper than you would expect.I ran it every day for the four days. I think I spent sixty dollars a day on that.
Thanks Steven. I don't want to put you to any hassle but I honestly would be very interested to know what site you paid, and what the web campaign involved. Any information would be appreciated, and probably used on my next freebe :)
For what it's worth, Ardin, I got 7,500 downloads without spending a cent. I posted the giveaway on every freeby website I could found. There are a lot of them. I also posted on GR (there is a group for freebies) and on Facebook. However, I repeat that sales were disappointing except for immediately after the first two day giveaway last March. As a number of people have reported, amazon has changed its way of counting free downloads for its lists of top sellers. I think that's what made the difference and that the KDP Select ride is over.
Right, up till last spring I think a download counted as something like a sale, so if you had thousands of downloads, you were something like an amazon bestseller. Also, it was easier to get crazy numbers of downloads, because there was less competition. Someone I know reported 45k downloads followed by sales of 900/month. This created an unstoppable momentum. To say the least, nothing remotely like that happens anymore. (or at least not to me!)
I have 2 books in Kindle Select, but so far no results. But it's only been a week.
I think that without a giveaway you're unlikely to see any results. others may have a different view.
My March 2012 promo garnered about 15,000 downloads over two days and I had as many as 175 books sales per day in the following weeks. Then a few weeks after that the algorithm changes came and my book slipped into obscurity...I did a comparable 2-day promo (same book) just recently and - despite more work notifying sites - got less than 4000 downloads in 2 days. Sales have only slightly increased in the wake of it.
I read some where that amazon weights a sale for an Indie author at 1/10 of a sale for a Big six author. If that's true then you have to sell 10 books for every one of theirs. That kinda seems unfair to the indie author.
I'm pretty sure Amazon rates all sales equally, regardless of author. It's just that they take price into consideration. So a sale for $0.99 helps your ranking more than a free download, and a sale for $9.99 helps more than a sale for $0.99. If an indie author can make sales at $9.99, I think they would get up the charts just as fast as John Grisham & Co.
It may be that each book sold by a major publisher equals 10 books given away by an indie. Before, a free book counted something like a sale for purposes of the algorithm. Even though that helped us indies, it was rather misleading, and amazon customers were deluged with info about indie authors. Hence DM's massive sales in march. I really regret not getting in on that, but it probably was too good to have lasted.
Anne-Rae wrote: "Marian wrote: "Nikki wrote: "I am trying to promote mine elsewhere for a change--having the books reformatted for Nook, Smashwords etc...but I was trying to change my prices on Amazon KDP and it ha..."good for you--very weird stuff happening there...
Some great comments here, all stuff I wish I had known prior to publishing. I didn't even know about Goodreads until 5 months after I'd published my book. My big marketing push was botched but effective and could probably work even better now that I know more. I mailed out free hard copies of my book to beauty and nail salons across the states. These copies have since turned up everywhere and as they are physical they continue to advertise for me.
My mistake was not being patient enough and mailing to soon. My e-books weren't finished and I only had 1-2 blog posts at my website. Thus I didn't have a complete package to offer would be buyers who might have been interested. Still those free books out there keep bringing me new fans and spread the word.
I've also noticed that reviews are crucial, not so much the reviews of random readers but the reviews from book review bloggers. Every time they post a review of my book the sales go up, which in turn makes it easier to get more reviews and readers.
So at this point in time I'm skeptical of free downloads. Free no longer has the same appeal it once did. It seems to make more sense to put more effort into better writing and connecting with people who are interested in your work, than just throwing free copies to the masses.
Great content + people who want to read it = sales
Marc wrote: "Some great comments here, all stuff I wish I had known prior to publishing. I didn't even know about Goodreads until 5 months after I'd published my book. My big marketing push was botched but ef..."
thanks for your post--I agree wholeheartedly! I'm going to a physical marketing get-to-gether later on today and in the 1st of the year I plan to take my books around to metaphysical stores...
I posted a contest/giveaway for the paperback version of my books on my blog and got NO takers...very disappointing--now I'm doing a giveaway through Goodreads, AND I am offering the kindle version of both books for .99 on Amazon...I've posted this on several FB pages...we will see...
I've really learned a lot from this thread. I was in KDP Select at first but never did do a giveaway. I left so I could get on smashwords to see how that does. Still not convinced of the wonderfulness of the free giveaway but if I change my mind I see that there are other venues for that.
I took the leap to try Select for 3 months, and my 2 day promotion revealed over 600 downloads with an unexpected result:it got tied into the 'Shades of Grey' genre. (it's a comedy). I'm guessing this is going to affect the results for sometime to come...not sure how to correct this without doing a silly, cartoon-ish cover. (Or screaming COMEDY in a big headline across her chest, which I'm considering)
I'm in the KDP program, so I'll weigh in. I ran a 2 day free promotion about a month ago which resulted in 900+ downloads. However, sales afterward were consistent with the rate of sales beforehand. I have no way of knowing if any of the sales were a result of the short-term higher visibility or if they would have happened anyway. Also, I have not received any reviews as a result, though it has only been a little more than a month, and it's a middle grade fantasy, so I have a feeling that kids are even less inclined to review than adults ;)I am using the rest of my free days right now through the 27th. Even if sales and/or reviews don't result, I'm hoping that just getting it into kids' hands will generate additional interest. I know that success in the genre that I write in (children's fiction)is a slow burn. On tha bright side, that gives me time to continue work on the sequel ;)
Good luck to you all and Happy New Year!
I've done several KDP giveaways so far, and here's what I've found. Before Amazon changed their ratings algorithm, downloads from giveaways were counted as part of the normal sales rankings. Up to that point, doing a free giveaway was good idea, and the boost in rankings usually generated sales after the giveaway ended.
Once Amazon made the changes, free ebooks from the KDP select program no longer counted towards paid sales rankings. Once the change was made, very few sales are generated after the free giveaway ends.
Some other things to consider.
If you are going to spend the time to promote your free giveaway, to these sites and others like them to generate sales after the promo, this is a waste of time. Most of the visitors to these sites are mainly looking for free books.
If you are going to do this to get your book into as many hands as you can, in the hopes of getting some reviews and the word of mouth going, then the KDP select giveaway is an excellent way of doing that.
Since there so many authors doing free giveaways, some of the sites which used to promote them for free now charge, or require at least 4 or 5 good reviews. If you already have the reviews, then you're better off spending your time marketing and promoting your paid book.
Omar wrote: "I've done several KDP giveaways so far, and here's what I've found. Before Amazon changed their ratings algorithm, downloads from giveaways were counted as part of the normal sales rankings. Up to..."
Agreed. In my case, since my book is for kids, I guess I don't mind giving my book away for free if it gets it into kids' hands. If it helps to keep their interest alive in reading, then I'm happy.
But I do admit that I am concerned that all the free books really do devalue authors' work in general. I participate because, as I said, my book is for kids and I think it needs to be marketed differently than do adult books. But I think a lot of authors are subscribing to the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" school of thought. Not just ones with inferior books as the theory of "you get what you pay for" suggests. I have read some very good books for free, and I can, admittedly, be somewhat critical when it comes to books.
Elle Wrote: " I am concerned that all the free books really do devalue authors' work in general. "That is the problem, if the only way to get your book into hands is to give it away than your almost shooting yourself in the foot. Since most authors would admit that their time and money is worth something. Like Omar said putting your free day announcements on the website that offer them only helps those who are not interested in spending any money at all, just looking for a freebie. Unfortunately I don't know what the solution is.
Stephen wrote: "Elle Wrote: " I am concerned that all the free books really do devalue authors' work in general. "That is the problem, if the only way to get your book into hands is to give it away than your alm..."
When I visit another town I've taken to finding the public library and donating a paperback copy of my novel. The librarians seem delighted and I feel rather good also.
It costs me something, but I know they will be read rather than fossilise unseen among a host of collected freebees on the Kindle.
Stephen wrote: "Elle Wrote: " I am concerned that all the free books really do devalue authors' work in general. "That is the problem, if the only way to get your book into hands is to give it away than your alm..."
Yeah, I think we're on the same page. I wouldn't say giving it away is the only way to get it to readers, but it's probably faster. I think a solution would be if KDP free days went the way of the dinosaur, especially now that they don't help your sales rankings. You'd still have to contend with the 99 centers, but I think discriminating readers may be less likely to purchase those than ones that were free for a few days. That may level the playing field. Of course, we have no control over nixing the free day option, so it's a moot point, unfortunately.
I actually found that my book bounced notably, but not spectacularly, from the free days, even under the new algorithm, a few months ago, but I had to give away more than 9000 and spend money on advertising to do that. The effect lasted a couple months. For someone with a more definable genre and target audience than I have, it might have been possible to get some real traction and momentum from that. So we can't write this off entirely. A year ago, giving away 9000 books would have had a spectacular impact, but not now. Still, possibly useful.
Steven, I submit you don't whether it was the giveaway or the advertisement for the same that sold your book. If you have a good cover and a good book description that appeal to readers, then anyway you can get them before potential readers will sell your book. I'd advertise but don't know of any places to put ads that really reach readers. The best thing about giveaways is that they do reach some readers. However, these folks are usually neither buyers nor reviewers.
I've found advertising to be a complete waste. Name the last three commercials you've seen? We tune them out anymore, especially advertising that isn't extremely targeted. The book giveways on Goodreads have helped me, you're not out much as you are not giving away thousands of books. I really think that it's a mistake to giveaway books like KDP and others are doing.
It's a very small number of people that drive our tastes- what we read, eat, wear, and listen to. I think it's better to focus on trying to find those people than just using the shotgun approach (free books for all).
Let's also be honest, not all books are going to sell in large numbers. It's not a reflection on the quality of the content either. Some markets are smaller, the timing might not be right, or the book just might not have found the person who would have taken it to that next level.
So what's better? Contacting five people you think might have an interest, sending them free books, and getting feedback? Or giving away 10,000 free books and not hearing anything back? Catering to the masses is a mistake, start smaller and find the core group that really cares- this group will tell the masses what to think.
THE Group for Authors!
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On another note, what is a good benchmark for monthly book sales? What kinds of sales do people see each month? 1, 10, 50, 100, 500, more? I'm just tryying to set my expectations.